Single stage heat pump or Dual stage ? Which one to go with?

[PB72]

I have narrowed my search to a company I wish to install my equipment. I am having a difficult time trying to decide which unit to go with:

Amana ASZ 14 SEER Heat pump (Single stage) mated with an Amana Variable speed air handler or,

Amana ASZC 16 SEER Heat pump (dual stage) mated with an Amana Variable Speed air handler


Rep I am working with found a $77/yr energy savings b/n the two. I know there are pro's and cons for choosing single vs. dual stage....my rep recommends the single stage for my application, as it will provide a "hotter" heat during the winter as it will be running on full capacity when on, instead of the lower setting with a dual. He typically installs dual stage on larger homes and when the owner wants to do zoning. With the variable speed air handler, he believes I won't see much difference in cooling in the summer with the single stage vs. dual.

I have an approx. 1400 sq ft. ranch home with an unfinished basement. I plan to finish the basement in the future.

What do you think...single stage or dual stage?

thanks!

[ChuckHVAC]

I recommend the single stage.

[INTECHBILL]

The only different in these units are a built in solenoid valve within the compressor .. Almost all of the air handlers today are variable speed - a 2 stage will give you more savings, more controlled climate condition, lower noise and it's worth the few extra bucks ..

[wahoo]

Usually that 14 SEER will attain 15 SEER when matched to the proper variable speed air handler, so gotta recommend the single speed unless you are going with a zoned system. I agree with Chuck on this. If the single will give you 15 SEER, and the two speed 16, go with simpler unit. Another point to make is the longer fan "run" times with two stage HP. We recently removed a 2 speed HP because the customer complained that it never shut off in cold weather. We tried to tell him, and showed him it was running at the lower stage for so many minutes, and then went to second stage, and then if not satisfied, the strip heat came on. But still he did not want the system "running" all the time. Took HP out and put a 95% gas back in. Now he loves it because it "puts out warm air" and of course it shuts off. I'd go with the single speed unit. IMO anyway.

[PB72]

Usually that 14 SEER will attain 15 SEER when matched to the proper variable speed air handler, so gotta recommend the single speed unless you are going with a zoned system. I agree with Chuck on this. If the single will give you 15 SEER, and the two speed 16, go with simpler unit. IMO anyway.

Yes, that is what my rep told me, it will attain the 15 SEER, and the tax credit.

[beenthere]

Usually that 14 SEER will attain 15 SEER when matched to the proper variable speed air handler, so gotta recommend the single speed unless you are going with a zoned system. I agree with Chuck on this. If the single will give you 15 SEER, and the two speed 16, go with simpler unit. Another point to make is the longer fan "run" times with two stage HP. We recently removed a 2 speed HP because the customer complained that it never shut off in cold weather. We tried to tell him, and showed him it was running at the lower stage for so many minutes, and then went to second stage, and then if not satisfied, the strip heat came on. But still he did not want the system "running" all the time. Took HP out and put a 95% gas back in. Now he loves it because it "puts out warm air" and of course it shuts off. I'd go with the single speed unit. IMO anyway.


So he had gas heat. Went to a heat pump, and didn't like a heat pump period.

Probably wouldn't have mattered if it was a single stage. he wouldn't have liked it.

[beenthere]

Yes, that is what my rep told me, it will attain the 15 SEER, and the tax credit.

A 2 stage heat pump isn't designed to save you a lot on your heating or cooling bill.
What its designed for. is to provide you with a greater comfort. And sometimes. This greater comfort, can be provided at a lower temp in the winter, and a higher temp in the summer. And that is when they may save you some noticeable money on either your heating or cooling, or both.

[SBKold]

Is there a reason for the communicating outdoor unit and a non-communicating a/handler?

Also been, since youre online......

I recently convinced my Dad to let us try a 93% amana on a hybrid job.

In your Op this is smart even in our climate yeah? She had high bills with her 1983 Magic Chef Furnace.

Have any savings estimates for me @ $1.44 per ccf?

[beenthere]

If swapped out same size. On paper, 3 bucks per million BTUs the house uses. In real life, probably closer to 2.50

If sized properly. Should get the full 3 bucks. Since the supply temp will be lower.

What will help the most. Is if you can keep the supply temp under 120 if its in an unconditioned space. Even if its in an unheated basement.

[SBKold]

So on paper its 3 bucks savings real life 2.50 per million btus with a 93% over a 80%?

[beenthere]

I used 78% for the old furnace. Since its a 1983.


But, on paper it doesn't come out to much. When doing same size swap out.

If your going from a 100,000 to a 80,000, it saves a lot.

Also. keep in mind, that was only for 1,000,000 BTUs. How many BTUs does the house use annually. 40,000,000BTUs, 60,000,000BTUs, 80,000,000 BTUs, etc?

At 40 mil, its about 120 bucks a year.

If they become more comfortable with the longer run time. that they set their stat lower, they save more yet.

[SBKold]

We are going from a 100K to a 90k.

Thanks for the help with the math.

Would you say Im doing my customer a service by upselling the 93%? It costs me around $ more.

[beenthere]

If you do a load calc, and put in the right size, you are.

If the old 100,000 is only 78% efficient(or even 80%), and you put in a 90,000 BTU input 93%, your actually increasing furnace output size. And could end up using more gas.


PS: This is the open resi forum, no prices allowed. I removed it already.

[SBKold]

Oops...sometimes forget that no price deal.

My dad is old school. If the cust asks for larger equipment he gives it to them for the "cover your butt" factor. Im doing my best to convince him to stop that. Thanks to you guys Im slowly turning it around.

I understand the increased output. It will be a two stage furnace so that should help too.

[Todd S 2]

I have narrowed my search to a company I wish to install my equipment. I am having a difficult time trying to decide which unit to go with:

Amana ASZ 14 SEER Heat pump (Single stage) mated with an Amana Variable speed air handler or,

Amana ASZC 16 SEER Heat pump (dual stage) mated with an Amana Variable Speed air handler


Rep I am working with found a $77/yr energy savings b/n the two. I know there are pro's and cons for choosing single vs. dual stage....my rep recommends the single stage for my application, as it will provide a "hotter" heat during the winter as it will be running on full capacity when on, instead of the lower setting with a dual. He typically installs dual stage on larger homes and when the owner wants to do zoning. With the variable speed air handler, he believes I won't see much difference in cooling in the summer with the single stage vs. dual.

I have an approx. 1400 sq ft. ranch home with an unfinished basement. I plan to finish the basement in the future.

What do you think...single stage or dual stage?

thanks!

The reason I would recommend a "2-speed" H/P for the increase in the comfort and noise reduction. The savings is also a (smaller) factor.

[INTECHBILL]

Usually that 14 SEER will attain 15 SEER when matched to the proper variable speed air handler, so gotta recommend the single speed unless you are going with a zoned system. I agree with Chuck on this. If the single will give you 15 SEER, and the two speed 16, go with simpler unit. Another point to make is the longer fan "run" times with two stage HP. We recently removed a 2 speed HP because the customer complained that it never shut off in cold weather. We tried to tell him, and showed him it was running at the lower stage for so many minutes, and then went to second stage, and then if not satisfied, the strip heat came on. But still he did not want the system "running" all the time. Took HP out and put a 95% gas back in. Now he loves it because it "puts out warm air" and of course it shuts off. I'd go with the single speed unit. IMO anyway.

First of all - What's a 2 speed HP ?
Second - What's a single speed unit ?

:oops:

There are many advantages with the 2 stage system , including a great warranty... The air handler can be calibrated in many ways for different air flow, humidification and condensate removal , as well as the outdoor section defrost time / sequence .., the 2 stage system can be operated as a single stage as well by connecting the Y1 & Y2 together .. Good choice of equipment that's in its 6th generation and tried and tested by many , in fact the current model your referring to has been designed by many contractors offering good advice to the manufacturing process.

:patriot:

[Todd S 2]

First of all - What's a 2 speed HP ?
Second - What's a single speed unit ?

:oops:

There are many advantages with the 2 stage system , including a great warranty... The air handler can be calibrated in many ways for different air flow, humidification and condensate removal , as well as the outdoor section defrost time / sequence .., the 2 stage system can be operated as a single stage as well by connecting the Y1 & Y2 together .. Good choice of equipment that's in its 6th generation and tried and tested by many , in fact the current model your referring to has been designed by many contractors offering good advice to the manufacturing process.

:patriot:

I'm guessing they are recommending a 3 ton H/P. A 2-speed will run on the low speed a lot of the time giving you a quieter and more comfortable heat.
With heat pumps we size them a little bigger to give us more heating Btus but then it's too big on the A/C size. That's why it's nice to have the 2-speed to give dehumidification during the summer.

[duckman373]

I think he as referring to the misnomer of 2 "speed" vs the proper terminology of 2 "stage". I have a feeling he knows his heat pumps

[Todd S 2]

I think he as referring to the misnomer of 2 "speed" vs the proper terminology of 2 "stage". I have a feeling he knows his heat pumps

I use the term "2-speed" when talking about A/C's or H/P's and "2-stage" when talking about furnaces. It keeps it straight for me but probably confusses the customer.

[beenthere]

I use the term "2-speed" when talking about A/C's or H/P's and "2-stage" when talking about furnaces. It keeps it straight for me but probably confusses the customer.

Probably. Since the A/C and HP's aren't 2 speeds.

[beenthere]

I understand the increased output. It will be a two stage furnace so that should help too.

That larger 2 stage may need to move 400CFM more in second stage then the old unit did. possible noise from duct work then.