Furnace Fan Will Not Stop - Please Help

[cmr_3168]

I was installing a new thermostat. I had to run a 7 conductor wire so that I could have a common. My system is a Amana Distinctions Heat Pump with a gas back-up (aux). When I put the new stat on (Debonair 400) it would not leave the off mode. I could not get it to go to heat or cool. I got concerned so I went to hook the old stat back up. When I removed the new stat, the fan on the furnace kicked on with nothing connected. I immediately hooked up the old stat and it will not shut off. The unit is not responding to the stat. I removed the fan wire at the control panel (G) for the thermostat and the furnace - nothing happened. The unit will not heat or cool either. The only way to stop the furnace is at the breaker (I do not have a switch at the unit).

What could be the problem?

[Stamas]

Please no DIY posts. See Rules.

You need to have someone look at it. Those T_stats bought at the Hardware stores end up costing you more than you bargained for.

[troutfly]

What could be the problem?

a mirror could help with this....

[meBNme]

You shorted out your system, there will be parts to replace. Have a pro come and repair the damage done, and then have them install a new hoeywell or white-Rodgers T-stat.

The fan running is a safety feature for situations when there is something fried and a short has occured.

Further damage is very likely unless repairs are made by a trained, experienced proffesional.

[meBNme]

is that ^^^^ OK Stamas?


OK

[CynicX]

You should have never messed with the stat with the power on the system. Even if we were allowed to give you DIY solutions there is just to much and could get too technical via the internet. Unfortunately the only SOLUTION is to have a professional look at it. They can verify the new stat is compatible and install it for you too. Just make sure you tell them on the phone what you want to be done prior to having them come out, some places dont like using a stat they didnt supply.

[seatonheating]

These situations sure are sweet justice :).

Home Depot, you can mess it up, we can help!

[troutfly]

how many of these do you see in a year........

[Some Dude]

how many of these do you see in a year........

Hundreds, most are good folks just trying to get by, last month we had one from cinci crying and begging for help who never even answered emails,or called when we offered to help, guess she got what she wanted and kept on going.

[CynicX]

how many of these do you see in a year........

I dont get too many. 10 or so. What I get a lot of is someone will buy a thermostat, unbox it, read the directions, then call me to install it.

[cmr_3168]

Thanks for the reponses. I have an HVAC tech out to look at the unit tomorrow. The reason I changed the stat is because the original stat was a HoneywellFocusPro 5000. It seemed like a great stat except you can not change the "deadband" on the stat. If I set the temp to 68 degrees heating mode, it would cycle on and off every 5 minutes. My house never got to 67 degrees. The internal setpoit was like a 1/2degree.

My bills are skyrocketing with the constat starting and stopping of the unit. I am used to the thermostat calling for heat when it drops 2 degrees. There is no setting in this stat to change this. Any thoughts?

[CynicX]

^^^

Have the equipment checked.

What is controlling your dual fuel? That thermostat does not have dual fuel capability. If there is a controller then thats not a problem. Now if you are running the furnace and the heat pump at the same time and the heat pump is shutting off due to high pressure (from the furnace) expect it to have high bills...

[cmr_3168]

It is a heat pump thermostat. The reversing valve is wired to the 1st stage of heat(O/B/W1), stage 2 (W2) is the furnace for backup heating.

There is a controller on the outside of the unit that has two relays or transformers on it. There is a condesing unit side, furncae side and thermostat side.

[Some Dude]

Thanks for the reponses. I have an HVAC tech out to look at the unit tomorrow. The reason I changed the stat is because the original stat was a HoneywellFocusPro 5000. It seemed like a great stat except you can not change the "deadband" on the stat. If I set the temp to 68 degrees heating mode, it would cycle on and off every 5 minutes. My house never got to 67 degrees. The internal setpoit was like a 1/2degree.

My bills are skyrocketing with the constat starting and stopping of the unit. I am used to the thermostat calling for heat when it drops 2 degrees. There is no setting in this stat to change this. Any thoughts?

Believe it or not a good humidifier would make you more comfortable.

[beenthere]

The focus pro wasn't set up correctly then. If it was cycling that often.
Or, your heat pump is oversized.

[cmr_3168]

I have been through the setup of the thermostat. It promises a +- 1 degree comfort. I recently wired the system to operate convential (gas furnance) and took away the heat pump in the colder months. When my themrostat is set on 68 heating, the unit kicks on and runs for a couple of minutes until the stat is satisfied. When it turns off, a couple of minutes latter it kicks back on, the thremostat still says 68 degrees. Why?

The stat should say 67 dgress for it to kick back on. It acts as though the setpoint is +- .5 degree. This causes the unit to cycle on and off a lot trying to maintian a less than 1 dgree setpoint.

Thermostat where you can set this degree differential allows you to make the system run more for a longer period and be off less.

Any thoughts on this

[beenthere]

A 1° thermostat will turn on the heat when the temp drops .5°, and shut it off when the temp is .5° above set temp.

Its set up wrong. Or your equipment is oversized. or both.

[cmr_3168]

How does the system being oversized affect the drop in temperature to only 1 or .5 degree. The oversized system would just make the cycle on time shorter, not make the cycle off time less.

[beenthere]

Actually it does. Furniture doesn't absorb heat as quick as air. So it doesn't warm up the .5° in the short on time. So after the furnace shuts off. the furniture is still absorbing heat. And it takes that heat from the air. Which cools the air, and makes the thermostat have to run the furnace again sooner.

[cmr_3168]

Did not think of it that way. I appreciate the help

[wptski]

A 1° thermostat will turn on the heat when the temp drops .5°, and shut it off when the temp is .5° above set temp.

Its set up wrong. Or your equipment is oversized. or both.
Doesn't that depend on the thermostat used?

I have a RobertShaw, almost installed. The manual states that a 1 degree setting means that it maintaines 1 degree above setpoint to 1 degree below setpoint or stated as +/-1 degree.

[beenthere]

Thats what I call a 2° thermostat.
Temp can vary by 2°.

Honeywell is a 1° thermostat, temp only varies by 1°.


I have a RobertShaw

You have my condolences. J/K

[SBKold]

A nicer Honeywell thermostst (VisionPRO and Presige Models) have a adjustable Cycle Per hour setting. You could limit it to one cycle per hour and that will give it more time off, then when its time for another cycle it will have more work to do.

[wptski]

Thats what I call a 2° thermostat.
Temp can vary by 2°.

Honeywell is a 1° thermostat, temp only varies by 1°.
If Honeywell claims +/- 1 degree that's what it should do. I doubt if accuracy is ever stated as you think.


You have my condolences. J/K
A sarcastic note?

[beenthere]

If Honeywell claims +/- 1 degree that's what it should do. I doubt if accuracy is ever stated as you think.

Honeywell doesn't say +-1°. They say 1°. And that is what it does. Not a 2° swing like some.

A sarcastic note?

Yep. thats why i said just kidding.

[wptski]

Yep. thats why i said just kidding.
What model of Honeywell? I didn't see that mentioned!

Whoops! I missed the J/K meaning!!

[beenthere]

Look at the 8000 line and the IAQ

[wptski]

Look at the 8000 line and the IAQ
Okay, I did. What does it say here about the VisionPro 8000? http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/thermostats/visionpro_8000/visionpro_8000_feature.html

[Some Dude]

Okay, I did. What does it say here about the VisionPro 8000? http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/thermostats/visionpro_8000/visionpro_8000_feature.html

This was my favorite part right here.


Honeywell's VisionPRO 8000 is effortless to use. Its intuitive logic and menu-driven programming respond to your choices and schedule for optimal comfort and energy savings. VisionPRO offers you top-of-the-line features like touchscreen interaction, a real-time clock, and a large, easy-to-read backlit display.

Sheer poetry.

[beenthere]

Okay, I did. What does it say here about the VisionPro 8000? http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/thermostats/visionpro_8000/visionpro_8000_feature.html


Not responsible for their typo's.



The 8000 line and IAQ DO NOT let the temp drop 1°F, and then over shoot set temp by 1°F.

[beenthere]

Here, read what Honeywell told this guy.
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=5668732&postcount=1

[SJProwler]

Not responsible for their typo's.



The 8000 line and IAQ DO NOT let the temp drop 1°F, and then over shoot set temp by 1°F.

Nope, to have a thermostat that sloppy at temp and comfort control it would have to say Lux or Hunter on it.

The Hunter "High End Home Depot" programmable that was in my brothers house had a full degree swing either direction from set temp. Talk about uncomfortable. Replaced with a Honeywell FocusPro 6000, now you never notice temp changes.

I put the Hunter in my garage, set all of the programs at 40, that way every 6 hours it resets to 40 degrees in case I forget to turn the heat back down. I wouldn't recommend a Hunter for anything else though.

[beenthere]

[QUOTE=SJProwler;5669292 I wouldn't recommend a Hunter for anything else though.[/QUOTE]


:LOL:


But they make great ceiling fans.

[wptski]

Not responsible for their typo's.



The 8000 line and IAQ DO NOT let the temp drop 1°F, and then over shoot set temp by 1°F.
Either Honeywell's literature or tech support is wrong! I wouldn't want one that works like that either. That's why I got the RobertShaw as it can't be set +/- 3 degrees and has a ON/OFF time programmable fan mode too!

In a vert hot climate that +/-.5 degree would probably be overriden by short cycle prevention during cooling.

[beenthere]

Set up right. No worries about short cycling.

Unless the system is ovdersized.

But. Some people like new things to work like old things. So your Robertshaw is probably best if you want old time operation.

[djastram]

My favorite "Home Depot purchased stat" story has a lady that changed the stat herself. When she couldn't get it working, she called us. She had all the wires hooked up to the correct terminals, except the red wire which was tucked back into the wall.

I have seen a lot of people having problems with LUX brand stats. Even if the "change batt" indicator is off, I put new batteries in for troubleshooting. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

I had a lux a couple years ago. I got woke up one night by my wife cause it was 47 in the house. Two nights later she woke me up again, it was 88.

I have an IAQ now.

[wptski]

Set up right. No worries about short cycling.

Unless the system is ovdersized.

But. Some people like new things to work like old things. So your Robertshaw is probably best if you want old time operation.
I have a Lennox system installed in 1981, that's pretty old. What I wanted was the ON/OFF time programmable fan mode(not just CIRC mode) and the differential settings which was limited with the White Rodgers I now have.

[beenthere]

Honeywell doesn't have anything like that in that programable set up.

Some of the less reliable stats do. but, you might have to replace it every 2 years.

Hunter has some very adjustable units. but, they aren't known for reliability.

[wptski]

Honeywell doesn't have anything like that in that programable set up.

Some of the less reliable stats do. but, you might have to replace it every 2 years.

Hunter has some very adjustable units. but, they aren't known for reliability.
I finished connecting my Robertshaw 9725i2. The default of +/-1 degree without really watching it seemed to cycle too often. I set to +/-1.5 degree at a setpoint of 72 degrees and watched it closely.

It turnes ON at 71 degrees and OFF at 72.5 degrees with the display reading in tenths. It sure doesn't work as described but sure does like you stated! I thought if it turned ON at 71 degrees, it would go OFF at 73 degrees, wrong!! Not what I expected but much better than my White-Rodgers with more features.

[cmr_3168]

I got the fan to stop. The low voltage fuse on the control panel had failed. I replaced the fuse and now the fan has stopped and is operating properly. This does not help with the unit continually cycling, but I have heat again!

As far as the stat goes, it seems as though the honeywell stats are becoming the default stats. Even totaline makes a model exactly the same. We tried that stat out to see if it may be calibrated better. The unit still cycles too often. I have put thought into it being oversized, however the new system includes my basement as well, unlike the old system. Plus after time, all the furniture will eventually get up to temp, so that theory would not work well.

I tuely feel that the 1 degree stat in an older house is a waste of energy and hard on the fan. I am still going to look into another stat that has differntial that can be adjusted.

[meBNme]

The totaline stat IS a honeywell. They made an agreement with HW to put thier own names on em.

That way the whole system, from outside unit to T-stat is all "Carrier" (or totaline)