UCP2 chilled water setpoint

[ChillerWisperer]

Anyone ever have a problem with the chilled water setpoint pot on a ucp1 going screwy and drifting off setpoint? I have one under contract that seems to be doing it, but I haven't caught it yet. The plant operator says he has seen the setpoint up as high as 60 when scrolling through the menu and then by just touching the knob, it drops right back to 45 and the chiller starts. Never any diagnostic, it's just the ucp1 "seeing" no cooling required and off cycling. Also one time, it apparently crashed when he switched from hold to auto on the vane control. Don't know if that's related, it may have been coincidental that the setpoint happened to drift passed the diff to stop setpoint at that moment. When I look at it, it will never do it. I can raise and lower setpoint and the display shows it being exactly where it should be for the knob position. I'm thinking just some contact cleaner might help it out. Any thoughts? When this starts to happen, is it just a matter of time before having to replace the 1U3 mod?
I've had to replace them when they fail internally before, just never seen this type of failure.

[klove]

There's a knob on a UCP2?

[ChillerWisperer]

There's a knob on a UCP2?

ucp2...did I say ucp2:det:

Yep...sorry. I meant ucp1.

Had ucp2 on the brain because I was thinking of another machine I was working on today.

[Healey Nut]

Sounds like a dirty pot to me . How do you plan to replace the 1U3 mod after December 31st 09??? Unless you have a spare already .

[txhvac]

UCP695. Assuming the sensor is good, try doing a power supply check out 1U2, verify 1U3 ops. CVHE-SB-22A should help. Hope this can help.

[Healey Nut]

Theres a complete UCP1 control on e-bay for sale . Brand new

[ChillerWisperer]

Sounds like a dirty pot to me . How do you plan to replace the 1U3 mod after December 31st 09??? Unless you have a spare already .

That's why I was wondering if I should just go ahead and replace it while it is still available.

[ChillerWisperer]

UCP695. Assuming the sensor is good, try doing a power supply check out 1U2, verify 1U3 ops. CVHE-SB-22A should help. Hope this can help.

Sensor appears to be good. Reading is spot on in ice water. I just pulled up SB-22 and was reading through it.

[drivewizard]

Sounds like a dirty POT like Graham said.
I have had pretty good luck getting them to work properly by turning them rapidly from limit to limit about 8-10 times.
Usually works. There is likey some lint or dust built up in the POT and that is all it takes to clear it.
Cheaper than replacing the whole Mod-.:.02:

[Randy S.]

One trick I've seen operators do with a UCP2 is to think, by enabling a temperature reset,
that they are resetting the fault holding the chiller out. Then I find it sitting there not loading up.

Haven't seen one make changes on its own, though.

[NWMech]

Also one time, it apparently crashed when he switched from hold to auto on the vane control.

Why is an operator messing with the manual vane control anyway? There's a problem all in its own! I love trying to figure something out based on information from a maintenance guy, but it never happens when you're there.

[ChillerWisperer]

One trick I've seen operators do with a UCP2 is to think, by enabling a temperature reset,
that they are resetting the fault holding the chiller out. Then I find it sitting there not loading up.

Haven't seen one make changes on its own, though.


It's a ucp1...sorry. See my earlier post correcting it.

[ChillerWisperer]

Why is an operator messing with the manual vane control anyway? There's a problem all in its own! I love trying to figure something out based on information from a maintenance guy, but it never happens when you're there.

He was logging it and one of the readings he logs is evap ref temp, which can only be accessed through the servicemans menu. He's been around this machine since it was installed in '87, and is very familiar with it so I don't have a problem with him doing that. Most operators...well, I'd have to agree with you there.

[Randy S.]

Duhhhhh. I need to pay attention.....

[ChillerWisperer]

Spritzed it with contact cleaner and ran it clockwise and counter-clockwise to the stops a few times and it seems to have done the trick so far. No funny readings from it in a day and a half.

[chiller rob]

we had one doing the same thing the other day...

the control respose was not holding its value...

we set it at 100 and then went back and looked at it later and it was back to 1.

the pot cycle trick worked on that one...

i would not buy a ucp1 on ebay...
personnally i think that is the worst panel they made... it is very limited...

ucp2 and up i like very much...

Chiller Rob

[MKnyc]

we were still soldering these in the field only 5 yrs ago if the compressors didn't blow yet cuz of dirty coils on the first RTAA's. lol.

[jemawalton]

we had one doing the same thing the other day...

the control respose was not holding its value...

we set it at 100 and then went back and looked at it later and it was back to 1.

the pot cycle trick worked on that one...

i would not buy a ucp1 on ebay...
personnally i think that is the worst panel they made... it is very limited...

ucp2 and up i like very much...

Chiller Rob

Attach it to a Tracer system and you would be amazed at what it can do. I agree, not much you can do from the panel, but for it's time, not a bad controller. Would you rather have a Classic Black?

[triggerhappy]

That's why I was wondering if I should just go ahead and replace it while it is still available.

Hey whisper I went to one doing the exact same thing to day.

Ordered an new 1U3 board. As of this afternoon Trane had 5 in stock.

[chiller mekanik]

MCS controls can custom make you a panel with a graphic display for far le$$ than you probably would think.

[MKnyc]

how much?

[triggerhappy]

MCS controls can custom make you a panel with a graphic display for far le$$ than you probably would think.
As far as I know Trane supports the stuff they sell for 20 years or more.

Are you sure that the company that you speak of will do the same.

I checked out their website and they have only been in business since 1994.
The question I have is will they still be around and supporting their flavor of the week in 20 years.

[klove]

As far as I know Trane supports the stuff they sell for 20 years or more.

Are you sure that the company that you speak of will do the same.

I checked out their website and they have only been in business since 1994.
The question I have is will they still be around and supporting their flavor of the week in 20 years.

With everyone buying and selling everyone else nowadays, I wonder if anbody's gonna be around to support their stuff. I went to the MCS website after I found out what Trane wants for an Adaptaview and jci wants for the Optiview. I worked for the mfr for a long time, and I know what they pay for this stuff. The prices they charge are absolutely ridiculous. jci wants over twice what we used to install the Optiview retrofit for just to sell me the kit. The mfrs are shooting themselves in the foot because of what they charge, but they are under the impression that the consumer should feel honored to do business with them and be able to buy their product. That's a tragic mistake in any industry. The MCS stuff is looking a lot more attractive, it apparently works, and 1994 was 15 years ago. That's not just a flash in the pan.

[ChillerWisperer]

I've worked on a few black box CVHEs that have been retrofitted with MCS controls and they work very well. They do some unorthodox things like cycle the condenser pump in the applications I saw, but overall it's a good setup with a lot of parameters in the display and the ability to log diagnostics which is a huge improvement over the black box. I was kind of wondering how much the retrofits were, now that I'm in a position to try and sell some. I'm also going to check into if they will let contractors install the controls after being trained on them. The company is just South of me in Fort Myers and I know they offer training classes, but they may just be for operating the controls and not installing them. I'll get back with some info.

[triggerhappy]

With everyone buying and selling everyone else nowadays, I wonder if anbody's gonna be around to support their stuff. I went to the MCS website after I found out what Trane wants for an Adaptaview and jci wants for the Optiview. I worked for the mfr for a long time, and I know what they pay for this stuff. The prices they charge are absolutely ridiculous. jci wants over twice what we used to install the Optiview retrofit for just to sell me the kit. The mfrs are shooting themselves in the foot because of what they charge, but they are under the impression that the consumer should feel honored to do business with them and be able to buy their product. That's a tragic mistake in any industry. The MCS stuff is looking a lot more attractive, it apparently works, and 1994 was 15 years ago. That's not just a flash in the pan.

I don't know about the price being so out of line.

The Adaptiview retrofit is just a little bit more than a bearing inspection and regasket (if you replace the bearings and why wouldn't you if you are in that deep).

I would not be upset to have to replace bearings every 10yrs. or so for total reliablity.

So what is the big deal of upgrading the control system after 20yrs?( and some have gone much longer, I have one bench grinder still with original control panel vintage 1954 or so. I think it has the electronic LLR retrofit.)

As for my question about the MCS stuff it may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but my question is can you still get parts for the stuff that they put out 5,10, or 15yrs ago. I don't know the answer to that.

[klove]

I don't know about the price being so out of line.

The Adaptiview retrofit is just a little bit more than a bearing inspection and regasket (if you replace the bearings and why wouldn't you if you are in that deep).

Please tell me you're kidding when you allude to the fact that there's not a problem when the simple changeout of a control panel on a package chiller costs more than unstacking/restacking a 3 stage Trane compressor plus parts cost. Please.............

And it's not about the frequency of the job, it's the simple fact that this stuff just don't cost that much.

[triggerhappy]

What can I tell you. Electronics are expensive, and we get 5 days to do the conversion.

We pull the gas so we can get the sensors and wells in like the factory.

As far as the price goes, how does it rate to the raw materials that it take to make something. I don't know but I payed $5oo for a Glock the other day and as far as I can see it is some plastic and a little metal.

I also like to use the analogy about the cost of lets say a oil pres reg. block assembley on a CVHF compared to something along those lines in a Chevy 350 motor. There are many reasons why prices are different.

[jemawalton]

Please tell me you're kidding when you allude to the fact that there's not a problem when the simple changeout of a control panel on a package chiller costs more than unstacking/restacking a 3 stage Trane compressor plus parts cost. Please.............

And it's not about the frequency of the job, it's the simple fact that this stuff just don't cost that much.


The "stuff" may not cost that much but the R&D and development that went into it cost quite a bit.

[klove]

The "stuff" may not cost that much but the R&D and development that went into it cost quite a bit.

I know what we sold it for at York, and I know that we made the margins that were required for the company to grow. Noone minds paying for R&D, but the mfrs have gotten to the point that they want to charge every customer for the whole pie, instead of their slice. Got a price on a retro to an Adaptaview the other day, and it was right at 2 1/2 times what we used to do an Optiview retro for with all the labor on OT. But it's not just Trane - jci wants 3 times what we used to sell the kit for (parts only). Yeah, that's been 3 years ago, but prices haven't gone up 300%. I also have relatives that are in electronics, and the "stuff" just ain't that expensive, per those that know.

[stickerhead]

With everyone buying and selling everyone else nowadays, I wonder if anbody's gonna be around to support their stuff. I went to the MCS website after I found out what Trane wants for an Adaptaview and jci wants for the Optiview. I worked for the mfr for a long time, and I know what they pay for this stuff. The prices they charge are absolutely ridiculous. jci wants over twice what we used to install the Optiview retrofit for just to sell me the kit. The mfrs are shooting themselves in the foot because of what they charge, but they are under the impression that the consumer should feel honored to do business with them and be able to buy their product. That's a tragic mistake in any industry. The MCS stuff is looking a lot more attractive, it apparently works, and 1994 was 15 years ago. That's not just a flash in the pan.

Amen brother! MCS has been around longer than 15 years. It was another company before that that was sold to Danfos. John Walterick designed the NP-24 controler on the Dunham Bush screw chille and was in supermarket refrigeration before that. I have sold my 15th MCS conversion with no issues. I have them on Trane pneumatic, black classic and UCP695, Carrier 19DK's, EF's, York recips, McQuay ALS. What I like is "one size fits all!"