Heat pump runs kind of cold

[SaraShaw]

I just got a new Goodman heat pump. 13 Seer. Last night it got down to 28 degrees and thus was a first real test. Unfortunately I am not sure it passed. The heater ran rather cold, and came on every 15 minutes. This morning I put it up from 70 to 72 and my auxilary heat came on to handle it, and also, I can't really feel much hot air coming out.

It is 70 in here so something must be working, but should I call the installer? Is this something that can be fixed? I live in Massachusetts and in January it can get down to 0 degrees.

Previously I had a bryant and I would never have such issues at 28 degrees. The problems didn't start until about 10.

[gary_g]

I just got a new Goodman heat pump. 13 Seer. Last night it got down to 28 degrees and thus was a first real test. Unfortunately I am not sure it passed. The heater ran rather cold, and came on every 15 minutes. This morning I put it up from 70 to 72 and my auxilary heat came on to handle it, and also, I can't really feel much hot air coming out.

It is 70 in here so something must be working, but should I call the installer? Is this something that can be fixed? I live in Massachusetts and in January it can get down to 0 degrees.

Previously I had a bryant and I would never have such issues at 28 degrees. The problems didn't start until about 10.

Technical operating data for my 3-ton 14 SEER GSH Goodman heat pump:

Ambient-------Temp after indoor coil
Temp---------(based on 70F return air)

55F----------------103.7F
45F----------------99.1F
35F----------------95F
25F----------------91.6F
15F----------------88.1F
5F-----------------84.4F

You need to have the installer come back and check the refrigerant charge and air flow.

Good luck.

[SalCange]

If you have a variable speed blower, have a tech set the dipswitch to the lowest speed percentage. If without a VS blower, make sure it's set on the lowest speed.

[davefr]

Technical operating data for my 3-ton 14 SEER GSH Goodman heat pump:

Ambient-------Temp after indoor coil
Temp---------(based on 70F return air)

55F----------------103.7F
45F----------------99.1F
35F----------------95F
25F----------------91.6F
15F----------------88.1F
5F-----------------84.4F



^^^ Excellent thing to do!!

Every homeowner should create this type of log when they know their system is operating correctly. Once the system is baselined over several ambients in both heating and cooling mode they'll have a basis for helping determine if their system's performance has degraded.

Of course there are more variables but this type of comparison can really be beneficial for the homeowner.

Just make sure the filter is clean and any aux. heat is off when you capture the data.

[SaraShaw]

[QUOTE=davefr;5064592 Every homeowner should create this type of log when they know their system is operating correctly. .[/QUOTE]

Have to admit I don't know what this log means. Should I presume that when it is 55 degrees outside the heat blowing out should be at 104 degrees.

I know the installer had some sort of infaread thing he measured the temp coming out of the blowers, unforunately at that time it was like 60 degrees out.

I called him, he is coming out on Friday.

[davefr]

Have to admit I don't know what this log means. Should I presume that when it is 55 degrees outside the heat blowing out should be at 104 degrees.

The key thing in Gary's example is the temp. difference the between cold air return and the heat register closest to the air handle. This temp delta will decrease as outdoor ambients get colder and the HP struggles more to absorb outdoor heat. You can record these temp readings with virtually any household thermometer


I called him, he is coming out on Friday.

That's the right thing to do. Once you're sure that the system is operating correctly you can create a chart like Gary's to have a baseline of how your system performs across various outdoor ambient conditions.

[amd]

Moving air below body temperature can feel cool, even if it's 15F+ above ambient.

Don't worry about the supply air temperature; if it's maintaining the setpoint without using the aux heat much, it's working fine.

Cycling at 28F outdoor is actually a good sign.

[SaraShaw]

Moving air below body temperature can feel cool, even if it's 15F+ above ambient.

Don't worry about the supply air temperature; if it's maintaining the setpoint without using the aux heat much, it's working fine.

Cycling at 28F outdoor is actually a good sign.

Actually came home tonight and saw the aux heat on, when I was just going from 70 to 71. And it is 38 degrees out. Can I ask what the aux heat is? I was told it was kind of like emergency heat.

My last system was heat and emergency, this is heat, aux and emergency. If Aux isn't going to kill my energy system and is otherwise normal I won't worry about it too much.

[smittyii]

Actually came home tonight and saw the aux heat on, when I was just going from 70 to 71. And it is 38 degrees out. Can I ask what the aux heat is? I was told it was kind of like emergency heat.

My last system was heat and emergency, this is heat, aux and emergency. If Aux isn't going to kill my energy system and is otherwise normal I won't worry about it too much.

emergency heat is straight electric heat, aux is the heat strips aiding the heat pump. if the unit is sized correctly and charged to temp it should be okay. as was said earlier h/p heat can get below skin surface temp but is still above ambient temp. the colder the OUTSIDE ambient the less efficient the h/p. if its just defrosting itself over and over its time to go emergency heat.

[amd]

The supplemental heat can be prohibitively expensive to operate, and most heatpumps don't have the capacity to rapidly increase the indoor temp.

Your type of system should be left at a constant temperature to minimize use of the heat strips.

Don't switch to emergency heat unless the heatpump stops working.

[davefr]

Your type of system should be left at a constant temperature to minimize use of the heat strips.



That's only true if the home is occupied 24/7. For long periods away from home, (ex: like the span from sleep to work the next day), modest setbacks will save you money even if strip heating get's engaged at the end of the setback period.

I think beenthere suggested 1 degree of setback for every 2 hours absense from the home.

[gary_g]

Don't worry about the supply air temperature

Gotta disagree on that one.

Heat pump supply air temp checks (based on mfrs recommended temps vs ambient temp) is a quick way for a homeowner to determine if their heat pump is operating properly.

Take care.

[gary_g]

My last system was heat and emergency, this is heat, aux and emergency. If Aux isn't going to kill my energy system and is otherwise normal I won't worry about it too much.

"Heat" = heat pump running only
"Aux" = heat pump and electric strips running at the same time
"Emerg" = electric strips running only

Take care.

[amd]

Gotta disagree on that one.

Heat pump supply air temp checks (based on mfrs recommended temps vs ambient temp) is a quick way for a homeowner to determine if their heat pump is operating properly.

Take care.

Only if the installer set the blower speed correctly. :p

[tpa-fl]

That's only true if the home is occupied 24/7. For long periods away from home, (ex: like the span from sleep to work the next day), modest setbacks will save you money even if strip heating get's engaged at the end of the setback period.

I think beenthere suggested 1 degree of setback for every 2 hours absense from the home.

This depends on how: 1) the system was sized in relation to the heat loss of the building. 2) How well the heat pump performs in colder temperatures. In other words, there won't be a hard & fast rule for this. It'd be entirely possible to spec out a heat pump setup that would handle 0F with plenty of reserve capacity left. Just a matter of picking the right size equipment in relation to the heat loss at that temperature, AND picking equipment which handles the colder temperatures better, like many of the mini-split systems.

With my heat pump setup, cooling and dehumidification were the priorities, thus the system was sized with this in mind, heating performance was secondary. As such, once the temperatures get below 30F, my heat pump can easily carry the load, but has very little reserve left for increasing the indoor temperature. In such case, it's cheaper to let the unit run continuously rather than bring on the aux heat. BUT only in that window. Once the temperatures are warmer and the heat pump's better able to extract heat from the great outdoors and then has the extra output needed to overcome the heat loss of the building.

[amd]

The reserve actually increases as the indoor temp drops (due to lower heat loss), but recovery takes too long without the aux heat.

Individual settings may vary, but "set it and forget it" is probably the best approach for heatpumps running near the balance point.

[SaraShaw]

You need to have the installer come back and check the refrigerant charge and air flow.

The visit got moved to Tuesday. But I wanted to ask another question. I have noticed the "air flow" especially in my bedroom has really increased. I noticed that I have been waking up in the night and I am starting to think it is the blowing air. Today I went out and got an air deflector to see if that did anything.

Is this related to the "air flow" that issue you mentioned. Or is this just something that a new system will cause.

I was actually sick most of last week - I think - from cold air blowing on me while I sleep at night.

[gary_g]

The visit got moved to Tuesday. But I wanted to ask another question. I have noticed the "air flow" especially in my bedroom has really increased. I noticed that I have been waking up in the night and I am starting to think it is the blowing air. Today I went out and got an air deflector to see if that did anything.

Is this related to the "air flow" that issue you mentioned. Or is this just something that a new system will cause.

I was actually sick most of last week - I think - from cold air blowing on me while I sleep at night.

If the air handler (indoor unit) fan speed is set too high, the temps out of the registers will be colder than normal.

You will also see increased air flow from the vents.

You may have found your problem, or at least part of it.

Good luck.

[SaraShaw]

If the air handler (indoor unit) fan speed is set too high, the temps out of the registers will be colder than normal.
You will also see increased air flow from the vents.
You may have found your problem, or at least part of it.

Unfortunately, the blower was on the lowest speed. So they gave me a bit more freeon. In the end it didn't seem any better but they insisted that was as good as it was going to get.

The heat coming out of the registers was 91 to 95 degrees (although today it is about 47 outside here) and they indicated that the only thing they could really do for the bedroom was to give me another register to block the air... the one I have now doesn't work that well.

The tech also said there was no problem with me shutting the register in the bedroom totally. Although I was a bit concerned about that as I have 4 registers in my small apartment. So I worry about 1/4th of the venting being shut off. But he said that likely would just make the other registers get more air.

Let me know if that is something I should worry about.

[gary_g]

The heat coming out of the registers was 91 to 95 degrees (although today it is about 47 outside here)

That's a little low considering:


Technical operating data for my 3-ton 14 SEER GSH Goodman heat pump:

Ambient-------Temp after indoor coil
Temp---------(based on 70F return air)

55F----------------103.7F
50F----------------101.5F
45F----------------99.1F

But the above temps are measured after the indoor coil, not at the closest vent.

I'll check the performance numbers for a 13 SEER 3-ton Goodman, and see if they're much different from the 14 SEER.

Just for kicks, what is the model number of the air handler (indoor unit)?

Model number of outdoor unit (GSH13???).

[SaraShaw]

Just for kicks, what is the model number of the air handler (indoor unit)?
Model number of outdoor unit (GSH13???).

Indoor: ARUF1824 - 13 seer R22 Air Handler
Outdoor: GSH 130181A 13 seer R22 heat pump.


I will say the closest air vent to the unit was the 95 degree one. The others went up or down a bit by distance.

[gary_g]

Indoor: ARUF1824 - 13 seer R22 Air Handler
Outdoor: GSH 130181A 13 seer R22 heat pump.


I will say the closest air vent to the unit was the 95 degree one. The others went up or down a bit by distance.

That 1.5 ton heat pump condenser / air handler are a certified match.

Per Goodman's tech operating data for that heat pump and air handler:

Ambient------Temp after indoor coil
temp-------(based on 70F return air temp)

50F----------------97.1F
47F----------------95.9F
45F----------------95.1F
40F----------------93.3F
35F----------------91.5F
30F----------------86.5F
25F----------------84.1F

Your 95F on a 47F day is right on target with the manufacturer's specs (assuming the air entering the air handler was 70F).

Remember, the palm of your hand is about 89F. Any moving air close to that temp may feel cool to your hand.


Today I went out and got an air deflector to see if that did anything.

That should help keep the air from blowing directly on you.

The fact that you are getting more air flow in the bedroom now could be because they did a good job of sealing the air handler to the supply ductwork.

Good luck.

[SaraShaw]

The fact that you are getting more air flow in the bedroom now could be because they did a good job of sealing the air handler to the supply ductwork.

Oh lovely. And of course, the old unit was old and I don't know if it had ever been cleaned and so air flow could have been blocked. So I am sure that slowed it down. The bedroom vent is the second closest to the air handler but yes it is very close.

As long as there will be no damage to me shutting off the vent. I closed the vent a bit and it is still very windy in there. So now it is about 99% closed. I would like to leave it that way all the time. As long as there won't be damage.

Thank you very much for the information on temp. I am disappointed because at work the "heater" always feels like AC as well, I work in a big building, and I don't like that feeling at home. But I guess that is as good as can be done.

Now to see what happens to my electric bill. I hope that doesn't go up a lot.

[amd]

Unfortunately, the blower was on the lowest speed. So they gave me a bit more freeon. In the end it didn't seem any better but they insisted that was as good as it was going to get.

Bad sign.

Refrigerant should never have to be added - improper charging reduces performance.

Freon is a brand name - it'll either be R22 or R410A.

-------------------------------------------------
Was the last system a heatpump? Maybe you're just not used to the cooler air.

If the system is maintaining the setpoint without relying on the aux heat too much, it's probably working fine.


As long as there will be no damage to me shutting off the vent. I closed the vent a bit and it is still very windy in there. So now it is about 99% closed. I would like to leave it that way all the time. As long as there won't be damage.

Closing too many vents can cause damage.

Are the supply vents on the ceiling? (floor vents are preferable for heating - less drafty)

[absoair]

You may want to have the staic pressure checked on this system!

[SaraShaw]

Was the last system a heatpump? Maybe you're just not used to the cooler air.

The last system was a heat pump. Perhaps I am just not used to the cooler air. The last system was 22 years old, I have no clue if it was EVER cleaned or serviced and it was either 10 or 8 seer -- this is 13. So perhaps I am just not used to it and will get there.

I know where I work, I have a vent right over my desk. I hate it. It feels like it "blows cold" but my office is never cold. So I think that is the way of things these days.

The vents are at the top of the wall. I decided to post the vent question to the group in another thread.

[amd]

Consider bringing the vent down to the floor (still on the wall) and enlarging the register if feasible, as doing so will greatly reduce the draft. (Some drywall demolition and patching will be required)

The old system may have used the aux heat a lot during cold weather. (more so than the existing unit does)

[gary_g]

Now to see what happens to my electric bill. I hope that doesn't go up a lot.

Your electric bill will go up with increased usage of the auxiliary electric strips.

[gary_g]

The vents are at the top of the wall

Can you use the air deflector to deflect the air away from you as you sleep, maybe towards a window?