Enerkon Corp.

[Reak]

Anyone ever use these guys? I am putting one in my house as an experiment for our area. {Someone has to test them, might as well be me}


http://www.enerkoncorp.com/showart.asp?contentID=15408


Thanks
REAK

[Diceman]

your house is gonna be as drafty as an old barn. The thing will never shut off and the air will be very cool. At least with fossil fuels heat actually blows out of the registers.
And once you are used to that ya can never go back.
How much you getting to be the guinea pig on this deal?

[bridger]

I am considering the system since it claims to work at such a low temp, but have been told it may not have been tested by ARI. Are there other "cold climate" heat pumps? Do they really meet the claim that they approach the efficiency of geothermal? It seem too good to be true.

[Reak]

Dice,
I think anytime you go more efficient, you are going to sacrifice some comfort. That is just the way it is. Can't have both worlds.

Thanks
REAK

[Diceman]

Not so, 97% gas fired furnaces are very comfortable as are high seer A/C units. They just cost more.
Buy some sweaters, it's gonna be a long winter up there in the cold north I think.

[Reak]

What is the discharge air temp of your 97% efficient furnace, and what is the discharge air temp of an old fuel oil furnace that is operating at 60% efficiency? When we are changing fuel sources, we do sacrifice comfort for efficiency. You said it yourself, with the heat pump.

[Diceman]

of a high efficient furnace is still very hot, the venting is cooler but who cares bout dat. Not so with any heat pump, which is why they suck.

[Reak]

OK Dice. Let's break out the manuals. The recommended temp rise on a 90% furmace is most often 45-70 degrees. A 70 degree return air at a 60 temp rise is = to 130 degrees. Comfortable? Yes. But these fuel oil furnaces kicked the fan on at 150 degrees. More comfortable? yes. Sacrificing comfort for efficiency. You ever take out a fuel oil furnace and replace with a gas high efficient furnace? Customers hate them because they don't feel as warm. Now, granted, I know there is more btu's in oil than gas. Why did they not stick with fuel oil? To save money. I think we are debating two different things, and you do have a point about the heat pump discharge air, but if we did not want to sacrifice comfort for money, we would all be putting in 100% electric heat and let our customers pay through the nose to run it.

[dec]

I know how most of us feel about air sorce heat pumps in cold climates but Ive always thought that if I ever decide to replace my gas furnace that I would like to put in a heat pump with a high 90% gas furnace as backup heat.I have never heard of this brand of heat pump but the way that the electrical companies around here push the water source heat pumps....I hope that we see more heat pumps for colder climates.I know that I have always had the opinion that heat pumps are cold and drafty but a few years back I spent some time visiting a friend in tenn.I know its not at all as cold there as in the northern areas but I was really suprised that it was as comfortable as it was and really didnt seem all that drafty being Im used to gas heat.I recently vasited another friend in seattle and to my suprise he had a gas furnace with a heat pump......I know milder climate but as I start to see that combination out there more often it makes me wonder how long it will be until that may be the way to go.I have totally stayed away from geo thermal being Im not really wanting to get into everything that goes along with putting in the loops or drilling wells. I would appreciate hearing a little more on everyones opinion on heat pumps with a gas backup....it really interests me.I know your looking at a lot more cost that way.....but I feel it may not be a bad backup plan to sell if the propane & natural gas rates change the way they have lately.I guess Im just trying to look at it a little more objectably then the way I have over the last the past 25 years.I guess all of us get a little set in our ways and Im always looking for a little differant niche in the market.

[Diceman]

but when I find em.....look out.....
I understand your point Chris, but older furnaces discharge air varied between 150 and 100. 130 is still a nice comfortable, warm feeling temp. 70 is drafty to me.
Maybe in my old age I am getting picky and since I have hot water baseboard, the best heat there is, spoiled as well.
Good luck, and what is the deal, you get the system for free to check it out?
What is you backup or alternate, gas, electric, oil?
Fall fashions are out.
Lot of nice sweaters in the stores right now.

[DeltaT]

Some how I end up working on this kind of stuff - not one of these yet but I hope to -- and the technical side looks so good but when you get your hands on them, well, this is the stuff I run into.

This is a spiffy heat pump with all the gadgets. It came out of the factory with a split weld at the heat exchanger. I fixed. Manufactured reduced my repair cost $200.00 and won't pay anymore. It's OK for me cause I get paid in full by the company that hired me in the first place.

Two months later owner calls and says he shut down machine cause it sounds like a wheat thrasher. Compressor fell through the pan and was vibrating on the ABS plastic. I installed a sheet of plywood under the compressor and heat exchanger for temp support until the factory sends a new one to the owner. They say they won't.

My point. If this company matches their craftsmanship with all the high tech words, then they can be a winner. But if they promote more than they build, then it's not worth it. Repairing these things cost and arm and a leg most of the time. So the owner saves energy but not money in the long run.

http://www.imagewiz.net/images/hvactalk/179677_HVACTalk.JPG

[oil-2-4-6-gas]

i hope this is not a heat pump for north of virginia //

[Diceman]

Reak lives in the great white north of Minnesota I think.

[bridger]

Reak:

Any update on the new heat pump? I just received my natural gas bill @ $9.75/MCF. Electricity @ .06 looks better and better.
--Bridger

[Diceman]

His fingers are too cold to type.

[koololdman]

Bridger, since most electricity is produced using natural gas turbines, I think you will find the increase in gas reflected as a surcharge on your electric bill.

[Reak]

Originally posted by bridger
Reak:

Any update on the new heat pump? I just received my natural gas bill @ $9.75/MCF. Electricity @ .06 looks better and better.
--Bridger


It has not been cold enough to evaluate properly as of yet!


Thanks
REAK

[condenseddave]

You're not gonna let him call you names, are you?????

[Reak]

Originally posted by condenseddave
You're not gonna let him call you names, are you?????

Does that work in here?

[bridger]

Reak--
I'm toasty warm with my new boiler, but I'm still intrigued by the possibility of a cold climate heat pump. Although I'd never recoup the initial investment, the cost per therm of electricity (even with a requested 9% increase to the current .06/kwh rate) seems to be much more economical that natural gas at now $12/mcf. I hate being robbed by a monopolistic gas supplier. I'd consider a HP for a future house, or maybe to replace my 16 year old a/c compressor, if the HP could delay considerably my use of gas in the winter. Any updates on your experience with the Enerkon?

Of course, if Boss and RoBoTek will share their soon to be acquired Nigerian/Togo windfalls with the subscribers to this site, I won't worry about paying for heat ever again. Maybe the lawyers soliciting them will represent me to lower the cost of gas.

[Diceman]

Anybody in the northern half of the country that takes out a good boiler & hot water heating system and puts in a heat pump needs his head examined.

[xpertser]

Heat pumps are ugly as sin up here sitting on top of the 6 foot platforms.

[Reak]

So far it is operating extremely well and I am happy with it. Granted, it has only been in a short time. The cost to heat my house is roughly 1/2 compared to last year and we are running approxiamtely the same heating hours. I find it no more drafty than my 90+, which I still have just in case. Longjevity is still a question though. We'll wait and see.

Thanks
REAK

[bridger]

Reak--Just wondering if you had any updates on the cold climate heat pump--noise, A/C perfomance, other problems or benefits. I noticed a couple of other threads mentioning the system, but none as yet with actual installs. I'm still thinking about replacing my A/C with this unit, but only if I can use it to provide a significant portion of my heating (natural gas being $12/mcf, electricity .055.) Any info would be appreciated.--Thanks

[Reak]

It's all good so far. Supplies heat-pump comfort, not as bad as an air to air, and the operating costs are roughly half as much as the 90+. Wasn't a tremendously cold winter up here. No {mechanical} problems as of yet. The utility company is considering rebates, but have not got the final word on it. I have set a time line for 5 years before I will be able to give an accurate opinion.

REAK

[sctech]

brrrrrr glad I'm down south , no problems with air to air heat pumps here. oil heats a rarity here probably see one every 5 years or so.

[Diceman]

5 years????????????
You missed the convention by the way.

[Reak]

Originally posted by Diceman
5 years????????????
You missed the convention by the way.


5 Years! I want to make sure it is mechanically sound for an extended period before I give an opinion. Remember the drum furnaces by Rheem/Ruud. Everyone thought they were the best things for a year and than it went down hill in a hurry.

Sorry about the convention. It has been a very busy summer. I hope you all had a good time.

REAK

[Green Mountain]

Originally posted by Diceman
Anybody in the northern half of the country that takes out a good boiler & hot water heating system and puts in a heat pump needs his head examined.

I hate to sound like an old foggy and agree with Diceman. Those heat pumps don't burn snow you know.

[Diceman]

Originally posted by benncool


I hate to sound like an old foggy and agree with Diceman. [/B]
We looked pretty young at the convention........matter of fact, us old guys did real damn good.........rock on Beenie.

[bridger]

I don't plan to take out my existing hot water heat system. Since I will need to replace my A/C compressor soon, I thought about replacing it with a heat pump. Even though the hp would be more expensive up front, I think it would allow me to heat my house for a lot longer in the fall and spring without having to pay the exorbitant cost of natural gas in this area except on the days the heat pump can't keep up with the heat loss in my house. At $12/mcf ($1.20/therm?) for gas, @ 83% efficiency, and 5.5 cents/kwh for electricity (I don't have my /therm calculation handy for electricity, figuring a 3.2 cop), and 100,000 btu heat loss, I think I would save a lot in energy costs by using a heat pump to help with the heat. Maybe I'm way off base, but I like to have an alternative to $12/mcf. $600-700/month for 3-4 cold months should be able to be cut considerably with a heat pump, I hope, as well as eliminating a few milder months heat bills entirely.