Pay rate

[ckone180]

Maybe I am wrong but the test in N.C. for refrigeration license is 6 1/2 hours. It is a difficult test, but the pay in this area is pitiful. I have 5 yrs experience and most companies say they will hire me, but for 14-15 dollars per hour. Does the HVAC side pay more than the Refrigeration side?

[too tall terry]

i guess so,cause i make abit more than that and i dont do any refrigeration....good luck

[self employed 1]

go to chicago area and good techs are earning 25-35 per hour.

[ckone180]

Thank you very much. All I can figure is that people are wanted in the refrigeration side, but the money is not there. They don't seem to trust anyone, they want to hire you low at first then they claim they will raise the salary. I don't seem to understand why? What is the logic to that?

[Pioneer]

The logic to that is that everyone who manages to pass a simple CFC handlers certification thinks they are service techs. hiring at a low rate gives the employer a week or two to determine if the service tech he just hire can even find the TXV much less replace it.
It is completely exceptable for employers to give you a SHORT trial period.
The bottom line is if you start at 20.00 hr you had better be bringing in more then 60.00 hr and keeping call-backs to a minimum.
If you can do that in your first 2 weeks you should have no trouble making an employer feel he/she has made the right decision hiring you and give you the money you deserve. If you think the employer is just looking for something for nothing then ask if your pay increase can be retroactive once you finish the trial.

[sfry]

just got a job in charlotte, nc i have only residential experience, all the residential places that offered me something was for at least a bit more than what you posted. the commercial places, although no real offers where going to pay less, but i have no commercial experience, and i have no clue as to refrigeration rates.

pioneer, i like that idea about retro pay when you prove yourself.

[ckone180]

For the time being I cannot take a pay cut in order to satisfy someone that what I tell them is the truth. If they do not trust me, hw do they expect me to trust them. I know what you are going to say, but, in the probationary period, if they are not happy with my productivity they have the right to let me go, with or without notice.

[pabull]

In NC, which is a right to work state, They can let you go at anytime probation period or not. You can go to Labor board
but employers can find ways to make their claim stick. Best bet here is go w/ bigger more established contractors.
And as for retroactive pay increase,GOOD LUCK. Ive never heard of anyone getting that kind of deal. Employment at will is in the fine print of every appliation you fill out here. :)

[Spidy]

They always say talk is cheap ,show me.Then we will move your pay up.But guess what, that day never happens and we all know it.There will always be a reason not to,or worse they will tell you they never said that.


Bottom line get what you want to start or you'll never get it.Start the guy at what he deserves and if he cant produce get rid of him.

Companies that offer that usally are always looking for techs, I wonder why?

[framehvac]

I have worked in nc there is alot of work there but the good pay is hard to find but you can do it..

[Pioneer]

Other then a giant conspiracy that you have never seen the pay increase that you were offered if you were the man they were looking for. Could it be that you are one of those super techs in the interview that misdiagnose 15 work orders in the first week?
Not to say that you are anything less then knowledgeable, but there are hundreds of people out there that represent themselves as a "super Tech." and when it comes down to profitability fall way short.
Hiring a tech. at $20.00 and then having to fire him in two weeks is a waste of my time, I would have no problems hiring a Tech for 17.00 hr for a two week trial and making the three dollars per hour retroactive if they are the super Tech. they say they are. That allows for the option of keeping them on at a more realistic rate if they prove to be an average Tech.

[Spidy]

See, I am just looking at it from the other side,the potential employee side.You can look at it this way,if a true "super tech" came through and knew he was worth xx dollars and you offered less,He may feel he is getting low-balled and turn it down and you lost a great tech?Besides when someone claims to no everything they usaly know nothing.


Could it be that you are one of those owners that only cares about profit?See ,there I go, I labeled you unfairly I am sorry.

[Edited by Spidy on 05-16-2004 at 11:50 PM]

[hvac45]

I happened to hire a super tech 6 months ago, he wanted 20, I offerred him 18 for 30 days, if he could do what he said I would make it retro, after 15 days I called him in and gave him 22, plus a bonus. I haven't had the priveledge to work with his talent and attitude in years. Now if I could find one more.

[no8no3]

Why should a man have to prove himself time after time? And cost himself 80 bucks a week untill you decide he's worth it? Is this a common practice where you are? I would have thought references would have been enough...Am i wrong? Here in the mid-south nothing is retro...You get what you get and have to threaten to leave to get more.

[Pioneer]

Certainly an instructer should understand that wages vary accross the country based on supply and demand as well as cost of living.
Your comment may be true in St. louise but make you look a bit foolish in VA.
a gal of premium gas is under $2.00 here, average 2,000sq home 100,000 Groceries are reasonable.
You should try and get out more.
NO8NO3 until you have proven yourself to me, you are still unproven, why would you think my company standards are the same as the last company you worked for?

[Edited by Pioneer on 05-17-2004 at 07:26 AM]

[no8no3]

Pioneer....I'm wondering if your standards are a bit too high....Not being critical here, but i can talk to a guy for 30 minutes and tell if he knows anything, and put the laziest guy we have with him to see if he can get anything accomplished in a days time. I have 30 years in the trade, and often have worked for people a LOT less knowledgable than me. Should i withhold my experience from them? Should i work only to the level of pay offered? Should i then after receiving a raise, make my work ethic retroactive?

If your going to cut anything on the front end, It should be benefits, truck, uniforms, days off, etc... That way, the guy can at least make a living while waiting for your decision....Just a thought...

[Pioneer]

How did it become my responsibility to make sure an applicant can make a living, I'm not in business to supply each wanna-be tech in town with 2 weeks of good pay.
I am looking to give good pay to the right person for a long term.
It’s great that you have the ability to mystically know how good a tech. is in one day; I require a little more time.
The fact is that if the Tech. can do what he says in the interview he/she will get the retroactive pay, if they can't then they have either mislead me or over estimated themselves at which time I have to determine what if anything they are worth to me.
The only way the tech. is not making a living is if one of these occur.
Why do I need to accept the risk of their overestimation?
Granted there are cases where they may have enough references that will substantiate their greatness for me to offer the top rate when they apply, but in most cases I want to see it for myself.

[sfry]

does anyone use pre employment tests? out fo the 8 interviews i recentely had, 5 of 8 had tests, another guy brought be up on a roof of one of his acounts, just to show me what he works on. a few jobs where commercial, and i only have residential experince. on commmercial guy said i don't expect you to do good, but you don't claim to know commercial either so it is ok. some tests where good, another was a lot of reading comprehention, and you didn't always know what was being asked. NOT ONE TEST WAS HANDS ONE. did not seem to get the we will see what you can do after a month and give you more money thing though. i am part for and part against it. i don't like to feel like i am in a microscope, and don't like supervisors watching over me knowing they are judgeing every move i make. at the same time i have met some good bullshipers that sound convincing. so i guess it comes down to whether you like the place that is offering you a position and what they want you to do. push comes to shove you can take it or leave it and if you are a good tech then it is the companys loss not yours if they meet you hiring expectations, not yours.

[Pioneer]

"Don't mess with me,” you say. We were talking about service tech. pay and you refer to HVAC Mechanic pay. What’s your point? HVAC Mechanic make less then the garbage truck driver to. SO!
Mechanic here is a "Tin Knocker" no offence to those who do this, but a service Tech here makes about $20.00hr. for a top-notch residential/light commercial person, In fact I interviewed with a very good Tech. today and the pay I offered was right in line with what he was expecting.
I have been running this business since 1990 and I can't imagine how I've gotten by up to know without your %tile information.
You must be the only guy in the world that thinks plumbers in Chicago make the same as plumbers in Lumberton, NC.

[framehvac]

You shound not have to prove you self to any one but you self.The hourly pay system is all wrong hvac45 & I thank dash pay buy the job if you don't work then there is no money in it for you if you work then you will love this system.Imtd I don"t know any hvac mechanic or ceiling tile installer that make 50,000 a year if so let me know where.I have talked to pioneer in privet he pays a good wage and sounds like his co. would be a good place to work.Pioneer a garbage truck driver no thanks a tin knocker yes I am but most tin knocker will become service techs then go on to own there own hvac co. just like you.You have to start some where

[no8no3]

Pioneer...I'm not trying to change your mind about the way you do your biz, And at 20 an hour it really makes no difference, the tech that would settle for that would of course agree to less to start. Rates of pay vary widely from place to place, our 2nd year apprentices make more than that. We've found that in order to keep the really good tech's we need to have a system in place, that rewards our tech's. We cannot accomplish this with automatic distrust from the start.

Your going to get the occasional crack head, and the guy's that just know the "big words" if you know what i mean, but such is the case with any company that hires beyond their immediate family. We simply ax the less than desirable ones, and move on.

A few years ago i took a job under similar circumstances, but told the employer up front, that i would take the job, but i would continue to keep my ear to the ground for something better, and if the money was not forthcomming, would have to leave. He agreed and the 4th week later i did just that. This was a good company with little to say bad about, but the fact that he waited that long to evaluate my skills just cemented my resolve to leave in a quicker fashion. I still get calls from the guy wanting to hire me back.

If he had come off the money, I'd probobly never left.

[Pioneer]

I can see why you would leave if he promised you something and never delivered, but if he told you upfront that you were being evaluated for 2 weeks at the end of which you would be given an addition $2.00 per hour, and the $2.00 would be retroactive from the day you start, would you have left before the 2 week trail was over? If so then you have not given your employer a fair trial.
You stand to loose nothing in this case unless you have misrepresented yourself; even then you are only out $160.00.
I feel that it takes about two weeks to evaluate an employee, sure you can give them a test to give you some idea of skills, but how about how they react with your customers when you are not there? Do they treat the employees at the supply houses you use with respect or do they come through the door barking demands?
Do they operate the vehicle with your company name on the sides in manures that potential customers will remember in a negative way?
There are a lot of things to consider when hiring someone new, I just don't feel I need to be the one to sacrifice while these considerations are being made.
After all if an applicant chooses not to accept the trial period they can always continue looking, if the do accept they usually are glad they did. (Speaking only for my company of course).

[Pioneer]

I don't know what information you are talking about; I am talking about hiring a service Tech.
Just as much a benefit to the hiree as the hirer.
I am looking for help to get more work done; he is looking for a means to support himself and family.
I really can't see why so many of you are afraid of a trial pay period as long as the agreed pay is retroactive, and the trial period is reasonably brief.

[sfry]

you all can go at it but i will add my 2 cent. was at a customers house yesterday, another guy was there he owns a small company started as plumbing and water treatment. had a lot of people asking for a good hvac co, so he started doing that also. he pays employees good. i work for the big place in town, overall pay sucks, nobody is happy with it, most are to chicken ship to do something about it. there are good techs, that make decent $, but for the area it could be a lot better. i looked into moving(west. ny to charlotte NC), first place i talked to said they could not pay me what i am making, put if i beat flat rate and bring in XX$$ i can make more. funny thing is flat rate based on $15 more an hour than where i am at know. ok cost of living is less. talk to a few other places, we will pay you anywhere from 8-14% more than making know, add about 10% to that for cost of living being cheaper. i say why the f am i still making what i am. but the bottom line is supply and demand. where i am, sunday paper 2 hvac postions adverticed is a lot, charlotte, min 10-15. huge difference. so when you all talk about $$$ alone it is not 100% fair. pay rate where i am is prob more on some web site, but there are at least as many techs as there are jobs. a place where there is a shortage of techs, name your price, regardless of any avg pay per hour website, even if it is the gov. Supply and demand dictates wages and prices for serv.

[Pioneer]

That is where this conversation started; I mentioned that wages differ with supply and demand and cost of living.

lmtd, my position is not defensive, I mean I live here, how could I possibly know more then you do about the pay scale in this area? Perhaps because you are assuming that the industry is structured the same throughout the country,
Perhaps you just like to argue a point no mater which side you happen to be on.

As far as my comment about a $20 tech. needing to bring in $60 of course this is an average, but maybe you are only capable of bringing in 200.00 a day.
You know, if you make so much money, yet can't see how you bring in more then a published hourly rate for each hour worked you are SAVERELY over paid.
Or do you sell parts for what they cost you?
You tell me, which is it, over paid or under educated.
See how a simple conversation with apposing views can go to pointless accusations. Why don't we just agree to disagree and drop it? I'll keep doing it my way, and good luck to you with yours.

[NedFlanders]

Originally posted by hvac45
I happened to hire a super tech 6 months ago, he wanted 20, I offerred him 18 for 30 days, if he could do what he said I would make it retro, after 15 days I called him in and gave him 22, plus a bonus. I haven't had the priveledge to work with his talent and attitude in years. Now if I could find one more.

The world needs more stand up employers like you

[ckone180]

I appreciate your replies, everyone. I just found that kind of job I was speaking about. My problem has been the fact that I am young. There are two types of people out there in the world, the one who work for a paycheck, and the ones that care about there job and have ambitions. It did not take long for me to realize that I am one of the latter types. If I tell you I know everything I would be lying, but, I try my best and put forth the effort. People who have been in the business for 40 years still make mistakes! You just have to figure out whether they will admit it. Retroactive pay is not guaranteed nor really implied, it is just expressed to get you on, therefore you have no time to find something else and end up settling with what you have.

Thank you for the person who stated get what you want at first or you'll never see it!

[ckone180]

If you do not agree with this issue then you must be living in a nice area. I am in Charlotte, NC. I desired to make 45,000 a year with great benefits. Anyone who will work for less than 20 an hour and pay the outrageous medical insurance is out of their league. They might as well go lie back down in bed, it isn't enough to get out of bed in the morning for!

[heating1cooling1]

Where in NC are you?

We are looking for residential & light commercial service technicians with commercial refrigeration experience.

Sen me your resume to heating1cooling1@aol.com

[R12rules]

Originally posted by no8no3
Why should a man have to prove himself time after time? And cost himself 80 bucks a week untill you decide he's worth it? Is this a common practice where you are? I would have thought references would have been enough...Am i wrong? Here in the mid-south nothing is retro...You get what you get and have to threaten to leave to get more.

I know "I'm preachin to the choir" by saying whenever you have to make threats in order to see any positive results... there is certainly something very wrong with management!


This thing with respect and wages is akin to the old Feudal system of Europe during The Dark Ages!


When I was contracting, I usually paid a man a fair wage.
There was this one contract though ... an "all inclusive" with a C-Store chain.
I probably never should have gotten involved. But I did. And with me, so did a couple of workers. This contract was brutal.
The money was poor and judging by what these two were worth to me, they were seriously underpaid.

But they were never threatened!
They were never called on the carpet!
They were never belittled! At least not by me.
They were treated with respect and dignity.


If I felt that my employer was demonstrating that same brand of dignity and respect for me today ...my present employer ... there is little I would withhold from my service for him.


As an industry, we need to revamp how we are charging our corperate customers. Our major chain markets for one thing.

To hell with the unions. If we're gonna have them as our reps, we may asw well ask Uncle Sam to step in and regulate wages.
Augh!!! May it never be!!!


No ... what I think we need is to hire some prostitutes to go to the bargaining table in our stead!
The major as well as the minor service contractors who are taking such a beating on market accounts ...they need someone who is savy with handling corperate business deals ... and coming out on top!!! (Pun not intended!)


Cause a whore would never stoop as low as some of the refrigeration service techs who are today working below poverty wages performing service work on super markets! All because they love thisline of work and their bosses happen to be lacking the skills to make a good deal.

[2seasons-employed]

Originally posted by lmtd

Originally posted by Pioneer

Hiring a tech. at $20.00 and then having to fire him in two weeks is a waste of my time, I would have no problems hiring a Tech for 17.00 hr for a two week trial and making the three dollars per hour retroactive if they are the super Tech. they say they are. That allows for the option of keeping them on at a more realistic rate if they prove to be an average Tech.


Hire at 20 and make 30 retroactive.

Why people feel apprentice wages are acceptable fore a service tech is beyond belief. I will Tell YOu WHy, its Simple , they dont know how to run a business, and share the profits!or Growth! they dont look at the tech as part of the company, they look at the tech as getting them through the busy season, and over hiring is a good example of that in the summertime! and techs need to stop, work9ing for billable time and starving throught the slow seasons>! help these hvac businesses share and keep their promises! and if you dont negotiate what youre worth and need in the beginning , everything else afterwards is a lie! theres also, alot of techs that learn a little and see the potential and lie to make what they've seen others capable of, and then threre's service managers, that puts the reins on a super tech, and a company that cant close a sale and hinders the tech's, and that is what is called , high turnover and poor business-minded owners, short sighted and greedy, uninterested in any fresh ideas they could profit from, if the tech helps the company grow it should be a mutual relationship! and or partnership, if it is onesided, and the tech could never be good enough at a higher wage , its because the company would rather make most of the profits during the busy times than, slow down and have to pay out of their own profits, because , some techs milk it and turn into gypsies and cheat and lie and make the company look bad, and help them lose customers and then leave the company, for the next company! and some techs leave because, they need a steady income year round , keep the billable, and the extra, and give me a straight 40 year round salary! or a percentage of the growth!

[Spidy]

"if the tech helps the company grow it should be a mutual relationship! and or partnership, if it is onesided, and the tech could never be good enough at a higher wage"


Explain this to me?For real cause I dont get it.


Am I suppose to be handing out buisness cards like crazy?Solicting new work for the company?Landing us the big contract and such?As a Service Tech?Doing this on my own time? Never had a Boss that would let me "go and try to land a contract" on company time!

Or,Does this mean Doing a good Job,being a professional having customers compliment you and recommend YOU to new customers and such?


Cause, I have done both and got Zilch in return!Then treated poorly and made to feel lucky they let me work there.


To me, A Service Tech's job is not landing new work or getting a new contract thats Sales and marketing.Now, when the oppurtunity is there a Tech should take it like " you did a good job, wanna check out my other 3 buildings" or selling a needed unit when your already on the job.


Why should I spend my free time just to keep myself working?

[wrightbrigade]

Spidy, that sounds pretty bitter. My boss asked that I hand out some cards when I'm not running a service call but it's going to be on the clock. Hey, thats not bad right? If the company is growing and you get a chance to become a supervisor or office manager it could be worth it right? Just curious cause you sound mad. tx

[Pioneer]

and those like it are the reason that our profession is slowly going down the toilet. How dare my employer expect me to do my job to the best of my ability? Why not try to improve your worth to your employer by showing him how valuable you are, not by holding him hostage for the most money you can get for the least amount of ability.
Yes I said "ability" if you posses the ability to be a good employee that includes doing what you can to insure the company is profitable. I hear so many people on the forum crying about not getting what there worth, when there attitude is exactly what detracts from there worth. If you owned your business, would you only do the least you could get away with when serving your customers, or would you provide a service that few other do with a smile on your face and a professional attitude thereby strengthening your company reputation so you can make more money?
I have a service tech that has been with me now for about 7 months, great guy, customers love him, and even though side work is not forbidden in my company he considers it a conflict of interest. He genuinely cares about the success of my business and that makes me realize his value. Not only is this good for him but it can be good for fellow employees as well, he is currently at the top of our pay scale for his job, and has been given a key man status with benefits that are not offered to all employees but he continues to exhibit above average ability which will soon prompt me to increase the ceiling on our Tech. pay scale giving other techs the opportunity to make more money.
Be a part of something besides your own self-indulgence.
The big picture has been brought to you by Pioneer :D

[wrightbrigade]

Pioneer sounds like you answered his question! We all need to be as valuable and professional as possible. The bitter people need to get of it or get out. Like you said your better Techs are better paid and their benifits are also better and you give them status. If it's not possible to change that attitude problem a career change is definatley due.

[stockfleth]

just for information sake, be carefull believing or quoting those wage statistics you find on the computer. 'Salary.com' says that in our town average level 3 hvac mechanics make 47,899 a year....that would actually be the very high end of an employed tenured career. they give over 53 thou as the high end. (They are high I think). Another information source gives the average home price as being 150 thou, you cant touch a shack with a leaking roof for less than 195 thou here. Not that I think it is a bad thing to look at these sites and get an idea, but it is only that, an idea. You really need to talk to real residents to get an accurate picture of actual wage vs. cost of living. I know that in my area a really good tech, that is loyal and steady, can only expect to make 26 an hour from a loyal and generous employer with some benies. A hard working loyal, knowledgable installer can consider himself lucky to make 21 an hour, that only translates to just under 44 thou a year on my calculator