Advice before replacing 14 year old heatpump

[worahm]

I am about ready to replace a Traine heatpump. The Traine has run perfectly for 14 years but after much research, I have decided to have a reputable dealer replace it with an Carrier Infinity Series heat pump.

Whole House Air Filters
I am conflicted about electronic air cleaners. Three AC serviceman have told me that they prefer a high quality whole house media filter to an electonic filter. All three serviceman said it has been thier experience a high quality media filter will keep the inside of the air handler and the ductwork cleaner then an electronic filter unless a smoker occupies the house. They said the electronic filters do a good job of filtering very small dust particles (less then 3 microns) but not so good at filtering larger particles I use an updated (13merv) Aprilair media filter but would replace it with an electonic filter if I thought it would reduce the dust in my home. I am not certain any whole house filter will work well because all the return vents in my house are on the ceiling. It seems that most of the dust would be concentrated in the lower area of the room.

Thermostat
I don't mind paying for the Infinity thermostat but I see no advantage to turning down the temperature at night when using a heatpump. I have found the auxilary heater comes on much less if I just leave the thermostat set at one temperature. So, at least one reason for installing a top-of-the- line digital thermostate is mute. I am sure there are other good reasons to install the Infinity digital thermostat but I am at a lost to figure it out. Is there any thermostat that is better then the Carrier Infinity?

All comments are welcome. This will be the last heatpump I install in my house and I want to make sure I install the best componets I can find.

Thanks worahm Ocala, Florida

[gary_g]

This will be the last heatpump I install in my house....

Are you sure?

[tigerdunes]

worahm

what size are you replacing? this is inland environment?

I prefer a 4-5" pleated filter media cabinet.

An Infinity HP system without the Infinity controller is a mistake.

For Florida, I would want a thermostat that has "dehumidify on demand" capability along with ability to lock out aux heat at designated temp.

IMO

[INTECHBILL]

Good choice of equipment and air quality is very important - electronic filters were used in history but the newer media filters are improving greatly, electrostatic technology is improving to replace full electronic. It all comes to the final part of installation. We've seen new equipment so poorly installed that the old system was basically more eff..

Total Line is a very good thermostat and should be offered with the Carrier equipment , it's available in a flush mount or slim design that looks nice and can control the equipment very well ... contractor will often offer any thermostat with the installation.

[Stamas]

Match the stat. Infinity with the Infinity.
I like the way your service guys give you input.

[big sky hvac]

If you were wanting an electronic air cleaner, the only one I would recommend is the Aprilaire 5000. It has the ionizing wires like a electronic air cleaner, but also has a media filter to do a better job of air filtration. Honestly, the Aprilaire spaceguard filters(which sounds like what you already have) are very good. I agree that I would match stat to equip. to get max. efficiency.

[FlyersFan]

Is there any thermostat that is better then the Carrier Infinity?



If you're going with Infinity equipment then by all means go with the Infinity stat. It will allow you great humidity control in the summer (I keep mine at 76 degrees and 46-48% RH in the summer) and it will stage your heat pump and electric heat in the winter intelligently.

As with all good programmable t-stats, the Infinity is only as good as the person who sets it up so make sure the installer/service guy sets it up in a way that makes you the most comfortable in the house.

As far as filters go I'm a bigger fan of Aprilaire that I am of electronic air cleaners. Stick with the media.

[tocss]

The Infinity thermostat is well worth the investment. It will maximize the equipment potential. Even if you don't use it for humidity control, progammablity, or the outdoor temperature, the thermostat is powered from the unit (no batteries to replace) It is very easy to use, gives you control over the fan speed and comes with a 10- year parts warranty.

[pauls heating &]

+1 on the infinity stat/system

like it so much i put one in my house..a user friendly system
and the dehumidify operation is great too..
the whole system is configurable thru the infinity control..

[Todd S 2]

I agree with the guys that recommend the Infinity system with the Infinity control. It's a must to put those two together. Carrier makes a very nice 4" pleated filter or you can upgrade to the deluxe Infinity Air Purifier. I love my Carrier Air Purifier.

[worahm]

Are you sure?

I'm 76 and I expect the new heatpump to last at least 14 years. I guess it is possible that I will still be around then but I am not sure I will really care very much about buying another heat pump. worahm :angel:

[worahm]

I love my Carrier Air Purifier.[/QUOTE]

What is it that you like most about your Carrier Air Purifier? I know Carrier advertizes how well their electronic air purifier filters out and distroys very small particles of less then 3 microns but can you say, based on your personal experience that your electronic purifier reduces the dust in your home better then a high end media filter? Better yet..... What does your wife or significant other think about how well the Carrier electronic purifier filters the air in your home?

My wife of 50 years is constently complaining about the dust. Personally a little dust does not bother me but if the Carrier Electronic Purifier will reduce the dust better then the 13 Merv AprilAir filter I am using, I would buy it in a New York minute.

I might be a little slow but another thing I have trouble understanding is... I think it's reasonable to suppose that most of the dust is near the floor and all the return vents in my house are on the ceiling. I think it is safe to say that a whole house filter can only filter the air that passes through it. If most of the dust is near the floor and never gets near the return ducts on the ceiling, It doesn't make sense to me that the dust would end up in the filter or purifier. Where am I wrong?

worahm

[INTECHBILL]

If you were wanting an electronic air cleaner, the only one I would recommend is the Aprilaire 5000. It has the ionizing wires like a electronic air cleaner, but also has a media filter to do a better job of air filtration. Honestly, the Aprilaire spaceguard filters(which sounds like what you already have) are very good. I agree that I would match stat to equip. to get max. efficiency.

GREAT UNIT check out the spec's on the website -- better than others !

A Total Line control / Thermostat will give you more control over your system.. & knot the service tech..that doesn't live in your home /..

:callpro:

[worahm]

The Infinity thermostat is well worth the investment. It will maximize the equipment potential. Even if you don't use it for humidity control, progammablity, or the outdoor temperature, the thermostat is powered from the unit (no batteries to replace) It is very easy to use, gives you control over the fan speed and comes with a 10- year parts warranty.

You convinced me. I will list the Infinity thermostat as must have item when I order the unit.

I currently have 8 wires running to my existing thermostat. Will the Infinity thermostat require more wires?



Thanks for the input. worahm

[FlyersFan]

I currently have 8 wires running to my existing thermostat. Will the Infinity thermostat require more wires?



Infinity controls only need 4 of those 8. That's one of the nicest things about the installation.

[INTECHBILL]

You convinced me. I will list the Infinity thermostat as must have item when I order the unit.

I currently have 8 wires running to my existing thermostat. Will the Infinity thermostat require more wires?



Thanks for the input. worahm

You might want to consider the recent post " Carrier Infinity Question " before you finalize your motions...


:oops:

[worahm]

Thanks for the many replies. I appreciate your input. I will definately go with the Infinity thermostat.

I intend to discuss air purifiers further with the dealer before deciding how to go with that. I am still not convinced an electronic air purifier will do a better job then my AprilAir, 13 Merv media filter. The AprilAir Model 5000 purifier that incorporates both an electronic and media filter sounds interesting. I will do more research on that unit.

My next step is to talk to two of my neigbors who have recently had new heatpumps installed and are complaining of very high electric cost over the past two months. The weather has been way colder then normal here in Central Florida but is hard to explain why thier electric bill is twice has high as my electric bill during the same period.

After that comes the hard part. I intend to talk with three Carrier dealers. I suspect there will not be much difference in the bottom line price.

Between the $1500 federal tax credit, which is good until Dec 2010 and the Carrier $1200 rebate which just started March 1st and will last until June 30th, I should be able to negociate a decent bottom line price. Thanks again for the excellent input. worahm

[Todd S 2]

I love my Carrier Air Purifier.

What is it that you like most about your Carrier Air Purifier? I know Carrier advertizes how well their electronic air purifier filters out and distroys very small particles of less then 3 microns but can you say, based on your personal experience that your electronic purifier reduces the dust in your home better then a high end media filter? Better yet..... What does your wife or significant other think about how well the Carrier electronic purifier filters the air in your home?

My wife of 50 years is constently complaining about the dust. Personally a little dust does not bother me but if the Carrier Electronic Purifier will reduce the dust better then the 13 Merv AprilAir filter I am using, I would buy it in a New York minute.

I might be a little slow but another thing I have trouble understanding is... I think it's reasonable to suppose that most of the dust is near the floor and all the return vents in my house are on the ceiling. I think it is safe to say that a whole house filter can only filter the air that passes through it. If most of the dust is near the floor and never gets near the return ducts on the ceiling, It doesn't make sense to me that the dust would end up in the filter or purifier. Where am I wrong?

worahm[/QUOTE]

Any electronic air cleaner needs to be installed properly so it doesn't produce a ozone smell. My Carrier Air Purifier is just more efficient than a 4" media type. That is why I went that route. But, that said, the filter replacements are expensive.

[gary_g]

I'm 76 and I expect the new heatpump to last at least 14 years. I guess it is possible that I will still be around then but I am not sure I will really care very much about buying another heat pump. worahm :angel:

Hopefully you'll be around much longer than 14 years :)

Take care.

[gary_g]

My next step is to talk to two of my neigbors who have recently had new heatpumps installed and are complaining of very high electric cost over the past two months. The weather has been way colder then normal here in Central Florida but is hard to explain why thier electric bill is twice has high as my electric bill during the same period.


Possibilities:
- What is their indoor setpoint vs your setpoint?
- They are using more aux electric heat than you. Why?
- Insulation in your home vs theirs

[worahm]

Any electronic air cleaner needs to be installed properly so it doesn't produce a ozone smell. My Carrier Air Purifier is just more efficient than a 4" media type. That is why I went that route. But, that said, the filter replacements are expensive.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Todd.... I did not realize the Carrier Infinity Air Purifier used a replacable filter so I went back and reviewed the Infinity air purifier video on the Carrier web site.

You are absolutely correct, the filter is expensive (about $80.00) but at this point I would be OK with that as long as it did a better job then my April Air media filter.

It looks like it just might do that with a MERV rating of 15 and a replacable filter.

Does the Infinity get it's power from the air handler or does it require a 120 volt outlet to plug into? Do you have the Infinity air purifier mounted under the air handler or along side the air handler? How often do you replace the filter?

You said: "installed properly". Aside from making sure the duct work is sealed properly, are you saying there is a best place to install the purifier?

My air handler is mounted on top of a 30"W x 5'L x 3'H insulated box in the garage. The media filter is mounted on it's side, next to the air handler on top of the box with the cold-air return duct from the attic attached to the "air in" opening of the filter. So the return air runs thru the filter and into the insulated box then is drawn up into the air handler and distributed thru insulated ducts located in the attic and into the house.

Any comments on the best place to position the filter? Under the air handler or in the cold air return along side the air handler? Thanks again.. worahm

[Todd S 2]

I have a furnace instead of a fan coil. My Air Purifier is 110v. They make a 20v. to tie into your 220v. Carrier fan coil. Have you bought the system yet? If not, they will mount the filter (if room allows) under the fan coil. That is one way to do it. Your current filter/return duct sounds okay. What size is the H/P and what size is the return air duct?
Also, how many return air grilles are in the home?

[davefr]

I am about ready to replace a Traine heatpump. The Traine has run perfectly for 14 years but after much research, I have decided to have a reputable dealer replace it with an Carrier Infinity Series heat pump.



Why do you want to replace a system that's running perfectly? It could die tomorrow or run for another 14 years. I'd wait for it to be problematic before replacing it.

[jerryd_2008]

Why do you want to replace a system that's running perfectly? It could die tomorrow or run for another 14 years. I'd wait for it to be problematic before replacing it.

Replaced my split AC/furnace at 15 years to avoid that exact problem. Why wait for it to fail on its own time when I could get over 1/3 off with rebate and tax credit and raise the efficiency from 10 SEER to 17, add variable speed blower and modulating furnace for comfort and DFHP to boot?

All depends on how it's working and your tolerance for risk. Me, I didn't like losing heat for 3 1/2 days during an ice storm. Can't imagine waiting a couple weeks to get a new system in the middle of winter or 95 degree weather or worse yet putting in any thing the contractor had in the back of his truck.

[gary_g]

Why do you want to replace a system that's running perfectly? It could die tomorrow or run for another 14 years. I'd wait for it to be problematic before replacing it.

3 years ago, I replaced a fully-functioning 21 year-old 8 SEER Trane heat pump with a new 14 SEER / 9 HSPF pump. Did this to combat a 72% rise in electric rates thanks to de-regulation without competition. Estimate a 40% reduction in summer cooling costs. Less in winter, but still significant.

Without the 72% rise in rates, I would not have replaced the old heat pump.

Take care.

[davefr]

Replaced my split AC/furnace at 15 years to avoid that exact problem. Why wait for it to fail on its own time when I could get over 1/3 off with rebate and tax credit and raise the efficiency from 10 SEER to 17, add variable speed blower and modulating furnace for comfort and DFHP to boot?

All depends on how it's working and your tolerance for risk. Me, I didn't like losing heat for 3 1/2 days during an ice storm. Can't imagine waiting a couple weeks to get a new system in the middle of winter or 95 degree weather or worse yet putting in any thing the contractor had in the back of his truck.

You've obviously been very thorough in your decision making process. Good luck with your new system. Make sure your contractor is the best you can find!!

[worahm]

Quote: how many return air grilles are in the home?

There are six 10"x12" returns (one in most rooms) along with a 24" square return in the main living area and a 18" square return in the master bedroom.

The main cold air return duct that feeds the box in the garage is 23" x 25" and widens out to 23" x 25" to mate up with the April Air media filter which is setting top of the box.

There is at least one air outlet grill in every room (3 rooms have two outlets) and in 4 walk-in closets have a small outlet. There are no cold air returns in the closets.

The duct work is rigid fiberglass covered with aluminum foil on both sides. The wall thinkness of the duct material is approximately 1-1/4" thick so the actual inside dimensions are smaller. In the attic the duct work converts to round tubes of various diameters.

Based on your commets, it sounds like I will have three alternatives relative to where the air purifier can be mounted. 1. Inside the air handler.. 2. On top of the box next to the air handler in the cold air return 3. Under the air handler cabinet. (between the airhandler and the box)

Am I just beating a dear horse here or Is there a best place to mount the air purifier?

I am happy you mentioned mounting the air purifier inside the air handler. I was not aware that was an alternative. worahm

[Todd S 2]

Quote: how many return air grilles are in the home?

There are six 10"x12" returns (one in most rooms) along with a 24" square return in the main living area and a 18" square return in the master bedroom.

The main cold air return duct that feeds the box in the garage is 23" x 25" and widens out to 23" x 25" to mate up with the April Air media filter which is setting top of the box.

There is at least one air outlet grill in every room (3 rooms have two outlets) and in 4 walk-in closets have a small outlet. There are no cold air returns in the closets.

The duct work is rigid fiberglass covered with aluminum foil on both sides. The wall thinkness of the duct material is approximately 1-1/4" thick so the actual inside dimensions are smaller. In the attic the duct work converts to round tubes of various diameters.

Based on your commets, it sounds like I will have three alternatives relative to where the air purifier can be mounted. 1. Inside the air handler.. 2. On top of the box next to the air handler in the cold air return 3. Under the air handler cabinet. (between the airhandler and the box)

Am I just beating a dear horse here or Is there a best place to mount the air purifier?

I am happy you mentioned mounting the air purifier inside the air handler. I was not aware that was an alternative. worahm

It doesn't mount inside but it (can) fit on the bottom. The dimensions are the same. That's just one of the options available to the installer. It sounds like your duct system (return) is large enough. That's good.

[worahm]

Why do you want to replace a system that's running perfectly? It could die tomorrow or run for another 14 years. I'd wait for it to be problematic before replacing it.

1. My system is running well but the unit is 14 years old and I am a realist. I recently had the air handler blower motor capacitor and the contactor on the condenser replaced.

2. There is zero possiblity it will run for another 14 years. Nearly everyone in in my community has replaced their heatpump before the unit was 12 years old. My neighbor's unit failed at 9 years old.

3. Until the end of 2010 I can take a tax credit of $1500 if I replace my heatpump with a qualifiing unit before December 31st, 2010

4. Carrier is currently offering a $1200 rebate from March 1st until June 30th
for a total savings or $2700.00 or over 28%.

5. No pressure... I can interveiw several AC dealers before making up my mind what equipment to buy and select the best dealer to install it.

6. Replacing the unit at my convenience with the options I want, when I want it has to be better then replacing the unit in an emergency situation. Not knowing what is available and relying on a salesman to tell me what equipment is available and best for me. worahm

[FlyersFan]

6. Replacing the unit at my convenience with the options I want, when I want it has to be better then replacing the unit in an emergency situation. Not knowing what is available and relying on a salesman to tell me what equipment is available and best for me.

I wish more people thought like you. Most wait until the middle of the season and need it NOW so they haven't though about what they want, nor have they budgeted for replacements.

[gary_g]

6. Replacing the unit at my convenience with the options I want, when I want it has to be better then replacing the unit in an emergency situation. Not knowing what is available and relying on a salesman to tell me what equipment is available and best for me. worahm

That option is worth its weight in gold.

[Todd S 2]

1. My system is running well but the unit is 14 years old and I am a realist. I recently had the air handler blower motor capacitor and the contactor on the condenser replaced.

2. There is zero possiblity it will run for another 14 years. Nearly everyone in in my community has replaced their heatpump before the unit was 12 years old. My neighbor's unit failed at 9 years old.

3. Until the end of 2010 I can take a tax credit of $1500 if I replace my heatpump with a qualifiing unit before December 31st, 2010

4. Carrier is currently offering a $1200 rebate from March 1st until June 30th
for a total savings or $2700.00 or over 28%.

5. No pressure... I can interveiw several AC dealers before making up my mind what equipment to buy and select the best dealer to install it.

6. Replacing the unit at my convenience with the options I want, when I want it has to be better then replacing the unit in an emergency situation. Not knowing what is available and relying on a salesman to tell me what equipment is available and best for me. worahm

Good for you for being pro-active. You're right to take advantage of the rebates (mfg. and utility co.) and the federal tax credits. Plus the advantage of the warranties, increased comfort and efficiency you'll receive. Also, the new equipment will add value when you sell the home. P.S. Carrier also has a special on the 10 year parts and labor plan. Hopefully they told you this?

[jerryd_2008]

Worahm, like your thinking. You sound like a twin brother but I don't think that I have one.

Here is another rebate source that you should investigate to see if there is some more of some other people's money on the table (just click on your state and check the various rebate sources): http://www.dsireusa.org/

Good luck.

[worahm]

<Quote> Carrier also has a special on the 10 year parts and labor plan. Hopefully they told you this?

I interviewed the first dealer today. The price he quoted was about what I thought it would be. When I mentioned extended warranty to cover labor, he told me Carrier currently includes a 10 year parts and labor guarantee in the price of the Infinity Series heatpumps and the $1200 Carrier rebate would be deducted from the total price so I would not have to deal with Carrier through the mail. He also mentioned the "Armor coat" (tin plated) evaporator coil is standard on the Infinity Series.

He threw in, at no additional charge, the optional 4" extended feet for the condenser cabinet and an extra filter for the Infinity Air Purifier.

The rep was not pushy he seemed knowegable and technicaly compentent. He seems impressed with both the feed and return duct systems.

We discussed the size of the replacment copper line set. He started to make a case for 3/4" - 3/8" diameter copper line set but did not resist when I said I felt 7/8" - 3/8" was a better choice unless he could give me a good reason not to go with the larger diameter tubing.

We also dicussed if the copper would be silver soldered or soldered with lead/tin solder. He was not certain but said he would get back to me with the answer.

All in all, a pretty good experience.

Dealer number 2 scheduled for early tomorrow morning. worahm

[jerryd_2008]

...

I interviewed the first dealer today. The price he quoted was about what I thought it would be. When I mentioned extended warranty to cover labor, he told me Carrier currently includes a 10 year parts and labor guarantee in the price of the Infinity Series heatpumps and the $1200 Carrier rebate would be deducted from the total price so I would not have to deal with Carrier through the mail. ...

My experience is that labor warranties are NOT provided by the manufacturer beyond 30-90 days, say. The contractor usually warranties labor for the remainder of the first year. You sure that this isn't the contractor's labor warranty? If it is, then be really sure that he will be around since this is his "personal" warranty and not that of Carrier.

It is also NOT my experience that the rebate is subtracted from the proposal price. Rebates vary with manufacturer, but it is not unusual for both the contractor and the distributor to be required to participate in the rebate. In my case I believe that it was 50% manufacturer and 25% each for the contractor and distributor.

IMO I would like to see the proposal include the total cost along with all warranties being provided. Then I would like to see the rebate amount and from whom I must obtain it. My case required that I apply for the rebate from the manufacturer with a detailed itemization of every unit along with model and serial number. Since the maximum rebate required additional IAQ units, they were very fussy about exact models and even rejected it once when they did not recognize one unit that the contractor listed. Companies providing rebates can use 3rd parties to process the rebate and these companies can and will follow the rebate terms to the letter.

I would ask all proposers to do it the exact same way for an apples-to-apples proposal comparison.

[worahm]

I interviewed the second AC company this morning. This company works things a little differently. They sent a technician with 18 years experience. He collected all the information and will take it back to his company. The company will then send me a firm quote based on our conversation thorough USPS and also via Email.

He mentioned because the Carrier Infinity is sensitive to air pressure differential, he would have to measure the system air flow. He measured the pressure differential with a Magnihelic meter. Good news... the delta P in my system is 0.12"wc with the filter installed in the system. Also there is plenty of room to fit both the air handler and the Carrier Air Purifier on the air box. I believe I understood the technician correctly when he said the system will shut down when the pressure differenital reaches 0.4"wc.

The openings on the bottom of the air handler and the air purifier, are not the same as the exiting air handler and media filter. The way the new and different openings are handled is to place a 3/4" thick piece of plywood on the top of the air box and cut new openings to match the new equipment. Generally they would not paint the new piece of plywood and doing so would inconvenience the installers. So, I volunteered to have a piece of 3/4" thick, pre-painted plywood ready for the intallers to cut the new openings and install on the top of the air box. Actually it will save me a lot of time later trying to paint around the air handler and filter.

It appears the small electric box that powers the condenser will have to be relocated. Apparently, our county code requires the condenser must be located at least 36" from the electric power box mounted on the wall of the house. It is currently only 30". He did not seem to consider it a major inconvenience.

Because the outside unit is a bit larger then the current unit, a larger cement pad will have to be installed. He saw no problem with laying the new pad over the exiting pad. He also mentioned that the condenser will have to be attached to the pad with straps to meet our county code.

We spent a considerable amount of time discussing the Infinity thermostat. Apparently, the ony thermostat that can be used with the Infinity system is the Infinity thermostat. There are many settings that are controled by the thermastat. The blower speed, when and how the fan operates and when and how the auxilary heater turns onand off, along with codes that will help identify problems with the system. I am hoping the thermostat comes with a comprehensive user's manual that will discuss the settings in detail.

Even though I was disappointed that I would have to wait for the quote, I was enormesly impressed with this young man, maybe because I prefer talking to a competent technician rather then a salesman.

I checked the BBB web site and found there have been no complaints directed toward this company for the past 3 years. I think I will asked them for the names of a few recent customers just to make sure.

Because I was so impressed with this company, I might just stop my survey at this point. If thier quote is in the same ball park as the fist company I will probably go with the second company. worahm

[Todd S 2]

I interviewed the second AC company this morning. This company works things a little differently. They sent a technician with 18 years experience. He collected all the information and will take it back to his company. The company will then send me a firm quote based on our conversation thorough USPS and also via Email.

He mentioned because the Carrier Infinity is sensitive to air pressure differential, he would have to measure the system air flow. He measured the pressure differential with a Magnihelic meter. Good news... the delta P in my system is 0.12"wc with the filter installed in the system. Also there is plenty of room to fit both the air handler and the Carrier Air Purifier on the air box. I believe I understood the technician correctly when he said the system will shut down when the pressure differenital reaches 0.4"wc.

The openings on the bottom of the air handler and the air purifier, are not the same as the exiting air handler and media filter. The way the new and different openings are handled is to place a 3/4" thick piece of plywood on the top of the air box and cut new openings to match the new equipment. Generally they would not paint the new piece of plywood and doing so would inconvenience the installers. So, I volunteered to have a piece of 3/4" thick, pre-painted plywood ready for the intallers to cut the new openings and install on the top of the air box. Actually it will save me a lot of time later trying to paint around the air handler and filter.

It appears the small electric box that powers the condenser will have to be relocated. Apparently, our county code requires the condenser must be located at least 36" from the electric power box mounted on the wall of the house. It is currently only 30". He did not seem to consider it a major inconvenience.

Because the outside unit is a bit larger then the current unit, a larger cement pad will have to be installed. He saw no problem with laying the new pad over the exiting pad. He also mentioned that the condenser will have to be attached to the pad with straps to meet our county code.

We spent a considerable amount of time discussing the Infinity thermostat. Apparently, the ony thermostat that can be used with the Infinity system is the Infinity thermostat. There are many settings that are controled by the thermastat. The blower speed, when and how the fan operates and when and how the auxilary heater turns onand off, along with codes that will help identify problems with the system. I am hoping the thermostat comes with a comprehensive user's manual that will discuss the settings in detail.

Even though I was disappointed that I would have to wait for the quote, I was enormesly impressed with this young man, maybe because I prefer talking to a competent technician rather then a salesman.

I checked the BBB web site and found there have been no complaints directed toward this company for the past 3 years. I think I will asked them for the names of a few recent customers just to make sure.

Because I was so impressed with this company, I might just stop my survey at this point. If thier quote is in the same ball park as the fist company I will probably go with the second company. worahm

We also have a salesman here that know nothing about HVAC. I think this is common. It's sad. Anyway, to have the installer look makes a lot of sense since the salesman is clueless. Everything you said he said makes sense.

[worahm]

It turns out that moving the electrical box that is mounted on the cement block wall on my house and that feeds the AC compressor might be a bigger deal then I first suspected.

One contractor I interviewed did not feel there was a problem as far as the distance between the electrical box and the outside unit is concerned. He felt it would be best to just install the unit and let the inspector do his job. He felt there was plenty of room between the box an the heatpump (28") and the inspector would "probably" not be concerned. When I questioned what the code requirement, he did not answer. I don't think he knew the answer.

The second contractor wants to move the box. He also did not seem to know the required distance but said he would rather move the box just to be certain the inspector did not have an issue.

The second contractor said in order to move the box he would have to run the wires inside a conduit mounted on the outside wall. I would rather not do that but I understand that running the wires inside the cement block wall is probably not an good option.

My neighbor told me they had to have their newly installed outside unit moved after it was installed because the distance was not at least 36". When I questioned her further, she admitted she was not certain about the required distance. Because I have vinyl fense around my outside unit, moving the unit more then a few inches is not an option.

I would like to inquire about the county code that pertains to the minimum distance between the electrical box and the outside AC unit just to make sure the issue is real and not a phantom rule that is the figment of someone's imagination.

How would I best accomplish that? Is calling the county building inspector's office a reasonable way to go? Is there a electrical code book relative to AC and heatpump installation available? I imagine the code varies in different communities.

worahm

[Todd S 2]

It turns out that moving the electrical box that is mounted on the cement block wall on my house and that feeds the AC compressor might be a bigger deal then I first suspected.

One contractor I interviewed did not feel there was a problem as far as the distance between the electrical box and the outside unit is concerned. He felt it would be best to just install the unit and let the inspector do his job. He felt there was plenty of room between the box an the heatpump (28") and the inspector would "probably" not be concerned. When I questioned what the code requirement, he did not answer. I don't think he knew the answer.

The second contractor wants to move the box. He also did not seem to know the required distance but said he would rather move the box just to be certain the inspector did not have an issue.

The second contractor said in order to move the box he would have to run the wires inside a conduit mounted on the outside wall. I would rather not do that but I understand that running the wires inside the cement block wall is probably not an good option.

My neighbor told me they had to have their newly installed outside unit moved after it was installed because the distance was not at least 36". When I questioned her further, she admitted she was not certain about the required distance. Because I have vinyl fense around my outside unit, moving the unit more then a few inches is not an option.

I would like to inquire about the county code that pertains to the minimum distance between the electrical box and the outside AC unit just to make sure the issue is real and not a phantom rule that is the figment of someone's imagination.

How would I best accomplish that? Is calling the county building inspector's office a reasonable way to go? Is there a electrical code book relative to AC and heatpump installation available? I imagine the code varies in different communities.

worahm

Yes, feel free to call. The inspector would be happy to talk to you. He may even offer to come to your house. I would not be surprised, after seeing the job, that he would cut you a little slack, if needed.

[worahm]

<Qoute> My experience is that labor warranties are NOT provided by the manufacturer beyond 30-90 days, say. The contractor usually warranties labor for the remainder of the first year. You sure that this isn't the contractor's labor warranty? If it is, then be really sure that he will be around since this is his "personal" warranty and not that of Carrier.

My mistake.. You are absolutly correct. I met with the highly rated factory authorized dealer yesterday and it turns out that I am paying extra for the extended warranty. Carrier includes a one year, 100% parts and labor warranty on the entire unit. They will repair the unit or remove the system and refund my money if I am not completely satisfied.

There is a 10 year factory warranty on the compressor and 5 year factory parts warrany on the entire unit along with 10 year lightning protection and rust through warranty. I paid to extend the warranty to include parts and labor for 10 years.

According to the dealer, the rebate offered by Carrier can either be handled by the customer or by the dealer. There are two different forms. The dealer said Carrier tends to get the rebate to the custumer faster then to the dealer but he was more then willing to handle the rebate and deduct the rebate from the quoted price of both the Infinity heatpump and the Infinity air purifier. The $1500.00 federal tax credit will be handled by me and will be part of my 2010 tax return.

After interving three factory authorized contractors, I selected a contractor who I am really impressed with. He seemed knowledgeable and competent. He has been around since the late 90's and he has no complaints listed with the BBB. He was willing to take his time explaining what the installation would entail and was willing to work with me as far as scheduling the installation date. I intend to have him do the installation within the next few weeks.

I appreciate the advice and the responses the members of this forum have offered. It is fair to say that my interaction with the forum was responsible for me getting the best possible heatpump at a fair price and hire the right contractor.

I not only learned a lot about heatpumps, I also learned what equipment to avoid, what to be concerned with and how to asked the right questions. Thank you forum. worahm