Low side liquid charging devices

[dave1234]

I just recently picked up a Imperial Kwic Charge low side liquid charging device. I was under the impression that these flash the liquid to a gas to allow worry free low side liquid charging. It definatley seems to restrict it but it certainly does no flash it all to a vapor, it still continually feeds liquid even through the device. Whats the point in using one if it still allows liquid to enter the line?Was I just misunderstanding something, I know im using it correctly. Just looking for anyone elses thoughts or comments.

[jpsmith1cm]

How do you KNOW there is liquid reaching the system?

I use mine pretty frequently and have not had a problem

[Grayline]

The kwik charge is for Metering liquid refrigerant into system not (boiling off) or changing into vapor .Most techs put it on gauges but it is intended for use on inverted drum of refrigerant.it Meters in liquid slowly to safely charge a running system
:callpro:

[dave1234]

First thing I did was try it with the hose end open (deminimus release) just to see it work- I got liquid out every time. Also when low side charging the suction service valve begins frosting up- as in its taking liquid. The giving example is R22 A/C app. So if it where working correctley I should have 100% vapor after the device? That was the impression that I got. I know "they" say just throttling the low side on your manifold will accomplish the same thing, but if I have to charge a large amount while the systems running I thought it would be sweet to be able to just let the low side rip wide open while charging liquid through kwic charge and tend to other things you know what I mean.

[Grayline]

if you hook inline thru another set of gauges you'll see that it acts like a regulator of sorts .Normally while liquid charging you can actually blow 60 PSIG worth of liquid into a system but the kwik charge throttles it back to a safer pressure.if you think about it the only way to change liquid refrigerant into a vapor form is to expand into an evaporative state by means of metering or restriction.

Hope this helps

[pdrake65]

First thing I did was try it with the hose end open (deminimus release) just to see it work- I got liquid out every time. Also when low side charging the suction service valve begins frosting up- as in its taking liquid. The giving example is R22 A/C app. So if it where working correctley I should have 100% vapor after the device? That was the impression that I got. I know "they" say just throttling the low side on your manifold will accomplish the same thing, but if I have to charge a large amount while the systems running I thought it would be sweet to be able to just let the low side rip wide open while charging liquid through kwic charge and tend to other things you know what I mean.

I gave up a while ago trying to figure out how it works. All I know is that it works and saves me headaches! :yes:

[jpsmith1cm]

If you are insistent upon ONLY having vapor reach the unit as you are charging, you are going to need to create a means to add heat to the liquid that the Kwik Charge flashes off.

Try putting a 50' roll of 1/4" copper in line after the Kwik charge. Run a fan on that to help evaporate the refrigerant.

[Phase Loss]

Has anyone ever really damaged a compressor by liquid charging? I do this all of the time without any special device. If I suspect "too much" liquid, I throttle down the valve manifold. I have let hundreds of pounds rip right into suction headers with no ill affects. Not even foam in the oil sight glass.

I do not know the cost of special charging devices. But I guess if I absolutely needed one, I would make one out of old cap tube from a pressure control and some 1/4" soft copper with flares.

[dave1234]

if you hook inline thru another set of gauges you'll see that it acts like a regulator of sorts .Normally while liquid charging you can actually blow 60 PSIG worth of liquid into a system but the kwik charge throttles it back to a safer pressure.if you think about it the only way to change liquid refrigerant into a vapor form is to expand into an evaporative state by means of metering or restriction.

Hope this helps

Yes it does! Actually thats kind of what I figured that was the intent the first time I tried it. It definatley restricts and lowers the pressure but I guess I was expecting it to "magically" ( :o ) turn it all to vapor. Just wanted to make sure it was working properly.

[dave1234]

If you are insistent upon ONLY having vapor reach the unit as you are charging, you are going to need to create a means to add heat to the liquid that the Kwik Charge flashes off.

Try putting a 50' roll of 1/4" copper in line after the Kwik charge. Run a fan on that to help evaporate the refrigerant.

My main concern is when charging directley into the suction service valve on the comp. So the little bit of liquid entering after the restriction device is ok because its a lower pressure liquid and damaging the compressor isnt a big concern. I was just under the impression that you could use the kwic charge, open the low side on the manifold wide open and let er rip without damage to the compressor- but then when it starts to frost up the service valve while charging in a AC app I thought huh.

[Phase Loss]

Dave1234.

Just curious, but why have you all of a sudden decided to purchase one of these devices?

How did you charge systems in the past?

And did your old style of charging systems damage a compressor in any way shape or form?

[dave1234]

Dave1234.

Just curious, but why have you all of a sudden decided to purchase one of these devices?

How did you charge systems in the past?

And did your old style of charging systems damage a compressor in any way shape or form?

Ive never damaged one from liquid charging into the suction line before. Id just throttle it in. I just picked when up because I quess I was under the idea you could just dump liquid in (now of course im talking about a large system that would take awhile). Obviously first Id charge as much liquid into the high side with the system off first. I firgued if I still had quite a bit of charging to do I could just open the gage and let the liquid safely go instead of slowly throttling it in so I would be free to do other things like clean up or what ever while toping off the charge. Does that make sense? I guess Im just always looking for ways to do quality work more effeciently.

[fxb80]

Has anyone ever really damaged a compressor by liquid charging?

I have. 2 1/2 ton residential unit. A truly OMG moment and it was completely my fault because I was in a hurry. The company did the right thing in response and replaced the unit for the homeowner.

Since then I either use a quick charger or throttle it in with the manifold by keeping the suction guage reading no more than 5 PSIG higher than the actual suction pressure.

[surenuff]

By throttling the gauge manifold, I have always just been able to get a feel for how much liquid/gas I am getting into the suction line/service port. I see no need for these devices. But I do know that was designed to be hooked up to the bottle, and the service hose hooked to it. That allows for a lot of flashing to take place before it gets out of the service gauges/hoses.

[jpsmith1cm]

My main concern is when charging directley into the suction service valve on the comp. So the little bit of liquid entering after the restriction device is ok because its a lower pressure liquid and damaging the compressor isnt a big concern. I was just under the impression that you could use the kwic charge, open the low side on the manifold wide open and let er rip without damage to the compressor- but then when it starts to frost up the service valve while charging in a AC app I thought huh.

Next question is 'what type of compressor?'

If it is an air cooled model, then you MUST monitor the charging at all times. I oopsed one of those years ago and never forgot it. :eek2:

If it is a refrigerant cooled model, you don't have to worry nearly as much. Think about it. Look at a cut-away drawing of the compressor. Those little droplets of liquid must first make it into the machine, through the entire motor and into the head where the valves are in order to cause any damage.

I've seen low temp compressors with massive floodback and a frostline to the valve plate and no damage was ever done to those machines.

They are very tough to damage by improper charging.

[dave1234]

Next question is 'what type of compressor?'

If it is an air cooled model, then you MUST monitor the charging at all times. I oopsed one of those years ago and never forgot it. :eek2:

If it is a refrigerant cooled model, you don't have to worry nearly as much. Think about it. Look at a cut-away drawing of the compressor. Those little droplets of liquid must first make it into the machine, through the entire motor and into the head where the valves are in order to cause any damage.

I've seen low temp compressors with massive floodback and a frostline to the valve plate and no damage was ever done to those machines.

They are very tough to damage by improper charging.

I see what your saying. And I believe most all recips are suction gas cooled. What do you think is more susceptible to failure do to slugging- a can or semi-hermetic. I know scrolls can handle it well. In fact I went to an Emerson/Copeland seminar in which the rep "challenged" us to wreck a scroll from slugging liquid. Bold statment. See some rotarys in mini-splits and some other stuff. Seen screws but never worked on one.

[jpsmith1cm]

A hermetic, recip compressor is refrigerant cooled.

It's a draw.

Rotarys are a different animal.

[cold spell]

I've seen low temp compressors with massive floodback and a frostline to the valve plate

We call those panda bears round here. :couch:

[craig1]

I see what your saying. And I believe most all recips are suction gas cooled. What do you think is more susceptible to failure do to slugging- a can or semi-hermetic. I know scrolls can handle it well. In fact I went to an Emerson/Copeland seminar in which the rep "challenged" us to wreck a scroll from slugging liquid. Bold statment. See some rotarys in mini-splits and some other stuff.

All hermetic recips are refrigerant cooled. Some semi-hermetics are refrigerant cooled, like the Copeland Discus. Some are refrigerant cooled, like the Copeland K and RA series.


Scrolls are pretty much invincible to direct damage from refrigerant. They are still susceptible to oil washout from long term flooding.

Rotaries are EXTREMELY sensitive to floodback. The suction line is piped directly into the compression chamber and the discharge gas goes into the can. Exactly the opposite of a recip or scroll semihermetic. This is why almost all rotaries come with a built in suction accumulator.

[dangpgt97]

We call those panda bears round here. :couch:

lmao:couch: