The Future of Green Refrigeration

[thermanson]

What does everyone think about the future of green refrigeration. I have a couple ideas on the subject (http://www.laurus.edu/green_refrigeration_article.asp), but I'm far from an expert on this and would like to know what everyone else thought.

Thanks!

[Parksy]

new to the field, but I back going GREEN!! Woot woot.

[Air Doctor, Inc]

I am from NY and I am familar with co2 as a refrigerant. In fact it is used in a large grocery train. I have also been trained on it's application by large case manufacturer. If you want green refrigeration look into ammonia. The king of all gases.

[jpsmith1cm]

I am from NY and I am familar with co2 as a refrigerant. In fact it is used in a large grocery train. I have also been trained on it's application by large case manufacturer. If you want green refrigeration look into ammonia. The king of all gases.

CO2 seems to be all the rage right now.

When all is said and done, I don't think that it is going to last.

I agree that Ammonia is probably going to make some sort of resurgence.

[james122964]

I think that the future will be no refrigerant, once a super solid state peltier, or pyrocrystalline substance is developed.

The funny thing about green is that everything that is green, takes a lot of not green to make, even ammonia, and even more green to buy.

jim

[herohero]

I am from NY and I am familar with co2 as a refrigerant. In fact it is used in a large grocery train. I have also been trained on it's application by large case manufacturer. If you want green refrigeration look into ammonia. The king of all gases.

I'm very interested in refrigeration with ammonia. Two years ago, I read an article on Ashrae's Journal, its title is "Ammonia Future". There are some examples of using ammonia as an refrigerant in commercial and residential building as a new trend. However, in my country, it's still only "future", I have never seen any building chose ammonia for cooling.

Btw, I attached here the article "Ammonia Future" for the reference of thread's owner:

[lemagr67]

It's my opinion that we aren't going to see many huge advancements in green HVAC any time soon. There are simply too many companies that stand to lose too much money and too many government agencies with their hands in the free market.

Take DuPont for example. How much money do you think they make every year on refrigerants alone? It seems like every time their patent runs our on one, it is "uncovered" that this refrigerant is terrrrrrible for the environment... but luckily, they just happen to have the answer setting on their shelves. (ie R22) Now they are saying we have to quit using Puron because it is just as bad as Freon. This isn't likely to stop any time soon. The only reason geothermal is taking off is because it still uses refrigerants.

Secondly, you have the EPA up to its eyeballs in this technology. The fact of the matter is that the refrigerants we use aren't going to kill someone if they leak out of the system. Maybe they will if they burn some of them on accident, but it's not a big danger. Ammonia and propane on the other hand are hazardous for obvious reasons. The EPA isn't going to let every home in America contain gallons of ammonia that will leak out at some point.

This is only my two cents, but if you want to see the future of green HVAC, I don't think you need to look any further than optimization of the current systems and the R&D departments of DuPont and the like. If someone were to come up with a revolutionary idea in their garage, it would be bought up so fast that we would never hear a word about it.

[james122964]

It's my opinion that we aren't going to see many huge advancements in green HVAC any time soon. There are simply too many companies that stand to lose too much money and too many government agencies with their hands in the free market.

Take DuPont for example. How much money do you think they make every year on refrigerants alone? It seems like every time their patent runs our on one, it is "uncovered" that this refrigerant is terrrrrrible for the environment... but luckily, they just happen to have the answer setting on their shelves. (ie R22) Now they are saying we have to quit using Puron because it is just as bad as Freon. This isn't likely to stop any time soon. The only reason geothermal is taking off is because it still uses refrigerants.

Secondly, you have the EPA up to its eyeballs in this technology. The fact of the matter is that the refrigerants we use aren't going to kill someone if they leak out of the system. Maybe they will if they burn some of them on accident, but it's not a big danger. Ammonia and propane on the other hand are hazardous for obvious reasons. The EPA isn't going to let every home in America contain gallons of ammonia that will leak out at some point.

This is only my two cents, but if you want to see the future of green HVAC, I don't think you need to look any further than optimization of the current systems and the R&D departments of DuPont and the like. If someone were to come up with a revolutionary idea in their garage, it would be bought up so fast that we would never hear a word about it.

Hey, I firmly believe the patent thing is applied to more than just refrigerants.

Jim

[kirbinster]

How could anyone possibly use CO2 as a refridgerant? That stuff is nasty, it is the main cause of global warming ;) (if you believe that crapola)

[skyemoor]

The article is very lightweight and mostly speculative. The part about magnets is specious.

The part about Einstein is not new, there are many working fluids out there that could be classified as refrigerants (depending on the temperature range desired).

http://etd.fcla.edu/UF/UFE0001112/vijayaraghavan_s.pdf (http://etd.fcla.edu/UF/UFE0001112/vijayaraghavan_s.pdf)

[mccann]

What if in 10 years, future technology breakthroughs give us abundant, clean, cheap energy? I want to air condition my yard.

[johnnykling]

the danfoss turbocore technology ( magnetic bearings) & drives(dc inverters) are going to change the world or are right now.