cvhe starter

[scott210]

i am in the middle of converting the stater module on a cvhe chiller to a trane dynaview. unit had a cutler hammar stater module put on in 2002. got dynaview installed and programed per instruction manual,that came with kit that we got from trane parts. The problem is the module will not start chiller, the only part of the module that works is the limiter. can not tell u how long me and another tech have spent on this problem. So yesterday we called trane service for help, they sent a tech out, he couldn't get it goin. today he and another tech came out.he also had no luck with the problem. if anyone has experiance with dynaview or (or even if u haven't)i would like to hear your thoughts on this.
thanks

[Healey Nut]

Im trying to understand your post better . Are you doing a full CH531 conversion complete with full starter control or are you trying to use the original starter control ??
What kind of starter ??? Wye delta ,soft start , across the line ,primary reactor etc etc

[chillertech257]

If you are doing a complete pannel conversion, what style of pannel are you replacing? What is the chiller doing? is it going through it's normal start secquence and just not pulling in the starter, or is the chiller not even trying to start? also what type of starter do you have? is it a star delta?

[scott210]

sorry, forgot to add to post it is a wye delta stater, and i am installing as a stand alone starter. it will not pull in starter at all, i am getting power to termial 14 2k41 relay on starer mod is energizing starer module not energizing 2k11 relay.

[Healey Nut]

Sounds like you have wired something wrong . 2k11 is your interlock relay to lock in the starter after the start command is give by the starter module . Have you tried to dry run the starter with techview ??
The start signal from the starter module is only a momentary contact 2K11 locks the starter in .

[chillertech257]

I would like some more info, I have installed lots of ch531 pannels.

[Healey Nut]

Me too

[chillertech257]

Also if the hpc is not wired/ conected it will do some strange things had a
ucp2 pannel that after an overhaul was trying to air run chiller, had the purge removed so the hpc was not conected and that caused the starter not to pull in kind of what you are explaning don't rember the diagnostic it gave if it even gave me one at all.

[scott210]

Sounds like you have wired something wrong . 2k11 is your interlock relay to lock in the starter after the start command is give by the starter module . Have you tried to dry run the starter with techview ??
The start signal from the starter module is only a momentary contact 2K11 locks the starter in .

you r right i ment 2k12 start relay, i have done dry run and the trane techs also did dry run works ok dry, but will not energize during normal start. the start signal is momentary,but start relay is not being energized to send voltage to interlock relay. graham is thinking the same thing that myself the and the other tech with 40 years exp and both trane techs were thinking. Not that it couldn't be in the wiring it just seems unlikely. but it's possiable.

[scott210]

well guys, 3 trane techs later i am still struggling(them as well)with this issure. anyone have any thoughts on this problem?

[CaptJackSparrow]

So you are converting a black panel or UCP2 panel? Did you install the starter mod that comes with the CH530 and rewire the starter panel?

[Healey Nut]

Its not rocket science . Do you have 110v to the stop contact on the starter module ,the stop contact is internally connected on the board to the start contact. This is a momentary closure contact . It sends power to the start contactor and 2K11 which locks the the starter into sequence then as long as the starter module sees amp draw and you have wired all the auxillary contacts correctly the module should do its thing and transition when its sees the dip in amp draw . The 110v comes from the HP switch .
If you can read the diagram and know how to use a meter its very simple .

[chillertech257]

Need info what are you trying to do/ what kind of conversion are you doing.

[jimbob73]

By chance are pilot relays being used for this starter?

[scott210]

i am trying to do a stand alone starter convertion, not a full retro. the existing controls are still on machine, temp controller,cap control, timers(restart inhibit, oil pump). starter module not engerzing start relay on starter module, i think if it was just wiring, myself or the many other people that have looked at this starter would have caught that. it's not rocket science, thanks for that little tip!

[scott210]

By chance are pilot relays being used for this starter?

please explain what u mean by pliot relays?

[klove]

Contrary to popular opinion, it's not hard to stop a Trane (heck, I've torn up at least 1 of everything out there!), but it can sure be the dickens gettin' one o' them thangs started sometimes, can't it, Scotty?

[scott210]

Contrary to popular opinion, it's not hard to stop a Trane (heck, I've torn up at least 1 of everything out there!), but it can sure be the dickens gettin' one o' them thangs started sometimes, can't it, Scotty?
u r very correct

[CaptJackSparrow]

Im lost here. Sounds now like you are installing just the starter mod that goes with a CH530 without the CH530???? Relacing the motor protection mod "black box"? Classic Black Panel?

[scott210]

yes i am installing starter module only, kit09437 which is replacing a cutler hammar mpm3000.

[Healey Nut]

please explain what u mean by pliot relays?

Scott210.
Your not going to like this but I have to ask if you dont know what pilot relays are and there purpose are you the right guy to be doing a starter retrofit ????

[chillrdude]

What kind of control panel is on this chiller? I dont think I have seen a MP3000 controller on any starter lower than 2300 volts. Do you have a wiring diagram for the Cutler Hammer starter?

[triggerhappy]

This may shed some light on the subject.
Kit09437

This kit replaces the original RLY00765 and utilizes some components from Tracer CH531. Note that this is NOT a complete CH531 retrofit package. Installation will include download of CH531 software and associated programming." Three Current Transformers (CTs) are required to complete installation of this KIT and must be ordered separately. See PART-SVN82A-EN for selection and ordering information. CH530 & CH531 knowledge and tools are required for this installation. PART-SVN82A-EN Service Literature ships with this component. NEMA 1 applications only. SEE E-LIBRARY UNDER KIT NUMBER FOR CONTENTS OF KIT

[scott210]

trane, solve problem today, by installing a latching relay between termial 13&14.

[mkn8632]

This may shed some light on the subject.
Kit09437

This kit replaces the original RLY00765 and utilizes some components from Tracer CH531. Note that this is NOT a complete CH531 retrofit package. Installation will include download of CH531 software and associated programming." Three Current Transformers (CTs) are required to complete installation of this KIT and must be ordered separately. See PART-SVN82A-EN for selection and ordering information. CH530 & CH531 knowledge and tools are required for this installation. PART-SVN82A-EN Service Literature ships with this component. NEMA 1 applications only. SEE E-LIBRARY UNDER KIT NUMBER FOR CONTENTS OF KIT

I found this really useful!

Thanks !

[CaptJackSparrow]

Ditto Trigger!

Sorry for picking on you in the other thread! "kinda"

[triggerhappy]

I assume that you are talking about the other starter thread.

I was just about to suggest that they hire an illegal to hold in the contactors.

[CaptJackSparrow]

I assume that you are talking about the other starter thread.

I was just about to suggest that they hire an illegal to hold in the contactors.


We have all the illegals hired up already anyway!