Slolar powered AC and Heat Pump

[Darek]

Lennox came out with solar powered AC and Heat pump. It will provide electricity to the house as well. 30% tax credit without cap. :couch:Opinions?

[above-par]

personally i think its a joke all it powers is the outdoor fan moter

[Darek]

personally i think its a joke all it powers is the outdoor fan moter

It powers whole house as well.

[Kevin O'Neill]

The new version allows up to (15) 200 watt panels. That is 3KW.

It will power the heat pump up to 3 ton. It also powers the house when the heat pump is off. It is supposed to run the meter backwards when your house is not using power and the sun is out.

Not cheap, even with the tax credits.

The 30% uncapped tax credit applies to the solar portion only, equipment, materials and labor.

The heat pump part has a 30% tax credit capped at $1,500.00.

[skippedover]

I'd hire an electrician to size the PV panels. Where does that leave Lennox? I see this as a back door attempt to counter the Bryant/Carrier geothermal systems. The electricity component of a heating system (other than air-to-air heat pumps) is a small part of the energy usage. Geothermal gets rid of the major component, the creation of Btu's. Add a properly sized PV system to a geo and you've got a good system methinks. PV to fossil fuel doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Lennox has been out there before with the Pulse furnaces, all-in-one heating systems with domestic hot water. Unfortunately they all met an untimely death. I think they'd be better off perfecting the fossil fuel side with a good system rather than trying to beat the tax man with questionably innovative systems. JMO.

[Darek]

I'd hire an electrician to size the PV panels. Where does that leave Lennox? I see this as a back door attempt to counter the Bryant/Carrier geothermal systems. The electricity component of a heating system (other than air-to-air heat pumps) is a small part of the energy usage. Geothermal gets rid of the major component, the creation of Btu's. Add a properly sized PV system to a geo and you've got a good system methinks. PV to fossil fuel doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Lennox has been out there before with the Pulse furnaces, all-in-one heating systems with domestic hot water. Unfortunately they all met an untimely death. I think they'd be better off perfecting the fossil fuel side with a good system rather than trying to beat the tax man with questionably innovative systems. JMO.
No disrespect. But, Looks like you don't have an open mind and totaly loyal to carrier, and sold to geo t, not all areas can use GEO. It has been now for a while and in Colorado I hardly see anyone doing it. Wonder why? Must be because it is Carrier LOL. Technologies change and constantly new are coming out, not an attempt to screw someone, but if it does so be it. What happen to 8 track? DVD now Blue ray, on and on, cars dual fuel.

[pacnw]

I'd hire an electrician to size the PV panels. Where does that leave Lennox? I see this as a back door attempt to counter the Bryant/Carrier geothermal systems. The electricity component of a heating system (other than air-to-air heat pumps) is a small part of the energy usage. Geothermal gets rid of the major component, the creation of Btu's. Add a properly sized PV system to a geo and you've got a good system methinks. PV to fossil fuel doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Lennox has been out there before with the Pulse(I think you mean polaris) furnaces, all-in-one heating systems with domestic hot water. Unfortunately they all met an untimely death. I think they'd be better off perfecting the fossil fuel side with a good system rather than trying to beat the tax man with questionably innovative systems. JMO.

nothing wrong with the pulse furnace, but more advanced for its time and a different operating process than others.

[amd]

Using PV to power hvac equipment is a joke.

Most of the runtime in heating mode occurs when strong sunlight isn't beating down on the panels.

It would cost ten of thousands of dollars to install a system capable of providing enough energy to run a heatpump, excluding backup (without electric back) That kind of money would be much better spent on solar thermal heating (domestic hot water) or a ground source heatpump which provides five units of heat for every unit of electricity consumed.

Small 1-2kw PV systems generate very little electricity (< 10 kwh per day) and the return on investment is horrendous compared to implementing basic energy efficiency measures. (reducing heat loss/gain to begin with and installing efficient conventional hvac equipment)

PV is great for powering lighting, electronics, and refrigeration. For large loads forget it.

[beenthere]

Lennox came out with solar powered AC and Heat pump. It will provide electricity to the house as well. 30% tax credit without cap. :couch:Opinions?


Its for the niche markets. Won't be a big seller, and will be too expensive for most customers, for many many years to come.

[Kevin O'Neill]

You can buy the panels separately. Each panel has its own synchronous inverter. You can tie up to 15 together. Might be nice to power a refrigerator when the power goes out after a hurricane. Assuming the panels don't get blown away. :-)

[amd]

No disrespect. But, Looks like you don't have an open mind and totaly loyal to carrier, and sold to geo t, not all areas can use GEO. It has been now for a while and in Colorado I hardly see anyone doing it. Wonder why? Must be because it is Carrier LOL. Technologies change and constantly new are coming out, not an attempt to screw someone, but if it does so be it. What happen to 8 track? DVD now Blue ray, on and on, cars dual fuel.


Someone's been reading too much Lennox marketing "literature".

I suppose I'm not open towards "green" snake oil sales pitches - that's probably a good thing.

[acg]

The Lennox solar kit only produces 190 watts on a good sunny day. Its expensive to install solar power for your home , but I hear theres a device comeing out this year thats installed on new or existing systems that helps out 350 to around a 1000 watts
at a very low cost.

[leander311]

CIGS (thin film) technology should make solar cost-competitive with traditional means of generation in the next 10 years or so, it is really a fantastic innovation.

So basically Lennox is adding a grid-tie 3kV PV system to its product offering? Excellent. Agree, when I had first heard of this concept marketed a few years ago only towards powering the condenser fan (non grid-tie), I thought it was pretty lousy, too. But as described above, it doesn't sound any different than traditional grid-tie systems, except that it comes in thru the HVAC circuit instead of via meter.

Actually, I'm curious how local power companies will allow this, as most require a very specific transfer switch arrangement near the meter base to ensure the safety of their line workers during an outage.

[Darek]

CIGS (thin film) technology should make solar cost-competitive with traditional means of generation in the next 10 years or so, it is really a fantastic innovation.

So basically Lennox is adding a grid-tie 3kV PV system to its product offering? Excellent. Agree, when I had first heard of this concept marketed a few years ago only towards powering the condenser fan (non grid-tie), I thought it was pretty lousy, too. But as described above, it doesn't sound any different than traditional grid-tie systems, except that it comes in thru the HVAC circuit instead of via meter.

Actually, I'm curious how local power companies will allow this, as most require a very specific transfer switch arrangement near the meter base to ensure the safety of their line workers during an outage.
Everything supposed to be inside the condenser. I allready saw the inside of the condnser, nothing scary. System has power outage automatic disconnect.
Pannels provide AC voltage instead DC. They provide I belive 15AMP circuit. You don't have to buy the pannels, but will have an option to install them later, one at the time as your finances permit, expanding up to 15 of them.
When, your system is not running you produce electricity for the credit. When temp in a house is saticfide your system is not running, you continue production. Myself, I am very enctious to see how much it will actually cost. But, I love the concept.

[Darek]

The Lennox solar kit only produces 190 watts on a good sunny day. Its expensive to install solar power for your home , but I hear theres a device comeing out this year thats installed on new or existing systems that helps out 350 to around a 1000 watts
at a very low cost.
When it comes out, I would love to hear more about it. Send me an e-mail, when it does, please.

[Darek]

The Lennox solar kit only produces 190 watts on a good sunny day. Its expensive to install solar power for your home , but I hear theres a device comeing out this year thats installed on new or existing systems that helps out 350 to around a 1000 watts
at a very low cost.

By the way, 190 watts per panel X 15.

[jeff520]

One manufacturer of the small inverters for use one per panel is Enphase ( www.enphaseenergy.com ). I have twentyone 170 Watt PV panels on my roof in Tucson and have never seen more than 3.3KW output from them and 24KWh on a good day.

Believe me, Tucson is the place to be if you want lots of sunshine. The DC wattage of a panel is measured in the test lab at specific conditions of radiation and temperature, and so far in my experience (about 18 months) we have never reached quite that level of solar radiation. Between conversion and distribution losses you will probably only see between 90% and 95% of your DC wattage actually delivered as AC to your distribution panel.

Also, forget it as far as making power for you if the grid goes out. Grid tied inverters are designed to switch themselves off if the grid goes away. This is a safety measure so that the PV system does not supply power to a power line that the utility has put off line for maintenance purposes.

For a bunch more money you can have your panels charge a local battery and then make your own AC independent of the grid but it is a lot easier to simply let your meter run backwards and have the utility "store" the extra power.

Here is a link to my systems real time performance: http://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/tL4K292

[Darek]

One manufacturer of the small inverters for use one per panel is Enphase ( www.enphaseenergy.com ). I have twentyone 170 Watt PV panels on my roof in Tucson and have never seen more than 3.3KW output from them and 24KWh on a good day.

Believe me, Tucson is the place to be if you want lots of sunshine. The DC wattage of a panel is measured in the test lab at specific conditions of radiation and temperature, and so far in my experience (about 18 months) we have never reached quite that level of solar radiation. Between conversion and distribution losses you will probably only see between 90% and 95% of your DC wattage actually delivered as AC to your distribution panel.

Also, forget it as far as making power for you if the grid goes out. Grid tied inverters are designed to switch themselves off if the grid goes away. This is a safety measure so that the PV system does not supply power to a power line that the utility has put off line for maintenance purposes.

For a bunch more money you can have your panels charge a local battery and then make your own AC independent of the grid but it is a lot easier to simply let your meter run backwards and have the utility "store" the extra power.

Here is a link to my systems real time performance: http://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/tL4K292
Nice!!!.
I am in Colorado, higher elevation, more radiation, cooler temps. The panels are 200W AC, I don't know what is the deration factor yet. But, You could get 3kw from 15 panels. What I like about it is, each panel has its own enverter.
When I studied about grid tie and of grid is that inverters are major cost. Proper wire sizing, lenght could be another isue.

[jeff520]

Considering just inverter cost,the micro inverters are less expensive as long as you plan for about fifteen panels or less. With twenty one panels I would have saved a little money by having a single large inverter but would have lost some efficiency because of non optimal maximum power point tracking, the ability to expand in small increments, the diagnostic possibilities, and the inherent redundancy.

Guess I am an Enphase fan!

[Darek]

Considering just inverter cost,the micro inverters are less expensive as long as you plan for about fifteen panels or less. With twenty one panels I would have saved a little money by having a single large inverter but would have lost some efficiency because of non optimal maximum power point tracking, the ability to expand in small increments, the diagnostic possibilities, and the inherent redundancy.

Guess I am an Enphase fan!
Thank You for sharing this. Very good information. I am becaming their fan, too.