The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly(with PICs)

[Vector]

As some of you may know, I was going to have my 15 year old dying RUUD replaced and I decided to go with a Nutone system. The outside unit is a 4 ton 16 SEER, model# FS4BF048KB and the inside unit is B4VMX48KC.
The contractor I chose had a great installed price, they were polite and professional when they came to install it. They had to do a few extra things, yet never asked for more money than what was agreed to in the beginning. The units they installed is blowing even harder than the old unit, and it is keeping the whole house cool. I will post a few pictures of the install for you all to see.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall001.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall002-2.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall005.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall006.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall004.jpg

That is the good news.

As for the bad news, they did not speak English very well(common down here in S Florida), and never explained how to properly operate the new thermostat they installed. However I have an understanding of the basic controls so I thought no big deal, as I would play with it and figure out how to program it. The first problem I am encountering is that the fan on switch does not keep the fan blowing when the compressor cycles off as it is suppose to. The second problem is that if I set it to 77.0 degrees, it will get to around 79.0 and then shut off. So basically, if I want a certain temperature, I must set it 2 degrees cooler than I want to get it to cycle on and off to maintain the temperature I want.
This obviously has it's drawbacks, but is livable for the moment.

When I called them to ask for their assistance, that is where I run into the ugly.
Not that they are rude, but they do not seem very interested in coming back to see what the issue is. The guy who sold me the system said something about the inside unit being a variable speed air handler, and implied that because of this the Fan On feature would not work as my old system did. Again there is a communication problem so he may have meant something else. Regardless, it was installed on the 28th, and they have yet to come back to look at it. I informed them that they had left a few things behind, such as a jewelers screw driver, and a few rolls of masking and A/C duct tape, but that has not lured them back either.

Bottom line is that I would like some opinions as to what may be going on with my new system.

`

[beenthere]

Could be that you just don't feel or hear the blower when its running at 50% of cooling speed.

Sometimes, a great low install price means little service after the install.

[neophytes serendipity]

The contractor I chose had a great installed price


Sounds like you got what you were willing to pay for.

Isn't there supposed to be a p trap on that condensate line?

Best of luck.

[diesel65]

I am going to guess there was no permit pulled on this.....

There is no cond trap, you can see the elbow on the floor in the condenser pic.....

There is no aux drain, safety switch.......

The condenser is shot to the slab, should be tap-con's....

I sure hope they sized it right,

Get on the phone and get them back out to address your problem's, you may not have paid much but you did pay so get them out there.

[the dangling wrangler]

This should be good... The guy hires foreigners that **** up his job and now wants our help.

It's because of people like you that our illegal problem is so massive.

If they can't take time to learn English, don't hire them. If they show up and can't speak English, show them the door and send them packing. Do not contribute to the problem.

PS- The duct tape insulation job, lack of a P-trap, and poor service is what you get when you hire illegals. I hope next time you hire an American tradesman.

I've seen worse from legal citizens. Just look at the Wall Of Shame. Like it or not. It is what it is.

[zw17]

I've seen worse from legal citizens. Just look at the Wall Of Shame. Like it or not. It is what it is.

That is why I said "American Tradesman" not "American Super Hack" :LOL:

Quality comes with cost and I understand that money is an issue with most (myself included), but I would rather pay a English speaker to do a crap job than a Spanish speaker that can't even take time to learn basic English. :anyone:

[beenthere]

The language a person speaks, has nothing to do with the quality of work they do.

[zw17]

The language a person speaks, has nothing to do with the quality of work they do.

Actually yes it does...

As stated in the OP's post...


As for the bad news, they did not speak English very well(common down here in S Florida), and never explained how to properly operate the new thermostat they installed.


The guy who sold me the system said something about the inside unit being a variable speed air handler, and implied that because of this the Fan On feature would not work as my old system did. Again there is a communication problem so he may have meant something else.

The parts in red are a direct reflection on the quality of work. They could not even communicate how to properly control the system, we could also assume they were not able to then tell the customer how to do general maintenance.

Communication is the biggest and best tool any tech or installer has at their disposal, so technically these hacks didn't even show up with the right tools, again a direct reflection of quality of work.

[beenthere]

No reflection of the work they did.

The company performed poorly. By not sending someone that could explain.

There is a big difference between what/how the installers performed. And how the company performed.

[Roncool]

As some of you may know, I was going to have my 15 year old dying RUUD replaced and I decided to go with a Nutone system. The outside unit is a 4 ton 16 SEER, model# FS4BF048KB and the inside unit is B4VMX48KC.
The contractor I chose had a great installed price, they were polite and professional when they came to install it. They had to do a few extra things, yet never asked for more money than what was agreed to in the beginning. The units they installed is blowing even harder than the old unit, and it is keeping the whole house cool. I will post a few pictures of the install for you all to see.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall001.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall002-2.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall005.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall006.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall004.jpg

That is the good news.

As for the bad news, they did not speak English very well(common down here in S Florida), and never explained how to properly operate the new thermostat they installed. However I have an understanding of the basic controls so I thought no big deal, as I would play with it and figure out how to program it. The first problem I am encountering is that the fan on switch does not keep the fan blowing when the compressor cycles off as it is suppose to. The second problem is that if I set it to 77.0 degrees, it will get to around 79.0 and then shut off. So basically, if I want a certain temperature, I must set it 2 degrees cooler than I want to get it to cycle on and off to maintain the temperature I want.
This obviously has it's drawbacks, but is livable for the moment.

When I called them to ask for their assistance, that is where I run into the ugly.
Not that they are rude, but they do not seem very interested in coming back to see what the issue is. The guy who sold me the system said something about the inside unit being a variable speed air handler, and implied that because of this the Fan On feature would not work as my old system did. Again there is a communication problem so he may have meant something else. Regardless, it was installed on the 28th, and they have yet to come back to look at it. I informed them that they had left a few things behind, such as a jewelers screw driver, and a few rolls of masking and A/C duct tape, but that has not lured them back either.

Bottom line is that I would like some opinions as to what may be going on with my new system.

`

There is nothing I see terrible about the install. You pretty much got more then likly what you paid for. Had you used my company if I was in your area . You would of got english speaking installers, 3 year service agreement, a ten year parts and labor warranty, and weather it was our fault or not you would of got a new T stat and instrutions on how to use it. There are companies in your area that would of given you the same service for just a little bit more money. Hey look on the brite side the arrow on the LLfilter is pointing in the wright direction.

[zw17]

No reflection of the work they did.

The company performed poorly. By not sending someone that could explain.

There is a big difference between what/how the installers performed. And how the company performed.

Ok, then I will revert to what I see in the pictures...

Duct tape that was used to secure armaflex

Lack of a disconnect at the condenser

Multiple swedges on the LL

Lack of a P-trap on the condensate line

Nailing down the condenser to a concrete slab

Not being able to explain how to use the T-stat

Defend it all you want but if it was a 'quality' install the OP wouldn't be here asking for help, he would be a satisfied customer enjoying a new system.

I am backing out of this thread, sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack it from ya, good luck with your problems and I hope they at least square it away for you.

PS- OP, did you at least get a comminishing report?

[skyboy]

Sounds like you got what you were willing to pay for.

Isn't there supposed to be a p trap on that condensate line?

Best of luck.

i LOVE the way that liquid line is done. I bet they didn't even flush it .

[skyboy]

Condensing unit is bolted on concrete. Is that common in Florida ?
Is it a heat pump?
If it is then you have more problems. check out the filter dryer,:LOL:
I wish we could move this thread to wall of shame.

[the dangling wrangler]

That is why I said "American Tradesman" not "American Super Hack" :LOL:

Quality comes with cost and I understand that money is an issue with most (myself included), but I would rather pay a English speaker to do a crap job than a Spanish speaker that can't even take time to learn basic English. :anyone:

I'll bet ya ten bucks, that the salesman spoke perfect English!

[the dangling wrangler]

Condensing unit is bolted on concrete. Is that common in Florida ?
Is it a heat pump?
If it is then you have more problems. check out the filter dryer,:LOL:
I wish we could move this thread to wall of shame.

Not being from Florida, I'm guessing, that the condensing unit has to be fastened to the pad for hurricane issues. But again, that's just a guess

[diesel65]

Not being from Florida, I'm guessing, that the condensing unit has to be fastened to the pad for hurricane issues. But again, that's just a guess

Yes Sir, that is correct.

[the dangling wrangler]

I'm missing something. Somebody tell me what's wrong with the drier?

[beenthere]

I think he said IF its a heat pump. Wrong drier.

[tedkidd]

No reflection of the work they did.

The company performed poorly. By not sending someone that could explain.

There is a big difference between what/how the installers performed. And how the company performed.

The pain of spending a little more is soon forgotten. The pain of spending a little less can last a long time.

I've found that non-native members of my community often are the hardest workers, and those with a sense of entitlement due to birthright (bigots, etc.) only add to everyone else's load.

[the dangling wrangler]

I think he said IF its a heat pump. Wrong drier.

Well, we need to page Ryan, to run the numbers then.

[the dangling wrangler]

I've found that non-native members of my community often are the hardest workers, and those with a sense of entitlement due to birthright (bigots, etc.) only add to everyone else's load.

Yes. I've come to the same conclusion.

(This thread could end up in ARP.)

[Vector]

Wow, that was a lot of posts in a short period of time. I did not mean to stir up a hornets nest. ;)

I will try to answer individual posts a little later tonight as the Dolphins are playing as we speak. So for brevity's sake I will say that this contractor is in fact licensed and insured, and a authorized dealer according to the manufactures website.
While I philosophically agree with zw17 about hiring illegals, that is not the case. South Florida, especially Miami is full of legal residents and/or US citizens who do not speak English well. So do not assume that these guys are all illegals undercutting American citizens just because they do not speak English that well. To be sure there are plenty of illegals who will cut your grass and say they can add an addition onto your house afterwords, but those are not the type of people I hire for work like this.

Also, I said I got a great price, but I did not mean to imply it was cheap. I know I cannot say exactly what I paid, but lets just say it was over <lets not?. My only reasoning for mentioning the good deal I received was due to my earlier threads about which brand to have installed. Because I chose Nutone, that is one of the reasons this contractor gave me such a good deal. His prices for Trane and other brands were not much better than other contractors. I suspect he just gets a much bigger break on selling the Nutone brand, but that is speculative on my part.
Regardless, it is not as if I went with illegal immigrants who undercut legitimate contractors by 40% or something, like some might have thought.

I will be back later to address individual questions/posts. In the mean time, what is a P Trap, and how important is it?
Is this install really that bad based on the pictures I've provided to warrant the Hall of Shame :confused:
`

[the dangling wrangler]

Ive seen better,I've seen worse. (How's that for a non-answer?)

[Vector]

The fan should run continuously when set to on.

They may have placed a jumper between the Y (call for cooling) and G (call for fan) terminals at the air handler instead of connecting the wire for continuos fan.

As for the t-stat, it looks like a cheapo model - the kind you can find at home depot for $. I would used something decent made by honeywell, white rogers, or totaline

Interesting enough I had a Honeywell Chronotherm III on there, but they said it would not work with the new system. Granted I bought it years ago, but it has always performed well and I already had it programmed. They never did explain why it would not work with the new system, but again we had a language issue.
As to what they put on, it is a PSG Medallion
http://www.psgcontrols.com/_PDF/catalog.pdf
on page 3, but I have no clue what quality it is.
`

[Vector]

Could be that you just don't feel or hear the blower when its running at 50% of cooling speed.

Sometimes, a great low install price means little service after the install.

That is a negative on the 50% as I was hoping that was the case, but it is not blowing at all when in the On position.

[beenthere]

Call them back.

Miswired probably.

[Vector]

There is no cond trap, you can see the elbow on the floor in the condenser pic.....

There is no aux drain, safety switch.......

The condenser is shot to the slab, should be tap-con's....

I sure hope they sized it right,

Get on the phone and get them back out to address your problem's, you may not have paid much but you did pay so get them out there.

I agree, and paid good money so I expect them to at least make sure everything is 100% after paying for a complete system. I think I overstated how good my price was because I was speaking more about a great price in a 16 SEER 4 ton system compared with competitors brands.

As to your questions/observations, I am not in the business, so I have no clue about how important those things are?
`

[beenthere]

I think I overstated how good my price was because I was speaking more about a great price in a 16 SEER 4 ton system compared with competitors brands.


`

They had to cut corners somewhere to give you that great price.

[diesel65]

I agree, and paid good money so I expect them to at least make sure everything is 100% after paying for a complete system. I think I overstated how good my price was because I was speaking more about a great price in a 16 SEER 4 ton system compared with competitors brands.

As to your questions/observations, I am not in the business, so I have no clue about how important those things are?
`

No big deal on how the unit is secured........

You must have a P trap so that your unit will drain correctly......

The picture of your AHU shows the pvc pipe (drain) next to that is another hole that is plugged, you should have a safety switch plumbed into that with wiring to inside of the AHU to break cooling if the drain overflows.........

If there was a permit pulled the inspector would have caught these things, that is why I am guessing there was no permit pulled, you would also have a little leverage over the contractor and he would have to address these issues to pass inspection.

[the dangling wrangler]

I agree, and paid good money so I expect them to at least make sure everything is 100% after paying for a complete system. I think I overstated how good my price was because I was speaking more about a great price in a 16 SEER 4 ton system compared with competitors brands.

As to your questions/observations, I am not in the business, so I have no clue about how important those things are?
`

Well, the inspection process should have taken care of some of those worries.
You did have an inspection, right?
There's some of those savings, if it wasn't.



(diesel beat me to it)

[HVACJOEK]

You get what you pay for, sometimes the cost of a lesson isn't worth the savings of doing it right in the first place. :cool:

[m kilgore]

Looks like the air handler was a tight fit. Would like to see the fitting on the top. If this is a upflow configuration I hope you are not using the filter rack that is in the unit. From the looks of it you would not be able to get the filter out. Also with the refrigerant lines going across the front I don't know how easy it will be for future servicing.

The p-trap may be around the side of the unit. Couldn't tell from pic's.

Average looking install. A few things that could have been done different.

I would make them come back and wire it properly. Hopefully they set up the variable speed blower right.

[Airmechanical]

I agree, and paid good money so I expect them to at least make sure everything is 100% after paying for a complete system. I think I overstated how good my price was because I was speaking more about a great price in a 16 SEER 4 ton system compared with competitors brands.

As to your questions/observations, I am not in the business, so I have no clue about how important those things are?
`

if your within 50 miles homestead;

and they can't figure it out

contact me, info is in my profile

i been hooking these same system's up on a daily basis for a while now

the transition of high end equipment to communicating can get confusing for some to say the least


.

[beenthere]

Thread is too descriptive when drawings are posted.

[beenthere]

Per OP's request. Wiring diagnostic post, and post with wiring drawings deleted.
And thread reopened.

Follow forum rules, and the thread will remain open.

[Vector]

i LOVE the way that liquid line is done. I bet they didn't even flush it .

They did flush the line, I am just not sure how thoroughly they did it. There were several nitrogen blasts, but beyond that that who knows?

[Vector]

No big deal on how the unit is secured........

You must have a P trap so that your unit will drain correctly......

The picture of your AHU shows the pvc pipe (drain) next to that is another hole that is plugged, you should have a safety switch plumbed into that with wiring to inside of the AHU to break cooling if the drain overflows.........

If there was a permit pulled the inspector would have caught these things, that is why I am guessing there was no permit pulled, you would also have a little leverage over the contractor and he would have to address these issues to pass inspection.

I do not believe my old one had a P trap based on your description. There certainly was nothing electronic connected to the drain pan inside the air handler and it just drained out the same line they used. It drains now, but seems not to produce as much moisture as the older unit. I was going to attach a few more PVC pieces to it so it drained into the grass rather than on the slab where mildew builds up. This unit is not as wide and bulky as the last one so there is room to get in between the wall and the unit.

[Vector]

Ive seen better,I've seen worse. (How's that for a non-answer?)

:LOL:

They did say that the extra filter(blue) they attached is something extra they do that other contractors dont. My old unit did not have one, but to be honest I am not even sure what it is or if it is something only certain contractors install. I assume it is better to have one.

[golfer1512]

Where do you change your filter ? Do you have an electrical disconnect ? One for the a/h and one on the outside unit. It is required by FL code

[Carnak]

Ok, then I will revert to what I see in the pictures...


Nailing down the condenser to a concrete slab





Tap cons are better?

[skyboy]

Is it a heat pump?

[Wild]

How many swedges are in that liquid line? It looks as if they pieced together the scraps from previous jobs.

Guess that’s one way to be “economical”.

Explains why they install filter driers, got tired of the plugged up txv callbacks.

[Vector]

Well it has been a couple of years since I had the system installed. It has saved me a bunch of money from an energy efficiency standpoint, however I have noticed it does not cool as well or as quickly as my old Rheem system did.

I got back into town and noticed that it was not cooling very well. My wife had called a a/c contractor who came out(very young guy, not more than 25 years old), and he said everything seemed to be working, but said it was a little low on freon. So he supposedly put some in and charged us $185.00 for it. Mind you we were only obligated to pay the small service call fee for an estimate. However when he said putting freon in was the cheapest thing to do and that it would fix the problem she went ahead and agreed to pay. Well it might be doing a tiny bit better, but it is still not cooling like it did in the first couple of years. So it looks like we threw money away and still do not know what is wrong.
This guy apparently said he had not worked on Nutone systems and was on the phone half the time asking someone else what he should be doing. Needless to say S Florida is not a hotbed of sharp A/C guys despite this area really needing a bunch of contractors considering the brutal summers.
Anyway I figured I'd come here and see if anyone had any ideas. Supposedly the compressor is working, the fans are running inside and out. There is only a 10 degree difference from the air going into the handler vs what it is pumping out. The coils are clean, filter is new as well.

[seatonheating]

Well it has been a couple of years since I had the system installed. It has saved me a bunch of money from an energy efficiency standpoint, however I have noticed it does not cool as well or as quickly as my old Rheem system did.

I got back into town and noticed that it was not cooling very well. My wife had called a a/c contractor who came out(very young guy, not more than 25 years old), and he said everything seemed to be working, but said it was a little low on freon. So he supposedly put some in and charged us $185.00 for it. Mind you we were only obligated to pay the small service call fee for an estimate. However when he said putting freon in was the cheapest thing to do and that it would fix the problem she went ahead and agreed to pay. Well it might be doing a tiny bit better, but it is still not cooling like it did in the first couple of years. So it looks like we threw money away and still do not know what is wrong.
This guy apparently said he had not worked on Nutone systems and was on the phone half the time asking someone else what he should be doing. Needless to say S Florida is not a hotbed of sharp A/C guys despite this area really needing a bunch of contractors considering the brutal summers.
Anyway I figured I'd come here and see if anyone had any ideas. Supposedly the compressor is working, the fans are running inside and out. There is only a 10 degree difference from the air going into the handler vs what it is pumping out. The coils are clean, filter is new as well.


The tech you called out probably got it going as good as he could considering your original install. Good deals are rarely good deals.

[kingkaiko2002]

Hi Vector,

Sorry that you have to come across this. I came across this type of problems all the time. The tech that you hired has no clue what he was doing. Freon don't just go low, there gotta be a leak somewhere. You have to fix the leak before adding freon. 10 degree split seems a little too low. Many factors can cause a low split, such as low on freon, restrictions in the airflow, ect. It's really hard for anyone to know unless they are there. I would start by talking to your friends, neighbors, church's member for a reputable contractor and get it fix right.

[amd]

Could be a ductwork issue - ex: connection which fell apart.

[Realist]

Very exciting post. From reading all of the posts and viewing pics... seems to be a very poorly done install. As for the tech , yes probbly just kept it going or did all he knew or thought he knew.Very sorry for your troubles now you need it fixed properly.Hope its not too uncomfortably in your home.

[Home&Marine]

First I don't Sell or Install PneuTones but it's Straight Air so the dryer is correct. No need to ask why you didn't spring for a Heat Pump.

My friend, You Have A Problem.

1. You Can Call The Company
2. You Can Call The MFG.
3. You Should Call A Competent Repair Person and Find Out What's Wrong (other than the stuff everyone has pointed out).

I can tell you what I do with that Thermostat. Take a guess.

Someone has already said there's a possibility the 'stat is wired wrong. Being a 2 Stage unit, I agree.

Here's the Info off the Web

Condenser Model No. FS4BF048KB


10 Year Warranty on Parts
10 Year Warranty on Compressor
Energy Star Compliant
Contains a Two-Stage Scroll Compressor
Pre-Charged with R-410A Refrigerant
This is Not a Heat Pump Condenser

[Mr Bill]

The language a person speaks, has nothing to do with the quality of work they do.


Amen Brother Preach it! I speak Texan and we do pretty good. :grin2: :grin2: :grin2:

[sideburns05]

The service ticket, that the tech should of written, should have some numbers on it. He should of recorded numbers that would dictate adding more ref.(and hopefully he put in 410A and not freon as you posted). He should of also recorded numbers after installing ref. to show the problem has been fixed. he should of then recommended a leak fix. If he did not do this then I would call the company back and ask for a more experienced tech, or call another more reputable company. Good Luck.

[Vector]

The service ticket, that the tech should of written, should have some numbers on it. He should of recorded numbers that would dictate adding more ref.(and hopefully he put in 410A and not freon as you posted). He should of also recorded numbers after installing ref. to show the problem has been fixed. he should of then recommended a leak fix. If he did not do this then I would call the company back and ask for a more experienced tech, or call another more reputable company. Good Luck.

Well that is what I did, and the new guy came and said the expansion valve was located in the wrong place. It was apparently located in the interior coils of the air handler, when according to him it was suppose to be attached to the line running just outside the air handler. So he moved it and said if it is working properly it should cool better. After a few days with little to no improvement he came back out and did the following test.
While having the guages attached to the outside unit, he took a reading and either the red or blue dial was at 150 and the other at 301. He then removed the expansion valve from the line outside the air handler and held it in his hand. He then had me go outside to see if the guages had moved, and if so to record the difference. The guages had not moved at all, so he declared that the expansion valve was not working properly. He said removing it from the line and holding it in his hand should have caused the outside guages to move.
So he said he will be ordering a new one for me and returning to install it. I told him my unit has a 10 year warranty and asked if something like an expansion valve was covered. He said he will check with the manufacturer and get back to me.

Does any of this sound right or plausible regarding the expansion valve?

[Vector]

As a bit more info to help understand what this guy has just done, he placed the sensor/bulb of the expansion valve on the outside of the air handler even though it came from the factory attached inside.

BEFORE:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/NewACinstall004.jpg

AFTER:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/moremerissaandHVACpictures005.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc50/ZFACTORZ/moremerissaandHVACpictures004.jpg

The tech claims it was not the correct place for it, so that is why he moved it. However I just finished getting off the phone with one of Nutone/Nordyne's technical support people, and they said it is suppose to be inside, hence the reason it came from the factory like that.

How do I keep getting these guys who do not seem to know what they are talking about?

[darctangent]

Vector, this whole thread makes my head hurt.

Dump that contractor, and do it NOW.

NOW, right now.

The more imbeciles work on your system the more you will pay in the end.

Repost in this forum with this Subject line: Homeowner in XXXXXXX, FL looking for quality service company.

A technician at your door that knows their butt from their elbow is your goal. A technician that can show you certificaion from on of the following Organizations is a general indicator of competence: RSES, NATE, ASHRAE. NATE will be the most common, but any one of these are strong indicators that your service professional didn't start in the industry 2 months ago. You need to tell the dispatcher that if they can't demonstrate certifications of the organizations above that you will send them away, unpaid. Don't let them show you a EPA Refrigerant/608/Type I,II,III or universal cert- that doesn't mean jack.

Whatever the cost to do things right, it will be less than doing it wrong.


PS- I don't mean to demean anybody here that doesn't have a cert from any of the above groups, but they need to know they have somebody that ACTUALLY knows what they are doing, instead of saying that they do. The OP clearly has trouble telling the difference.

To the OP- you will need to pay for good talent, It's just they way of the world. You said that you got a "great price" but you aren't getting "great service" now. The fact of the matter is that the average price paid for a system install is too low, so when you told us that you got as price that was below what other contractors were charging, that became a red flag to me. The real trick in the HVAC world isn't getting a "great price" it's getting great results. It's getting the job done right so you don't have to do it twice.

Be sure to post a link to your new thread so that people here will know of it and give you input there. Also, be sure to put your email address in your profile. DO NOT POST YOUR ADDY IN A POST, it will be deleted.

[Vector]

Just as an FYI, this is not the original contractor that I hired to install it. This is not only a new company, but in an effort to get English speaking technicians, I hired a company outside of Miami that travels. The first guy was a young kid directly off the boat from Israel, and even though he was nice enough, he clearly did not know what he was doing because all the time he was on the phone asking questions about how to proceed. Heck his guages did not even seem to work properly because he kept having to pop off the clear lens and adjust the needle, then put it back on. So who knows if I even needed freon considering his guage problems. When he supposedly charged it with freon, he was just punting because it made no difference and he never called back like he said he would.
So this time they sent out the senior tech with 25+ years of experience. Again this guy was pleasant, but he speaks broken English. Worse it seems as if he is just grasping at straws. In no way was this company hired based on money, as they want big bucks now to change out the expansion valve which of course I'm not sure it even needs.

[darctangent]

Just as an FYI, this is not the original contractor that I hired to install it. This is not only a new company, but in an effort to get English speaking technicians, I hired a company outside of Miami that travels. The first guy was a young kid directly off the boat from Israel, and even though he was nice enough, he clearly did not know what he was doing because all the time he was on the phone asking questions about how to proceed. Heck his guages did not even seem to work properly because he kept having to pop off the clear lens and adjust the needle, then put it back on. So who knows if I even needed freon considering his guage problems. When he supposedly charged it with freon, he was just punting because it made no difference and he never called back like he said he would.
So this time they sent out the senior tech with 25+ years of experience. Again this guy was pleasant, but he speaks broken English. Worse it seems as if he is just grasping at straws. In no way was this company hired based on money, as they want big bucks now to change out the expansion valve which of course I'm not sure it even needs.

Classic mistake Vector.

A Technician's time in the trade is often not a good indicator of their skill level. As a teacher of mine said, "Twenty years of doing it wrong doesn't make it right." Many guys never learn what they need to know to do the job the right way. You need to let go of your preconceptions. Please re-read my post.

[Shophound]

After a few days with little to no improvement he came back out and did the following test.
While having the guages attached to the outside unit, he took a reading and either the red or blue dial was at 150 and the other at 301. He then removed the expansion valve from the line outside the air handler and held it in his hand. He then had me go outside to see if the guages had moved, and if so to record the difference. The guages had not moved at all, so he declared that the expansion valve was not working properly. He said removing it from the line and holding it in his hand should have caused the outside guages to move.


Watching "gauge movement" is not how to check for proper expansion valve operation. Checking superheat is. If nobody has mentioned the word "superheat" in their discussions with you, they may not have measured it and if that's true they have no sound data to go on for a diagnosis.

[Vector]

Classic mistake Vector.

A Technician's time in the trade is often not a good indicator of their skill level. As a teacher of mine said, "Twenty years of doing it wrong doesn't make it right." Many guys never learn what they need to know to do the job the right way. You need to let go of your preconceptions. Please re-read my post.

It would seem that I made a mistake in hiring this new company, but the 25 years of experience was not something I was sold on. Rather this company was trying to appease me when I express my displeasure with the previous tech and his lack of experience. So they told me they were sending out their "senior tech"
with that much experience. Needless to say I have already paid them money from the first job of "adding freon", so I'd like for them to get this fixed rather than having to start from scratch again and hoping the next company will have English speaking, competent techs that meet the criteria you mentioned.


Watching "gauge movement" is not how to check for proper expansion valve operation. Checking superheat is. If nobody has mentioned the word "superheat" in their discussions with you, they may not have measured it and if that's true they have no sound data to go on for a diagnosis.

The term superheat was never used.

[darctangent]

It would seem that I made a mistake in hiring this new company, but the 25 years of experience was not something I was sold on. Rather this company was trying to appease me when I express my displeasure with the previous tech and his lack of experience. So they told me they were sending out their "senior tech"
with that much experience. Needless to say I have already paid them money from the first job of "adding freon", so I'd like for them to get this fixed rather than having to start from scratch again and hoping the next company will have English speaking, competent techs that meet the criteria you mentioned.



The term superheat was never used.

:munching:

That's why this forum is so very entertaining. It's like watching a really bad movie but you just can't pull yourself away because the fact that it's so very bad has it's own entertainment value.

What do you suppose are the odds that someone who doesn't know what's wrong can fix your system without a level of drama that dwarfs the price and effort of what it takes somebody who does know.

Do you understand that doing things wrong can leave your system permanently damaged?

You have an incredible resource in HVAC-TALK, if you choose to ignore the collective advice given here, then why ask? Fear not, others will post here to throw in their :.02:

[Vector]

:munching:

That's why this forum is so very entertaining. It's like watching a really bad movie but you just can't pull yourself away because the fact that it's so very bad has it's own entertainment value.

What do you suppose are the odds that someone who doesn't know what's wrong can fix your system without a level of drama that dwarfs the price and effort of what it takes somebody who does know.

Do you understand that doing things wrong can leave your system permanently damaged?

You have an incredible resource in HVAC-TALK, if you choose to ignore the collective advice given here, then why ask? Fear not, others will post here to throw in their :.02:

I am not ignoring advice, just saying where I am at in the process. Remember, if you read the thread from the beginning I did hire a different company than the original people who installed it. I even went outside the county just to increase the chances of getting an English tech.
I guess I could tell this company I wanted my money back and try to find another contractor. The only problem is I am not sure where to look to find one that meets the criteria you suggested and that also has English speaking techs. Remember whites are a small minority in Miami with most of them having fled north. Granted there must be competent techs who only speak Spanish, but the lack of communication would cause problems since I am already gun shy with people saying the problem is X, and they will fix if for $$$. Then when it is not the problem I am stuck in the same boat.
`

[ColdAirMan]

:munching:

That's why this forum is so very entertaining. It's like watching a really bad movie but you just can't pull yourself away because the fact that it's so very bad has it's own entertainment value.

What do you suppose are the odds that someone who doesn't know what's wrong can fix your system without a level of drama that dwarfs the price and effort of what it takes somebody who does know.

Do you understand that doing things wrong can leave your system permanently damaged?

You have an incredible resource in HVAC-TALK, if you choose to ignore the collective advice given here, then why ask? Fear not, others will post here to throw in their :.02:

AGREED----- VERY ENTERTAINING........

hire a reputable contractor in your area.... not a hack that will nickle and dime every cent out of you until you HAVE to get a new unit.....

Spend the money and get it fixed RIGHT!

[darctangent]

I am not ignoring advice, just saying where I am at in the process. Remember, if you read the thread from the beginning I did hire a different company than the original people who installed it. I even went outside the county just to increase the chances of getting an English tech.
I guess I could tell this company I wanted my money back and try to find another contractor. The only problem is I am not sure where to look to find one that meets the criteria you suggested and that also has English speaking techs. Remember whites are a small minority in Miami with most of them having fled north. Granted there must be competent techs who only speak Spanish, but the lack of communication would cause problems since I am already gun shy with people saying the problem is X, and they will fix if for $$$. Then when it is not the problem I am stuck in the same boat.
`

I will advise later, but NATEX.org is a start. Also I suggested posting here...

We can help you figure that out.

[Puzzler]

I find this post amusing for reasons different than most, I guess. I cannot figure out for the life of me why everyone is jumping down the OP's throat.

Vector got a great price. That's awesome for him. We all do the same thing - determine what our standards are, and choose the lowest price for the product that meets all of our needs. I spend more on soft toilet paper, but I will buy the cheapest napkins possible. Yet everyone is acting like he's the bad guy for not picking the highest quote. Where is that coming from?

He picked the company, obviously, before they did the install. He had to base this on certain factors OTHER THAN his own installation, whereas we are bashing his choice because we have the vantage point of pictures taken afterwards.

That said, we are on new topic.

Please listen to darctangent & find a new company. The moving of the sensing bulb to outside & the picture of it completely open to surrounding air are both scary things. Good suggestion to go to natex.org, find a company with NATE techs, and when you call, make sure that you request they actually send a NATE tech. (Many companies have both NATE & non-NATE techs, so they may be listed on the NATE website, but that doesn't mean that is what you will get unless you ask.)

My recommendation (no guarantees) would be to try to get your money back for the refrigerant after you have someone else fix it. If you ask for it now, they will want the chance to make it right. I am usually all for this approach, but the TXV 'fix' by the experienced tech scares me more than the refrigerant fix by the newbie. After you find someone else to fix it, you will be able to show company A the 'correct' repair done by company B, thereby proving company A techs didn't know what they were doing.

[darctangent]

Puzzler- I don't see anybody jumping down his throat, but sometimes it takes a certain amount of pressure to overcome what people think they know. They WANT and NEED to believe that they are capable to make good decisions when it comes to our trade, but what so few understand is that much of what the average person thinks they know about our profession is wrong, wrong, wrong. This is further promoted by the vast numbers of uneducated people within our profession that there would seem to be little hope for the consumer to learn what the REAL story is, and get a qualified professional to do the work. That is part of why HVAC-TALK exists, and I am happy to be a small part of it.


It's flatly demoralizing to Homeowners to think that they can't make a good decision in picking a contractor. Just this afternoon I told a new customer that their AC system (4 years old) was grossly over sized for the house and his ductwork. His father was there and started getting in my face because he thought I was full of BS and trying to make money on him. The truth is that I was doing what I do for all my customers when I work on a new system. I was telling him the way it should have been done, and what he could do to improve the system. Oh, and of course that meant spending money, but how is it my fault that they did a crappy job in the first place. So many people think I'm fleecing them because I do it better, do it right.

Funny how so few people consider that they got fleeced by not choosing a more conscientious contractor that yes, does happen to charge more than some.

::::RANT OVER::::

[darctangent]

It would seem that I made a mistake in hiring this new company, but the 25 years of experience was not something I was sold on. Rather this company was trying to appease me when I express my displeasure with the previous tech and his lack of experience. So they told me they were sending out their "senior tech"
with that much experience. Needless to say I have already paid them money from the first job of "adding freon", so I'd like for them to get this fixed rather than having to start from scratch again and hoping the next company will have English speaking, competent techs that meet the criteria you mentioned.



The term superheat was never used.


Vector, May I know your zip code?

If you don't want to use yours, then one right next to you would work.

Once again, please put an Email in your profile.

Thnx

[Snapperhead]

Holy cow ... (why looky there, I see your problem sir, the bulb needs to be 7 inches down stream, and outside of the case)

I must admit, thats a new one.

Poor OP has his hands full.

I never heard of this name brand Nutone.... i wonder if it needs a 2 stage stat to engage 2nd stage ?

[Vector]

I find this post amusing for reasons different than most, I guess. I cannot figure out for the life of me why everyone is jumping down the OP's throat.

Vector got a great price. That's awesome for him. We all do the same thing - determine what our standards are, and choose the lowest price for the product that meets all of our needs. I spend more on soft toilet paper, but I will buy the cheapest napkins possible. Yet everyone is acting like he's the bad guy for not picking the highest quote. Where is that coming from?

He picked the company, obviously, before they did the install. He had to base this on certain factors OTHER THAN his own installation, whereas we are bashing his choice because we have the vantage point of pictures taken afterwards.

That said, we are on new topic.

Please listen to darctangent & find a new company. The moving of the sensing bulb to outside & the picture of it completely open to surrounding air are both scary things. Good suggestion to go to natex.org, find a company with NATE techs, and when you call, make sure that you request they actually send a NATE tech. (Many companies have both NATE & non-NATE techs, so they may be listed on the NATE website, but that doesn't mean that is what you will get unless you ask.)

My recommendation (no guarantees) would be to try to get your money back for the refrigerant after you have someone else fix it. If you ask for it now, they will want the chance to make it right. I am usually all for this approach, but the TXV 'fix' by the experienced tech scares me more than the refrigerant fix by the newbie. After you find someone else to fix it, you will be able to show company A the 'correct' repair done by company B, thereby proving company A techs didn't know what they were doing.

I appreciate the sentiment and will admit to occasionally feeling the way you describe. :cheers:
I don't complain because I am coming here for help, and no one wants to help someone who complains too much.
For the most part the posters have either given recommendations or offered helpful information without being condescending or giving me a rough time.

In retrospect I wish I had not started this thread talking about the "great deal" I had gotten because I think it led some to conclude that I went with a cut rate dealer/installer, and got what I deserved. You know the old saying, "you made your bed, now you must sleep in it".

In reality I paid good money for the system, just less for this brand compared with some better known brands like Trane. I think the installer was the problem, not the system itself. Now I just need to find someone to get it working correctly which includes installing the Honeywell multi-stage thermostat I bought.

[darctangent]

I don't complain because I am coming here for help, and no one wants to help someone who complains too much.
The best, smartest thing that can be done is to put you on the right track now. That's what we are trying to do. The core of that has to be a contractor with a competent service technician. the sonner that gets done the sooner you can go back to focusing on everything else in your life.
For the most part the posters have either given recommendations or offered helpful information without being condescending or giving me a rough time.
Everything I have posted has been out of a desire to tell you what you need to know to resolve the situation as quickly, cheaply, and effectively as possible.

In retrospect I wish I had not started this thread talking about the "great deal" I had gotten because I think it led some to conclude that I went with a cut rate dealer/installer, and got what I deserved. You know the old saying, "you made your bed, now you must sleep in it".
Nobody is telling you you need to suffer for your choices. We are trying to help you make better ones, to be more educated. This advice we offer is for the here and now, and in the future. To a certain extent I understand what you are saying about sleeping in the bed that you made, but that doesn't mean you can't do a better job for the next night's rest.

In reality I paid good money for the system, just less for this brand compared with some better known brands like Trane. I think the installer was the problem, not the system itself. Now I just need to find someone to get it working correctly which includes installing the Honeywell multi-stage thermostat I bought.

That statement has more truth to it that you could possibly know. The brand is rarely the issue. The huge, overwhelming issue in HVAC is the quality of training and workmanship. There are exceptions to be sure, but if you get a good contractor they will try to steer you clear of those too.

On the thermostat-

1) in your OP (original post) you said that you had two issues with the thermostat. First that it would overshoot the set point. Second, that it wouldn't operate your fan switch. Replacing the thermostat might fix the first issue, might not. It definitely won't fix the second. The reason your fan isn't able to run is most likely tied to the number of stat wires you have available to you at the thermostat. There are workarounds for this, but you will need that tech onsite to figure out what you need to do. I guess it's also possible that it just isn't connected properly, but I'm betting on the number of available wires. this will also affect the ability to wire in two stage heating.

2) the second point is that if you bought that honeywell thermostat from Lowes, Home depot, or similar, I would suggest you take it back. The reason being that I have noticed a long history of those lesser grade thermostats from consumer oriented stores failing. I end up replacing quite a few of them. You do what you feel is best, but you really won't be saving money in the end.

In the Honeywell line the thermostat should have the "pro" designation on the box it comes in. I like the 6000Pro model myself.

[neophytes serendipity]

Adding to the above...

Unless your house originally had multistage equipment all controlled at the thermostat location, odds are that you do not have enough wires in place now.

Communicating thermostats use a limited number of wires to communicate with an interface module, and the module controls the equipment.

Using one of these, I can control a humidifier, 2 stage furnace, 2 stage heat pump and get outdoor temperature readings using 3 existing wires. Using a plain thermostat, I would need something like a dozen wires.

The same wire problem exists if a new condenser requires more than 2 wires, and you only have 2. There are interface boxes for this, too.

[darctangent]

Hey Vector-

I have a feeling that your problem isn't some world ending disaster, but without the right tech to diagnose and repair it correctly it could become one. A bad tech can leave things worse than when they started and who needs that. That's why I was asking for your zip code and email. I can narrow down the field a little bit and dramatically improve your odds of getting somebody good.

I'm sending you an email.

[tedkidd]

That statement has more truth to it that you could possibly know. The brand is rarely the issue. The huge, overwhelming issue in HVAC is the quality of training and workmanship. There are exceptions to be sure, but if you get a good contractor they will try to steer you clear of those too.



And design.

The biggest failure often tends to be in design. Nobody wants to pay for it, so little time is put into doing it. It's not done up front because homeowner is not building a relationship, they are getting 5 quotes. So your one in 5 chance of winning goes down if you add good design cost x5 to each job. It doesn't get done after winning because incentive for better design is now gone, the job is insured. Besides, the adversarial homeowner who put pressure on your earning a fair wage doesn't have your empathy. And what if design uncovers an issue? The homeowner will accuse you of bait and switch. "I'd rather play ostrich! Besides; Your energy bill is not MY problem, Just Get 'er Dun and move on."

As plays over and over here, what is left behind really is the homeowner's problem.

People want to build additions without an architect or engineer. The failure to understand the benefits of the significant oversight provided, the benefits of bringing broader perspective to the table needs to be conveyed somehow. Rather than assuming "built to code" won't mean catastrophic unintended consequences, high energy costs, etc, are tangible only after the problem manifests itself. Why is there such a huge energy retrofit industry? Because huge mistakes were made at design and build.

Somehow we need a mechanism that drives slowing down, that drives performing better, more comprehensive design on a nationwide scale.

In NY the Home Performance with Energy Star program provides design. It starts with an energy audit - the cost of which is completing a one page application and digging up one years energy consumption history.

[Vector]

Just another quick post and then I will address specifics later tonight.

They ran new wiring because as some have speculated the original wires were for my old system and stat. However they installed a piece of junk thermostat despite all the new wires. Presumably there are enough wires for the system, but I guess I will find out once I have the new stat installed.

It is not a HD special, rather it is a top of the line Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ model # YTH9421C1010.
I bought this one because Nordyne said it was one of only a handful that would properly run the dual stage compressor and 2 stage air handler.

BTW- I've added my email, and my zip is 33176. I will place another thread asking for local help later today.

[snowbertca]

Just a wild stab in the dark by an older guy taking a/c course & nearly finished; the expansion bulb should be attached with the metal bracket supplied, (not zipties) and completely insulated over from air , and should be just after the evap ; i.e. ; exactly where the manuf put it. And yes I do know (now) what superheat means.

[Vector]

The saga is still going on.

So, if anyone knows of a good quality company down here in the Miami area that knows how to service my type of unit(that also speaks English) please refer them to me. You can do it here in the thread or if that is considered verboten, then just PM me.
Thanks

[neophytes serendipity]

The saga is still going on.

So, if anyone knows of a good quality company down here in the Miami area that knows how to service my type of unit(that also speaks English) please refer them to me. You can do it here in the thread or if that is considered verboten, then just PM me.
Thanks


You mean it has been almost 2 years, and it still does not work properly?

Ouch.

[stonewallred]

You mean it has been almost 2 years, and it still does not work properly?

Ouch.

That was what I was thinking.
2 years and ain't got it running correctly yet?

[Vector]

Vector, this whole thread makes my head hurt.

Dump that contractor, and do it NOW.

NOW, right now.

A technician that can show you certificaion from on of the following Organizations is a general indicator of competence: RSES, NATE, ASHRAE. NATE will be the most common, but any one of these are strong indicators that your service professional didn't start in the industry 2 months ago.

I guess there are very few down here that have that certification because after a dozen calls no one either knew what I was talking about or didn't speak enough English to understand me.

I then decided to look up authorized dealers for Nutone in my area, and there is a category for NATE certified contractors. Out of 54, only one lists that they are NATE certified, and they are pretty far away. Also based on the address listed, I'd say they are 100% likely to be non English speaking. Here is the link;

http://www.nutonehvac.com/v/dealers/?zip-code=33176&radius=25&page=1

Now the higher end level unit have what is called IQDrive which presumably means a higher level of sophistication of the unit. There are 9 companies listed with that designation, but I am wary of hiring another company that does not have the certifications you recommended.

I am still having problems, and now my drain line seems to be backed up because I have little water draining outside, and instead it is dripping from the bottom of the air handler.



What would the forum members suggest I do at this point?

[hvacvegas]

You guys in flordia have that big of a problem finding techs that speak english?

I know that florida has a large hispanic population. Yet it seems unreal to me that alot of these hispanics don't speak english.

Here in cincinnati, I can speak with my fellow workers who are hispanic, between my spanish and their english.

[Vector]

South Florida is much different than most of the rest of Florida, Miami in particular. Now there are plenty of Hispanics who can speak English, but for whatever reason people in the service professions tend to speak Spanish or broken English. If you are incapable of properly communicating with a tech, it leads to misunderstandings.

I did have an English speaking tech from Broward county call me back today to tell me that the reason so few techs in Miami(Dade county) are NATE certified is because they do not give the test down here. Apparently you need to drive up to West Palm Beach to take the exam, which is 1 1/2 hours away.

[Chris_Worthington]

Thread Closed for Mod review :putergreet:

[Chris_Worthington]

Thread reopened....

The last post was deleted by the Mod's and the poster has been placed on a 30 day vacation due to remarks unbecoming of a "Professional" member.

The Mod's would like to remind everyone of these higher standards for Professional's, more information regarding this may be found here: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=815312

[Chris_Worthington]

All of I sudden I feel the need for a doughnut? :whistle:

[beenthere]

All of I sudden I feel the need for a doughnut? :whistle:

Wheres the Dunkin donuts thats half way between us. LOL

[HeyBob]

You two guys are crazy............donuts, thinking Cheese Steak

[Chris_Worthington]

You two guys are crazy............donuts, thinking Cheese Steak

A Cheese Steak would have been perfect, but with all this talk about food I ended up settling for Roast Beast Sand which :grin2:

Bob I am assuming you have the Doughnuts & Cheese Steaks lined up for Indy then?

[HeyBob]

A Cheese Steak would have been perfect, but with all this talk about food I ended up settling for Roast Beast Sand which :grin2:

Bob I am assuming you have the Doughnuts & Cheese Steaks lined up for Indy then?

I can't do cheese steaks properly from Michigan, doughnuts, not much of a fan.

[HeyBob]

A Cheese Steak would have been perfect, but with all this talk about food I ended up settling for Roast Beast Sand which :grin2:

Bob I am assuming you have the Doughnuts & Cheese Steaks lined up for Indy then?

Don't they have some kind of pork loin sandwich that is unique to that area like a Philly? We should do them..........LOL


:hijacked:

[Chris_Worthington]

The thread hasn't been hijacked, its just the result of a Sting operation :angel:

[darctangent]

The thread hasn't been hijacked, its just the result of a Sting operation :angel:

sheesh, you guys were fast...


I didn't even get a chance to put my :.02: in.

To Vector:

I will try to make a couple calls tomorrow. Stay tuned. Try to ignore all the cops buzzing around with boxes of doughnuts. "Nothing to see here" as they say.

[Vector]

sheesh, you guys were fast...


I didn't even get a chance to put my :.02: in.

To Vector:

I will try to make a couple calls tomorrow. Stay tuned. Try to ignore all the cops buzzing around with boxes of doughnuts. "Nothing to see here" as they say.

I have no idea "what went down", but I guess it was not worth reading anyway.

That would be great as I need a company that I can trust that I can also communicate with. One guy who called me back last night went on a tirade about how no reputable contractor sells my unit, but he can work on anything, even pieces of s****, so that did not fill me with confidence. The unit itself is probably fine, it just had a poor or improper install. Changing the thermo to the two stage one from Honeywell should also be a step in the right direction.

[darctangent]

I have no idea "what went down", but I guess it was not worth reading anyway.

That would be great as I need a company that I can trust that I can also communicate with. One guy who called me back last night went on a tirade about how no reputable contractor sells my unit, but he can work on anything, even pieces of s****, so that did not fill me with confidence. The unit itself is probably fine, it just had a poor or improper install. Changing the thermo to the two stage one from Honeywell should also be a step in the right direction.

Some people like to leave a mess. It had nothing to do with you, so don't give it a second thought.

[Cooked]

:munching:

That's why this forum is so very entertaining. It's like watching a really bad movie but you just can't pull yourself away because the fact that it's so very bad has it's own entertainment value.........

Entertaining it is. Good grief, I don't know whether to laugh, cry, fart or eat some dounuts and a philly cheese. :eek2: I stumbled upon this thread last night and read the whole thing. Wow!

The installation looks okay, not great but okay, and there is nothing wrong with Nutone equipment. Anyone who hasn't heard of it has been around too long. The problems Vector described are pretty minor and easily corrected but I'm astonished it still hasn't been resolved after all this time. The whole debacle about the expansion valve and location thereof is dis-heartening at best. I have been a lot of places but never to Miami so I can't really comment on the nuances of the local culture and language....but dang....somebody there who speaks English has to know how to mount a TXV and install the stat the customer already purchased.

Vector, hang in there. There are people here who are willing to help if we can.

[anthonyac1]

how about the white conduit going to the condenser. im guessing its hard conduit but the piece of flex at the tip was too short. i guess it works right just pull it off the wall. and then they had more than enough liquid tight conduit, i guess you run it in a wavy pattern to help the alternating current flow better.

[Vector]

The white drain line if solid and fixed, which will make it impossible to get the lower cover completely off to move it to the side. Something needs to be changed for maintenance access for things like I am experiencing now with a backed up drain line.

Based on the pictures, any good ideas for the modification?

[neophytes serendipity]

Now the higher end level unit have what is called IQDrive which presumably means a higher level of sophistication of the unit. There are 9 companies listed with that designation, but I am wary of hiring another company that does not have the certifications you recommended.

I am still having problems, and now my drain line seems to be backed up because I have little water draining outside, and instead it is dripping from the bottom of the air handler.



What would the forum members suggest I do at this point?


I would suspect that the air handler is a variable speed unit.

If so, it will try to attain whatever it is set for, despite ductwork or other design problems.

This has probably been suggested before, but you really need to get a TESP (Total External Static Pressure) reading.

The problem you are describing with the condensate drain is indicative of (1) an improperly installed P trap or (2) excessive static pressure, overcoming the P trap.

If you are using pleated air filters, remove them and replace with plain fiberglass air filters.

If your ductwork is undersized, and you are unable/unwilling to fix it, you would be better off with a plain old PSC motor air handler.

[Vector]

I am not sure what the P trap is, but I will look into it. I got the line draining again by putting suction on the outside line which cleared the obstruction.

I've decided to hire someone to install the new Honeywell thermostat, regardless of whether it is the main reason the unit is not working effectively. I figure if I already bought it, may as well get that aspect of the problem taken care of. The guy who will install it speaks English and said it might resolve the issue since it is made for a variable speed air handler and compressor. He is IQDrive certified by Nutone, so he should be able to install a thermostat correctly to the unit.

I will still be happy to get any more advice or contractor recommendations in case this next step is ineffective.

[Alejandro Mart]

vector .
when they came in for the estimate did they check your attic to make sure you have enough insulation or any? what condition your duct work it is in? Im from s florida capital of bad duct work,did they check your subcooling ,superheat?size of lines ?