Rheem 18 SEER 2 Stage - Thermostat?

[asiano]

I had a Rheem 18 SEER 2 Stage AC installed this week. The dealer did not install the Rheem 500 Series Thermostat. I'm just trying to understand why they did not install the Rheem 500. I would like the additional humidity controls the 500 series thermostat provides. However, before I complain I would like to be a little better educated on the subject.

Is it difficult to install the 500 Series Thermostat? My AHU is in an upstairs closet and the thermostat is on the wall just outside the AHU. Do they need to run a wire from the outside unit to the thermostat which could be difficult?

Overall, I am happy with the unit and cannot believe how quite it is when only Stage 1 is running which is most of the time.

Thanks

[BaldLoonie]

It would be more likely that additional wire may be needed from stat to air handler for the dehumidify function. Or he can skip the Rheem/White-Rodgers control and use a Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ that uses 3 wires from wall unit to control at air handler.

[Airmechanical]

It would be more likely that additional wire may be needed from stat to air handler for the dehumidify function. Or he can skip the Rheem/White-Rodgers control and use a Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ that uses 3 wires from wall unit to control at air handler.

as far as the 2 speed Rheem communicating system;

that communicating t-stat requires no extra wire for any type of dehumidification

the stat does require 4 wires to the airhandler

outside can get away with 2 wires

the older non communicating style variable speed air handlers, do use the extra wire for On Demand Dehumidification



.

[sktn77a]

The 500 series thermostat will only work with the RASL-XXX-JEC model condensers. It is a digital serial communicating thermostat and will not work with the RASL-XXX-JEZ series, which you may have (the 500 has only 4 wires for everything). I suspect you have the JEZ condenser. Unless you have the Rheem modulating furnace, you don't need the Rheem 400 or 500 thermostats (if you do have the Rheem modulating furnace, the you must use only the Rheem 400 or 500 series thermostat).

[asiano]

The 500 series thermostat will only work with the RASL-XXX-JEC model condensers. It is a digital serial communicating thermostat and will not work with the RASL-XXX-JEZ series, which you may have (the 500 has only 4 wires for everything). I suspect you have the JEZ condenser. Unless you have the Rheem modulating furnace, you don't need the Rheem 400 or 500 thermostats (if you do have the Rheem modulating furnace, the you must use only the Rheem 400 or 500 series thermostat).

I have a RASL-JEC condenser with the Comfort Control 2 system. I also have the matching AHU. Based on what I have read from the replies, it looks like I need the 500 Series thermostat. I'm ok with that as long as they do not have to start drilling holes in my walls, etc. They installed a White-Rodgers 1F85-275 thermostat. Based on that, can I assume that I already have the necessary wiring in place to take advantage of the Comfort Control 2 system or will they need to add additional wires, etc?

Thanks

[BaldLoonie]

They cheaped out on you. At least they used a 2 stage stat! Shouldn't need any extra wires for the communicating system.

[sktn77a]

What thermostat did they quote you? In any event, get the Rheem 500 series thermostat put in - you're running your race car on 87 octane gas!

[asiano]

They cheaped out on you. At least they used a 2 stage stat! Shouldn't need any extra wires for the communicating system.

I'll be calling my AC company first thing Monday morning to get the Series 500 thermostat.

I didn't do my homework. My AC compressor died last weekend on a 12 year old unit - so I rushed to get a new AC. It's hard to survive in South Florida without AC in the summer. I really didn't have time to research and they presented two options a high efficiency unit and a lower efficiency unit. After they showed the prices, net of the government tax credit, the high efficiency unit seemed to be a no brainer. When they put together the package they just listed a thermostat. I asked if it was programmable, they said no, so I insisted that they modify the order to include a programmable thermostat - not knowing that there were better options regarding function. I was only concerned with how many days you could program wanting at least a 5/1/1.

I really appreciate the education. Other than the thermostat issue - I am very happy with the unit and the AC company did a great job with the installation. I'm just a little disappointed that they did not fully explain my options.

[sktn77a]

Don't worry, you got a great system, you just need the 501 thermostat. Don't forget to register for the 10 year replacement warranty!

[docholiday]

You would need to know the full model numbers of the Outdoor and indoor units to make sure they are both serial compatable.

[asiano]

Don't worry, you got a great system, you just need the 501 thermostat. Don't forget to register for the 10 year replacement warranty!

I spoke to my installer today. They claimed that I do not need the Rheem Series 500 thermostat as it provides no benefit over what they provided (White-Rodgers 1F85-275). They also stated that the Series 500 thermostats are very sensitive and prone to breaking during power surges. However, they said that they would install the Series 500 thermostat for an additional fee (difference in cost between the two thermostats).

I called Rheem and they stated that it is common for the dealers not to match my system with a Series 500 thermostat. Although to get the full benefit of the system - you need the Series 500 thermostat. He stated that the technology is relatively new and many dealers do not fully understand it yet. The customer service rep then confused me a bit by stating that I would need additional wiring from the thermostat to the AHU. I thought from what I have read that the Series 500 thermostat is fully functional using your existing wiring.

I still want to get the Series 500 thermostat as I think that the dealer is just trying to ignore the issue. However, I don't want it if it requires any additional wiring or even worse for the dealer to install the Series 500 thermostat without using the serial communication. Does any of this make sense?

Thanks

[sktn77a]

I spoke to my installer today. They claimed that I do not need the Rheem Series 500 thermostat as it provides no benefit over what they provided (White-Rodgers 1F85-275).

Well, we all know there are a whole host of features of the 500 series that the 200 series don't have! (error checking, dehumidification, advanced programming...... the list goes on and on).



I called Rheem............ and they stated that the technology is relatively new and many dealers do not fully understand it yet.

BINGO! Unfortunately, I've found the only people who know the products are the in-house distributor technical specialists - not the dealer/installers and not Rheem customer service!



I still want to get the Series 500 thermostat as I think that the dealer is just trying to ignore the issue. However, I don't want it if it requires any additional wiring or even worse for the dealer to install the Series 500 thermostat without using the serial communication. Does any of this make sense?


If the system is installed correctly, it shouldn't need additional wires. According to the tech specs the thermostat has only 4 connectors (ie for 4 wires). I take it the air handler is their Prestige series communicating model (asI don't think their furnaces have the communicating control boards yet).

[Tim 1231]

My name is Tim Burke, Marketing for White-Rodgers the manufacturer of the controls and thermostat you referenced. While we do not manufacture the equipment, we do want to ensure you are satifisfied with the controls we manufacture. If you could send me your contact information and the contractor that installed the system we will be glad to investigate. I can be reached at tim.burke@emerson.com or you may call my office at 314-553-3174

[asiano]

I obtained a White Rodgers 1F99-1292 thermostat (which is a Rheem Series 500 equivalent) and had my AC company come to install the unit. They were here for 3 hours and could not get it to work. The AHU unit was working fine - both the fan and heating. However, the outside unit (condenser) would not go on. The installer said he was receiving Error Message Number 9 - Low Secondary Voltage.

If someone here knows what that means and how to remedy the situation, please let me know. In the meantime, they re-installed the original thermostat.

Thanks

[jerryd_2008]

I had a Rheem 18 SEER 2 Stage AC installed this week. ... cannot believe how quite it is when only Stage 1 is running which is most of the time.

Thanks

Believe it was a Rheem that I saw at an energy efficient home open house recently. Guy opened the door to the inside unit and I couldn't even hear it running! Impressive!


They cheaped out on you. At least they used a 2 stage stat! Shouldn't need any extra wires for the communicating system.

Don't mean to barge in but people talk about "communicating" systems here without definition. Is that just a protocol these systems use to minimize the wiring requirements between tstat, blower and outside unit? Isn't that similar, at least between the IAQ and the equipment interface module at the blower, that the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ tstat uses? I only needed 3 wires there but the furnace to the HP required 8. So I assume that this is not a communicating system.

[sktn77a]

I obtained a White Rodgers 1F99-1292 thermostat (which is a Rheem Series 500 equivalent)

White-Rodgers 1F99-1292? Never heard of it. It doesn't appear on the White-Rodgers web site either. Whatever thermostat you have, if it's WR, it won't work correctly with your modulating furnace (except as a 2 stage thermostat, which will use the furnace IFC to give you three stage timed operation).

None of the WR thermostats on their web site have the modulating terminal (PWM signal). White-Rodgers OEM the 400 and 500 series for Rheem but none of their own brand thermostats duplicate the modulating function (yet).

[sktn77a]

Don't mean to barge in but people talk about "communicating" systems here without definition. Is that just a protocol these systems use to minimize the wiring requirements between tstat, blower and outside unit?

It's a serial digital communication protocol (which I believe may be different for each manufacturer). As an analogy, the parallel communicating system on a computer printer has 25 wires while an RS232 serial printer needs only 3. The RS232 serial communication protocol is an industry standard but I doubt we'll see that in the HVAC industry!

[asiano]

White-Rodgers 1F99-1292? Never heard of it. It doesn't appear on the White-Rodgers web site either. Whatever thermostat you have, if it's WR, it won't work correctly with your modulating furnace (except as a 2 stage thermostat, which will use the furnace IFC to give you three stage timed operation).

None of the WR thermostats on their web site have the modulating terminal (PWM signal). White-Rodgers OEM the 400 and 500 series for Rheem but none of their own brand thermostats duplicate the modulating function (yet).

I got the model number from the back of the thermostat. It looks like the 1F95-1291 model.

I received the thermostat from White Rodgers and they thought that it would work just the same as the Rheem Series 500 thermostat - which they also make. Are saying that the White-Rodgers branded thermostat is slightly different and will not work with the Rheem equipment?

[Trog]

I got the model number from the back of the thermostat. It looks like the 1F95-1291 model.

I received the thermostat from White Rodgers and they thought that it would work just the same as the Rheem Series 500 thermostat - which they also make. Are saying that the White-Rodgers branded thermostat is slightly different and will not work with the Rheem equipment?

I am about to have a Rheem system installed that can use the 500 series thermostat, so I have been doing some digging. I have obtained the installation manuals for both the Rheem 500 thermostat and the WR 1F95-1291.

Superficially, they appear to be the same thermostat, but they are not the same. The 1F95-1291 and the 500 have different terminal designations. While I did not take time to dig into all the menus of both stats, there appear to be some differences. I believe the 500 is a customized 1F95-1291 manufactured by WR specifically for Rheem.

On the surface, at least, the WR 1F95-1291 does not appear to be a communicating thermostat. The Rheem 500 communicates on terminals 1 and 2 and gets power on R and C. There are no terminals designated R, 1, or 2 on the WR 1F95-1291. In addition, the WR product literature for the 1F95-1291 does not mention the term communicating thermostat.

I suppose it is possible that they are an identical product with relabeled terminals and internal software that allows the thermostat to determine what menus to display based on whose equipment it is talking to it. I would have to hear that from a technical expert at WR or Rheem to believe it.

[jerryd_2008]

It's a serial digital communication protocol (which I believe may be different for each manufacturer). As an analogy, the parallel communicating system on a computer printer has 25 wires while an RS232 serial printer needs only 3. The RS232 serial communication protocol is an industry standard but I doubt we'll see that in the HVAC industry!

Thanks, SK. It sounds like the communications that must take place over only 3 wires between the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ and its EIM at the furnace. Guess that means that there is "smarts" at the controlled end to translate the digital to the actual leads at the controlled equipment.

Seems like more manufacturers should go this way. Cables with 8 or more wires to thermostat, furnace, HP are ugly and preclude reuse of simpler existing cables with more complex equipment. I imagine it's a competitive/marketing thing but an industry standard would reduce the cost and education by developing standard chips to do the job.

[sktn77a]

I am about to have a Rheem system installed that can use the 500 series thermostat, so I have been doing some digging. I have obtained the installation manuals for both the Rheem 500 thermostat and the WR 1F95-1291.

I suppose it is possible that they are an identical product with relabeled terminals and internal software that allows the thermostat to determine what menus to display based on whose equipment it is talking to it. I would have to hear that from a technical expert at WR or Rheem to believe it.

The WR 1F95-1251 appears similar to the Rheem TST412, but without the modulating function (I have two Rheem RHC411 thermostats on two new systems in my home and a WR 1F95-1291 on my old single stage Rheem heat pump for the attic). The TST500 series are totally different.

[Airmechanical]

My name is Tim Burke, Marketing for White-Rodgers, we do want to ensure you are satifisfied with the controls we manufacturer.

that's cool that you take the time to respond

pass the word on, good job on the "500" series controller, it works fine

as stated by others, and as you know, if the O.P. has communicating equipment

then the "500" should be used to enable all the features of a communicating system

which most importantly in the summer, controls blower speed during dehumidification demand



.

[WillieOH]

The 500 series thermostat will only work with the RASL-XXX-JEC model condensers. It is a digital serial communicating thermostat and will not work with the RASL-XXX-JEZ series, which you may have (the 500 has only 4 wires for everything). I suspect you have the JEZ condenser. Unless you have the Rheem modulating furnace, you don't need the Rheem 400 or 500 thermostats (if you do have the Rheem modulating furnace, the you must use only the Rheem 400 or 500 series thermostat).

If I have a modulating furnace, I need the 400 or 500 series ts to allow the furnace to modulate? but my condeser won't benefit unless it is a high end condenser? What's the difference between JEC and JEZ? Both seem high end. Thanks.

[ulbhpy]

I got a Rheem RARL024JEC with a RGPE07 installed along with a Honeywell vision Pro 8000 thermostat TH8320U1008. I realize I should get a communicating thermostat installed. What do you recommend Rheem 501 or Honeywell IAQ. Is IAQ EIM needed for RGPE? Thanks. I am in Dallas area.

[Airmechanical]

I got a Rheem RARL024JEC with a RGPE07 installed along with a Honeywell vision Pro 8000 thermostat TH8320U1008. I realize I should get a communicating thermostat installed. What do you recommend Rheem 501 or Honeywell IAQ. Is IAQ EIM needed for RGPE? Thanks. I am in Dallas area.

get the 500 series comm.controller

.

[Mr Bill]

I got a Rheem RARL024JEC with a RGPE07 installed along with a Honeywell vision Pro 8000 thermostat TH8320U1008. I realize I should get a communicating thermostat installed. What do you recommend Rheem 501 or Honeywell IAQ. Is IAQ EIM needed for RGPE? Thanks. I am in Dallas area.


UHC-TST501CMMS RUUD COMMUNICATE STAT

[ga-hvac-tech]

UHC-TST501CMMS RUUD COMMUNICATE STAT

Agree with Bill,

If you have an RGPE furnace, you need to use the '501' or you will loose some features. Yes, the IAQ does some of it... but the Rheem/Ruud stat is matched to the system.

Use the Rheem/Ruud stat!