Who makes the highest seer Heat Pump (Air Cooled)

[marster37]

I'm trying to find out what manufacture currently has the highest seer heat pump 2 ton unit with a AHRI Certification.
Thanks in advance.

[larobj63]

Split or inverter / ductless?

[jerryd_2008]

Why not go to the following AHRI web site and play with the parameters to find it?

http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridirectory/pages/hp/defaultSearch.aspx

I would suggest starting with SEER = 19, HSPF = 10, EER = 13 and BTUH = 22000 Min and 27000 Max Cooling to by far exceed the Energy Star minimum tax credit requirements of:

Split Systems:
HSPF >= 8.5, EER >= 12.5, SEER >= 15

[marster37]

split system

[threadcutter]

I just left my local R.E.Michels branch. They are displaying a Broan Heat Pump rated at 22 SEER. It is a split system with the compressor empoying inverter technology. I don,t know much about Broan. Maybe other members of the forum will comment on Broan quality and performance.
Take Care.
Stay safe.

[marster37]

yea.. I heard from michels also but you have to go to broans training school for installation. Why I am not sure. install the correct equipment and ref lines and proper duct. whats the problem

[beenthere]

yea.. I heard from michels also but you have to go to broans training school for installation. Why I am not sure. install the correct equipment and ref lines and proper duct. whats the problem

Control system.

Some of those inverter systems are communicating.
They probably also teach you how to check if the system is working properly.

[jerryd_2008]

... They are displaying a Broan Heat Pump rated at 22 SEER. It is a split system with the compressor empoying inverter technology. I don,t know much about Broan. Maybe other members of the forum will comment on Broan quality and performance.
...

That comes up on AHRI search suggested. It appears from parameters that maybe

BROAN=FRIGIDAIRE=MAYTAG(?)=NORDYNE=NUTONE=TAPPAN=W ESTINGHOUSE

That sound likely that all those brands are the same? Their parameters look identical to me.

[beenthere]

Broan IQ is a Nordyne product.

[marster37]

yea , looks like the same units with a iq drive

[2old2rock]

Other manufacturers make 21 seer units. Probaly not as pricy as the IQ drive, but not cheap.
And seer is not the only number you need to look at with a heat-pump.
BTU output, hspf and cop are important factors.

[commerce48]

I'm trying to find out what manufacture currently has the highest seer heat pump 2 ton unit with a AHRI Certification.
Thanks in advance.

I have a Nordyne brochure that says their IQ Drive heat pump is 24.5 Seer.

[timkav]

Go to http://www.tappan.net/ac-23.asp. It's manufactured by Nordyne, www.nordyne.com. You can click on any of the Premium brands listed, including Tappan, Maytag, Westinghouse, and Frigidaire, to find a Dealer in your area. Nordyne requires Dealer Certification before selling these units.
I've been certified, and can tell you that this is a fantastic bit of industry-leading technology. Operating costs can compare to closed loop geothermal, with better comfort features, due to the modulating capacity and outputs.
Hope this helps.

[BaldLoonie]

Got me ready to take the test Tim?

[badtlc]

At what tonnage? It will vary by the capacity.

[timkav]

At what tonnage? It will vary by the capacity.
I'm not sure what you're asking...

[timkav]

2 ton FT4BI-024K is 22.0 SEER, 10.0 HSPF, with a Cooling Capacity at 95 degrees of between 10,000-27,000 BtuH;
3 ton FT4BI-036K is 21.0 SEER, 9.6 HSPF, with a Cooling Capacity at 95 degrees of between 15,000-40,000 BtuH;
4 ton FT4BI-048K is 21.0 SEER, 10.0 HSPF, with a Cooling Capacity at 95 degrees of between 16,000-52,000 BtuH; and a CFM Range of between 680-1800.

YOU WON'T BEAT THAT ANY TIME SOON...

[badtlc]

2 ton FT4BI-024K is 22.0 SEER, 10.0 HSPF, with a Cooling Capacity at 95 degrees of between 10,000-27,000 BtuH;
3 ton FT4BI-036K is 21.0 SEER, 9.6 HSPF, with a Cooling Capacity at 95 degrees of between 15,000-40,000 BtuH;
4 ton FT4BI-048K is 21.0 SEER, 10.0 HSPF, with a Cooling Capacity at 95 degrees of between 16,000-52,000 BtuH; and a CFM Range of between 680-1800.

YOU WON'T BEAT THAT ANY TIME SOON...

Those are only the highest SEER units. Other units beat the EER and HSPF numbers for those you listed. If SEER was the only measure, then you'd be correct.

[timkav]

Here is the original question:

Who makes the highest seer Heat Pump (Air Cooled)

I'm trying to find out what manufacture currently has the highest seer heat pump 2 ton unit with a AHRI Certification.
Thanks in advance.

I simply answered his question. I did NOT mention the variable speed, modulating capacity, inverter-driven features of these units. Any questions?

[timkav]

Got me ready to take the test Tim?
It will be done today.

[timkav]

Got me ready to take the test Tim?
DONE! Call me for your User ID and Password.

[jerryd_2008]

If this Nordyne IQ system is so great, why isn't it all over this forum? I had a number of contractors propose and NOT one mentioned this system and it appears to be sold by many brands.

What's the problem? Cost (seems like a viable alternative to geo at those SEER levels)? Track record? Reliability? Complexity? Too new (that seems unlikely since they state that this technology is used all over the world - what's wrong with US)? ???????:anyone:

[bartdude]

Here is the original question:

Who makes the highest seer Heat Pump (Air Cooled)

I'm trying to find out what manufacture currently has the highest seer heat pump 2 ton unit with a AHRI Certification.
Thanks in advance.

I simply answered his question. I did NOT mention the variable speed, modulating capacity, inverter-driven features of these units. Any questions?

ARI says:
Broan, Frigidaire, Maytag, Nordyne, Nutone, Tappan, Westinghouse (all the same).

[jerryd_2008]

ARI says:
Broan, Frigidaire, Maytag, Nordyne, Nutone, Tappan, Westinghouse (all the same).

See post #8.

[bartdude]

See post #8.



Yes, I used your link ;)

I've always had trouble with that site but somehow it worked this time.

[mchild]

If this Nordyne IQ system is so great, why isn't it all over this forum? I had a number of contractors propose and NOT one mentioned this system and it appears to be sold by many brands.

What's the problem? Cost (seems like a viable alternative to geo at those SEER levels)? Track record? Reliability? Complexity? Too new (that seems unlikely since they state that this technology is used all over the world - what's wrong with US)? ???????:anyone:

I think you will find generally positive comments on this board by those who know the system. I suspect that Nordyne and the various names that the system is marketed under do not have a huge share of the resi market. Carrier, Trane and a couple of others have the marketing budgets to make their names household recognized.

While the basic technology behind the IQ Drive is used around the world and is well proven, it does come at a higher cost. The rest of the world has embraced and accepted this technology as the cost of energy is substantially higher in virtually all areas outside of the US. Now that we here in the US are living with the impact of higher energy cost, we too are beginning to be more open to paying the premium for a more advanced and energy efficient system.

Over time more manufacturers will embrace what Nordyne was the first to do here. Japanese and Korean manufactures will also make advancements here as they already have these products in their line up.

One thing to remember is that while Nordyne has had a cooling only IQ Drive for a few years, the HP version has only recently been released. You will hear more about inverter systems and Nordyne will get some recognition, but this is where marketing budget plays into it.

[yourairman]

I think you will find generally positive comments on this board by those who know the system. I suspect that Nordyne and the various names that the system is marketed under do not have a huge share of the resi market. Carrier, Trane and a couple of others have the marketing budgets to make their names household recognized.

While the basic technology behind the IQ Drive is used around the world and is well proven, it does come at a higher cost. The rest of the world has embraced and accepted this technology as the cost of energy is substantially higher in virtually all areas outside of the US. Now that we here in the US are living with the impact of higher energy cost, we too are beginning to be more open to paying the premium for a more advanced and energy efficient system.

Over time more manufacturers will embrace what Nordyne was the first to do here. Japanese and Korean manufactures will also make advancements here as they already have these products in their line up.

One thing to remember is that while Nordyne has had a cooling only IQ Drive for a few years, the HP version has only recently been released. You will hear more about inverter systems and Nordyne will get some recognition, but this is where marketing budget plays into it..

What I have seen in other parts of the world with invertor drive is with ductless mini-splits. You can absorb cost of sheet metal, and installation labor cost when you eliminate the ductwork. Therefore high priced equipment is viable. When you price a base model 13 seer unit to something that is in the IQ invertor drive technology, especially if it is higher price than the carrier/trane 20-21 seer heat pumps, the time it takes for payback would outway the typical homeowner who plans to live in their house for 7-10 years. Beings how the median household income is somewhere in the $50,000 range there is a very small market for this kind of setup. I would be more concerned with HSPF and COP, especially in the us, unless you are in the far south where freezing rarely occurs.

[mchild]

.

What I have seen in other parts of the world with invertor drive is with ductless mini-splits. You can absorb cost of sheet metal, and installation labor cost when you eliminate the ductwork. Therefore high priced equipment is viable. When you price a base model 13 seer unit to something that is in the IQ invertor drive technology, especially if it is higher price than the carrier/trane 20-21 seer heat pumps, the time it takes for payback would outway the typical homeowner who plans to live in their house for 7-10 years. Beings how the median household income is somewhere in the $50,000 range there is a very small market for this kind of setup. I would be more concerned with HSPF and COP, especially in the us, unless you are in the far south where freezing rarely occurs.

I agree with much of what you state. But, like many people the view of mini-split is rather narrow and in fact it is a deeper segment than many understand. The mini part of mini-split best describes the smaller capacity of the systems but many are in the 3 - 3.5 ton range. And there are a fair number of ducted air handlers as compared to the often thought of ductless units. Plus, there are the multi-splits in which two, three or four indoor units can be connected to a single outdoor unit.

With these units zoning becomes a viable option where in many cases it would not have been. The top end of the market is the VRV/VRF systems in which the outdoor unit can have up to nine indoor units and each indoor unit is fully modulating just as the out door unit is.

It is an understatement to say the VRV/VRf systems are not any thing like a "bang on-bang off" single stage 13 SEER base line US system. But, they represent the upper end of the market such as the IQ Drive system does but introduces the concept of having multiple indoor units connected to single outdoor unit. The IQ Drive can not do that.

System capacity and operating efficiency improves as the number and capacity of VRV/VRF indoor units are connected. Heat output (no matter the HSPF number ascribed) is so far superior to any conventional HP that the cost of total heat production when not having to rely of expensive strip heat is rather affordable if not impressive.

Same with cooling - take a 4 ton nominal unit and get over 5 tons of cooling when needed. It is not comparable to measure these inverter systems using the same yard stick such as SEER and HSPF.

So I agree that inverter technology isn't for everyone and especially if you are not going to be in a home for more that a few years. But, for those who do not plan on moving, want a system that meets all the load requirements of multiple zones of the home, is economical to operate, and is projected to last 25 years not the typical 12 years, the up front cost is acceptable and tolerable.

[jerryd_2008]

...

So I agree that inverter technology isn't for everyone and especially if you are not going to be in a home for more that a few years. But, for those who do not plan on moving, want a system that meets all the load requirements of multiple zones of the home, is economical to operate, and is projected to last 25 years not the typical 12 years, the up front cost is acceptable and tolerable.

Got a bit confused on whether all of the mini-split discussion applies equally to the Nordyne IQ HP. Seems like the 25 year life projection would make this an excellent new construction choice.

If one ignores the current 30% geo credit which could be offset somewhat with the $1500 credit for DFHP's, it would seem that these high end DFHP's would have a very favorable position when compared to geo even in replacement situations. But that of course depends on the "projected costs" you and Yourairman allude to. If they approach that of geo then many HO's like me would probably set their sights lower and cheaper.

I was very interested in geo until I got actual proposals, and even after tax credits on both geo and high-end DFHP's came up with multiple times cost plus all of the digging in the yard and non-familiar technology. If my total energy costs were higher, I would have been interested in such a system as the Nordyne based on energy savings and long lifetime. Who knows, with a 25 year life it could have been the last time I had to deal with an HVAC replacement.

[mchild]

Got a bit confused on whether all of the mini-split discussion applies equally to the Nordyne IQ HP. Seems like the 25 year life projection would make this an excellent new construction choice.

If one ignores the current 30% geo credit which could be offset somewhat with the $1500 credit for DFHP's, it would seem that these high end DFHP's would have a very favorable position when compared to geo even in replacement situations. But that of course depends on the "projected costs" you and Yourairman allude to. If they approach that of geo then many HO's like me would probably set their sights lower and cheaper.

I was very interested in geo until I got actual proposals, and even after tax credits on both geo and high-end DFHP's came up with multiple times cost plus all of the digging in the yard and non-familiar technology. If my total energy costs were higher, I would have been interested in such a system as the Nordyne based on energy savings and long lifetime. Who knows, with a 25 year life it could have been the last time I had to deal with an HVAC replacement.


The mini-split discussion is applicable because most of the inverter units sold in the US are mini-split type systems. The point I was attempting to make was the inverter market is much larger and the IQ Drive system is part of the larger market of higher end whole house systems.

I can't speak for the IQ Drive, but for the VRV/VRF systems there is so much of the operating system that is monitored including sub-cooling and superheat that the system will adapt and adjust its operation reducing the likelyhood of a short operational life. This is where the 25 year projection comes from. The systems can also more readily adapt to a under sized duct system without it being detrimental to the life of the equipment.

[mrfixinthangz]

Look at EER, SEER is only based on the enviornment a high efficiency unit runs.