Americans being reconciled with mandatory health insurance payments

[wolfstrike]

even though the mandatory health insurance bill didn't have a lot of support Obama has stated that he doesn't want another year of arguments over this issue that will effect every American in the United States and create another massive money-hungry socialist program.


Obama has indicated that he wants the bill passed under a little known "reconciliation" rule which would allow them to pass the bill with 51% of a vote instead of the regular required 2/3rds (or what ever)

the "reconciliation" rule has been used 21 times in the past.

the government is in desperate need of the publicly paid health insurance revenue to pay for it's runaway spending.

[ga-hvac-tech]

even though the mandatory health insurance bill didn't have a lot of support Obama has stated that he doesn't want another year of arguments over this issue that will effect every American in the United States and create another massive money-hungry socialist program.


Obama has indicated that he wants the bill passed under a little known "reconciliation" rule which would allow them to pass the bill with 51% of a vote instead of the regular required 2/3rds (or what ever)

the "reconciliation" rule has been used 21 times in the past.

the government is in desperate need of the publicly paid health insurance revenue to pay for it's runaway spending.

Wolfie, you hit the nail on the head there! This is what the health care bill is all about... finding a revenue stream to get $$$ into the govt checking account... And this is NOT a good reason to give away the best health care system the world has ever seen to socialism.

Now lets think about this objectively:
1) If indeed the real reason is to get $$$ into the US checkbook, then
2) Obama has been lieing all along about the merits of the health-care bill and
3) The it appears the entire debate about health-care for all of last year was a big smoke screen to pass a tax to get revenues into the govt checkbook...
4) Given that he has been caught lieing... can we trust ANYTHING he ever says in the future?

MeThinks Mr Obama is about to be a lame duck less than half way through his only 4 year term.

[seatonheating]

To put it in simple terms, the health care system is corrupt with the drug industry and has been for many years.


Something has to change. Do you guys want it to stay the same?

[OuTcAsT]

Do you guys want it to stay the same?

Quite frankly...Yes. My insurance works fine the way it is.

[printer2]

Quite frankly...Yes. My insurance works fine the way it is.

It will not stay the same though, you could not afford it. As demographics take over and the baby boomers really start using the resources you take for granted it will suck the life out of the economy. You could head on down that road full speed ahead or grab the dashboard just before the crash.

[wolfstrike]

we need to break the medical monopolies and allow medical centers to compete again.

insurance CAUSED the high prices.
if people want medical insurance then it needs to be heavily regulated.

we also need someone to start looking into ...and destroy the fake treatments and pills

[ga-hvac-tech]

Originally Posted by OuTcAsT http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=6033072#post6033072)
Quite frankly...Yes. My insurance works fine the way it is.



It will not stay the same though, you could not afford it. As demographics take over and the baby boomers really start using the resources you take for granted it will suck the life out of the economy. You could head on down that road full speed ahead or grab the dashboard just before the crash.

I agree with outcast... I am good with my current arrangement. Most of all, I do NOT want any government messing up something that works for me. I have yet to see anything the government has messed with that works better than it used to before the government got ahold of it...

Again Printer: If you like your system in Canada, then I am glad for you... But I do NOT want your system in my country... and the folks I talk to seem to agree with me. Please allow me to control my own destiny.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by OuTcAsT http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=6033072#post6033072)
Quite frankly...Yes. My insurance works fine the way it is.




I agree with outcast... I am good with my current arrangement. Most of all, I do NOT want any government messing up something that works for me. I have yet to see anything the government has messed with that works better than it used to before the government got ahold of it...

Again Printer: If you like your system in Canada, then I am glad for you... But I do NOT want your system in my country... and the folks I talk to seem to agree with me. Please allow me to control my own destiny.

Never said you should copy us. Doubt it would work for you. Still that is no reason why you can not come up with something better than you got. I am sure some of you are smart enough to do it.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Never said you should copy us. Doubt it would work for you. Still that is no reason why you can not come up with something better than you got. I am sure some of you are smart enough to do it.

Why mess with something that works... Having said that... I am not interested in debating why it does or does not work... I am satisfied it works for me... and that is all I am concerned with. If someone else thinks it does not work for them... that is their issue, not mine.

[printer2]

If someone else thinks it does not work for them... that is their issue, not mine.

And they are working to change things. It is your right to do nothing for them.

[ga-hvac-tech]

And they are working to change things. It is your right to do nothing for them.

What is your definition of Socialism?

[timebuilder]

To put it in simple terms, the health care system is corrupt with the drug industry and has been for many years.


Something has to change. Do you guys want it to stay the same?

In simple terms, EVERY other nation has suffered in quality AND service whenever this has been tried.

In simple terms, no one has been successful at socialized medicine.

In simple terms, people still come here to get the world's BEST healthcare. Ask the prime minister of Canada. He'll tell you.

In simple terms, anyone can receive care. It is illegal to deny it.

In simple terms, these guys can only screw this up more by doing what they say they intend to do.

In simple terms.

[timebuilder]

the "reconciliation" rule has been used 21 times in the past.

When the Republicans were going do this a few years back to pass a bill the dems did not like, they said it would ruin our framework of governance, and Joe Biden said that he prayed that when the dems got back into power (as they are today) that they would not make such a naked power grab as to pass a bill such as this with 51 votes.

So, doing so would be hypocrisy.


Reconciliation is commonly used to pass budgets, not bills like this. That is the 21 times of use being referenced.

[printer2]

What is your definition of Socialism?

I have no definition of it. It is not something I rally for or against. This is the lens that you see things through.

[printer2]

In simple terms, EVERY other nation has suffered in quality AND service whenever this has been tried.

Can you please show where you get your information from. Seems you are just making things up.

In simple terms, no one has been successful at socialized medicine.

What do you consider socializing medicine?

In simple terms, people still come here to get the world's BEST healthcare. Ask the prime minister of Canada. He'll tell you.

Can you please tell me how you know what the Prime Minister of Canada would tell me?

In simple terms, anyone can receive care. It is illegal to deny it.

Sure, as long as you do not have a preexisting condition.

In simple terms, these guys can only screw this up more by doing what they say they intend to do.

So don't let them decide how it should be run. You decide. Right now you have the insurance companies, hospitals and the drug companies deciding for you. And they are looking after your (the country's) best interest.

In simple terms.

Would not have expected anything complex.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Lets remember something: This bill is not really about healthcare... even though that is what the rhetoric on paper says...

This bill is about getting a HUGE amount of tax $$$ into the federal checkbook, so the current Dems can spend it to pump the economy, so they look good in Nov and get re-elected. Simple politics...

Do you really think a congresscritter that pushes a bill which the majority of citizens do NOT want is looking out for you? :oops:

Do some research here:

www.realclearpolitics.com (http://www.realclearpolitics.com)

What the politicians say folks want, and what the folks say they want... are two different things... Lets remember: this country is about "We the People"... not 'We the politicians''...

Time we reminded them of WHO runs this country.

[maintenanceguy]

Four facts:


Right now EVERYBODY has health care. It might be paid through insurance, charity care, medicare, Medicaid, or not paid for at all but no body is denied health care.

Compared to most of the world, our health care is spectacular. Ridiculously spectacular.

Providing health care that is even more ridiculously spectacular will cost ridiculously more money. And the more the government is involved, the more ridiculously spectacular the cost will be.

Right now, the government can't afford anything more ridiculous than what it's already spending.


I think the government is more likely to break health care than they are to fix it.

[printer2]

Lets remember something: This bill is not really about healthcare... even though that is what the rhetoric on paper says...

This bill is about getting a HUGE amount of tax $$$ into the federal checkbook, so the current Dems can spend it to pump the economy, so they look good in Nov and get re-elected. Simple politics...

Do you really think a congresscritter that pushes a bill which the majority of citizens do NOT want is looking out for you? :oops:

Do some research here:

www.realclearpolitics.com (http://www.realclearpolitics.com)

What the politicians say folks want, and what the folks say they want... are two different things... Lets remember: this country is about "We the People"... not 'We the politicians''...

Time we reminded them of WHO runs this country.

Let me get this straight. The Democrats are passing a bill to collect money so that they can pump money into the economy which will get them elected in November?

Are you on the Star Ship Enterprise with Jean Luc snapping his fingers and saying 'Make it so?' That the government can get the IRS, businesses, all the uninsured, all the paperwork involved (Let's face it this is government, there is going to be a lot of red tape involved, hell you will have departments fighting for years who is going to generate the red tape.) get this all set up in less than half a year, collect the money, and then shower the country with it before November?

Boy, these guys are good!

[badboyheel]

^Can we set-up an ARP for non-US members?

[Tool-Slinger]

^Can we set-up an ARP for non-US members?
Already done. Here is the link:

http://www.britneyspears.com/

[printer2]

^Can we set-up an ARP for non-US members?

And why would you want to do that?

[bornriding]

we need to break the medical monopolies and allow medical centers to compete again.

Agreed here, the medical industry is a monoploy not a competition as it should be...

insurance CAUSED the high prices.

This I disagree with, somewhat...though insurance companies are ADDING to the fire, the high prices we pay are MAINLY due to pharmaticucal (?) companies & the doctors & medical centers....but even the doctors & medical centers are also responding tothe DESIRES of the American people...who want to live forever without any medical problems....

if people want medical insurance then it needs to be heavily regulated.

Again, slight disagree with. people need to pay for the health insurance that they want. With our company, my wife & I ( only 2 ) pay the same premiums as a family of ____ ( post ANY number ). Why should I have to pay because someone else has to cover additional people?

we also need someone to start looking into ...and destroy the fake treatments and pills

Its not just the fake treatments & pils, but the, not necessarily needed, medical procedures.
My mother, who is 78, went in for a 'test'. When I asked her what the test was for, she indicated that it was for something that she had no symptoms for, but they wanted to check anyway.... Of course the result of the procedure was negative....the doctor & the hospital got paid by her insurance company, of course. WHAT A SCAM.................

Just remember, doctors, hospital administrators, & insurance executives are people just like us...they look at charges just like we do....only they have a better monopoly, as just not anybody can do surgery :eek2:

Richard

[ga-hvac-tech]

Let me get this straight. The Democrats are passing a bill to collect money so that they can pump money into the economy which will get them elected in November?



Obviously Printer, you do not understand how politics works in the USA... Until you do... you might ought to do some more listening and less speaking...

There is one thing in American elections that has never changed: If folks feel good about the economy (not that the economy IS good, just that folks feel good about it), then they generally vote for incumbents... If folks feel like the economy is in the tank (regardless of what the truth is), then they ALWAYS change the folks in office. Go do some research.

OK, second point: What is said on the news is not always the truth. Have you downloaded the US healthcare bill and read it? All 2000+ pages... I have. And I can tell you for a fact that what one hears in the media is NOT what is on paper. And I can tell you that I would be MUCH worse off under the new bill than I am now. The bill is NOT about giving more to everyone, it is about regulating what goes out.

Folks that do not know what they are talking about prove their level of understanding when they open their mouths...

[ga-hvac-tech]

One change I would support is every test and procedure has a co-pay attached to it...

At first, one would say: Why should I have to pay all that $$$, why not have the insurance co pay? The answer is that if I am doing a $15,25,35 co-pay for each procedure, then I am going to ask 'What is this for, and why do I need it?'

IMO the result would be a lot less tests and procedures which are not necessary being done... and we ALL pay for this in the insurance premiums.

Thoughts?

[Tool-Slinger]

One change I would support is every test and procedure has a co-pay attached to it...

At first, one would say: Why should I have to pay all that $$$, why not have the insurance co pay? The answer is that if I am doing a $15,25,35 co-pay for each procedure, then I am going to ask 'What is this for, and why do I need it?'

IMO the result would be a lot less tests and procedures which are not necessary being done... and we ALL pay for this in the insurance premiums.

Thoughts?
Two thumbs up.

[timebuilder]

In order to eliminate unnecessary tests, you have to indemnify the doctors who ask for tests to prevent lawsuits.

The best way to fix healthcare is to eliminate ALL insurance for all but catastrophic illness. When we paid as we went, a Doctor visit cost $10. I paid that at 16 when going back to school.

If the public had NO insurance, then all costs would have to be lowered to the point where the consumer could make the purchase.

[printer2]

Obviously Printer, you do not understand how politics works in the USA... Until you do... you might ought to do some more listening and less speaking...

There is one thing in American elections that has never changed: If folks feel good about the economy (not that the economy IS good, just that folks feel good about it), then they generally vote for incumbents... If folks feel like the economy is in the tank (regardless of what the truth is), then they ALWAYS change the folks in office. Go do some research.

Wow. That is earth shattering. We have nothing like that happen north of the border. Oh wait a second, that is exactly the same way things happen north of the border.

OK, second point: What is said on the news is not always the truth. Have you downloaded the US healthcare bill and read it? All 2000+ pages... I have.

No I have not. I have downloaded the 1000+ version though. Actually used it to discount some inaccuracies that were being propagated in this forum.

And I can tell you for a fact that what one hears in the media is NOT what is on paper. And I can tell you that I would be MUCH worse off under the new bill than I am now. The bill is NOT about giving more to everyone, it is about regulating what goes out.

So how would you be worse off? And why are those changes being put forth?

Folks that do not know what they are talking about prove their level of understanding when they open their mouths...

Yes Sir! :patriot:

[ga-hvac-tech]

Yes Sir! :patriot:

Why, thank you for the respect! It is past due you know... :couch: