Carrier Model 25HPA5H36 & FV4BN005 Help

[6276Charles]

I live in Richmond, VA and have to replace my current heat pump system,
a Carrier installer recommended the Performance series with a variable speed coil, I know nothing about these 2 models, can anyone give some reliable info on the models I listed, I am replacing a Trane system that lasted almost 20 years, will this Carrier match be just as reliable? Thanks for any info.

[RyanHughes]

Carrier is a fine brand of equipment, and many brands have 10 year warranties on parts now. I wouldn't expect any equipment manufactured today to last 20 years (not to say there's no chance it would). You should compare installers rather than brand names first. Sometimes it isn't easy to do. Did you feel comfortable with this dealer? Had good references? Thorough inspection of existing equipment? etc... Start there and post back with any other questions. My neighbor has a similar unit and from what I can tell they have had no problems and it is very quiet and efficient.

[robinair]

In richmond VA thats a lot of tonnage , how big is your home ? did the company perform a ACCA aproved Heat load calculation to determine the tonnage and did they analize your duct work to make sure it is adeaquate to handle that system ? the Box means absolutly nuthin if these issues are not addressed first .

[dash]

I'd want the FE005, indoor unit Infinity ,with Infinity control/stat.

Factory 10 year parts and labor too.

[Todd S 2]

I live in Richmond, VA and have to replace my current heat pump system,
a Carrier installer recommended the Performance series with a variable speed coil, I know nothing about these 2 models, can anyone give some reliable info on the models I listed, I am replacing a Trane system that lasted almost 20 years, will this Carrier match be just as reliable? Thanks for any info.

The old Trane units were bullit proof. Most manufactures now are using the same Copeland scroll compressors. Carrier has a rebate that might make the Infinity series H/P a smart move. I'm surprised you were not given that as an alternate.

[6276Charles]

Thanks for the input, my home is a rancher 1800 sq. ft, with vaulted ceilings in the living room and master bedroom, builders grade windows with 3 large bay windows and cheap french doors that are drafty only one return in the hallway ceiling, 8 total rooms with 11 legs in ceiling as well coming off the trunk line in attic to feed the house. Original HVAC was a 3 Ton 10 seer XE1000, with a 2.5 Ton air handler in attic. That's the way it came, almost everyone has told me to increase the size of the return, currently is 14" x 30" and increase the trunk line which is supposedly sized for a 2 ton system, Heat was marginal in the winter, but the A/C was fine. Vepco bill was never reasonable. I do not want to put just any unit in, I'm not cherry picking brands, just trying to get an honest install, and I listen to the installers for which brands they recommend, they all use and prefer different manufacturers. I'm confused.

[dash]

In richmond VA thats a lot of tonnage , how big is your home ? did the company perform a ACCA aproved Heat load calculation to determine the tonnage and did they analize your duct work to make sure it is adeaquate to handle that system ? the Box means absolutly nuthin if these issues are not addressed first .

Three tons,1800 sq ft,sounds reasonable, but a load calc is always best.

[Pete3]

Purchasing a HVAC system is a lot like buying a car, boat, camper, etc. Many brand names, all perform well. At any point in time any brand can have manf. or engineering problems. Recently, case in point, Toyota. Do not base your purchase of equip. so much on brand of equip. Instead, base purchase on quality of installation. Hundreds of posts that tell you what standards to look for in HVAC companies.

[6276Charles]

Dash,
What is the difference between the air handler I listed and the Infinity one you recommended? Put it in layman terms, I am not HVAC literate at all.

Thanks, Charles

[dash]

It handles dehumidification using computer logic,based on many factors, best one on the market for dehum. ,in cooling.

It will also tell you the static (resistance to air flow)of the duct system,and warn you if it's too high for proper operation. So you'll know if the ducts system is right.

It has true sensing dirty filter detection,so as the filter gets dirty, it knows it all tells you,no guessing when to change the filter.

Very easy to use the stat., even in the programable mode,which can be turned on or offf as you wish. Our techs reccommend it to our clients, mostly retired population in this part of Florida. Seldom aa trip back to explain the stat operation.

Built diagnostics,for the tech, maybe a good tech doesn't need that, but it's there regardless of who shows up.

Yes the install,correct size,etc., are all crucial to to get a great system, I just think the featues and benefits are unmatched by Infinity.

If you go with the FV,insist on a Thermidistat from Carrier,to get close to the Infinity for cooling dehumidification of your indoor air.

[6276Charles]

Thanks, I will look into the Thermidistat as you said.

[tedkidd]

Hmmm. Dash maybe shouldn't have mentioned dehumidistat. Anything not infinity is not communicating. This has comfort, longevity and efficiency issues. It'll pay the few cents per day extra many times over to step up to infinity.

[aircooled53]

That Number is a match in the performance series..

[Airmechanical]

I wouldn't expect any equipment manufactured today to last 20 years

yes, but some of the new Trane system's come with 15 year warranty



.

[beenthere]

yes, but some of the new Trane system's come with 15 year warranty
.

Doesn't mean they will actually last for 15 years.

[beshvac]

The infinity control is the way to go,

Has any of the contractors actually done a load calculation? My company does load and duct calculations in the Richmond area if you are interested

[frozensolid]

Hmmm. Dash maybe shouldn't have mentioned dehumidistat. Anything not infinity is not communicating. This has comfort, longevity and efficiency issues. It'll pay the few cents per day extra many times over to step up to infinity.

The Infinity is a great machine, But the FV and the Carrier Edge (thermidistat) will handle de humidification just fine. Not like the Infinity but it works well. The system won't be communicating but the stat has has a communicating feature.

It is a great stat to use when you only have four wires at the existing stat. You only need two wires at the stat and it will communicate with the module mounted at the A/H.

[Airmechanical]

The infinity control is the way to go

when comparing the Carrier communicating controller with the Trane communicating controllers

there is no comparison, the Trane is much more versatile and user friendly



.

[aircooled53]

when comparing the Carrier communicating controller with the Trane communicating controllers

there is no comparison, the Trane is much more versatile and user friendly



.

Now that's funny... The Trane can out perform the Infinity, must be something in your water..And better look at the cost of a Trane vs Carrier....:payattention:

[Airmechanical]

Now that's funny... The Trane can out perform the Infinity, must be something in your water..And better look at the cost of a Trane vs Carrier....:payattention:

hey air it's been a long time

not long enough:bump:


go back and read, i said the Trane controller is better

and now that you mentioned it, so is the equipment, by far!



.

[tedkidd]

I Love that other mfrs are jumping on the communicating bandwagon.

I guess I'd like to read the trane/as operation specs to see how it works and what it does, but information is difficult to come by and since this is fairly new there is not a lot of experience out there (and the new Trane mod is expen$ive so it might be a while before people start to give operational feedback).

Blanket statements like "user friendly" are subjective, and saying Trane is more versatile is simply wrong.

Until AS comes out with communicating zoning, and proves it'll do what Infinity does, it doesn't stand up to the "versatile" comment on that feature alone. This calls your knowledge and any input you offer into question.

Are you truly looking at this openly or blinded by a self-serving bias? Sounds like you have some axe you are grinding.

(btw, a friend of mine owns a large supply house and sells American Standard (trane). So if they really measure up to Carrier, I'm thrilled! I'm paying attention to this and in my opinion they simply don't yet. Furthermore, going from 3 stage to Mod and jumping the price makes it that much harder to compete. Finally, the 3 stage communicating was barely out a year, so discontinuing a product that quickly is a bit alarming. Finally, Carrier's Infinity has been communicating since 2004, that's a long time to work out the bugs.)

[frozensolid]

In my opinion the Carrier is superior in every way. BTW where is that five ton Tax Credit Trane they have been promising?

[aircooled53]

hey air it's been a long time

not long enough:bump:


go back and read, i said the Trane controller is better

and now that you mentioned it, so is the equipment, by far!



.

Take another drink of your water, Air Mech... Trane is good equipment, but it ain't no Carrier Infinity...:oops:

[Airmechanical]

Take another drink of your water, Air Mech... Trane is good equipment, but it ain't no Carrier Infinity...:oops:

i have installed Trane communicating as well as infinity, have you?



.

[beshvac]

i have installed Trane communicating as well as infinity, have you?



.

How about being more specific, like was asked in a previous post-instead of all of us having to rely on your opinion.

[Airmechanical]

i have installed Trane communicating as well as infinity, have you?


How about being more specific, like was asked in a previous post-instead of all of us having to rely on your opinion.

sorry man

the Trane controller parameter set-up mode is much more user friendly than the infinity controller

the Trane controller screen is about 5 times easier to read than the infinity controller

the Trane controller allows low and/or high speed cfm modifications, the infintity controller does not

but don't worry, the infinity may be just as good or equal to the Rheem communicating system

however the Rheem has better safety controls and new microproccessor logic built into there boards, no contactors needed



.

[tedkidd]

Sounds pretty slick, got a link to manuals? Do you know if communicating zoning will know airflow, learn zone loss, and modulate dampers like carrier, and when it will be out?

[dash]

sorry man

the Trane controller parameter set-up mode is much more user friendly than the infinity controller

the Trane controller screen is about 5 times easier to read than the infinity controller

the Trane controller allows low and/or high speed cfm modifications, the infintity controller does not

but don't worry, the infinity may be just as good or equal to the Rheem communicating system

however the Rheem has better safety controls and new microproccessor logic built into there boards, no contactors needed




.

Infinity lets you chosse cfm per tom,which works on boths stages,what does Trane allow for cfms?

[Airmechanical]

Infinity lets you chosse cfm per tom,which works on boths stages,what does Trane allow for cfms?

Trane allows for the cfm's to be modified IN HI AND/OR LOW "AFTER" parameters have been established by communication



.

[dash]

Trane allows for the cfm's to be modified IN HI AND/OR LOW "AFTER" parameters have been established by communication



.

So how is Trane different or better/worse???

[tedkidd]

That sounds like slight modifications to airflow similar to "comfort" and "efficiency" settings on Infinity.

Doubt American Standard will allow significant deviation from what the equipment is designed for or they'd get shamokes frying heat exchangers & slugging compressors to deliver different temps at register.

Aren't installer and operator screw ups part of what communicating is meant to avoid?

Carrier has a 5 year head start, be great if AS is able to get close but sounding unlikely they will jump ahead. It's a pretty significant learning curve for the whole supply chain to absorb. And if nobody can direct us to information yet, I'm starting to lose my enthusiasm.

[Airmechanical]

That sounds like slight modifications to airflow similar to "comfort" and "efficiency" settings on Infinity.
no

Doubt American Standard will allow significant deviation from what the equipment is designed for or they'd get shamokes frying heat exchangers & slugging compressors to deliver different temps at register.
who said anything about significant deviation from design

Aren't installer and operator screw ups part of what communicating is meant to avoid?
well, you got that one correct

Carrier has a 5 year head start
what, did they just forget to develope their product

be great if AS is able to get close but sounding unlikely they will jump ahead.
ya, but Trane has got Carrier wooped, you keep mentioning AS

It's a pretty significant learning curve for the whole supply chain to absorb.
WTF are you talking about?

And if nobody can direct us to information yet, I'm starting to lose my enthusiasm.
exactly what information can you not get



.

[tedkidd]

American Standard IS Trane, don't you realize that? And you say that Trane allows airflow adjustment, and this makes it better than Infinity, but you don't know that Infinity allows this control - so you don't know what you are even comparing.

Then you go on to say things like wooped without ANY support, as if we will simply take your word for it? The more you write the less credible you are.

I was hoping someone could help us understand how AS/TRANE equipment fits in the communicating arena, and was hoping you might be qualified to do that, but clearly I was mistaken. Another guy that is all talk and no substance.

And as far as learning curve, I suspect it'll be years before you understand what I'm talking about.

[Airmechanical]

American Standard IS Trane, don't you realize that?
kidd, i have repaired more A/S's than you have probably seen

And you say that Trane allows airflow adjustment, and this makes it better than Infinity
it's already been explained, quit being stupid about it

but you don't know that Infinity allows this control - so you don't know what you are even comparing
again, i have installed both, apparently you have not

Then you go on to say things like wooped without ANY support, as if we will simply take your word for it? The more you write the less credible you are.
and this makes you think your smart, I was hoping someone could help us understand how AS/TRANE equipment fits in the communicating arena
sorry but it looks like, can't explain 1 +1 to you

and was hoping you might be qualified to do that, but clearly I was mistaken. Another guy that is all talk and no substance.
what an A-hole

And as far as learning curve, I suspect it'll be years before you understand what I'm talking about.
son, i will never understand you, and after seeing the level of your intellegence, i don't want to understand

you can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him drink

your the horse, your at the water, now drink it boy!



.

[tedkidd]

Getting information about this equipment - Carrier or American Standard - is difficult at best. Most people at the supply houses know the equipment heats and cools.

There are guys here that understand Infinity better than most in the industry. I understand communicating better than the average joe, but these guys are experts. I don't consider myself in their league. Unfortunately they don't seem to have enough experience with AS to know where and when that unit might be a better fit for the customer.

I would like to find someone here that knows these units better than the guys at the supply houses. Call me what names you want, I'm a bit autistic and my abruptness is not from ego, so I'm actually happy because I have your attention.

You claim the controller is more viewable. Show us. You claim airflow adjustment is important and better than Infinity, Why? There are a lot of unsubstantiated statements that you might be able to substantiate, why haven't you?

Are you really qualified to be the AS expert? If you can back up your claims we can learn what this new equipment can and can't do. I'm surely not the only one interested. Can you provide specs, install, etc?

This horse's ass is at the water, let's see what ya got.

[dash]

Getting information about this equipment - Carrier or American Standard - is difficult at best. Most people at the supply houses know the equipment heats and cools.

There are guys here that understand Infinity better than most in the industry. I understand communicating better than the average joe, but these guys are experts. I don't consider myself in their league. Unfortunately they don't seem to have enough experience with AS to know where and when that unit might be a better fit for the customer.

I would like to find someone here that knows these units better than the guys at the supply houses. Call me what names you want, I'm a bit autistic and my abruptness is not from ego, so I'm actually happy because I have your attention.

You claim the controller is more viewable. Show us. You claim airflow adjustment is important and better than Infinity, Why? There are a lot of unsubstantiated statements that you might be able to substantiate, why haven't you?

Are you really qualified to be the AS expert? If you can back up your claims we can learn what this new equipment can and can't do. I'm surely not the only one interested. Can you provide specs, install, etc?

This horse's ass is at the water, let's see what ya got.

I agree, tell us something meaningful.

I do know that Trane guys in our area `our jumping ship,not sure why.

[aircooled53]

He always runs his mouth, I would agree that Trane has some work to do before they compare to Infinity, and No I'm not expert on Trane anymore, but I have worked on a few..
Carrier Infinity is just a great product....

[frozensolid]

Carrier Infinity is just a great product....

This is true.

Those who are second in the market always claim to be better than those who are copying to keep up. The Infinity is nothing less than amazing.

[bartdude]

This thread sure got hijacked :D

Might look into the HPA6 as well. Some higher efficiency's as well as 2 stage. Actually gets some better efficiencies than the Infinity due to its larger coil surface area.

[6276Charles]

This thread sure got hijacked :D

Might look into the HPA6 as well. Some higher efficiency's as well as 2 stage. Actually gets some better efficiencies than the Infinity due to its larger coil surface area.

BartDude,

I talked to a certified dealer/rep today about the HPA6, there appears to be some rebate money from carrier on this particular unit. Sorry for starting a beef about AS/Trane & Carrier, hope everyone calms down. :argue:

[davo]

Air,
I have read your posts for a while, and I thought you were above name calling.

I install Carrier Infinities all the time.
I have had to set up more Trane communicating equipment then I can count because the installing dealer could not do it properly.
I have installed several Trane communicating systems myself.

I like the Infinity much more.

I disagree that set up is easier with Trane.
I disagree the Trane controller is easier to see.
I disagree that the Trane controller is easier to use.
I have seen the new Infinity control, and it is very, very nice.
I hope they release it soon.

You forget to mention the other qualities of Infnity.
The zone control system is superior to Trane's.
The Remote Access ability.
The ability to set up low stage operation if desired, for generator operation.
The ability to have the communicating control and fan coil and still use a standard single or two stage stage a/c or heat pump, even another brand.
Communicating ability in several different price ranges, to meet more owners pocket book.

You keep saying that you can adjust the CFM with Trane in Low and High Speed.
Infinity does not need this function as it contiualy modulates the fan anywhere from 225cfm/ton to 400cfm/ton, in both high and low stage, to allow the humidity setting and temperature setting arive at their set points at the same point in time. You don't have to set it, but you can change the fan cfm/speed profiles and logic in both high and low stages for de-humidification modes, fan continuous mode, and heating modes.
There is even a condensate drain parameter, that will shut down the fan for 6-10 minutes after the compressor shuts off, to allow water to drain from the coil in the "ON" mode.
Lets not forget the "comfort heat mode" for heat pumps, that deliver warmer air in the heat mode.
High speed latching for cooling and heating (heat pump) modes.

Infinity uses a alogrythm you may not quite understand.
I can make the Infinity work properly, with only two conductors to the outdoor unit.
As far as safety controls, Infinity is great.
It has every type of safety control imaginable.
You may not understand how some of them are acheived.
So you are saying it is better to have to replace a whole board then a contactor? Which one will you be more likely to have on the truck?

Both the Trane Carrier are great equipment, and to say anything different is just silly.

Neither compare in quality or technology to Mitsubishi, Daikin or Toshiba.
Carrier has purchased 25% of Toshiba's HVAC division, and they have high quality Inverter driven equipment too.
Carrier will be bringing that technology to the USA.

Carrier is supposed to release a new version of Infinity outdoor unit this summer, I am guessing it will use the copeland digital scroll.
We will see if they do. Then Trane will be behind again.

They call themselves Trane, but they never say what part.
We all know that they are the caboose!:bump:

Once you have been around a while, you understand that these things go in cycles.
One company has the cutting edge, then another, then another, and it starts all over again.