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96Mustang460cid
10-01-2009, 09:53 PM
This is my first post. I've spent about a week reading on here and have already learned a lot! I will try to keep this post as short as possible while providing the pertinent information. Let me know if you need additional data...

Bought a home, moved in to find high utility bill in winter (winter = $300+/month; summer = $140/month). I called the electric company thinking I had a problem...???

Among other things, the electric company done a model J calculation (Atleast, I think that's what it is):

Indoor winter design temp = 71*F
Outdoor winter design temp = 0*F
Indoor summer design temp = 76*F
Outdoor summer design temp = 100*F

Heating load = 48,518 BTU/hr
Cooling load = 25,067 BTU/hr

I live in a small town and called 'the' local HVAC company. He came and looked at the old setup (3 ton A/C and 120 amp breaker on the furnace). He called today with pricing and recommendations: 4 ton a/c and ???ton furnace. He said the rule of thumb for the furnace is the double the tonnage of the a/c. I asked if he thought a model J would be useful so we weren't guessing. He had never heard of a model J and thought I meant a model D.

Yes, I see the red flags, but this is small town life :).

The current system keeps the house comfortable with trouble-free operation. I am concerned about the efficiency and age/remaining life of the system. So, I am trying to decide if I'm better off replacing it now so I have the time to make a good purchasing decision and work with the local contractors to maximize the quality of work/equipment I receive or wait for it to blow up and replace it ASAP.

Since I expect to move within ~3 years, I don't think a high efficiency unit is worth the $$$ (correct me if I'm wrong).

Questions:
1) Do you have any recommendations on how I can best work with my local HVAC company to maximize product and installation quality? From the conversation we had this afternoon, I believe he lacks a fundamental understanding of HVAC sizing principles. I don't think it's intentional...he's a victim of small town life himself... ;)

2) 2.5 ton a/c & 4.5 ton furnace: is it normally a problem mismatching the sizing like this? He implied that a two speed compressor would be required to get this...yet, his rule of thumb said that: furnace tonnage = 2 x a/c tonnage.

3) I have found that this is a common problem: Being an inquisitive person, I learn about things, but I don't have enough experience (nor the inclination) to actually do the work. So, I can ask the 'right' questions and speak the beginning technical language, but I don't know if the install is actually done correctly... rhetorical ---> but do you have any suggestions?

Let me know if you need anything else. I live in SW Oklahoma.

Have a good day!
Michael

catmanacman
10-01-2009, 10:01 PM
i would look for a contractor with a smaller thumb:LOL:

catmanacman
10-01-2009, 10:13 PM
is your unit a heat pump or are you using resistance heat

mbarson
10-01-2009, 10:15 PM
I would start with an energy audit. Improvements to the building shell will lower your loads, improve comfort, and then you can down size your mechanical equipment saving even more. You need a load calc at a minimum. If your moving in three years don't do anything if you are concerned about ROI. Replacing your equipment with standard efficiency furnace will not change your fuel use.

jonc
10-01-2009, 11:05 PM
Sounds like you have a Straight A/C unit with just resistance heat. This guy has no competition? All the alarms are going off already. If he doesn't know what a manual J is who knows what else he doesn't know.:eek:

Cold Feet
10-01-2009, 11:59 PM
Terminology: it's "Manual J," not "Model J."

There's nothing you can do if the contractor lacks the basic trade skills to understand how to do his job. Call in a contractor from another area.

(or, go to trade school, learn how to do the job, open your own HVAC business, and put this guy out of business.... :D)

andserco
10-02-2009, 01:43 AM
What part of SW OK ?????

96Mustang460cid
10-02-2009, 07:04 AM
is your unit a heat pump or are you using resistance heat

No heat pump. Just a regular furnace.


I would start with an energy audit. Improvements to the building shell will lower your loads, improve comfort, and then you can down size your mechanical equipment saving even more. You need a load calc at a minimum. If your moving in three years don't do anything if you are concerned about ROI. Replacing your equipment with standard efficiency furnace will not change your fuel use.

I think the energy audit (from the electric company) is where my model J came from. I have done everything (and a little more) the energy audit recommended: replaced all windows and exterior doors with quality, energy star products, 'pads' behind outlet covers, ect.

The main reason I'm considering replacement is, if the HVAC goes out suddenly, I have a lot less time to get the problem properly repaired. I'm guessing they only go out when it is < 25*F or > 95*F ;).


Terminology: it's "Manual J," not "Model J."

There's nothing you can do if the contractor lacks the basic trade skills to understand how to do his job. Call in a contractor from another area.

(or, go to trade school, learn how to do the job, open your own HVAC business, and put this guy out of business.... :D)

Oops, :). It is funny you say that because this contractor said how easy the job was and that I should install my own system...I politely declined. Although he seems nice, I think he is a little worried about installing it for me. I guess my expectations are just too high (do the job RIGHT).


What part of SW OK ?????

Elk City, OK: 1.5 hours west of OKC on I-40.

Guys, thanks for your input!

Have a good day!
Michael

Side question: I read the rules before posting and it said that bumps and ttt were not allowed...but there is a 'bump' smiley :bump: :LOL:.

bothomas
10-02-2009, 08:30 AM
Is there really only one mech contractor in your town? you gotta get some other opinions. Call some companys from larger cities, areas around you. They will be some that will be more than happy to come look at it for you.