One Possible Solution

[engineerdave]

So they say Medicare / Medicaid is 'underfunded' something like 34 trillion.

If that's true, then I say one way to significantly change those numbers is to adopt the following changes:

1) Permanently disqualify ALL non U.S. citizens.

2) Only those citizens who actually served their country would qualify. These would of course include all military veterans, but would also apply to all law enforcement agencies, medical workers, K-12 teachers. I'm sure there are others as well.

Retired real estate agents or tv/radio pundits who have no idea which hand to salute with need not apply.

[Hugh B]

I would rather see the government totally get out of the medical and social security business. No more Medicare or Medicaid and no more Social Security checks beginning immediately.

I will take care of myself, thank you! No need to ask me to pay the taxes anymore either. I can use the money for my own medical plan and retirement.

[Jwise]

How can you determine who serves their country? Anyone who works benefits society in one way or another. I agree non citizens should be disqualified. However to say one groups serves the country while another does not opens up a can of worms one could not put the lid back on. Teachers serve the country teaching the young. Factory workers make the desks for the students to sit in. Aren't the factory workers important also? What about the printers who manufacture the books; the land owners who pay for the building. Aren't the farmers who feed us serving the country? .......just food for thought

[Hugh B]

The solution is this; Those who earn it get to spend it.... Get government out of the business of taking my hard earned money and creating giveaway programs (redistribution programs) called Medicare and Social Security.

All us to keep what we earned and get out of our lives...

[fixacr]

The solution is this; Those who earn it get to spend it.... Get government out of the business of taking my hard earned money and creating giveaway programs (redistribution programs) called Medicare and Social Security.

All us to keep what we earned and get out of our lives...

Talking personal responsibility to a liberal is the equivalent of holding a crucifix in front of a vampire.

[jmac00]

Talking personal responsibility to a liberal is the equivalent of holding a crucifix in front of a vampire.

:bsing:::DD:

[printer2]

The solution is this; Those who earn it get to spend it.... Get government out of the business of taking my hard earned money and creating giveaway programs (redistribution programs) called Medicare and Social Security.

All us to keep what we earned and get out of our lives...

Now would you just cut off everyone cold turkey or would you have a reduction of spending over time? What do you say to all the old people that were counting on these programs? Should they just go out get a job asking if you want fries with that?

[jmac00]

Now would you just cut off everyone cold turkey or would you have a reduction of spending over time? What do you say to all the old people that were counting on these programs? Should they just go out get a job asking if you want fries with that?


YES!!!! cut them off. if they're counting on these programs, they are all ready a burden to the system. :patriot:

[printer2]

YES!!!! cut them off. if they're counting on these programs, they are all ready a burden to the system. :patriot:

So what do they do to pay the rent, feed themselves? Do they walk the streets, hold you up, jack your car?

Right now you have 10% unemployment, what will happen if all these people need work? You have no excess of jobs now?

If they work for peanuts what do you think that will do to your wage? Would there not be a downward pressure on them, deflation due to less money in the economy. Businesses seeing less profit (less money out there) end up scaling back production, less employees.

Oh yeah, you will be able to pay less tax because the government will not have to pay for these programs. Or the government can take the same amount of tax but pay down its debts.

Which do you choose? Short term gain, less tax and a higher standard of living for those that are working? Or long term gain for the country, namely pay off your debt?

[ga-hvac-tech]

So what do they do to pay the rent, feed themselves? Do they walk the streets, hold you up, jack your car?

Right now you have 10% unemployment, what will happen if all these people need work? You have no excess of jobs now?

If they work for peanuts what do you think that will do to your wage? Would there not be a downward pressure on them, deflation due to less money in the economy. Businesses seeing less profit (less money out there) end up scaling back production, less employees.

Oh yeah, you will be able to pay less tax because the government will not have to pay for these programs. Or the government can take the same amount of tax but pay down its debts.

Which do you choose? Short term gain, less tax and a higher standard of living for those that are working? Or long term gain for the country, namely pay off your debt?

Simple... with less taxes there will be $$$ to boost business... and those folks can 'get a job'... what a novel idea... work for a living.

[printer2]

Simple... with less taxes there will be $$$ to boost business... and those folks can 'get a job'... what a novel idea... work for a living.

Which jobs? You are short them already. So I guess you do not care to pay off the government debt.

[jmac00]

So what do they do to pay the rent, feed themselves? Do they walk the streets, hold you up, jack your car?

Send them to Canada. Car jacking in America id a felony, you can shoot the perpetrator whether they are armed or not :patriot:


Right now you have 10% unemployment, what will happen if all these people need work? You have no excess of jobs now?

they are probably under the table now, so they are not even on the unemployment radar. we will have excess jobs, right after we send all the illegal aliens to Canada


If they work for peanuts what do you think that will do to your wage? Would there not be a downward pressure on them, deflation due to less money in the economy. Businesses seeing less profit (less money out there) end up scaling back production, less employees.

Less money in the economy, your kidding right? NObama is printing money so fast they can't keep bearings in the printing machine


Oh yeah, you will be able to pay less tax because the government will not have to pay for these programs. Or the government can take the same amount of tax but pay down its debts.

doesn't matter, the government is going to raise taxes to pay for there social programs.........we're screwed


Which do you choose? Short term gain, less tax and a higher standard of living for those that are working? Or long term gain for the country, namely pay off your debt?


I'd rather pay off the debt:patriot:

[printer2]

Nice to see you can give a serious answer to legitimate questions.

[coolperfect]

I would rather see the government totally get out of the medical and social security business. No more Medicare or Medicaid and no more Social Security checks beginning immediately.

I will take care of myself, thank you! No need to ask me to pay the taxes anymore either. I can use the money for my own medical plan and retirement.Will you still be saying that if all your gold goes to lets say $200 an oz. you can always work till your 90.

[jmac00]

Will you still be saying that if all your gold goes to lets say $200 an oz. you can always work till your 90.


at this rate, I'll be working til I'm 90 anyway? :patriot:

[ga-hvac-tech]

Which jobs? You are short them already. So I guess you do not care to pay off the government debt.

The important thing is momentum in the economy...

Take out too much $$$ for taxes, the momentum slows down... leave the $$$ in the hands of the business owners, the momentum rises. As the momentum rises, more folks work, more folks spend their wages. Then more taxes are paid and the debt goes down. You and I do not get out of debt by running up CC debt... the government does not either... even thought they can (theoretically) print money... The result is price inflation... everyone looses in that market.

There, that was not so hard to understand, was it...

[coolperfect]

Yea, everyone has a lot of great ideas untill it is their turn to take part in the idea

[jmac00]

I'm going to help the economy by retiring, I'm going to move to my vacation property and live off the land :patriot:

[printer2]

The important thing is momentum in the economy...

Take out too much $$$ for taxes, the momentum slows down... leave the $$$ in the hands of the business owners, the momentum rises. As the momentum rises, more folks work, more folks spend their wages. Then more taxes are paid and the debt goes down. You and I do not get out of debt by running up CC debt... the government does not either... even thought they can (theoretically) print money... The result is price inflation... everyone looses in that market.

There, that was not so hard to understand, was it...

The big problem is people spend the money, but where does it go? If it goes overseas for the newest ipod or flat screen then you still have a drain on the economy.

[royc]

YES!!!! cut them off. if they're counting on these programs, they are all ready a burden to the system. :patriot:

I'm going to try to be nice about this, and I'm assuming your just joking.

I been working full time since the age of 15, I was forced to pay in to this Socialistic Security system, on the threat if I dont, I will go to jail. So now when I turned 65, I wasnt even going to take any money, I got a notice form the military saying unless I apply for medicare B, I would not be eligible for Tricare and would have no medical.

So please tell me your joking, otherwise I have only two words for you, and it aint "love you"....

Roy

[jmac00]

I'm going to try to be nice about this, and I'm assuming your just joking.

I been working full time since the age of 15, I was forced to pay in to this Socialistic Security system, on the threat if I dont, I will go to jail. So now when I turned 65, I wasnt even going to take any money, I got a notice form the military saying unless I apply for medicare B, I would not be eligible for Tricare and would have no medical.

So please tell me your joking, otherwise I have only two words for you, and it aint "love you"....

Roy

I was talking about illegal aliens and foreigners and people who have been cheating the system..........NOT people that have been working all there lives and "paying into the system" maybe I should have been more clear (or drinking less :eek2:.:patriot:

[engineerdave]

So what do they do to pay the rent, feed themselves? Do they walk the streets, hold you up, jack your car?

Right now you have 10% unemployment, what will happen if all these people need work? You have no excess of jobs now?

If they work for peanuts what do you think that will do to your wage? Would there not be a downward pressure on them, deflation due to less money in the economy. Businesses seeing less profit (less money out there) end up scaling back production, less employees.

Oh yeah, you will be able to pay less tax because the government will not have to pay for these programs. Or the government can take the same amount of tax but pay down its debts.

Which do you choose? Short term gain, less tax and a higher standard of living
for those that are working? Or long term gain for the country, namely pay off your debt?

I guess it's my hope that the public outcry will be loud enough finally force laws on Tort Reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. These changes should bring medical costs down, bringing insurance costs down, hopefully making them affordable to anyone with a job. Kinda like the old days.

[royc]

I was talking about illegal aliens and foreigners and people who have been cheating the system..........NOT people that have been working all there lives and "paying into the system" maybe I should have been more clear (or drinking less :eek2:.:patriot:

Well then my reply is...






PROST




:pileon:

Roy

[printer2]

I guess it's my hope that the public outcry will be loud enough finally force laws on Tort Reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. These changes should bring medical costs down, bringing insurance costs down, hopefully making them affordable to anyone with a job. Kinda like the old days.

A good first step.

I found an interesting article by Newt Gingrich on doctors and hospitals that do not have the patient interest at heart. I think I see why the last health bill was 2000 pages.

http://www.allhealth.org/briefingmaterials/GingrichWashingtonPost-24.doc

http://www.allhealth.org/briefing_detail.asp?bi=72

[ga-hvac-tech]

I guess it's my hope that the public outcry will be loud enough finally force laws on Tort Reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. These changes should bring medical costs down, bringing insurance costs down, hopefully making them affordable to anyone with a job. Kinda like the old days.

I guess I have been a bit busy lately... how is this going to bring down costs???

Seems to me there are 4 major cell phone providers... and national competition did not do much for costs... until business got so scarce they started competing for the FEW customers left.

There there are the 3 providers of TV... (Cable, Dish, Direct)... National competition does not seem to do much for that market either...

I do think tort reform would help some... except that many of the suits against doctors are truly because of bad medical practice...

What causes prices to drop is a drop in demand... And a recessin is a wonderful thing to cause that.

Oh, one more thing: Seems to me if we all chose ONLY major/catastrophic insurance... and did the flu, glasses, dentist, etc out of pocket... costs would go WAAAY down.

[engineerdave]

Those industries you cite are in all likelihood guilty of Price Fixing and probably ought to be investigated.

I stand by Free Market 101..... Competition drives costs down.

[printer2]

Those industries you cite are in all likelihood guilty of Price Fixing and probably ought to be investigated.

I stand by Free Market 101..... Competition drives costs down.

And the last thing the medical community will allow is a free market. It is not in their best interest.

[royc]

I guess I have been a bit busy lately... how is this going to bring down costs???

Seems to me there are 4 major cell phone providers... and national competition did not do much for costs... until business got so scarce they started competing for the FEW customers left.

There there are the 3 providers of TV... (Cable, Dish, Direct)... National competition does not seem to do much for that market either...

I do think tort reform would help some... except that many of the suits against doctors are truly because of bad medical practice...

What causes prices to drop is a drop in demand... And a recessin is a wonderful thing to cause that.

Oh, one more thing: Seems to me if we all chose ONLY major/catastrophic insurance... and did the flu, glasses, dentist, etc out of pocket... costs would go WAAAY down.

Those are all called "Choices", you do not have to have a cell phone or television, you can decline to use it.

Its called...What Traffic Can Bear". All businesses operate under it or should, but I have to admit that socialism is alive and well in this country now, and many think such services are privileges.

My customers dont call me cause I demand it, they call me cause I give them value for my services, and they reward me with values I need to keep in business.

Roy

[ccut]

Most of us have seen abuse of gov. programs and hearing of a desire to grow the gov. means more abuse. We have WAY too many people wanting to take out of a kitty they never want to pay into. It can't work.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Those industries you cite are in all likelihood guilty of Price Fixing and probably ought to be investigated.

I stand by Free Market 101..... Competition drives costs down.

Seems to me competition only works when there is little regulation and truly free markets...

And yes; the point of the examples above was to show that 'some forms of competition' are not really true competition at all...

Time to re-think the idea of free markets until we find WHY these markets mentioned above do not lower prices?

[printer2]

Seems to me competition only works when there is little regulation and truly free markets...

And yes; the point of the examples above was to show that 'some forms of competition' are not really true competition at all...

Time to re-think the idea of free markets until we find WHY these markets mentioned above do not lower prices?

You know what would bring prices down? Get rid of the idea that health care should be perfect.

Licensing requirements for doctors? Who needs it. That is just a way for doctors to limit the amount of people practicing which just allows them to drive up their salaries. Because of the high salaries the universities charge more to train doctors. A veterinarian has to learn the same skills and yet they are still reasonably priced.

Or how about three or four licensing bodies for each discipline, doctors, nurses, anesthetists... So one has looser requirements than the other, you can pay for the level of quality you get.

And then there is hospital supplies. Hospital equipment costs an arm and a leg. Drug prices are just as bad. Import the stuff from China, or India and watch prices come down.

The market will sort out the price if you really open up the field.

[printer2]

Most of us have seen abuse of gov. programs and hearing of a desire to grow the gov. means more abuse. We have WAY too many people wanting to take out of a kitty they never want to pay into. It can't work.

Not arguing with you. But if you are going to provide a service you have to realize you have to pay for it. If you are going to wind it down you can not just stop it in a day without there being consequences.

[jmac00]

You know what would bring prices down? Get rid of the idea that health care should be perfect.

Licensing requirements for doctors? Who needs it. That is just a way for doctors to limit the amount of people practicing which just allows them to drive up their salaries. Because of the high salaries the universities charge more to train doctors. A veterinarian has to learn the same skills and yet they are still reasonably priced.

Or how about three or four licensing bodies for each discipline, doctors, nurses, anesthetists... So one has looser requirements than the other, you can pay for the level of quality you get.

And then there is hospital supplies. Hospital equipment costs an arm and a leg. Drug prices are just as bad. Import the stuff from China, or India and watch prices come down.

The market will sort out the price if you really open up the field.


your assuming China and India will play by the same rules and on an even playing field. The real world doesn't work that way. :patriot:

[ga-hvac-tech]

You know what would bring prices down? Get rid of the idea that health care should be perfect.

Licensing requirements for doctors? Who needs it. That is just a way for doctors to limit the amount of people practicing which just allows them to drive up their salaries. Because of the high salaries the universities charge more to train doctors. A veterinarian has to learn the same skills and yet they are still reasonably priced.

Or how about three or four licensing bodies for each discipline, doctors, nurses, anesthetists... So one has looser requirements than the other, you can pay for the level of quality you get.

And then there is hospital supplies. Hospital equipment costs an arm and a leg. Drug prices are just as bad. Import the stuff from China, or India and watch prices come down.

The market will sort out the price if you really open up the field.

You have some good ideas Printer, however I think a workable solution is somewhere in the middle... Case in point: The melamine in Chinese powdered milk issue...

This is a little off topic, but here is a curious part of the health care mess: The drug companies are trying as hard as they can to completely destroy the 'alternative' or 'natural' (read that vitamins, herbs, and homeopathics) industry... Why??? because they want to control ALL healthcare so they can jack up prices even more...

If I choose to take Enchanasia (sp) instead of a prescription drug for a common cold... that is my business, NOT the business of a drug company. And I do not need a government agency telling me what is safe and what is not... especially given that folks have been taking that same herb for thousands of years... Why would it all of a sudden be unsafe... Just because some government person (who is for sale to the hightest bidder) says it is???

Case in point: Viox killed thousands of folks over half a decade before it was pulled from the marekts... and with about 10 minutes og Googling one can find proof that everyone knew. But let Triptophane (a natural substance) cause just one death... and there was an our-roar (by the drug companies) that it should be removed from the market...
Something smells here...

The problem is back-room deals... What I think many of my friends who saw the video's believe, is that there would be hope a government 'for sale' will be changed to a 'government that keeps the playing field honest and level'...

So tell me Printer... do you think an honest and level playing field is a good thing for a government to GUARANTEE?