Questions on NCM's

[ControlsAreCool]

I have just taken over a site and I have to support these things until we can upgrade them to Jaces and then the world will be good. I was hoping some of you might be able to help me out with a few things.

All of the NCM's are standalone and have a modem hooked up to them. The modems are suppose to dial out whenever there is an alarm present and the point is configured to do so. However only a couple of the buildings actually do this. I have verified all of the settings in the ones that do work and the ones that do not work are the same. The other day I had the customer trip out the boilers to test the alarming and the point went into alarm status and the modem never even attempted to dial.

Another issue that I am having is that the previous service provider guess who that was, never replaced any of the batteries in the NCMs so everytime there is a power blip the thing needs to be downloaded. When I went to download the device it just went into a constant reboot every 2 min. or so even when it was connected to my PC and it said it was taking the download.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[fculotta]

It has been a long time since I messed with NCM's. Push the download button and let the NCM force the download. What software are you using in your PC. Have you looked at the DDL files? Do you have all the config files? If you have all the config files for the ASC's your transition to FX Supervisors will be a lot easier. As for as the dial out is concerned, it could be something as simple as the modems loosing their setups.

[freddy-b]

I have just taken over a site and I have to support these things until we can upgrade them to Jaces and then the world will be good. I was hoping some of you might be able to help me out with a few things.

All of the NCM's are standalone and have a modem hooked up to them. The modems are suppose to dial out whenever there is an alarm present and the point is configured to do so. However only a couple of the buildings actually do this. I have verified all of the settings in the ones that do work and the ones that do not work are the same. The other day I had the customer trip out the boilers to test the alarming and the point went into alarm status and the modem never even attempted to dial.

Another issue that I am having is that the previous service provider guess who that was, never replaced any of the batteries in the NCMs so everytime there is a power blip the thing needs to be downloaded. When I went to download the device it just went into a constant reboot every 2 min. or so even when it was connected to my PC and it said it was taking the download.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

they would do their download over the phone line to a archive OWS. So..dead battery with no modem activity = no download = dead NCM.

[Cal1]

I will assume you have a NCM 350.Did you check your Novram in the NCM kinda curious as to what port the modem is assigned to.What type code general with OT or NT use NT when you have a modem assigned to port two . Any error logs in the archive? Are you trying to download the database from your laptop to the NCM? Man better you than me that's all I can say


GB

[exwtk]

Did you check your Novram in the NCM kinda curious as to what port the modem is assigned to.What type code general with OT or NT use NT when you have a modem assigned to port two
GB

While you're checking the Novram in wncsetup, you also might want to check that the correct modem initialization string is set. Without the correct string the NCM will not be able to dial out.
If you need to change the modem initialization string, make sure to do a code and data download afterwards.... only during a code download will the new string be send to the NCM.

[ControlsAreCool]

Some of the NCMs are 300s and the rest are 200s. Nothing like keeping your customer up to speed on the latest tech. I will have to check the modem setups that was going to be my next step.

Have only had to maintain NCMs so I'm not that up to speed on the operations of them. Is the modem setup lost with the data on a power failure or does that at least stay. Working on many other products for a number of years now I can not believe how difficult it is to download these things.

[freddy-b]

Some of the NCMs are 300s and the rest are 200s. Nothing like keeping your customer up to speed on the latest tech. I will have to check the modem setups that was going to be my next step.

Have only had to maintain NCMs so I'm not that up to speed on the operations of them. Is the modem setup lost with the data on a power failure or does that at least stay. Working on many other products for a number of years now I can not believe how difficult it is to download these things.

You have not even got to the fun part yet. First you need to find where the NC is looking for the Archive...then hope to god that its a up to date/clean database with all models and source code for processes when you find it.

This could get real crappy real fast. Be careful.

[smokeout]

I am in the same boat kinda. I have a NCM 350 that power supply got wasted. replaced power supply and need to bring db back in. I should have all the tools to do it but not sure which route to take. The PMI is remote and the NCM is dialing out. Doesn't look like a transfer is taking place. Do I hit the hard reset switch to force a download? What do I need to do? Not trying to hijack the thread, just thought it might help OP as well.

[ControlsAreCool]

No I was having the same problem. I had to connect to the NCM with WNCSetup and change the archive port from 2 to 3. Make sure as stated earlier that all of the databases are the current, otherwise you are not going to get very far.

Also make sure your PC is setup with a ncdirect connection.

As far as I could get by reading the literature. I believe in order for this to work you also have to set the archive node and gate to 1. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[smokeout]

Ok, so I finally got the thing to setup on direct connection. I am using a null cable on port 3 and the tx rx lights are both lit. They will light and go out simultaneously every 45 sec or so. The PMI is continually saying waiting for connection. It will not connect to wncsetup. Any ideas?

[freddy-b]

You have no .net compiled.

[smokeout]

net.ddl? I have never attempted to connect to a NCM before. Never had the need. Please treat me like a moron. Hehe. I opened the net.ddl file and it is setup for a dial up connection. Do I need to compile another ddl for direct connect? What am I sposed to do next? TIA.

[Cagey57]

This could get real crappy real fast. Be careful.

The understatement of the week !

If you can get the NC to recognize your PC that's the first step.

Guess, the NET.ddl file you are using is ok but you need to get your Global.ddl file straight.

Make sure that your PC (or Laptop) has the database at the correct rev.

First decompile (unddl) the archive BUT copy any *.ddl or *.und and *.bas file to another folder (directory), FIRST. If you have no errors (in the *.und files) all you have to do is get the NC to connect and everything else should fall into place.

Another thing, make sure that you run prepfor to set your path statements on the PC. If it's rev 10 or before it's a dos command rev 11 or above it's a program under the "Metasys" program group.

On a good day with all the stars in the right position and your Karma in perfect balance and you do everything right this is gonna take you a good hour. On a bad day this could run into a couple of days.



I honestly hope you're not working with rev 10 or older, that is a PITA !

"Be careful out there"

Remember Controls Cause Insanity !

[smokeout]

rev 9.01. Its prep'd correctly. It actually has Win95 PrepFor.

[Cagey57]

I'm sorry !


Archnet or ethernet ? I can't remember if 9.01 supported ethernet.

Make sure that the NetName in the NC is exactly the same as the NetName in the archive DB and your global file.

Once you get the NC to connect it should be all over and done with !

I will try to remember more but it may be a while . 9.01 was Y2K era ! There was also a "B" Patch for it.

I hate it when I can't remember stuff.

[smokeout]

dial-up, nothing has changed. It tries to dial out to get db but that is where it stops. Will not access network. Lost power supply and replaced. I am guessing that whatever took out power supply goobersmootched something else. I am trying to direct connect to it just to eliminate variable.

[smokeout]

do i need to compile a new net.ddl with direct connect settings? If so, what is the syntax?

[Cagey57]

here is an example :


@NET


PORT "COM1", 2, 19200

NET "NETNAME", "",
NCDIRECT

No offense, but if you goof you are going to have a big problem on your hands.

go to the JCI web site and find the "DDL Programmer's Manual".

[smokeout]

I actually got one step ahead of ya. I got the manual, all 242 pages of it. I have read a bit of it so far. It is saying that i need to compile the four files in order. I would assume that would be for a new NCM. If I just modified the net.ddl with the proper syntax would I have to change anything else? Where else would these parameters have to be changed? I will read manual over weekend. I appreciate all the help.

[Cagey57]

You can compile only the net file which sets the connection method for the PC running the PMI.

Don't read the whole manual your head will explode or you will turn into a turnip (maybe) start at the "Reference" section read for 15 minutes the get a cold drink (70 proof) and call reinforcements. You will likely drive yourself insane if you keep trying to figure this out.

[smokeout]

Dude, I am so far past insane. Hehehe. I dont think there is term for how far gone my mind is. Thats what I deserve for working on 35 different control systems. I love this crap. I won't turn away a challenge. Thanks a bunch.

[Cagey57]

I just reee-membered !

using ncsetup set the archive source to the same subnet and node as the NCM and port 3 (where you connect the PC or laptop with the PMI Database).

If that don't get it....well.....call somebody who cares and call it a day ! LOL

The truth of the matter is, controls are driving you sane and you don't know how to deal with it ! :eek2:


Good luck

[smokeout]

ok, i was able to connect to ncm. It is asking for a nc download, but that option is grayed out. Global download is selectable, but I would assume thats different. Do I need to reset NCM fom NCSetup or have I garblesnarfed something to disable NC download option?



Follow above for archive address and then reload ncm from ncsetup?

[exwtk]

If you are connected to the NCM through Direct Connect and you want to download the NCM through this connection then you have to make sure that your direct connection is set as the archive.
To check this, goto NOVRAM and for the archive set the port at Port 3, Gate and Node of the archive should be the same as Gate and Node of the NCM.
Once you connect, the NCM should initiate the download..... You can not force a download from the menu.

[smokeout]

I went ahead and pulled the trigger earlier today and forced download from ncsetup. ITS ALIVE! Hehe, I sure do appreciate the help on this. It wasn't near as bad as I had feared. Maybe we can get 1 or two more years out of it. Again I appreciate it.