evolution control

[bubb1957]

I have the Bryant Evolution 355mav furnace. Can anyone tell me the operating differences between setting the furnace on "comfort" vs "efficiency" settings in the advance settings? Does it have more to do with using the 2nd stage more on the comfort setting? The manual says comfort "is a decreased airflow used to increase the output air temp and provide increased comfort". Mine seems to run on 2nd stage more frequently on comfort vs efficiency. I would appreciate any opionions on this..thanks

[yourairman]

I have the Bryant Evolution 355mav furnace. Can anyone tell me the operating differences between setting the furnace on "comfort" vs "efficiency" settings in the advance settings? Does it have more to do with using the 2nd stage more on the comfort setting? The manual says comfort "is a decreased airflow used to increase the output air temp and provide increased comfort". Mine seems to run on 2nd stage more frequently on comfort vs efficiency. I would appreciate any opionions on this..thanks


The advanced section of the evolution or infinity thermostat is intended for technicians and dealers not HO's. That is why you have to hold a button for 10 seconds to get to it. You need to contact the installing dealer and have them solve this problem for you

[bubb1957]

So I should tear out the pages concerning "advanced set up" section in the Evolution Control Homeowners Guide? I see your point, but I dont feel I should need to call my dealer for every question I have on the system..Thanks

[yourairman]

The advanced section, from what I remember, is in the Installers Guide not the homeowner's guide. When you purchase a product, such as the Evolution, part of what you are buying is comfort and efficiency. It is the responsibility of the installing contractor to make sure you got what you paid for. If the company is selling comfort than they should expect a trip or two back to customers house to get the system dialed in to meet their expectations. I know it can be a hassle to schedule a service call but when you go adjusting the settings in the advanced setup it is more than a yes or no answer. There are several variables to consider.

[yourairman]

And to answer your question in a nutshell it has to do with airflow.

[bubb1957]

Thanks for the info...

[commerce48]

I have the Bryant Evolution 355mav furnace. Can anyone tell me the operating differences between setting the furnace on "comfort" vs "efficiency" settings in the advance settings? Does it have more to do with using the 2nd stage more on the comfort setting? The manual says comfort "is a decreased airflow used to increase the output air temp and provide increased comfort". Mine seems to run on 2nd stage more frequently on comfort vs efficiency. I would appreciate any opionions on this..thanks

Answering this question is hardly a DIY issue. It is basic information about what those terms mean. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

Here what I think it means (I'm a non professional): This is a setting for a heat pump if you have one. When it is colder outside, the temperature gradient will not be as high and and the supply air will feel colder. Slowing the blower speed will increase the temperature at the vent, which feels better. It is slightly less efficient though, perhaps a few percent.

It is possible that the logic of the furnace bumps the heat pump up to second stage if it cannot keep up with the heat loss at the low blower speed, increasing the heat output. This is also less efficient than running on the lower stage as it shortens run times (and may also shorten your compressor life).

If you don't have a heat pump, I don't think those settings will affect your gas furnace at all, in fact, they may not be allowed choices on your stat.

[Pelican3]

Good for you on trying to learn your equipment. If all our customers were like you we wouldn't get some of those silly callback questions. I love dealing with customers whom take an interest and learn how their purchase works.

The setting has everything to do with airflow and nothing to do with heat pumps. In comfort mode the fan slows down a bit and the air comes out of the vents hotter and quieter. Also, less net heat is stripped off the exchanger cells so a little more heat goes out the venting. In efficiency mode, the fan is faster and the air coming out your vents is a little cooler. Not as comfortable, but more effecient because more heat is stripped off before the flue gasses become vented.

[yourairman]

Answering this question is hardly a DIY issue. It is basic information about what those terms mean. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

Here what I think it means (I'm a non professional): This is a setting for a heat pump if you have one. When it is colder outside, the temperature gradient will not be as high and and the supply air will feel colder. Slowing the blower speed will increase the temperature at the vent, which feels better. It is slightly less efficient though, perhaps a few percent.

It is possible that the logic of the furnace bumps the heat pump up to second stage if it cannot keep up with the heat loss at the low blower speed, increasing the heat output. This is also less efficient than running on the lower stage as it shortens run times (and may also shorten your compressor life).

If you don't have a heat pump, I don't think those settings will affect your gas furnace at all, in fact, they may not be allowed choices on your stat.

Adjusting the airflow internally on the user interface(thermostat) is something the installing dealer should be performing not the HO. You even have no idea what exactly it does and you are giving your best guess at what it affects. AS STATED BEFORE. A customer pays more money to not only get more comfort but more customer service. Any airflow adjustments other than continuous fan mode should always be performed by the installing dealer. There is no SHAME in making sure HO's due not mess up a perfectly good system.

[yourairman]

Good for you on trying to learn your equipment. If all our customers were like you we wouldn't get some of those silly callback questions. I love dealing with customers whom take an interest and learn how their purchase works.

The setting has everything to do with airflow and nothing to do with heat pumps. In comfort mode the fan slows down a bit and the air comes out of the vents hotter and quieter. Also, less net heat is stripped off the exchanger cells so a little more heat goes out the venting. In efficiency mode, the fan is faster and the air coming out your vents is a little cooler. Not as comfortable, but more effecient because more heat is stripped off before the flue gasses become vented.

Silly callback questions are part of the business. And most of this can be avoided if the installers spend a few extra minutes after the installation expaining system operation to the HO.

[commerce48]

Adjusting the airflow internally on the user interface(thermostat) is something the installing dealer should be performing not the HO. You even have no idea what exactly it does and you are giving your best guess at what it affects. AS STATED BEFORE. A customer pays more money to not only get more comfort but more customer service. Any airflow adjustments other than continuous fan mode should always be performed by the installing dealer. There is no SHAME in making sure HO's due not mess up a perfectly good system.

Nor is there any shame in having HO understand parameters that affect their comfort. With no understanding, how can they get their service person to customize their system to their preferences, not the service person's? You can disparage my knowledge all you want (such "sharing" is usually called ad hominem attacks on most forums), but that does not help me or the OP one whit, nor does sharing such information suddenly enable a DIY. At least I tried.

[yourairman]

Nor is there any shame in having HO understand parameters that affect their comfort. With no understanding, how can they get their service person to customize their system to their preferences, not the service person's? You can disparage my knowledge all you want (such "sharing" is usually called ad hominem attacks on most forums), but that does not help me or the OP one whit, nor does sharing such information suddenly enable a DIY. At least I tried.

I completely agree the HO should understand the parameters that affect their comfort. This SHOULD be discussed with the installing technician at the time of the installation. It is the responsibility of the installing contractor to cover all of these details before completion of the installation. Bryant/Carrier make it difficult for HO's to access the advanced menu by holding a button for 10 seconds. This is for one reason only. To keep HO's out of the advanced setup options. Again, and I cannot state this enough, part of what you are selling with an evolution/infinity setup is comfort. It sometimes takes a few extra calls to get the system dialed in to the customers expectations. This is nothing more than good customer service!

[seadragon]

Well, as a HO in the know, I'd like to add my 2 cents...

The sad reality is that there are "pros" out there (Carrier dealers no less) that don't know squat about how to setup the Infinity Control properly. I know, because I've had to deal with them. Like anything, there are some people who want to know all the details about their system and others who don't care to know. I'm a very informed consumer and I fall into the category of a HO that wants to know every detail. This includes the advanced setup menu of my Infinity Control. Over time, I've learned what every setting does and how it should be set. In fact, the installer (again a Carrier dealer) gave me the booklet and asked me to setup my own control after he realized I knew more about it than he did. I know that sounds crazy, but I'm not making this up. He actually seemed relieved that he didn't have to deal with setting it up or tweaking anything.

I agree in having an advanced menu for the more "one time" settings, but some of the features buried in the advanced setup menu should not be in there. For example, Fahrenheit vs Celsius. Why is that in there? Anyone should be able to flip between these settings anytime they want.

The fact is, no HO should be "locked out" of the system they own. Sure, Carrier makes you press the advanced button for 10 seconds, but are they really trying to lock people out? If it was top secret, classified information, they'd design it with a pass code or make you hookup a laptop with custom software to configure it.

HVAC is not some dark secret that should be shrouded in mystery. It's just a trade like any other. About the only thing a HO should not be doing IMO is gas fitting/hookup because that IS potentially fatal. Adjusting the Infinity Control is not even close to that.

[yourairman]

Well, as a HO in the know, I'd like to add my 2 cents...

The sad reality is that there are "pros" out there (Carrier dealers no less) that don't know squat about how to setup the Infinity Control properly. I know, because I've had to deal with them. Like anything, there are some people who want to know all the details about their system and others who don't care to know. I'm a very informed consumer and I fall into the category of a HO that wants to know every detail. This includes the advanced setup menu of my Infinity Control. Over time, I've learned what every setting does and how it should be set. In fact, the installer (again a Carrier dealer) gave me the booklet and asked me to setup my own control after he realized I knew more about it than he did. I know that sounds crazy, but I'm not making this up. He actually seemed relieved that he didn't have to deal with setting it up or tweaking anything.

I agree in having an advanced menu for the more "one time" settings, but some of the features buried in the advanced setup menu should not be in there. For example, Fahrenheit vs Celsius. Why is that in there? Anyone should be able to flip between these settings anytime they want.

The fact is, no HO should be "locked out" of the system they own. Sure, Carrier makes you press the advanced button for 10 seconds, but are they really trying to lock people out? If it was top secret, classified information, they'd design it with a pass code or make you hookup a laptop with custom software to configure it.

HVAC is not some dark secret that should be shrouded in mystery. It's just a trade like any other. About the only thing a HO should not be doing IMO is gas fitting/hookup because that IS potentially fatal. Adjusting the Infinity Control is not even close to that.

Not people, HO's. If Carrier wanted the HO in the advanced setup than why would you have to push a button for 10 seconds to get there. Because they do not want the HO in that setup. All of the features in the advanced setup are listed in the INSTALLERS MANUAL NOT THE HO MANUAL. Sure you pay for the system and deserve every advantage it delivers but there are certain aspects to the system that the installing dealer should setup. If you had a company install a system that didn't know how to set it up than some of the blame should fall on your shoulders for picking that dealer. The company I had been involved with that was a bryant dealer never left the installers manual behind because of too many call backs that resulted in HO's changing setups in the advanced menu and blaming the last tech there. The advanced menu is something that should not be continually changed as you would with setback programming.

[seadragon]

Not people, HO's. If Carrier wanted the HO in the advanced setup than why would you have to push a button for 10 seconds to get there. Because they do not want the HO in that setup. All of the features in the advanced setup are listed in the INSTALLERS MANUAL NOT THE HO MANUAL. Sure you pay for the system and deserve every advantage it delivers but there are certain aspects to the system that the installing dealer should setup. If you had a company install a system that didn't know how to set it up than some of the blame should fall on your shoulders for picking that dealer. The company I had been involved with that was a bryant dealer never left the installers manual behind because of too many call backs that resulted in HO's changing setups in the advanced menu and blaming the last tech there. The advanced menu is something that should not be continually changed as you would with setback programming.

Well, I had no choice in the installer. It was the company the builder used for the entire development. There are only 2 Carrier dealers in town and the other is an appliance store that has an HVAC branch (I don't know what they're like, but they don't offer after-hours service). I looked on Carrier's website and there are no Distiguished or President's Award dealers around me anywhere. So, I'm stuck with the clowns.

I want to say that I understand your point of view and I agree with some of what you've said. I'm sure you've seen bad situations as a pro and I can only imagine what it's like to work in the field. I'm just expressing my opinion as a frustrated HO. I'm a very technical guy and I have a strong interest in HVAC for some reason (maybe I should have been a tech).

Anyway, I just think that some things should be available to the HO to change. As I mentioned, F or C, and Smart Recovery come to mind.

I do agree with you that the installer should know how to setup and tweak the system so that it runs most efficiently. What I don't like is the "mystery" that is seems to be promoted about the advanced functions of the control. If I bought and paid for the control, I also insist on having the installation manual. It's mine.

[bubb1957]

Just for the record...check page 25 of the Evolution Homeowners manual which is in my possession and online...You will find some of the advanced settings in the Homeowners manual....

http://www.ableairinc.com/EVOLUTION.pdf

[seadragon]

That's a different "advanced" menu.

There are 3 menus on these controls:

Basic
Advanced
Advanced Setup

The first 2 are mentioned in the homeowners guide. The 3rd one is only mentioned in the installation/setup manual. Both manuals come with the control in the box. Some installers choose to take it upon themselves to remove the installation manual. That would never fly at my house. You buy the control, you own all the manuals that come with it.

The funny thing is that my furnace (Carrier 58MVP) has both the install/service manual and homeowner guide bound all together in one booklet. Install/service is on one side and flip it over for the homeowner guide. It even says on the front page of the install manual to leave it with the homeowner for future reference. So obviously, these are not classified documents (nor should they be).

[Pelican3]

Silly callback questions are part of the business. And most of this can be avoided if the installers spend a few extra minutes after the installation expaining system operation to the HO.

I absolutely agree with this statement. The whole problem goes back to the installer who needs more training, time, customer service skills, or all of the above. I also think that 98% of homeowners have no business in the advanced setup menu, but the 2% whom can understand it, go ahead and learn it. Just don't fudge with it.

It is really too bad that some technicians don't take the time to learn about the Infinity/Evolution control. Fortunately, I have been trained on it, and wish it could be installed on every brand of furnace we come across every day.

[teaysvalley]

Well, I had no choice in the installer. It was the company the builder used for the entire development. There are only 2 Carrier dealers in town and the other is an appliance store that has an HVAC branch (I don't know what they're like, but they don't offer after-hours service). I looked on Carrier's website and there are no Distiguished or President's Award dealers around me anywhere. So, I'm stuck with the clowns.

I want to say that I understand your point of view and I agree with some of what you've said. I'm sure you've seen bad situations as a pro and I can only imagine what it's like to work in the field. I'm just expressing my opinion as a frustrated HO. I'm a very technical guy and I have a strong interest in HVAC for some reason (maybe I should have been a tech).

Anyway, I just think that some things should be available to the HO to change. As I mentioned, F or C, and Smart Recovery come to mind.

I do agree with you that the installer should know how to setup and tweak the system so that it runs most efficiently. What I don't like is the "mystery" that is seems to be promoted about the advanced functions of the control. If I bought and paid for the control, I also insist on having the installation manual. It's mine.

I'm with you on this. I'm an engineer and I like technical stuff. The Infinity/Evolution control is a "neat" thing. If I paid for it, I want full control.

In my situation, I had to set it up myself. The installation crew did a good job, but when it came to programming details they were clueless. I also don't want to bother them everytime I want to change the lockouts. If Carrier doesn't want HO messing with the advanced menu, they shouldn't let just let any company install an Infinity system. I chose my dealer mainly because of price and good references, but they were also listed on Carriers website as an authorized dealer. Maybe Carrier/Bryant should require some level of testing to become an authorized Infinity/Evolution installer. That would be a feather in the dealers cap to put in their advertizing.

[elolson]

Guys, thanks for the info on how to get to the advanced menu. I needed to set my humidify with fan option to yes to get mine to work so that it will control the house humidity. The reason I am doing this and not the installer is because the installer does not understand the system despite being a Bryant dealer. I was stuck with him as that is who the general contractor picked for my home remodel. He at first tried to install a separate humidifier control. I told him that did not seam right since I had researched the controller and it was supposed to do everything. I then showed him in the installation manual that it called out how to wire the 24vac connection. It still did not work and he complained about a bad board, I never could get the story.

Finally I got sick of it and went on the roof with the manual myself. He had wired the 24v signal to the dehum connection on the terminal block rather than connect to the stand alone HUM terminal as the schematic clearly indicates. He also failed to install the OAT sensor. I have no idea where that is. But not wanting to wait I saw that the manual had a temp vs. resisitance curve. I stuck in an 18kohm resister across the OAT block and now I get a fixed outside temp of 54deg. Good enough until I can get the right part since my installer was not up to the job. Even the 24ac he tried to install was a hack. It has wire nuts halfway from the humidifier to the furnace board. I yanked that and installed the two wires from the board to the humidifier without the wire break at a junction box.

So then the system would humidify when the heat was on. But not otherwise. Frustrated I hit the internet and found this thread. Found the advanced setup menu and set the humidifier to run with fan.

THANKS to all. Now I am closer to a working system. I just wonder what else is buggered up in the install. To all you professionals, I understand that you have had to deal with a bunch of knucklehead HOs who messed up their systems, but I can only hope you billed them appropriately. As for me, there are plenty of less than competent professionals, from mechanics, to electricians, to HVAC guys. Sometimes they have long careers almost getting it right. I am just glad I can figure it out and do it myself to get it all the way right and not almost.

Not sure how to handle the installer. I think I am going to explain what the problem was, the fix, and then walk through the installation check-list. He'll hate me when we are done, but I'll have a system that I can trust at the end of it.

I do love the product. Quite and effective.