Annual

[milkyway]

I'm just woundering how many hours it should take for a crew of to do an annual on a machine, CVHE, And F.. I'm thinking OK, lets change the oil, brush the tubes, run a few tests.. 48 hours between the two?

[Healey Nut]

First off, why are you changing the oil??? Oil changes are not part of a normal annual, there are done based on oil analysis.
Our usual annuals are clean condenser tubes ,leak test,service purge ,check electrical .tighten all flange gasket joints and megger motor 20hrs for a 500ton or less more for bigger chiller /more tubes . Just a rough guide based on local work or access issues .

[sabre11134]

600 Ton or less , Replace Oil filter & purge filter. Clean Cond tubes. Check machine operation. 16 hours No leak check included. And of course you can see if the machine has any leaks by your purge pumpout time.Here in florida bids are tight.

[Doesn'tPhaseMe]

And of course you can see if the machine has any leaks by your purge pumpout time.

Yep, no sense wasting time looking for a leak that doesn't exist or is so small it's not a factor.

[milkyway]

i have a few customers that want oil changed every year., idk

[acjourneyman]

Whare are you located, 48 hours, I would feel very comfortable bidding against you.
PS Graham, with the exchange rate it is only 16 hours in the US.

[duke of earl]

I have no idea how much time I get. I just do it and also service the cooling towers, pumps, controls,etc. No one ever complains about the time spent on the job.

[milkyway]

I have no idea how much time I get. I just do it and also service the cooling towers, pumps, controls,etc. No one ever complains about the time spent on the job.

i could see that only if there was plenty of work to go around., times are tough, bid s are tight :couchhide:

[Doesn'tPhaseMe]

.... No one ever complains about the time spent on the job.

You guys hiring :grin2:

[milkyway]

You guys hiring :grin2:

sure., :nopity:

[NYG-56]

Bottom line you will get what you pay for, Alot of times we get contracts back that we lost due to low bids, and find out that nothing was ever done, they just show up and fill out a log sheet, and call it a day! How else are they gonna make any money on them with a bid that low? You really have to communicate with the customers ( or operators ) and show them exactly what is included in your bid and why it has to be done.

[DITAW]

Going to start one tomorrow on 2 e machines, i was told i have 40 hours total. (450 ton machines) and that does t include tubes: :couch:

[Healey Nut]

40hrs two machines no tubes?????? Sign me up ......you guys hiring ...what will you do for thursday and friday ?????

[txhvac]

40 hours is better than 48.

[soonerfan]

48 hours for two machines is 3 days for 2 men. Not to crazy I don't think. Consider punching tubes, changing oil and purge filters, oil analysis, checking safeties, megging motor, checking starter and contacts, etc. I always like to at least leak check the components I had to change or disconnect to check no matter what the purge says. If it is a 123 machine it takes a while to get it above zero. Oh yeah, and then mop the floor when you are done.

[M100 Tech]

We get 16 hours to do an E or an F. Someitmes an apprentice does the tubes. I usually do my own (much faster). It can be done in 12 very easily. No, leak check other than purge rate. Check electrical, megg motor, change oil and purge filter. If it is a newer CH530 or adaptaview then there are really no safeties to check other than high pressure (you do check that dont you guys?) Most everythig can be done while you drain the cond.

[9675]

yeah you guys that get excited about where to sign up for 16 hour annuals on one machine. Do you get your parts delivered and know the job is coming up in advance or something, when I get told it is usually the evening before, and then you got to figure out what you need and if there is even a hot pack avialable, so I guess what I am trying to say is the actual work is the easy part, but the logistics can be a nightmare and time consumming

[M100 Tech]

Not a problem. We have DFS and Tech Mobility!

[heavymetaldad]

yeah you guys that get excited about where to sign up for 16 hour annuals on one machine. Do you get your parts delivered and know the job is coming up in advance or something, when I get told it is usually the evening before, and then you got to figure out what you need and if there is even a hot pack avialable, so I guess what I am trying to say is the actual work is the easy part, but the logistics can be a nightmare and time consumming

We're lucky if our dispatcher gets the address right, let alone the parts and tools.

[9675]

yeah its easy to burn half a day looking for someplace you have never been to, and especialy when it doesnt exsit.

[milkyway]

40hrs two machines no tubes?????? Sign me up ......you guys hiring ...what will you do for thursday and friday ?????

wow., i guess that there is really not much to an annual if no tubes huu?
just operation , sensors, gaskets , levels, temps., in and out , :bump:

[heavymetaldad]

wow., i guess that there is really not much to an annual if no tubes huu?
just operation , sensors, gaskets , levels, temps., in and out , :bump:

Not anymore. The days of annual bearing maintenance are over. I have only 1 'C' left.


And I like in and out, in and out.

[duke of earl]

I started building an Excel spreadsheet for each chiller plant that I service which includes location, equipment model and serials, parts needed and their part numbers, oil type, refrigerant type, lbs. of refrigerant per machine, tower belt size, etc. This will speed up my annuals considerably. I am also logging purge hours, oil change intervals, and other pertinant info to help with problems during the cooling season. This way when the office calls:callpro: and asks me about a particular chiller, I can answer their questions or just email them the current sheet.

[ga1279]

We generally have year to year contract with older Carrier 19DG's, 19DK's, 19DM's, 19EA's, 19EB's, CVHA's, CVHB's, CVHE's CVHF's,CVAA'S, OT's, HT's, YK's and everything else under the sun. Our general rule is the journeyman has 2 days. If tubes are to brushed an apprentice handles that. If the oil sample comes back bad then it would be at least an oil change, depending on what the analysis indicated. If it was aluminum, that would be bearings on some machines, zinc could also involve bearings. A possible tear-down inspection is required for further investigation. Copper could be tube wear, eddy current testing, or motor windings if applicable. Any of these test or inspections are above and beyond the normal scope and are extra charge. We do include pumps with our inspections both monthly, bi-monthly and quarterly plus a visual of the cooling tower. I have never had a problem this way. The bids are tight on cost, but with today's economic situation it dictates running your business that way.-GEO

[Randy S.]

Eddy current testing and copper in the oil?

[ga1279]

Randy S was there a question in there somewhere ? In a lot of older machines, some newer ones also you may get copper from the refrigerant side of the tubes in with oil. (ie) Tubes vibrating against the tube support sheet. This can readily be picked up by an Eddy Current Analysis.-GEO

[supertek65]

I agree!!
we are a small shop and i have a nice fluke megger, it was about a thousand dollars!
that being said. I know i can not check a 1000 hp motor with it.
what tool do you use.?????????????

I agree with 16 hours!

Like somebody else said sometimes you have to chase stuff down

I just did one where the end bells were belzonad and i had to go make some oversized o rings!
more time!!!!!!!!!!

I have a small hydraulic hand pump i check high pressure switches with.

I have alot of old wye delta stuff and always wonder if i spend enough time inspecting the starters.

I also do not change oil every year!
we do oil analysis and vibration analysis, eddy current testing.

i spend more time on accessories
pumps, drives, cooling tower, fan rooms, air compressors blah blah blah!!!!!!!1




We get 16 hours to do an E or an F. Someitmes an apprentice does the tubes. I usually do my own (much faster). It can be done in 12 very easily. No, leak check other than purge rate. Check electrical, megg motor, change oil and purge filter. If it is a newer CH530 or adaptaview then there are really no safeties to check other than high pressure (you do check that dont you guys?) Most everythig can be done while you drain the cond.

[supertek65]

9675 is an okay password for york chillers!
i like 1380!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

frank


yeah you guys that get excited about where to sign up for 16 hour annuals on one machine. Do you get your parts delivered and know the job is coming up in advance or something, when I get told it is usually the evening before, and then you got to figure out what you need and if there is even a hot pack avialable, so I guess what I am trying to say is the actual work is the easy part, but the logistics can be a nightmare and time consumming

[txhvac]

I agree!!
we are a small shop and i have a nice fluke megger, it was about a thousand dollars!
that being said. I know i can not check a 1000 hp motor with it.
what tool do you use.?????????????

I agree with 16 hours!

Like somebody else said sometimes you have to chase stuff down

I just did one where the end bells were belzonad and i had to go make some oversized o rings!
more time!!!!!!!!!!

I have a small hydraulic hand pump i check high pressure switches with.

I have alot of old wye delta stuff and always wonder if i spend enough time inspecting the starters.

I also do not change oil every year!
we do oil analysis and vibration analysis, eddy current testing.

i spend more time on accessories
pumps, drives, cooling tower, fan rooms, air compressors blah blah blah!!!!!!!1

One word " Biddle"

[M100 Tech]

a Megohm is a megohm is a megohm. The more expensive the tool does not make it a better tool. I have a fluke too but some of my guys use cheap ones!

[klove]

I agree!!
we are a small shop and i have a nice fluke megger, it was about a thousand dollars!
that being said. I know i can not check a 1000 hp motor with it.
what tool do you use.?????????????

Why can't you check a 1000 HP motor with your nice Fluke megger?

[Randy S.]

me bad and tired.

I was thinking that somebody was saying the eddy caused the copper in the oil.

I was working on a 123 machine that day.

[ga1279]

Randy S. Me thinks you been sniffin too close to dem Tranes and Yorkies. What I said was if I get an oil analysis report back from the lab and it shows PPM high in copper one area I would look at is tubes. CVHA's and 19EA's and 19EB's condenser tube supports will chafe against the refrigerant side of tubes causing wear and eventual breakthrough. Talk at you later gator-GEO

[9675]

Yeah more people understand 9675, just enough to get them to think, I too could post some more (super users) but I won't.

[supertek65]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

frank:couch:


Yeah more people understand 9675, just enough to get them to think, I too could post some more (super users) but I won't.

[supertek65]

hey K!
havent seen you for a while.

Many years ago I was to a teardown class and the instructor said that a regular megger would not work on stuff over 500 hp or so i an not exactly remembeer???? i guess i thought there was a bigger better tool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never asked why and have never megged any of the big compressors???

ofcourse does it really matter? Trane says more than 1 megohm is okay!!!!!!!
ofcourse any less than that and it will frikkkn blow up!!!!!!!! if it blows up i do not need a megger to diagnose the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek2:
I have had many compressors over the years meg at less than 10 meg and the customer always says.. we will just wait for it to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I have had a hitachi screw that has been megging at 6 meg for the last 5 years!!!!!!!!!1

by the way went to this web site and they do look kinda nice!!

http://www.biddlemegger.com/cgi-bin/webshop.cgi?config=ent-insulation&uid=iljmcyja126886737884&command=link--bi3380.htm


I guess I should have asked you guys instead of listening to the instructors!!!





Why can't you check a 1000 HP motor with your nice Fluke megger?

[heavymetaldad]

Hmmmmm.............I think our wind up megger is a Biddle.........

[supertek65]

yeah!
I have heard of biddle!
now that i think about it!
we have an old wind up but it is a MEGGER brand? or something like that??
howz it goin BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? ??????


Hmmmmm.............I think our wind up megger is a Biddle.........

[heavymetaldad]

Doing good Frank. I passed the last test Friday. (yippee)
And you? when you coming in?

[supertek65]

http://www.deviantart.com/download/92619039/Wind_up_Doll_by_davisprebot.jpgQUOTE=heavymetaldad ;6199832]Hmmmmm.............I think our wind up megger is a Biddle.........[/QUOTE]

[supertek65]

what test????????
stress test?????????????:callpro:


Doing good Frank. I passed the last test Friday. (yippee)
And you? when you coming in?

[heavymetaldad]

what test????????
stress test?????????????:callpro:

Where they knock me out and induce a condition to ensures the zapper zap.
Just as my chest hair finally grew back in, they shaved it off :gah:

[supertek65]

are they charging you for that???????????????

I could knock you out with a 60 inch steel pipe wrench and than zap you with my thousand dollar fluke megger! and i will only charge you a shrimp taco from taco bell?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????


Where they knock me out and induce a condition to ensures the zapper zap.
Just as my chest hair finally grew back in, they shaved it off :gah:

[supertek65]

then you will need one of these!!!!!!!!!!!!http://gryphonscry.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/sexy-nurse-2.jpg



are they charging you for that???????????????

I could knock you out with a 60 inch steel pipe wrench and than zap you with my thousand dollar fluke megger! and i will only charge you a shrimp taco from taco bell?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????

[heavymetaldad]

You too funny, Frank. When ya coming east?

[supertek65]

i guess i am not?????
the wood job went really BAD!
the Weitz company is the gc for both wood and peoria!
there is a clause that says if we owe backcharge from wood they can impose them at Peoria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so Joe cancelled the peoria job even though we won the bid!!!!!!!!!!!:nopity:


You too funny, Frank. When ya coming east?

[heavymetaldad]

Next time, I guess

[supertek65]

i will get out there to see you for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Next time, I guess