Carrier Evaporator Coil Failure -- Advice Please!

[nathanbgross]

My a/c unit is a split level w/ the air handler in our attic and the compressor outside on the side of our house. It was installed in a newly constructed home about 3.5 years ago. Recently our upstairs unit stopped blowing cool air but otherwise worked fine. I noticed that the copper line to the compressor was not cold like the unit for my downstairs so it seemed like no freon was running to it. I called a tech who came out and did the diagnostic work to narrow down the leak in the air handler within my attic. He used the electronic testing method (not nitrogen to pressurize the system). He was not able to pinpoint the leak within the evaporator coils using soapy bubbles, but he did show me using a blacklight where there was green dye in the drain pan underneath the coil that the installer had put into the system to help identify any leaks that occurred later on. He also showed me that there was A LOT of rust on the evaporator coil and said that was extremely uncommon on an indoor unit (albeit the attic) and that he hadn't seen this much rust on a unit that was 10+ years old. Having said all of that, given the dye was in the pan under the evaporator coil, wouldn't that suggest that there is a leak in that coil? Would you expect a 3.5 yr old unit to have a lot of rust on it?

Aside from the pricing which I won't get into here, it sounds like this is a big job....based on knowledge from HVAC experienced people or consumers who has been in the same position before, does all of this sound reasonable or should I get someone else out to get a second opinion? Thanks a lot!

[MechComf]

Carrier was not alone in this, but did have a lot of problems with evaporator coils developing leaks.
The leaks are caused by formicary action. Formicary action became a problem with the introduction new manufacturing processes.
This has since been addressed by Carrier through tin plating.
The job isn't a terribly difficult one, but is compounded by being in an attic.
My advice would be sure to request a tin plated coil from your contractor.

In most instances the leaks in these coils is not related to the rust your tech saw, but rather the leaks are in the middle of the coil in the aluminum fin covered areas.

Carrier coils are normally warranteed for 5 years. This will cover the cost of the coil, but not your techs time. He will rightfully be paid for his services.
Hope this helps.
Brett

[nathanbgross]

Thanks! Any idea how I would go about getting a warranty replacement evaporator coil from Carrier? Can any contractor do it? Or can I just have them ship it to me? Thanks.

[wahoo]

You would have better luck getting a warrantied coil when using a Carrier authorized dealer!! Good luck, and yes, there still should be a warranty on this coil as most all coils have at least a 5 year warranty!

[69ragtop]

I had a Carrier coild go bad after four years and had it replaced under warranty with me paying labor. The new one failed after three years and is not under warranty since it was a warranty replacement. I will definitely be going with the tin plated version this time.

[nathanbgross]

Since we're not allowed to talk about price on this forum, would you mind emailing me at nathanbgross@.com directly so that I can benchmark what kind of hurting I'm getting ready to go through to pay for the labor to replace my evaporator coil? Thanks a lot.

[Adnshel]

It drives me crazy when home owners make it sound like we are STICKING it to them. For all the schooling we attend, and the responsibility we have with regulations and quality installations, we earn the wages we make and I do not appreciate it when customers talk that way.

[nathanbgross]

Adnshel - Get over yourself....we all work hard for our dollars and we want to just make good decisions with our limited $'s. The fact that you guys have the experience and the education in this industry and literally NO ONE else does puts these types of repairs in an immediate distrust mode just naturally. But once you find a tech you can trust, why is it you're afraid when consumers benchmark their pricing to make sure it's sensible to them? Too much ripping off of customers going on in this practice...period! You might not be one of those doing this, but it definitely is prevalent in your business...so spend your effort fixing that vs. trying to call out respectable homeowners who are just trying to understand and protect themselves during a huge investment like this. Do you have any legitimate feedback about my A/C issue or are you just using this forum to complain?

[twosticks]

Nathan, remove your e-mail from your post. It's not allowed. Labor rates will

vary from region to region, even between companies in the same area.

Contact a couple of contractors in your area for an estimate.

[diesel65]

Adnshel - Get over yourself....we all work hard for our dollars and we want to just make good decisions with our limited $'s. The fact that you guys have the experience and the education in this industry and literally NO ONE else does puts these types of repairs in an immediate distrust mode just naturally. But once you find a tech you can trust, why is it you're afraid when consumers benchmark their pricing to make sure it's sensible to them? Too much ripping off of customers going on in this practice...period! You might not be one of those doing this, but it definitely is prevalent in your business...so spend your effort fixing that vs. trying to call out respectable homeowners who are just trying to understand and protect themselves during a huge investment like this. Do you have any legitimate feedback about my A/C issue or are you just using this forum to complain?

Your point about ripping off customers is a valid one, and one that I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to stop, maybe one day.

The majority of the guy's here are stand up business men and you won't get better info on HVAC anywhere else.

As to your coil.... you are already out of refrigerant , I have in the past pulled coils, brazed on some schraeder's and pressure tested with nitro, this may be an option to pin point your problem and give you peace of mind, if cost allows, or you can trust your tech and have the coil replaced under warranty.

[m kilgore]

Adnshel - Get over yourself....we all work hard for our dollars and we want to just make good decisions with our limited $'s. The fact that you guys have the experience and the education in this industry and literally NO ONE else does puts these types of repairs in an immediate distrust mode just naturally. But once you find a tech you can trust, why is it you're afraid when consumers benchmark their pricing to make sure it's sensible to them? Too much ripping off of customers going on in this practice...period! You might not be one of those doing this, but it definitely is prevalent in your business...so spend your effort fixing that vs. trying to call out respectable homeowners who are just trying to understand and protect themselves during a huge investment like this. Do you have any legitimate feedback about my A/C issue or are you just using this forum to complain?

Nathan-maybe you need to get over yourself. Where do you get the idea that you can come to our forum where we give our proffesional advise for FREE and try to help you and call most of our industry thieves. We are addicted to this site and helping people and the folks on this site are true proffessionals. you get what you pay for in this industry and if you want your job done correctly then you should expect to pay for it.

I think you should take your coil problems and go elsewhere to solve the problem. Don't insult us and then ask for help.:cliff:

[Adnshel]

There isn't anything to say that has not already been said. Getting the evap coil replaced with the updated coil is the way to go.

Nathan, if you only knew how many customers want something for nothing. You should see how many customers try to blame their system problems on techs doing cleaning/checkup
calls, knowing their system is faulty and not wanting to pay for a repair.

[nathanbgross]

Adnshel - Touche', all fair points...I absolutely see where you're coming from but you should really try to do the same before you starting slinging accusations... The only question that I've asked that no one seems to want to answer though is about the leak detecting dye. It was mixed w/ the freon when the original installer did the system install; when I use a black light, nothing glows under the 'good unit' but the 'bad unit' glows like a light. Is that the dye I'm seeing glow or could that just be some other normal part of condensation, rust, or freon that I'm seeing in the drip pan that may not really indicate the coil is leaking. That's the only part I haven't gotten closure on. Thanks!

[Adnshel]

Nathan, I would guess that others aren't commenting because it is not a normal practice for an installer to put dye in when installing the system. Since we cannot see the system for ourselves we don't want to give you misinformation.

[nathanbgross]

m kilgore - Pipe down buddy. I get you guys are all passionate about what you do, but when someone starts making accusations about me I'm absolutely going to stand up to that. My comments, on the other hand, were not based on 0 knowledge of the other person(s) involved....I paid (yes, paid for so not trying to be a cheap ass, as you guys continue to try to parlay) for 4 different techs to come out and diagnose my problem and got 4 different answers and wildly different quotes...from $275 to $940. These were all licensed reps from Carrier dealers, so how do you explain the lack of competency and/or price gouging I'm seeing here, other than to question their integrity??? Again, I wasn't making a comment about you, so don't it personally; my comment was based on real and actual proof. But if you want to try to defend folks like the 4 that I've come in contact with, feel free....

[the dangling wrangler]

m kilgore - Pipe down buddy. I get you guys are all passionate about what you do, but when someone starts making accusations about me I'm absolutely going to stand up to that. My comments, on the other hand, were not based on 0 knowledge of the other person(s) involved....I paid (yes, paid for so not trying to be a cheap ass, as you guys continue to try to parlay) for 4 different techs to come out and diagnose my problem and got 4 different answers and wildly different quotes...from $275 to $940. These were all licensed reps from Carrier dealers, so how do you explain the lack of competency and/or price gouging I'm seeing here, other than to question their integrity??? Again, I wasn't making a comment about you, so don't it personally; my comment was based on real and actual proof. But if you want to try to defend folks like the 4 that I've come in contact with, feel free....

Are you this obtuse all the time?

[nathanbgross]

Are you f'ing kidding me? What is it w/ the insults here? I asked legit questions and raised legit concerns and instead of just recognizing that there are some crooked folks in your industry (and sadly I've been engaged w/ them lately), you decide to throw insults around? I would say that's the definition of ignorance on your part "wrangler", so I would really be careful questioning anyone else's intellect. I'm done here...I got what I needed, so I'll be taking down my membership and letting you guys piss on whoever else wants to come into your precious little world to try to get much needed help.

[the dangling wrangler]

Are you f'ing kidding me? What is it w/ the insults here? I asked legit questions and raised legit concerns and instead of just recognizing that there are some crooked folks in your industry (and sadly I've been engaged w/ them lately), you decide to throw insults around? I would say that's the definition of ignorance on your part "wrangler", so I would really be careful questioning anyone else's intellect. I'm done here...I got what I needed, so I'll be taking down my membership and letting you guys piss on whoever else wants to come into your precious little world to try to get much needed help.

You just answered my question.

Thank You.

[nathanbgross]

Whatever 'wrangler'. You're clearly a very shallow and aggressive person. I feel sorry for the people in your life.

[the dangling wrangler]

Whatever 'wrangler'. You're clearly a very shallow and aggressive person. I feel sorry for the people in your life.

Sorry

[m kilgore]

m kilgore - Pipe down buddy. I get you guys are all passionate about what you do, but when someone starts making accusations about me I'm absolutely going to stand up to that. My comments, on the other hand, were not based on 0 knowledge of the other person(s) involved....I paid (yes, paid for so not trying to be a cheap ass, as you guys continue to try to parlay) for 4 different techs to come out and diagnose my problem and got 4 different answers and wildly different quotes...from $275 to $940. These were all licensed reps from Carrier dealers, so how do you explain the lack of competency and/or price gouging I'm seeing here, other than to question their integrity??? Again, I wasn't making a comment about you, so don't it personally; my comment was based on real and actual proof. But if you want to try to defend folks like the 4 that I've come in contact with, feel free....

Nathan. If you have had trouble with others in the industry than those posting here then I do feel for you to some extent. My question would be why did you hire four different companies to look at this problem? Did you not go with the first company because you didn't like what they said or priced the job at? As with any industry costs could vary alot from company to company along with quality. I could understand getting a second opinion but four? Hire one to do the work and make tham stand behind what they said and how they repaired the problem.

Believe me I know there are undertrained, cheap and scam artists in this industry. They are in all industries. What set me off was that you seemed to go after the WHOLE industry in your statements. Mainly the people on this forum that want to be of assistance. That will get you limited responces as you have seen.

Good luck.

[m kilgore]

Sorry


Classsic. Love the attachment. LOL

[nathanbgross]

Sorry

Quite sad....guess you must not be a very good tech since you have so much free time on your hands to make attempts at being clever. I'm done w/ you my friend. Later.

[the dangling wrangler]

Quite sad....guess you must not be a very good tech since you have so much free time on your hands to make attempts at being clever. I'm done w/ you my friend. Later.

Ouch!

[the dangling wrangler]

Classsic. Love the attachment. LOL

I tried staying out of this,until he started slinging insults at my brothers here.

Between the two different threads, his question was answered more than once. And honestly, I might add.

Nathan B could have replied without the attitude,I think.
But, we can't un-ring that bell now.Can we?