Best Ventilation

[vanp]

Hi, I'm new to the site. I wanted to get some unbiased opinions.
I want to improve the air quality in my home, due to respiratory problems.
I want to have a heat recovery ventilator with a built in HEPA filter installed.
If I get an HRV installed, do I still need to get a better air filter for my furnace?
What is the best type of filtration? (Electronic air cleaner, Media filter.)
What is the best combination of equipment to improve air quality and reduce humidity?
Thank You, your help would be very much appreciated.

[Cold Feet]

As far as I know, there isn't any scientific evidence that residential-grade filters help with asthma or allergies. The best you can hope to get is a filter that keeps your HVAC system clean.

Get a 4" media filter without any electronics. Electronic air cleaners produce ozone, which is bad for lung function. Thinner filters are bad for system static pressure.

[DaveH2]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just don't buy in to the whole 'Ozone' argument about EAC's (Trane Clean Effects in particular). The amount of ozone they produce is so minimal compared to what you pick up out in the real world that I don't see how it can be of concern. The good that these filters do far outweighs any so called health concerns that everyone keeps talking about. If they are all that bad, then how can they even be approved for sale? Lot's of pros here seem to be down on them, but the reports you see from home owners who actually own and use them is overwhelmingly positive. I'll probably get flamed for this since I seem to be in the minority on this board, but I'm sorry....I just don't buy it.

[Carnak]

ERV, media air cleaner on furnace, small dehumidifier for summer

[kls-ccc]

My first question is your house that tight that it need an ERV? If it is a new house it probably is, a 15 yr old house probably isn't. I had an electronic filter in my house, had to clean the post filter every 3 months, put in a Trane clean effects after 9 months took out the post filter as it was still clean. The Clean effects needs to be cleaned 3-6 times a yr depending on use.

[DanW13]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just don't buy in to the whole 'Ozone' argument about EAC's (Trane Clean Effects in particular). The amount of ozone they produce is so minimal compared to what you pick up out in the real world that I don't see how it can be of concern. The good that these filters do far outweighs any so called health concerns that everyone keeps talking about. If they are all that bad, then how can they even be approved for sale? Lot's of pros here seem to be down on them, but the reports you see from home owners who actually own and use them is overwhelmingly positive. I'll probably get flamed for this since I seem to be in the minority on this board, but I'm sorry....I just don't buy it.

I'll second your opinion !!! Most do not realize just how much Ozone there is out there in small metropolitan cities. towns compared to what a EAC produce's they really have no clue. I believe most still live by the old claims they might have read 20 yrs ago where they might have had an effect on a persons health, but today they have comes strides above what or how they did produce Ozone.

The Honey Well 5000 is one of the top EAC's on the market today along with Tranes Clean Effect's of course there's a big cost disparity between the 2 but with the Honey Well you get the best Bang for your buck !!! All the electronics in homes today along with high power lines running amok all over the country produces Ozone no one realizes but likes to forget about why I don't know, maybe it's because no one brings it up in conversation over the EAC's of yesterday, LOL !!!

[teddy bear]

Most homes in cold climates leak enough fresh during cold weather. Leaky homes leak very little during warm summer weather. If you are getting enough fresh air during winter, the benifits of an ERV are minimal. In addition, the exhaust appliances in your home need make-up air to function properly throughout the year. ERVs do not provide make-up air for exhaust device like the clothes drier, kitchen/bath exhaust,
Considering the need for fresh, filtered, dry air during the milder, wetter times a year, a ventilating, whole house dehumidifier is the best single device for providing specific amounts of fresh, filtered air in green grass climates. Near hepa air filters are a available to filter the fresh/house air as part of the ventilating whole dehumidifier. The unit is an Ultra-Aire with the optional air filtering package. They are able to be connected to the whole house via your heating cooling system.
If your home is very air tight without the need for fresh make-up air during cold weather, the whole house dehus can also be used with an ERV.
http://www.thermastor.com/Ultra-Aire-UA-135H/Ultra-Aire-UA-135H-Spec.pdf
What part of the Country do you live in? What are the signs that your home needs fresh air during cold windy weather?
Regards TB

[vanp]

THX for your replies, you've all been very helpful.
In response to some queries, I live in Toronto, Canada.
The determining factor for wanting an HRV is the very generous government rebate that will make the unit cost a few hundred dollars out of pocket.
My house is 30 yrs old, it is currently heated by electric radiant heating with no HVAC, it has brand new energy efficient windows installed airtight.
I am going to have designed ductwork and all high efficiency equipment installed.
My concern for air quality comes from the strong mildew smell coming from the basement; this smell also reaches the upper levels.
My basement is unfinished. I am confident there are no water leaks in the basement, and there are no signs of mold on any structure of the house.
Although if I accidentally leave a cardboard box on the basement slab for any extended period of time, I will find mold on the box.
Maybe just having air circulation in the house will help with the mildew smell.
I would like to have the best air possible in the house.
I hired an independent HVAC designer who designed my ductwork but didn't address any advanced air filtration, I would ask him but unfortunately he died.
Can anyone give me an unbiased opinion on what equipment I should ad to my new HVAC system.

Thank You..................Van

[DanW13]

Foryour basement for a quick fix just take a box fan and run it on low speed to move the air around will help with the moisture your having which is moving up thru your basement slab. They must not have put a vapor barrier under the slab or any type of insulation like a faom bd. insulation generally 2" thick insulation bd.

[Cold Feet]

The amount of ozone they produce is so minimal compared to what you pick up out in the real world that I don't see how it can be of concern.

My personal experience with a Carrier/Bryant's EAC is that it put out enough ozone to cause significant breathing difficulties. Maybe the unit I had was defective but I've not had anything to do with EACs since.


The good that these filters do far outweighs any so called health concerns that everyone keeps talking about.

There is no evidence that EACs have any health benefits.


If they are all that bad, then how can they even be approved for sale?

There are no regulations governing ozone generated by EACs.



Most homes in cold climates leak enough fresh during cold weather. Leaky homes leak very little during warm summer weather. If you are getting enough fresh air during winter, the benifits of an ERV are minimal.

Not necessarily. If summer leakage is so low that indoor air gets stale, then an HRV has definite benefits.


Considering the need for fresh, filtered, dry air during the milder, wetter times a year, a ventilating, whole house dehumidifier is the best single device for providing specific amounts of fresh, filtered air in green grass climates.

The OP has indicated he's in Toronto, which isn't a green grass climate.

[DanW13]

The OP would be better off with a ERV running continuious with a percentage run timer all year long. The amount of Ozone from EAC is minimal and I don't recall anyone saying they have a health benefit so I don't know where you read that.

[DaveH2]

My personal experience with a Carrier/Bryant's EAC is that it put out enough ozone to cause significant breathing difficulties. Maybe the unit I had was defective but I've not had anything to do with EACs since.

Basing this all on a single experience with a single unit, and without attempting to fix the problem, is not indicative of a bad product or design.




There is no evidence that EACs have any health benefits.


Well, independant lab testing on the Clean Effects came up with some pretty amazing conclusions. Take it for what its worth.
Besides, there is no evidence that they (EAC's) *don't* have health benefits. Someone I met here locally has been using a Clean Effects for a couple of years now....he and his wife have mild allergies which have subsided, and he said they haven't been sick with colds nearly as often as before they installed the CE.

This same guy had one installed in his son's home (his grandson has severe asthma). He said that although his grandson's asthma is not totally gone, the symptoms and attacks have been dramatically reduced.

Do a Google search and read what other CE users say....there are some pretty impressive reports on the CE. Or don't, it's all the same to me. You'll find some scattered complaints as well as praises, but for every complaint you read about there are probably a dozen more who are satisfied that you don't hear from.



There are no regulations governing ozone generated by EACs.


This could very well be be....I don't know anything about that. But like I mentioned earlier, I don't think Trane is going to build something that they know can be proven to cause health issues. There are too many money-hungry vultures and lawyers out there waiting to pounce on that sort of thing.

What I've gotten out my researching of the CE, is that the big thing with EAC's is that you really need to be faithful in regards to the maintenance. I just had a Clean Effects installed this week....I'll report back later as to how it works out, but so far so good.

[DanW13]

For some reason EAC's are getting a bad rap here by both the Pro's and those who are HO's why I don't know. But if most of the Pro's and Ho's were to reasearch EAC's' the'll find that the amount of Ozone is so minimal most if any will be able to tell the difference and the majority of those will only think they can tell it's not doing anything only because there mind has been made up prior to trying one.

Like Dave suggest, research them and read all you can both good and bad and I would be willing to bet there's more good reports to read than con's on any subjective part about EAC's. I know first hand that if your a smoker they do a really good job in collecting the smoke on the cells, sure I have to clean mine more often but it's not that big of a deal to clean if you have the right products to clean them and do it properly.

Cost wise, between a EAC and say a 4" Media filter the cost I'll bet are pretty much the same, possibly more if your using the 4" media and running your blower motor 24/7. Those 4" media filter cost an average of $28 apiece compared to a few Watts of electric for one year doesn't cost anymore than a Media filter and certainly not more than twice the cost of 2 media filters along with a 1hr of your time to clen them monthly or every 3 months it's not alot of work.

[wahoo]

Our only problem with EAC units is that the "power pack" part of the air cleaner does not last long enough and is expensive to replace. Seldom do I find an EAC over 10 years old still working with the original power pack inside. They work fine, however the power head is expensive, and the warranty generally only covers it for up to 3 years. Only notice "ozone" if maintenance is not performed, and unit is allowed to become grossly dirty!

[DanW13]

I got a Honeywell EAC that is going on 14yrs old no problems with teh power unit. The AprileAire 5000 is reasonably priced and if something is going to take a dump on you it will be within the first year ot two or sooner after that it should outlast the warranty IMO. EAC are no different than De-Humidifiers, how many of those have you purchased in your lifetime, They never last longer than 3 or 4 years right and if you go to buy replacement parts there going to cost almost half of what a new one cost so your always better off buying a new one.

All appliances are the same no different, sure the warranty is a 10yr P & L like some equipment is but it's only a small appliance and not something your spending $5,$6, or $7,000 where you expect the item to last for half a lifetime right.

IMO it's a horse apiece between the EAC and purchasing Media filters for the next 20yrs or buy a EAC and keep it maintained and your upkeep is minimal. The choice is yours.

[DanW13]

I forgot to mention also, if the power packs keep going out then it's sounds like a grounding issue that is giving you problems. Iff the electrical equipment is not properly grounded weather it's the EAC, furnace, Ac/HP or other items like flat screens, microwaves, refrigerators, PC's and you are lucky enough to get a lighting strike that's all it takes and most likely is all you need to blow something and with all the bds being used in most everything we buy today it would be wise to smart power strips, and proper grounds inplace.

[vanp]

I want to thank everyone for your advice. I have a lot to consider.
If installing a media filter is much less expensive, I may try that out first.
If i'm not satisfied, I can switch to an EAC later.

Thank you................Van

[teddy bear]

I want to thank everyone for your advice. I have a lot to consider.
If installing a media filter is much less expensive, I may try that out first.
If i'm not satisfied, I can switch to an EAC later.

Thank you................Van
Fresh air and <50% RH are a lot more important than an air filter.
Regards TB