Infinity Questions

[lamrith]

I have a couple of questions about my new infinity system.

I have Infinity controller with FE4ANF003 and 25HPA536H003. 1st off I love the system so far, and we have not even gotten into the summer where we will have AC for the 1st time ever! :couch: I owe thanks to many of you here for helping educate me on things to look out for with installers etc.

I am curious what max CFM/RPM for the Air handler is? I have seen it show roughly 978cfm in the controller, but am not sure if that is high/med/low? Static was nice low .25, so I know my ducting is not holding the system back, just wondering how to tell if it is high or low most of the time. I have 24hr air set to low, and it really helps evening out temps in the house.

Is there a way in the controller to track HP cycle durations? I am concerned the HP is running “too much/hard”. The balance point based on “J” load calc is around 42* outdoor temp. The installer set the lockout to 45* to avoid issues. The last week or so since the system is installed the temps have been 34-50 (total temp swing night/day). Most of the time it has been hovering between 42-49 right around the lockout. At times it seems like the system is running for extended periods of time. The system is much quieter than the old oil furnace, so I do not always know when on/off, but when I walk by that corner of house seems like the HP is on all time. I am concerned about the cycles being to long. The house is warm and comfortable, so it is keeping up; I just want to make sure we are not overdoing it on runtimes. I think the controller is set for max of 4 cycles per hr, but that only helps against short cycling. I am thinking if it is running too much then maybe it would be worth bumping the lockout down a bit so it starts using the 1st 5KW of supplemental heat to reduce load on the HP?

Tied with that, I have seen what appears to be conflicting info in the controller manual. I would like to be able to see when Aux heat is active without having to go into the advanced menu. The manual mentioned turning off the red flashing led would make it read out on the display? Or will it say AUX in the display regardless of red LED setting?

Again thanks to all of you for your help in the past and future!
:pop:

[jrbenny]

Heat pumps are supposed to run continuously below balance point. That's just how they work. There's no 'over' doing it.

The Infinity control will cycle the supplemental heat to offset the capacity loss of the heat pump as the temperature drops. It most likely will not cause the inside temperature to rise enough that the heat pump would de-energize.

When the supplemental heat is energized, the Infinity control will display AUXILIARY HEAT on the display below the room temperature.

[teaysvalley]

I have a couple of questions about my new infinity system.

I have Infinity controller with FE4ANF003 and 25HPA536H003. 1st off I love the system so far, and we have not even gotten into the summer where we will have AC for the 1st time ever! :couch: I owe thanks to many of you here for helping educate me on things to look out for with installers etc.

I am curious what max CFM/RPM for the Air handler is? I have seen it show roughly 978cfm in the controller, but am not sure if that is high/med/low? Static was nice low .25, so I know my ducting is not holding the system back, just wondering how to tell if it is high or low most of the time. I have 24hr air set to low, and it really helps evening out temps in the house.

Is there a way in the controller to track HP cycle durations? I am concerned the HP is running “too much/hard”. The balance point based on “J” load calc is around 42* outdoor temp. The installer set the lockout to 45* to avoid issues. The last week or so since the system is installed the temps have been 34-50 (total temp swing night/day). Most of the time it has been hovering between 42-49 right around the lockout. At times it seems like the system is running for extended periods of time. The system is much quieter than the old oil furnace, so I do not always know when on/off, but when I walk by that corner of house seems like the HP is on all time. I am concerned about the cycles being to long. The house is warm and comfortable, so it is keeping up; I just want to make sure we are not overdoing it on runtimes. I think the controller is set for max of 4 cycles per hr, but that only helps against short cycling. I am thinking if it is running too much then maybe it would be worth bumping the lockout down a bit so it starts using the 1st 5KW of supplemental heat to reduce load on the HP?

Tied with that, I have seen what appears to be conflicting info in the controller manual. I would like to be able to see when Aux heat is active without having to go into the advanced menu. The manual mentioned turning off the red flashing led would make it read out on the display? Or will it say AUX in the display regardless of red LED setting?

Again thanks to all of you for your help in the past and future!
:pop:

I have the Performance HP/gas furnace hybrid system, so my aux heat is my furnace. I have my furnace lockout set to 35. So far the HP can handle heating on it's own and maybe even lower. I've been down to 27 degrees and the gas furnace has kicked in a couple of times. My HP lockout is 25. Th HP is set to run 15 minutes before the furnace can come on. I have setbacks set for night and during the day, but the HP will run an extended period in the morning as it ramps up the temp over 90 minutes to wake setting. The controller tracks cycles and run times. You can check them in the advanced menu.

The Infinity control does a static check every day at 1PM. It will run the blower on high for a minute. I've seen about the same CFM and static as you listed when it does that. I think my low CFM is around 350.

Yes, it is much quieter than my old system, inside and out.

[yourairman]

cfm should be around 1200 in the cooling mode
rpm can vary but should not exceed 1200-1300
at .25 static the rpm would be much lower than that. maybe even 1/2 of that
long cycles are better than short ones. A hp will have longer run times than furnace due to lower btu values.
staging in the kw will cost you more than the hp running by itself.
The infinity tracks the run cycles of both indoor and outdoor units in the installer configuration. You will have to discuss with the installing dealer on the access to this since it is primarily technical information for service technicians.

[jrbenny]

cfm should be around 1200 in the cooling mode
rpm can vary but should not exceed 1200-1300
at .25 static the rpm would be much lower than that. maybe even 1/2 of that
long cycles are better than short ones. A hp will have longer run times than furnace due to lower btu values.
staging in the kw will cost you more than the hp running by itself.
The infinity tracks the run cycles of both indoor and outdoor units in the installer configuration. You will have to discuss with the installing dealer on the access to this since it is primarily technical information for service technicians.
By default, the Infinity control is set for Comfort mode (350 CFM per ton). That would put the airflow at 1050 CFM. If there is a dehumidify demand in cooling mode, the airflow is even lower (as low as 275 CFM per ton). In heating mode, the blower is slowed further to maintain discharge air temperature higher.

[tpa-fl]

CFM for the Infinity when running in heating/cooling is determined by other factors. The low/med/high/auto speeds is only active when the unit isn't actively heating/cooling. There's no fewer than 10 different fan speeds used for cooling, and an infinite # used for heating, as the unit's blower speed is controlled partially by outdoor temperature.

At the risk of entering the DIY gray area, you can find the counters (both cycle & hrs) in the installer setup menu > Service > Run/Fault History. If you manage to find this DON"T CHANGE ANY OF THE SETTINGS!! There are a few settings in there that can damage your system if set incorrectly.

45F lockout seems rather high to me, but I've not seen your house nor done the calcs for it. I've run well into the lower 20s without needing backup heat. Mine's set to 25F. When the temps get below 40F, my heat pump runs constantly, usually on low the whole time. That's the beauty of multi-stage -- it runs continuously. Also at the lower temperatures it's cheaper for me to maintain a constant temperature than to try to do a recovery, as the Infinity stat's a little brain-dead when it comes to calculating recovery times when you're running in the lower range of the heat pump.

In general, starting and stopping compressors is what puts wear & tear on them, not continuously running. If anything, continuous running is great for them. I've had more than a few motors that were running 24/7 for years fail to start after we shut them down for a few days to do repair work on other parts of the facility.

When the system is in auxilary heat mode, the red LED flashes faster and the screen will say "AUXILARY HEAT" where the time and date are displayed. Might be immediately below that line. Only seen it once on my system.

The only reason you'd ever want to use the heat strips is if the heat pump isn't able to carry the load of the house. Even then, the heat pump is still putting out usable, cheap heat, just not enough to carry the house so you're best running both side-by-side at that point.

For comparison's sake, my system was installed in May 07, here's the current counters:



Mode Cycle Hours
Low Heat 609 260
High Heat 240 186
Low Cool 17566 3471
High Cool 1166 363
Electric Heat 0 0

[Irishmist]

Geesh, why aren't these questions put to the company that did the original install? You (the customer) paid for warranty whether you choose to use it or not. Call them and that person is in the best possible position to answer the questions you have.

all the best, Irish

[lamrith]

WOOT!!! You guys rock! Answerwed all of my questions! I have been into that "ultra secret advanced" area of the controller, but like mentioned did not change a thing. There are a bunch of aux heat entries in the system, but those are for the 2 days we ran on only furnace before the HP was installed. Really glad to know it will say aux when it runs, that is exactly what I was hoping for.

Yeah the 45 is high, but from my extreme heatload versus unit size my balance point is calculated to be 42* The installer mentioned the 3* was a buffer to make sure the system worked well and did not short cycle when the temps outside hovered around the balance point (as they have all this week)

I asked the questions here because we are not allowed to do personal calls where I work so I can't call my installer as they are closed whe I am home. But the internet is always available. Plus I knew I could count on the people here to share the information and see a consensus of opinions on it.

Thanks all!

[AggieEngineer]

I recommend not setting the HP lockout at all with elec supp heat. The HP running is always more efficient than running the Aux Heat with COP = 1. As others have mentioned, there is much more wear on the compressor starting compared to running continuiously... especially at lower temperatures. Let the HP run and do it's job. The supplimentary heat will cycle on and off as needed to maintain dwelling temperature.

If you have a gas furnace as backup, then set the lockout just above the balance point.

[tpa-fl]

I recommend not setting the HP lockout at all with elec supp heat.

With the OP's setup, I'm not sure he has an option to disable the HP. I'm not at home right now otherwise I'd go check my system which is almost identical. I know there's an electric heat lockout. I know the option DOES appear if running a fossil fuel furnace though.


Yeah the 45 is high, but from my extreme heatload versus unit size my balance point is calculated to be 42* The installer mentioned the 3* was a buffer to make sure the system worked well and did not short cycle when the temps outside hovered around the balance point (as they have all this week)

Okay, I'm curious.. large expanse of windows facing north? lack of insulation? using a large unoccupied setback? Granted, the system won't automatically bring on the aux heat just because it's below 45F outside. Also off the top of my head, I believe the system has a 10 minute stage timer, where each stage must run for 10 mins before the system calls for the next-higher stage. I believe it ignores this if the setpoint is more than 5F away from the current room temp. I could be slightly off on this

[lamrith]

Poor insulation and higher than normal window count on all sides. Our "J" load @18 is like 62Kbtu. We went 3T even though a bit small as we will be making significant improvements in the next 1-2yrs and a 4t would have been very oversized afterwards. Had to do HP this year as out old furnace kettle had failed.(pict below)

Right now the unit says it is in Aux heat, WOOT! (well not for elect bill, but..) Curious thing is that the HP fan just stopped and the HP was making a groaning noise, and there was lots of running water coming from the casing. I am assuming it is doing a Defrost cycle? Now the Fan is running again.