Train Wreck of an Install

[grimbot]

A/C had to be replaced last week and used a recommendation from a friend. After this guy and his helper were done, I checked it out and could not believe what a @#$% job these guys did.

The guy's helper that was half-a-tard... He reversed the front and back rails on the case which prevented the access panels from fitting correctly. Instead of fixing it, they just taped up the case with Foil Grip, leaving the screws on the floor. I said to myself... just clean it up and find a new guy in the future... BUT in doing so I found that they fired a screw into the heat exchanger. I can't see the screw from inside the heat exchange area. It hasn't penetrated the tubes but you can see where it goes in from the furnace access panels... Don't want to these guys touching anything again but willing to go after them to repair or replace the heat exchanger. I need an opinion on the severity of this penetration. Can it be left alone? Thanks...

[Juleous]

It looks like it just went into the front vestibule panel and not into the tubes but it's hard to say for sure. Call some one else in to give the install a once over to be sure they didn't do anything else stupid that you can not see.

[heaterman]

It should be fine. The HE tubes are fastened to a plate behind the stamped cover the screw looks like it went down behind that plate.

[dandyme]

It should be fine. The HE tubes are fastened to a plate behind the stamped cover the screw looks like it wnet down behind that plate.

yea.............
what he said
does look crappy though


is that flue pipe tied in?

[DanW13]

If it were me I would tell this contractor to come and rip thisone out and put itinhis house and give you any money you paid him back and call another company to reinstall a newfurnace To even walk away forma job with this kind of workmanship is something I really can't state here but I think you can figure it out.

This company/contractor is unprofessional IMO and if I were there from the beginning and realized there professionalism from the start I would have had them pick there tools up and leave. These are what your should consider hacks and nothing less than !!!

[fritzhvac]

[choo choo
MY GOD, I hope your getting an inspection!!! Did your friend who suggested you use cousin festers crew come over for a beer...What about that vent. There is no excuse for that garbage, I'd be scared to even to let them back in house. You definitely need someone to take a close look... Just for a safety stand point.

[air2spare]

looks like side job work

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

looks like side job work

Exactly...
Looks like a side job Bob installation. Let me guess, he was cheap?...

[the dangling wrangler]

If it were me I would tell this contractor to come and rip thisone out and put itinhis house and give you any money you paid him back and call another company to reinstall a newfurnace To even walk away forma job with this kind of workmanship is something I really can't state here but I think you can figure it out.

This company/contractor is unprofessional IMO and if I were there from the beginning and realized there professionalism from the start I would have had them pick there tools up and leave. These are what your should consider hacks and nothing less than !!!

Tell us, about how many units you've installed, to be making those bold statements.


Really need more information before I'll say any more.
I do feel say saying, this wasn't the highest priced contractor, for sure.

[DanW13]

Deosn't matter how many furnaces I installed, which is none !!! But I will tell you I know good workmanship when I see it , and I know that if this was in my house they would have been shown the door. I would never, never do that type of work for anyone and walk away knowing what was left behind, how about you ? If you ran some screw in thru some place they don't belong, ding, and mangled parts of a completely new furnace, and you would leave it like that and expect to get paid, really !!!!

So you think just because I nor anyone else is allowed to make these BOLD statements besides those who install this equipment is in itself a pretty BOLD statement don't ya think ??? I would suspect from your comments that you would be the type to leave a install like this and call it good :LOL:

[grimbot]

Thanks for the responses... The more I read, the more pissed I get... Can't say he was the cheapest but got half pregnant with this guy when he tested the old system. Can't have him in the house any more. Trying to get a plan together to recover some of the $$ paid to him... My poor wife cut him a check before I saw the work so... the toothpaste is already out of the tube and I've spent 4 days undoing alot of his bull@#$%. Ironically, these guys were laughing about how alot of guys out there connect some flex duct and all of a sudden consider themselves HVAC Techs... According to them, I guess I should be a Master Tech by now... I'll let you know what happens... Thanks again.

[the dangling wrangler]

Deosn't matter how many furnaces I installed, which is none !!! But I will tell you I know good workmanship when I see it , and I know that if this was in my house they would have been shown the door. I would never, never do that type of work for anyone and walk away knowing what was left behind, how about you ? If you ran some screw in thru some place they don't belong, ding, and mangled parts of a completely new furnace, and you would leave it like that and expect to get paid, really !!!!

So you think just because I nor anyone else is allowed to make these BOLD statements besides those who install this equipment is in itself a pretty BOLD statement don't ya think ??? I would suspect from your comments that you would be the type to leave a install like this and call it good :LOL:

Whatever you say .

[bjones]

grimbot, What you've shared with us in all liklyhood is probably just the tip of the iceburg.

I'd be willing to bet there are other things wrong with this installation, things that you can't see, that you don't know about.

Did he do a manual "J" load calculation to determine the proper sized unit?

Did he inspect and insure that the system will match your existing ductwork? If so, did he connect the new furnace properly to your ductwork? Did he inspect your ductwork for leakage?

Are the refrigerant lines the proper size for the unit and installed correctly? Did he evacuate and purgethe lines? Did he properly charge the system using the super heat method?

Did he balance the system? Did he record all the duct pressures, temperture readings and refrigerent charges?

If these things were not done correctly, you may have an installtion that is going to shorten the life of the equipment and cost you more money in utility costs every month because of the inefficiency of a poorly installed system.

It's far better to pay up front for a reputable company to the installtion right then to pay for a improperly installed system every month with higer utility bills. What's it costing you everymonth? $20, $30, $40 a month more in higher utility bills? Over the life of the system, this could add up thousands.

Quess what I would do?

[GetYourShineBox]

how did they manage to scratch the piss out of the panel in the second pic? rofl. looks like someone had a seizure while holding the drill.

[grimbot]

shinebox... probably had a seizure after getting poked in both eyes with a sharp stick... I don't know what to say. It most likely has something to do with the fact that the rail attached to the furnace in that second pic should be on the other side. Thats why there's such a gap between the panel and rail... On the right side, the panel overlaps the rail by 1/2 inch... Go figure.

bjones... You've hit upon my biggest fear... I know I don't know crap about the things you've mentioned... This was a straight swap out... 5 ton for 5 ton... no measurements or calcs done. It was the AC guys opinion that the supply ducting was undersized for the upstairs but I think it was more of a wild ass guess. As far as leakage... They introduced more leakage and I was forced to learn quickly about plenums, start colars, mastic, scrim etc... Really was a bad descision on my part to hire them - made worse by not pulling the plug once I started to question their ability...

[DanW13]

Just out of curiosity was a permit pulled for this job ? I would have had a load calc done, it's pretty rare for most homes to need 5 tons of cooling chances are your equipment is over sized unless the orginal install was figured correctly.

[grimbot]

No permit... Don't know about the sizing... Simply replaced the old with the same size unit...

[simplyrollin]

Out of curiosity, why did you use these guys and not a professional company? Price? Gee, kind of got what you paid for and not in a real good position to complain.....also, looks like an old Goodman furnace, and new coils, did they replace the furnace too. Did you know going in, these guys were not licensed? I think a lot of people on here will just kind of grin when seeing this type of work. Its these idiots that take work away from all of us REAL mechanical contractors, and subsequently drive installation costs in the dirt, just because cousin amigo done it for cheap, why cant you??? Thats the mentality of homeowners. As far as the screw, your OK there, no need to worry.

[udarrell]

No permit... Don't know about the sizing... Simply replaced the old with the same size unit...
No permit, well if your in a city with a code they should be in big trouble!

These are the situations that drive me crazy, - it is obvious that the HVAC consumer & a lot of so-called techs' need a ton of education.

Public radio & TV broadcast media could help with education & instruction!

You have to evaluate the home, the entire system for sizing, including the duct system & airflow, - & then begin to do things correctly & in the proper order of sequence.

I feel bad for the consumer, because some contractors' are only in it for the money, they either don't know what they are doing or don't care! My 2-cents :.02: - Darrell

[catmanacman]

A/C had to be replaced last week and used a recommendation from a friend. After this guy and his helper were done, I checked it out and could not believe what a @#$% job these guys did.

The guy's helper that was half-a-tard... He reversed the front and back rails on the case which prevented the access panels from fitting correctly. Instead of fixing it, they just taped up the case with Foil Grip, leaving the screws on the floor. I said to myself... just clean it up and find a new guy in the future... BUT in doing so I found that they fired a screw into the heat exchanger. I can't see the screw from inside the heat exchange area. It hasn't penetrated the tubes but you can see where it goes in from the furnace access panels... Don't want to these guys touching anything again but willing to go after them to repair or replace the heat exchanger. I need an opinion on the severity of this penetration. Can it be left alone? Thanks...

some friend :oops:

[dreianj]

I'm sorry friend. Things like that mess you have there shouldn't ever happen. They should definitely lose their licences for that kind of work. Makes everyone else look bad. May be unsafe for you as well. At the very least, as was said before, get it checked out by someone reputable. Next time your buddy says "Don't worry, I have a friend." , brain him with something, drag him outside and pretend the conversation never happened ;-).

[Twilly]

Twilli says a little duct tape and it will be fine

[heaterman]

Twilli says a little duct tape and it will be fine

Spoken like a true commercial installer :LOL:

[bjones]

Twilli says a little duct tape and it will be fine

I think I've see some of your jobs...:)

[bjones]

Twilli says a little duct tape and it will be fine

I think I've seen some of your jobs...:)

[Atticmonkey777]

I believe i would be making a nice little phone call to the permit office. Get a fire lit under some hack buns.:det:

[catmanacman]

Twilli says a little duct tape and it will be fine

and a lot of mastic

[absoair]

Out of curiosity, why did you use these guys and not a professional company? Price? Gee, kind of got what you paid for and not in a real good position to complain.....also, looks like an old Goodman furnace, and new coils, did they replace the furnace too. Did you know going in, these guys were not licensed? I think a lot of people on here will just kind of grin when seeing this type of work. Its these idiots that take work away from all of us REAL mechanical contractors, and subsequently drive installation costs in the dirt, just because cousin amigo done it for cheap, why cant you??? Thats the mentality of homeowners. As far as the screw, your OK there, no need to worry.

In my area, where I am a lic. mechanical contractor, the homeowner is responsible when an unlicensed contractor is used on a job.

[crmont]

A/C had to be replaced last week and used a recommendation from a friend. After this guy and his helper were done, I checked it out and could not believe what a @#$% job these guys did.

The guy's helper that was half-a-tard... He reversed the front and back rails on the case which prevented the access panels from fitting correctly. Instead of fixing it, they just taped up the case with Foil Grip, leaving the screws on the floor. I said to myself... just clean it up and find a new guy in the future... BUT in doing so I found that they fired a screw into the heat exchanger. I can't see the screw from inside the heat exchange area. It hasn't penetrated the tubes but you can see where it goes in from the furnace access panels... Don't want to these guys touching anything again but willing to go after them to repair or replace the heat exchanger. I need an opinion on the severity of this penetration. Can it be left alone? Thanks...

I need a "This thread is worthless with pictures" avatar. Yes the door is bent but you removed the doors and flue pipe didn't you? The screw is definitely no big deal. I would be more concerned with the refrigeration aspect of the install more than what I've seen. However the axillary drain pan does not extend completely under the coil cabinet. Murphy says if it leaks, it will leak there.

[grimbot]

crmont... Not sure what your avatar comment means and seems that you're suggesting that I "bent" the "door" when I removed it. The door as you refer to it isn't bent... The bent piece with the screw going through it into the HE is what is refered to in the installation instructions as the "Back Rail"... However, the installers reversed the Back Rail and what you see in the pictures is actually the "Front Rail". Thats why it looks so retarded and the panels don't fit...

Anyways, I've corrected all of that and I'm having another company inspect the install...

bjones... I'd like to use your suggestions for things to ask for from the new company... Thanks...

[mike dixon]

the original poster of this probably got what he asked for, probably beat them down in price, whined and cryed too

[the dangling wrangler]

the original poster of this probably got what he asked for, probably beat them down in price, whined and cryed too

:LOL:

[Twilly]

I think I've seen some of your jobs...:)


Twilli gets a huge AT discount on tape:LOL:

[crmont]

crmont... Not sure what your avatar comment means and seems that you're suggesting that I "bent" the "door" when I removed it. The door as you refer to it isn't bent... The bent piece with the screw going through it into the HE is what is refered to in the installation instructions as the "Back Rail"... However, the installers reversed the Back Rail and what you see in the pictures is actually the "Front Rail". Thats why it looks so retarded and the panels don't fit...

Anyways, I've corrected all of that and I'm having another company inspect the install...

bjones... I'd like to use your suggestions for things to ask for from the new company... Thanks...

All I'm saying is don't get to exited about the bent door, front rail or whatever and using tape to seal the door. All of that is cosmetic. Your pictures are of a very specific spot on the system. We could get a little better idea I suppose if we had a picture of the whole unit but no picture is going to provide us with all of the relevant details of the install. Your making a jump from a bent door and a screw to "the whole thing must suck" attitude and some people here are just fanning the flames IMHO.

[grimbot]

crmont... Thanks for the response... I was really just looking for an opinion on the screw in the HE... Got what I needed on that account... As far as the whole install goes... wasn't looking for any opinions, but the thread does seem to have gotten away from the original question. As it stands, from an attention to detail perspective, I don't need any advice on whether the install sucks. Mike Dixon... got anything else??? ...then STFU.

Thanks to those that offered some real opinions and help...

Any admins out there, feel free to shut this thread down...

[Twilly]

Twilli sasy what does STFU mean? Some Tape For U?

[udarrell]

Twilli says what does STFU mean? Some Tape For U?
Thanks for that one Twilli, I'll be laughing all day.
I would have never thought of that one.
Maybe some tape for the keyboard, huh...? :payattention: Ha! - Darrell

[Twilly]

Sometimes Twilli Flies United

[the dangling wrangler]

the original poster of this probably got what he asked for, probably beat them down in price, whined and cryed too

Mike, if you can pm me do so.

[crmont]

crmont... Thanks for the response... I was really just looking for an opinion on the screw in the HE... Got what I needed on that account... As far as the whole install goes... wasn't looking for any opinions, but the thread does seem to have gotten away from the original question. As it stands, from an attention to detail perspective, I don't need any advice on whether the install sucks. Mike Dixon... got anything else??? ...then STFU.

Thanks to those that offered some real opinions and help...

Any admins out there, feel free to shut this thread down...

No prob grimbot. Good luck.

[mcginkleschmidt]

Sometimes Twilli Flies United

That statement reminded me of lovebugs that fly around united and are a real mess.

[MechComf]

I need a "This thread is worthless with pictures" avatar. Yes the door is bent but you removed the doors and flue pipe didn't you? The screw is definitely no big deal. I would be more concerned with the refrigeration aspect of the install more than what I've seen. However the axillary drain pan does not extend completely under the coil cabinet. Murphy says if it leaks, it will leak there.

The auxilliary drain pan looks like a rubbermaid lid to me:LOL:

[crmont]

The auxilliary drain pan looks like a rubbermaid lid to me:LOL:

I think your right.