TXV's and new systems

[fixer]

Hi Guys
I am a service tech with a hvac company in Spartanburg, SC and I have been noticing in the past few years a growing problem with TXV's going bad more often. I have asked our service manager to contact the factory and find out why and in the mean time I wonder if some of you may know what is going on. I made a commit that we need to get a handle on the problem with the R-410A systems we do not want to open the systems any more than we have to. I also have ask to check with the installer and make sure they protect the bulb of the TXV while sweating on the suction line. I was told years ago to remove the bulb while sweating the line to keep the bulb cool. I know that todays systems is often not easy to remove the bulb from the suction line but we need to. Also are we purging nitrogen through the lines while sweating the lines?
Any insite in this problem is helpful.
BJ

[BobbyBJr]

Yeah, it has been a industry wide problem, but I have seen many clogged from bad brazing practices too. I was in a distributor about 6 months ago and they had a large pile of bad txv's sorted out by the contractor that returned them for warranty. Seems some contractors had about a 90% failure rate and some about 20% using the same equipment, so it makes you wonder. I know we've had our share and it hasn't been limited to any one brand, but it has been alot better this year over last.

[fixer]

Thanks Bobby

[ChuckHVAC]

We have had a lot of TXV trouble the past couple years. We are extremely careful not to overheat them, and we always use a nitrogen purge. Some over feed some under feed. We've had so much trouble that we take a extra TXV with us for every start up.

[johncavh]

this should be in the pro section.

[BaldLoonie]

What? We don't want homeowners to know how bad the systems being sold today are? :( They're the ones that caused it.

Fixer, you need to get signed up as a professional member. We normally do like to talk technical in the pro tech forum. I don't see this as out of line for here but others might.

[riderman]

[QUOTE=BaldLoonie;4180722]What? We don't want homeowners to know how bad the systems being sold today are? :( They're the ones that caused it.

Ya gatta be kiddin here with that statement, right? :)

[Daltex]

[QUOTE=BaldLoonie;4180722]What? We don't want homeowners to know how bad the systems being sold today are? :( They're the ones that caused it.

Ya gatta be kiddin here with that statement, right? :)

I see home owners all the time with a bicycle pump with an attachment just pumping air into the suction service port. Some will dump a pinch or two of sand into the liquid line while the installer is lining up the line set.:)

The best is to switch his nitrogen tank with a tank of dry chlorine gas.:eek:

[beenthere]

What? We don't want homeowners to know how bad the systems being sold today are? :( They're the ones that caused it.

Fixer, you need to get signed up as a professional member. We normally do like to talk technical in the pro tech forum. I don't see this as out of line for here but others might.
We don't make the parts. We just suffer with them like the customer does.

Yep, he needs to get his app in.


I don't see where this would violate any rule either.

[BaldLoonie]

Sure, homeowners caused this.

20 years ago you could get a nice family car for 15K, now it's 25K.

Now a 13 SEER A/C costs us hardly any more than a 10 SEER used to. A 90+ isn't that much more than an 80 was in 1989. And now 10 year warranties instead of 1 year.

So why is this? Homeowners beat the crap out of us for lowest price. So everytime our reps are in we beat the crap out of them for lower prices. They beat the factory for lower prices, they look for the cheapest crap they can get. Their suppliers cut costs, build in 3rd world countries, and turn out junk.

So until homeowners are willing to pay the bucks required to make reliable produce, we're going to have TXV problems, capacitors, boards ...

[ChuckHVAC]

Personally I don't blame the homeowners. Mostly the customer just wants to pay a fair price for a product that will reliability keep them comfortable.
I blame it on three main factors.

1. Quality contractors who feel the need to try to compete with low ball bids from competitors who either don't know how or don't care enough to install a system properly.
You know the guys, no license, no insurance, no overhead. Maybe doing it part time while working a full time job where they get their health insurance, etc.

2. Because of low ball competition some contractors send the message to the manufacturers that price is the number one consideration in choosing a brand.

3. As long as any manufacturer is willing to accept low quality (usually Chinese) components, then most other manufacturers will follow suit to compete.

Of course this is a complex and frustrating situation as we are running out of quality US made options for many components.

I just hate to see any one blame the end customer. My customers are great people who provide my income. Yes there are a few who haven't figured out that low cost and poor quality is a bad bet to make, but most customers understand that buying crap usually ends up feeling like crap.

[jpsmith1cm]

Sure, homeowners caused this.

20 years ago you could get a nice family car for 15K, now it's 25K.

Now a 13 SEER A/C costs us hardly any more than a 10 SEER used to. A 90+ isn't that much more than an 80 was in 1989. And now 10 year warranties instead of 1 year.

So why is this? Homeowners beat the crap out of us for lowest price. So everytime our reps are in we beat the crap out of them for lower prices. They beat the factory for lower prices, they look for the cheapest crap they can get. Their suppliers cut costs, build in 3rd world countries, and turn out junk.

So until homeowners are willing to pay the bucks required to make reliable produce, we're going to have TXV problems, capacitors, boards ...

Beautifully put.