Wierd problem, Gas furnace....IDEAS??

[GrodyPhysics]

Hey guys I'm new here...first year doing service in the field. I'm in new jersey, do mostly gas heat. We had this odd problem on a york unit today...

When we got there, the board was blinking, indicating pressure switch opened. Reset unit, fired up and observed sequence of ops. No problems, for about 10 minutes... After ten minutes the pressure switch would open...Amps were fine on the Draft inducer, sanded flame sensor....ok...so i replaced pressure switch and started her up and went for a cup of coffee next door...I returned..SAME thing happend, cept the board said system in lockout due to retries....I figured ok...its probly the board being wierd....i replaced, restarted and watched....Same damn thing again....at this point i'm stumped...i went to the roof and listend for gurgling water blocking the path of the exhaust...nothing, fresh-air is ok too...Replaced the Draft inducer....its not that either....no hose blockage...no wierd sounds...I DUNNO!


what we wound up doing was getting a sequencer and hooking the pstats line side wire to the coil, jumped it to line of the contacts and load side followed the rest of the safety circuit, common of the coil went to ground.

Anybody got some ideas? Any help would be Greatly appreciated....I'm a n00b

[amd]

See http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=38

Think condensate.


I figured ok...its probly the board being wierd

The board was trying to tell you something.

[Some Dude]

Oh boy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[beenthere]

So you replaced a lot of parts for nothing. And didn't test anything. And left a furnace running in an UNSAFE manor. Since a pressure switch is a SAFETY device.

What you should do. Is go there. And undo that unsafe work you did. And have either your companies senior tech go there and show you how to work on a furnace.
Or have that place call another company.

When asking for help. Model number either serial or age of equipment is valuable.


PS: Use a manometer.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Wow! Who is paying for all those parts?

[clarkie]

You have to post what model of York furnace you'll having a problem with. I recently had a service issue with one of York's 97% fully modulating gas furnaces and I resolved it, sounds similiar to what problem I had but I won't elaborate until I hear from you.

[Moose]

Beenthere is right. Your super/foreman/dispatcher should not have sent you there without supevision. You NEVER bypass safeties & leave the site...follow up with a senior tech -- get some training too. HVAC tools and knowing how to use them are a must for any tech.

[coolwhip]

Your fired!:eek2:

[saylor240]

Call customer before you go out there and discover there bodys cause the didnt wake up due to carbon monoxide poisoning......

[GrodyPhysics]

Ok, so let me get this out of the way...The company I work for is not the smartest company...we have one other tech and he's a lot better than me, he rarely gets stumped on a problem, furthermore, our boss only cares about money, (we do 95% installation and 5% service)and as far as buying the parts and not using them, we just re-use them. I'm new to this, don't have much experience and I am learning a lot as fast as I can. I realize that i'm retarded compared to most of you, I'm here to learn from you guys. I totally appreciate your feedback, I also agree that it was unsafe work, we are returning there tomorrow, Unit shut off again. Do any of you guys have a pretty good idea of what the problem is? I unfortunatley don't have the model#.

[heaterman]

If you are going to do this, you are going to have to get good fast. If the units you will be working on are predominantly one brand, all the better. If the boss is too cheap to pony up for the factory service manual, buy it yourself. #2, get your post count up and get pro status here quick. 90% sure your problem was / is condensate related and for God's sake, NEVER EVER over ride or modify a safety and leave it for ANY reason. Shame on you, don't let it happen again!!

[GrodyPhysics]

you have to understand though, I have to do what my boss says...he told me to do it...I'm an apprentice and I do mostly residential, all different brands. Bypassing a safety switch was a very stupid idea and I'll make sure that it doesnt happen again.

Question, how do i calculate what the draft inducer motor's exhaust cfm's will be? 120v, 2.25a motor, 3000 rpms, 2" pvc pipe angled for 10 ft then shoots vertical 2 stories.

[amd]

Question, how do i calculate what the draft inducer motor's exhaust cfm's will be? 120v, 2.25a motor, 3000 rpms, 2" pvc pipe angled for 10 ft then shoots vertical 2 stories.

Why would you need to? :confused:

[yellowirenut]

for legal reasons i would not bypass a safety because my boss told me to...its your ass out there remembered. Not only the company but u yourself can be liable for loss of property or life depending on local and state laws. Lawyers love guys who bypass designed safeties.

[trout lake]

this thing smells funny!

[GrodyPhysics]

Why would you need to? :confused:

Where would i find a condensate problem?

[Little NATE]

You need to Rewire everything Back like it was . Sounds like a water issue to me but i had york 90 % + furnace acting stupid and had to reverse the polarity on transformer after that all was fine.

[bigtime]

Make sure the vent is installed per the manufactures instructions. Im guessing it is not.

[heaterman]

Make sure the vent is installed per the manufactures instructions. Im guessing it is not.

Not sounding like it. Gotta remember this is in the residential open forum.

[GrodyPhysics]

The unit has been working fine for years, plus the pipe is pitched properly...i don't see how it could have water built up.

I'll try switching the transformer leads, i didnt move any wires around though...

[yellowirenut]

watch out for the compressed smoke

[ldmth44]

There are some serious issues being discussed here. I don't like the sound of this. This shouldn't be discussed on an OPEN forum as somebody may get hurt! If this is truly an HVAC tech, he needs to get post count up and apply for Pro status. He truly doesn't understand what he's doing. There is a strong liability involved here.

[clarkie]

You have to get the model number of the furnace, whether it is an 80% efficient or 90% Plus type furnace and reinstate what the original problem was as far as how many flashes on the board and what those flashes correspond to.
Stop stabbing in the dark and get these details.

[trout lake]

as i said, something smells funny

[amd]

-----------------------removed---------------------

[GrodyPhysics]

damn...tryin to learn here...what does "open" forum mean, why cant this be discussed? I posted here because i'm stuck and looking for a solution...this doesnt happen regularly, I've never done anything like this...i could not find the solution and I am merely asking for help so i can learn from this...ease up on me a little

[GrodyPhysics]

You have to get the model number of the furnace, whether it is an 80% efficient or 90% Plus type furnace and reinstate what the original problem was as far as how many flashes on the board and what those flashes correspond to.
Stop stabbing in the dark and get these details.

I'll get them tomorrow. Its a York, its no more than 80% thats for sure.

[GrodyPhysics]

There are some serious issues being discussed here. I don't like the sound of this. This shouldn't be discussed on an OPEN forum as somebody may get hurt! If this is truly an HVAC tech, he needs to get post count up and apply for Pro status. He truly doesn't understand what he's doing. There is a strong liability involved here.

How many posts do i need to apply for pro access?

[amd]

I'll get them tomorrow. Its a York, its no more than 80% thats for sure.

Your original post...

"i replaced, restarted and watched....Same damn thing again....at this point i'm stumped...i went to the roof and listend for gurgling water blocking the path of the exhaust...nothing, fresh-air is ok too"

The unit has been working fine for years, plus the pipe is pitched properly...i don't see how it could have water built up.

Huh?

80% eff furnaces don't take combustion air from outside and the combustion gasses shouldn't be cold enough (by a long shot) for condensation to form in the exhaust.

:rolleyes:

[GrodyPhysics]

80% eff furnaces don't take combustion air from outside and the combustion gasses shouldn't be cold enough (by a long shot) for condensation to form in the exhaust.

There is a fresh air pipe that is hooked to the unit, its been there for years. I said its not more than 80% I'm not sure about exact eff. I'll get all info tomorrow. Isnt there usually always condensation in the exhaust....? its like 30 degrees outside

[ccut]

It's obvious you're looking for guidance, try york tech support. your local york dealer should have a number for you. If you don't take anything else from the responses here, learn never to jump out safties. I'm surprised your boss went to the trouble to rig up that mess but couldn't give you better guidance. If you get the chance jump ship!

[dean59]

what is the size of the fresh air duct? if you are pulling more outside air,
than return air , this could cause condensation in the heat exchanger and the flue pipe.:eek2:

[osufan76]

GRODYPHYSICS---
I really feel sorry for guys like you. I am not trying to be mean. Your company has not trained you properly nor do they seem to care to train you. They seem to be one of those companies that have you train yourself at the expense of your time and the client's money(hopefully not their safety). I have only been doing this about seven years, but I have seen guys with more experience then me come to my company and loose their job or have to be re-trained due these same kind of issues. The only advice that I can give you is to find a better company to work for. I know that the economy sucks right now, but if you're young you'll be alright. Find a company that stresses on NATE certification and does constant training for their techs.

[amd]

There is a fresh air pipe that is hooked to the unit, its been there for years. I said its not more than 80% I'm not sure about exact eff. I'll get all info tomorrow. Isnt there usually always condensation in the exhaust....? its like 30 degrees outside

Moisture is a byproduct of combustion.

Cooling the products of combustion below the dewpoint (in this context, temp at which the gasses - CO2, O2, NOx, trace amount of CO are saturated with moisture) causes the moisture to condense.

In a 90%+ eff furnace with plastic venting, secondary heat exchanger, and condensate handling parts (trap, line, etc.), the combustion byproducts get cooled down to the point at which the moisture starts condensing - most of the condensation drains off; however, it's normal to find a little bit in the exhaust. The exhaust pipe is supposed to slope towards the furnace to prevent water from accumulating.

On the other hand, there should never be condensation in the exhaust of a properly operating/installed conventional or mid efficiency unit. (metal exhaust pipe, generally no fresh air intake, no secondary heat exchanger)

[GrodyPhysics]

GRODYPHYSICS---
I really feel sorry for guys like you. I am not trying to be mean. Your company has not trained you properly nor do they seem to care to train you. They seem to be one of those companies that have you train yourself at the expense of your time and the client's money(hopefully not their safety). I have only been doing this about seven years, but I have seen guys with more experience then me come to my company and loose their job or have to be re-trained due these same kind of issues. The only advice that I can give you is to find a better company to work for. I know that the economy sucks right now, but if you're young you'll be alright. Find a company that stresses on NATE certification and does constant training for their techs.

I'm trying to learn. Gotta start somewhere. I appreciate the advice, but to be honest, I don't care that you feel really sorry for "guys like me." I'm doing my best.. I apparently have made a horrible first impression on this forum. I realize I did something stupid, but thats why i joined this forum...so i can learn to prevent it...ease up on the blatant insults.

[richvacr]

Installed a York 90%about 2 years ago the first winter there were problems with the pressure switch. I found water in it. The switch was mounted downstream from the Draft inducer. I cleaned it out and remounted it upstream - tubing sloped down to inducer, ordered another sitch and no more problems.

Also had a Rhem with too small pvc vent 2" should have been 3". Supposedly worked for years till i was called. Corrected vent no further problems. If I recall correctly yorks up to 80k btu are 2" then 100k bth 3".

Another time had a mobile home condensing furnance where the vent was full of water. Live in a desert here but it was a wet time. Redid the vent so it sloped to the furnance.

Could also be the condensate drain line in plugged and backing up blocking the pressure tap.

One thing I did not see is cleaning the pressure tap and pulling the draft inducer and cleaning that.

hope something here helps.

As for switch polarity on transformer either someone else did that or I did but no longer remember what the problem was, but remember it was wired correctly i.e. not a factory opps. I worked but don't understand why. If anyone knows why I would like to know.

[richvacr]

As for the flame sense SANDING I understand is not the recommended method. Scotch-brite because it removes the surface but not effecting the metal - sanding abrades the metal leaving more surface area for crap to get into and eventually no more flame sense.

[osufan76]

I'm trying to learn. Gotta start somewhere. I appreciate the advice, but to be honest, I don't care that you feel really sorry for "guys like me." I'm doing my best.. I apparently have made a horrible first impression on this forum. I realize I did something stupid, but thats why i joined this forum...so i can learn to prevent it...ease up on the blatant insults.

I wasn't insulting you! I was insulting your company! I could have easily insulted you, but I didn't! I was giving you advice. Your company doesn't train you very well. First year in the field, you need to get your feet wet and that shouldn't be on "no heat" calls. You should be doing pm's or start-ups and learning the functions of the new equipment, also with the guidance of a more experienced tech. Now I really feel sorry for you, because the internet is your only resource and you're too stuborn to take some real life advice.

[clarkie]

Don't be a parts replacer, be a serviceman.
Sounds like the controls are doing what they are supposed to do. Now think, What does a presure switch monitor? Once you know how the furnace operates and protects itself, the better you are in dianosing the problem. Your boss sounds like a real A--hole. How can he do so much installs without having the proper service backup?
Contractors like this give the industry a bad name. I hope you get this problem resolved, then go looking to work for a better company that puts the time and effort into properly training their personnel.

[heaterman]

GP, start here http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=1241 you need 15 posts to apply for pro membership 30 to get into the marketing area plus you have to provide some documentation. After you are accepted, you will have full access to the technical areas where you will receive honest help (still gonna catch some crap). Apply here http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=116113

[trout lake]

HVAC 101. Wow. I don't mind helping a guy out if I have a solution I think might assist him. But really. Where is the line drawn? Isn't this sort of DIY stuff. "I'm stupid but I want to learn". Well now thats ok cause we work with stupid HVAC guy. Get real. Go to school. Never mind jumping the que. Earn your stripes. If it starts with this stuff it takes away from the credibility of the forum. The pleading is starting to wear thin

[saylor240]

Stupid HVAC Guy Could = Hurt, injured or death

Harmful dangerous chemicals
Carbon monoxide exposure
Electrocution
Explosive gases
Dog attacks
Other techs with happy trigger fingers
Irate homeowners
Your wife killing you because you work 95 hours a week
Working in downtown Atlanta
Falling off roof/ladder
Posting in the wrong forum
Crushed by large equipment
Slipping on the oil that came out of your vacuum pump
Closing off discharge on semi-hermetic compressor
Your helper, letting one rip in a tight attic after Mexican food lunch

Wow….this is a dangerous job…

[clarkie]

All right GrodyPhysics, you had all day today to get this problem dianosed and taken care of. My suspicion is you had an obstruction in one of the vent pipes. But I'm not there, only listening to your observations. So now you have to tell us, the forum, what conclusions did you come up with and did you get this client's house heat back on?

[heaterman]

The difference here is, he made the mistake of actually posting what he did, stupid or not. Tough crowd here. I'd be willing to bet that the ones who make the biggest noise about how "dumb" he was are guilty of some real brilliant moves themselves. Cast the first stone and all that............

[GrodyPhysics]

HVAC 101. Wow. I don't mind helping a guy out if I have a solution I think might assist him. But really. Where is the line drawn? Isn't this sort of DIY stuff. "I'm stupid but I want to learn". Well now thats ok cause we work with stupid HVAC guy. Get real. Go to school. Never mind jumping the que. Earn your stripes. If it starts with this stuff it takes away from the credibility of the forum. The pleading is starting to wear thin

You are such a lovely person. Condescending with an overtone of *******.


So we solved the problem. There was a dead bird in the exhaust!!!!!! HOW THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN HAPPEN HAHAHA!

Thanks for the help guys

[GrodyPhysics]

Now I really feel sorry for you, because the internet is your only resource and you're too stuborn to take some real life advice.

still really don't care. hahaha I have other resources...i don't know a lot of techs though....this is a forum full of you guys!!! brilliant

[GrodyPhysics]

Hey guys, just wanted to say. Sorry I pissed a lot of you off with my inexperience and lack of acknowledgment of certain things. I appreciate all of your advice, at least the non insulting stuff...TYTY I really am doing my best and i am already learning from you guys. Give me a chance, I'll get better.

[beenthere]

Check into getting a digital manometer.
By using it. You can see what pressure the pressure switch is seeing. And you can see where the problem is.

Using one would have eliminated a lot of your guess work.

Did you remove those 3 parts the customer didn't need and put the old ones back on(pressure switch, draft inducer, and control board).

[trout lake]

Hey guys, just wanted to say. Sorry I pissed a lot of you off with my inexperience and lack of acknowledgment of certain things. I appreciate all of your advice, at least the non insulting stuff...TYTY I really am doing my best and i am already learning from you guys. Give me a chance, I'll get better.

It's not meant to be insulting stuff!!!! It's simply the truth and if that's hard to take, so be it. But please....the pleading is wearing thin

[GrodyPhysics]

It's not meant to be insulting stuff!!!! It's simply the truth and if that's hard to take, so be it. But please....the pleading is wearing thin
I realize that hvac is you're entire life and all, I was just asking you as nicely as i could for you to offer me some valuable input, without coming off like a condescending a-hole. (I realize that you know absolutely everything there is to know) Damn dude, this is my first post on the forum ever. Reeeelaaax.

[GrodyPhysics]

Check into getting a digital manometer.
By using it. You can see what pressure the pressure switch is seeing. And you can see where the problem is.

Using one would have eliminated a lot of your guess work.

Did you remove those 3 parts the customer didn't need and put the old ones back on(pressure switch, draft inducer, and control board).

yeah, we put all the parts back...we just cut the pipe, pulled the semi-freshly dead bird out (still edible) and put a coupling on.

I will look into manometers...fieldpiece has a pretty good one

[beenthere]

You mean besides removing the dead bird.

[GrodyPhysics]

The lead tech did, we used a snake earlier today with a camera on it....it was like 10 feet from the dim. I had to leave to do a call. He JUST called me and told me he cut the pipe, it was originally in the wall, and were just gonna swap the feshair pipe to the exhaust till we could figure out a way to get the bird out...but he managed to pull it with the snake a couple feet and just cut and put ona coupling


srry for the edit beenthere

[JAH0983]

The lead tech did, we used a snake earlier today with a camera on it....it was like 10 feet from the dim. I had to leave to do a call. He JUST called me and told me he cut the pipe, it was originally in the wall, and were just gonna swap the feshair pipe to the exhaust till we could figure out a way to get the bird out...but he managed to pull it with the snake a couple feet and just cut and put ona coupling


srry for the edit beenthere

I'm not gonna bash you like some folks, i'm just curious-your lead tech was really gonna swap the fresh air pipe to the exhaust?

[trout lake]

Swap the pipes? This gets more bizzarr by the minute.

[beenthere]

How Bizarre (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIvAXrce_gg)

[trout lake]

How Bizarre (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIvAXrce_gg)

Good taste for an old guy :)

[beenthere]

Good taste for an old guy :)

Well.

After I back tracked you through your email. And got your SS number. And ran a credit check on you. I found out your about the same age as me.

Well, now I got this new credit card, so its off to the casino's now. ROFL. :D

[Gleng]

You need to use a manometer to check the draft.You may have condensate in hose,maybe loose connection or hole in tubing.you replaced everything else!!!

[stebs]

Swap the pipes? This gets more bizzarr by the minute.

i have a pretty good idea what he means by swapping the pipes and wont mention the details.

I do have to wonder how hard it is to get a bird out of one of those pipes. If you know where the bird is, why not just cut the pipe near it and pull the bird out. Sure it will cost all of a dollar or so for a pipe coupling and the amount of glue needed to seal it back up properly, but isnt it the simplist way to do it?

[osufan76]

A manometer should always be in your tool bag during this season! How the hell have you been checking gas pressure?

[GrodyPhysics]

well the pipe went into the wall and up two stories behind drywall, at first he could not snake the bird out cuzz it was inside the wall....so we were going to temporarily switch them (the place was closing) so we were gonna go back and try snaking it again, which he managed to do anyway.

[GrodyPhysics]

You need to use a manometer to check the draft.You may have condensate in hose,maybe loose connection or hole in tubing.you replaced everything else!!!
Well the lead tech has one, I don't have one personally, however...but i'm with him most of the time, I'm his helper most of the time, but when I go on calls by myself I have to do without it.

[heaterman]

If nothing else, pick up a cheepy wet one. better than nothing.

[trout lake]

i have a pretty good idea what he means by swapping the pipes and wont mention the details.

I do have to wonder how hard it is to get a bird out of one of those pipes. If you know where the bird is, why not just cut the pipe near it and pull the bird out. Sure it will cost all of a dollar or so for a pipe coupling and the amount of glue needed to seal it back up properly, but isnt it the simplist way to do it?

So you know what he means do you. So how about explaining your statement so we all get a clear picture. If you look back a couple of posts, you can see he says "we were going to swap them and come back later". This was apparently ok because the place was closing. I don't recollect if there was any mention which pipe was plugged. It was either exhaust or combustion air. So let me ask you. If, for instance it was the exhaust that was plugged and you swap it out with combustion air, is this ok? Will the system work????

[heaterman]

So let me ask you. If, for instance it was the exhaust that was plugged and you swap it out with combustion air, is this ok? Will the system work????

It would depend. Follow me over to the pro technical area and we can start a new thread...........

[trout lake]

It would depend. Follow me over to the pro technical area and we can start a new thread...........

Pro site or not........you obviously have some insight. So share it with this thread as it's obvious not everyone will be able to follow you over. What you seem to be saying is that you can do without either combustion air or a proper exhaust. Pressure switches aside. That is of course, unless you jump out safety switches as has been suggested by some that hang out here.

[beenthere]

Pro site or not........you obviously have some insight. So share it with this thread as it's obvious not everyone will be able to follow you over.

Then this thread would be moved to the Pro tech forum anyway.

You can apply for Pro membership. And gain access. After approval.

[heaterman]

:rules:

[dmd-marc]

The first thing u needto do is understand that things always dont work because they are bad. Sometimes there are other issues going on that cause them not to work. Thats why there are 100 safetys on furnace. Buy a manometer and check the ratingof the pressure switch versus what pressure is being drawn from the draft inducer. The switches have ratings n them usually. If it is not pulling enough to make what the switch is rated for, then it is not a switch problem. Just remember anyone can replace parts but it takes a tradesmen to properly repair HVAC equip.

Good Luck

[zanko79]

you probally have problem with vent pipes not big enough or to many elbows in line it could br lots a different things but most likely it is your vent pipes check them very good

[mirasowaty]

guys he said he need help not make fun of him

i think all of you who make fun does not know the ansver

i feel sorry for him and i cant bulieve how many of you guys are ........

[JimStreet]

GrodyPhysics - we all make mistakes, even the best of us, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Other people just aren't willing to admit it as openly as you are.
Don't let the condescending tone of others discourage you. People that are constantly condescending are usually insecure and need to feel superior to others by belittling them...makes them feel better about themselves.

[firecontrol]

damn...tryin to learn here...what does "open" forum mean, why cant this be discussed? I posted here because i'm stuck and looking for a solution...this doesnt happen regularly, I've never done anything like this...i could not find the solution and I am merely asking for help so i can learn from this...ease up on me a little

I read the whole thread and was amazed at the amount of energy put into trying to get around discussing technical issues in an open forum by our resident professionals when the basic issue was the fact that GrodyPhysics' original post was asking for technical answers in the residential section instead of the pros section.

GrodyPhysics you already know (by your own comments) that what your boss expects you to do is beyond your capabilities and knowledge in some cases, but yet he expects you to do it anyhow. That is gross indifference to human life on his part. The reason that you do what he tells you to do in these cases is something only you can answer. This trade and the work that we do has the potential to kill innocent people on almost every job we work on. I'd strongly suggest if you want to continue in this business and enjoy doing it find a different place to work immediately. The boss hopefully has liability insurance and can always blame things on you, but you're the one that will have to live with it if your actions (at his direction) hurt someone.

All that the pros were trying to do was tell you that what you had done and what you were doing was dangerous at worse and not acceptable practice at best. The problem is that for them to do that and still stay within the rules that we must abide by within the open forum section probably left them a little frustrated in just how to best get that across to you IMO.

Constructive criticism is a big part of this business and is one of the main tools used to train those with less experience than those teaching. Not saying it's right, but it's what is used most often. You'll need to identify it and understand why it's being directed at you or you'll either have a miserable life doing this or you won't last doing it.

[atoztech]

guys he said he need help not make fun of him

i think all of you who make fun does not know the ansver

i feel sorry for him and i cant bulieve how many of you guys are ........

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah what he said. I have to say reading this thread im glad this was nobody i knew.Jumping out safeties " to get them heat". Yikes!!!!! Whats the difference if the customers dont wake up.Rather be a little chilly to have it corrected properly.And if your boss tells you to do things like this.....run for the hills and find a better employer.

[trout lake]

I read the whole thread and was amazed at the amount of energy put into trying to get around discussing technical issues in an open forum by our resident professionals when the basic issue was the fact that GrodyPhysics' original post was asking for technical answers in the residential section instead of the pros section.

GrodyPhysics you already know (by your own comments) that what your boss expects you to do is beyond your capabilities and knowledge in some cases, but yet he expects you to do it anyhow. That is gross indifference to human life on his part. The reason that you do what he tells you to do in these cases is something only you can answer. This trade and the work that we do has the potential to kill innocent people on almost every job we work on. I'd strongly suggest if you want to continue in this business and enjoy doing it find a different place to work immediately. The boss hopefully has liability insurance and can always blame things on you, but you're the one that will have to live with it if your actions (at his direction) hurt someone.

All that the pros were trying to do was tell you that what you had done and what you were doing was dangerous at worse and not acceptable practice at best. The problem is that for them to do that and still stay within the rules that we must abide by within the open forum section probably left them a little frustrated in just how to best get that across to you IMO.

Constructive criticism is a big part of this business and is one of the main tools used to train those with less experience than those teaching. Not saying it's right, but it's what is used most often. You'll need to identify it and understand why it's being directed at you or you'll either have a miserable life doing this or you won't last doing it.

Firecontrol
Your comments were well said. I will comment on one thing tho. I don't think the residential professionals on this site "skirt" the issues. At least I have never seen it. Do you think it's possible that skirting an issue and dismissing an issue are one in the same? I don't. I can't speak for anyone on this site but myself. When I looked at the original post I didn't think it qualified to be asked in the "pro" forum. My thought, and it's only my thought, was that anybody that replaces a functioning draft inducer because they hear "gurgling", has no place on the pro forum. Do you think they do?

[tipsrfine]

Firecontrol
Your comments were well said. I will comment on one thing tho. I don't think the residential professionals on this site "skirt" the issues. At least I have never seen it. Do you think it's possible that skirting an issue and dismissing an issue are one in the same? I don't. I can't speak for anyone on this site but myself. When I looked at the original post I didn't think it qualified to be asked in the "pro" forum. My thought, and it's only my thought, was that anybody that replaces a functioning draft inducer because they hear "gurgling", has no place on the pro forum. Do you think they do?

His lack of knowledge & experience is exactly why his place is in the pro forum. Why a regular member is making comments about the pro forum is beyond me. There is not a single member in the pro forum that doesn't learn new stuff on a regular basis. A new guy like the op will just have a hell of a lot more to learn than a 20 year veteran.

[djastram]

The last bird I found was complete with maggots. They sit in the exhaust warming themselves, and then die of CO. That's my theory anyway.

With the gas off, I hook up my manometer and watch the in. wc. change as I remove and re-install both the inlet and exhaust pipe one at a time.

Another one that puzzled me for a while was a missing cap on the combustion blower. It was a multi position furnace that needed the yellow cap moved on the combustion blower if the furnace was mounted horizontally or side vented. Some where along the way, the furnace lost the cap and the combustion blower was just barely satisfying the pressure switch. Most of the time anyway.

Welcome to the jungle...

[firecontrol]

Firecontrol
Your comments were well said. I will comment on one thing tho. I don't think the residential professionals on this site "skirt" the issues. At least I have never seen it. Do you think it's possible that skirting an issue and dismissing an issue are one in the same? I don't. I can't speak for anyone on this site but myself. When I looked at the original post I didn't think it qualified to be asked in the "pro" forum. My thought, and it's only my thought, was that anybody that replaces a functioning draft inducer because they hear "gurgling", has no place on the pro forum. Do you think they do?

My definition, as it applies here, of skirting an issue is when a recognized professional member of this forum is trying to respond in the open forum area to a question that by it's nature requires a technical answer. To do so is against the rules that we all agree to and can result in our professional status being revolked and could possibly lead to our being banned from the site. I can only answer for myself when I say that I will not jeopardize my access to the wealth of information and expertise that I have access to here by posting anything that violates the rules that I agreed to when I signed up.

The difference/definition between skirting and dismissing an issue will be defined by the one posting the answer or those who read it or both. Either way the intent or perception are personal feelings and far be it from me to try and determine why someone says something here or reacts to something said here, that's hard enough to do face to face.

"Hey guys I'm new here...first year doing service in the field. I'm in new jersey, do mostly gas heat. We had this odd problem on a york unit today..."
As per the words of the original poster he infers he is a professional and his post goes on to describe what he, in a professional capacity, did during his day at work. Maybe I missed something, but to me that fits every requirement to require it to be posted in the pro forums.

You ask if I think the poster belongs in the pro forums. Absolutely! He's working as a pro. He's being paid as a pro. He's being expected to do the work of a pro by his boss. What did I see lacking from his post........... experience and proper direction from who he works for.

[Some Dude]

This guy is trying to learn but he has a disability,its called his employer.

As soon as possible get away from those hacks you are working for and find a good company.
Your telling us he reuses parts? Sounds like thats all he does is change parts, anyone can do that,
Keep learning and if it doesn't seem right call someone or post again, just dont jump out any safeties, they are three for a reason, hence the name safeties.