A-coil freezes only at night.

[PeteTx]

I live in a 1200 sq. ft. mobile home in South Texas - HOT and HUMID. Last month I had my condenser and evaporator coils replaced. The compressor was shot. Since it was an 18 y/o 10 SEER Coleman I had both replaced. The original system was a 3.5 ton unit. The replacement is a 3.5 ton unit (13 SEER) and the evaporator coil is rated 10 SEER with a TXV. I replaced the thermostat with a digital one.

The previous unit had to strain to keep the house at 85 when the temp passed 95. We get broadside sun from 3:00 pm on.

The new unit works great. It has been over 100 for 2 weeks straight and will keep the temp around 76 (unless my wife is cooking and then the temp goes to 85 - way better than the old unit). It runs long enough to dehumidify well. I have a digital weather center and the indoor humidity is usually around 25 - 30 %.

The e-coils have been freezing most nights around 3 am. The technician has been out 3 times to check everything out. The last time (last Friday) I probed for answers harder than usual. He said the condenser split was good and the pressures are right where they should be (thus the TXV was working). The temp right where the air enters the blower read 74 and the nearest vent read 56. This was when my wife cooking. The digital thermostat read 83. His digital thermometer read 78 when placed next to the thermostat. It was pretty uncomfortable because the humidity was up from cooking (open floor plan where kitchen and living room are open). He said the air flow was good and the ducts are not restricting air flow. He said trying to get to 70 degrees at night is the issue. Since there is no load on the system because of the cooler night temp, the e-coils freeze the condensate instead of the water draining into the pain.

He suggested setting the thermostat to 74 and see if that solved the issue. Tonight the temp was 74 and the coils froze again.

This technician has serviced my a/c for over 5 years and is extremely honest. He is also spoke at several conferences, so he's knowledgeable. During the last visit he did mention servicing mobile homes isn't his main source of business so he was going to talk to the regional experts. I haven't heard back, but I will definitely be talking to him today.

Could this be because the e-coils are rated for 10 SEER instead of 13 SEER? Does all of this ice put a strain on the new condenser (Ruud 13AJA R22)

I know I've rambled, but getting up at 3 am kind of fogs my brain and I've been doing it a lot lately.

I'm not a DIYer. I can't afford to have everything done twice. I do software, not a/c.

Thanks for your help and opinions.

[bmathews]

Hard to say without anybody being there to inspect. Hopefully the evaporator coil is clean and the filter is clean. Unfortunately, this is one of the problems when people try the mix and match thing. It is best to replace everything at once. When people opt out of matching systems, I write it on the service ticket that it is highly recommended and charge them for a service call everytime I have to go out for issues related to this and I tell them I will upfront and write it on the service ticket as well. After the 2nd call, they usually finish the job.

[gary_g]

It is best to replace everything at once.

He did replace both the evap coil and condenser, but used a 10 SEER evap coil on a 13 SEER condenser. Not sure why he didn't match the new coil with the new condenser.

[PeteTx]

Thanks for responding.

He said he couldn't get a 13 SEER coil the same size as the old one (to fit an Intertherm furnace) and the regional experts supply house gave him a 10 SEER and said to use a TXV and it would be fine. I looked at the manufacturer's web site and they have an ARI matched coil the same size. The one he installed is ARI rated for a 3 ton 13 SEER. Sounds twisted.

[derbysr]

Mobile home coils are smaller becuase of space restriction, but still there is an coil that can fit the sitation you in , as long it fits the cabinet, just need to do the match up , if not already done.Probaly for you're situation on frezzing up the coil not enough air coming in , or air filters plug up ,even the motor might be going off by chance.

[teddy bear]

Raise the t-stat a couple more degrees at nite. Regards TB

[PeteTx]

derbysr,

I have been awake when the coils started to freeze (insomnia). The blower is going just as hard as during the day. My technician said the blower is moving enough air.

teddy bear,

It's freezing at 74 degrees. I don't believe that's normal or acceptable for a new system.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. He's stumped bad on this one. He's going to replaced the TXV in case it's not working. Kind of shooting in the dark right now. I never had this problem with the previous unit. That Coleman could get to 65. I know because my wife thinks turning it lower will make it cool faster and she would forget to turn the thermostat setting to a normal temp. I have a digital theromostat now and she's afraid to mess with it.

PeteTx

[classical]

derbysr,

I have been awake when the coils started to freeze (insomnia). The blower is going just as hard as during the day. My technician said the blower is moving enough air.

teddy bear,

It's freezing at 74 degrees. I don't believe that's normal or acceptable for a new system.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. He's stumped bad on this one. He's going to replaced the TXV in case it's not working. Kind of shooting in the dark right now. I never had this problem with the previous unit. That Coleman could get to 65. I know because my wife thinks turning it lower will make it cool faster and she would forget to turn the thermostat setting to a normal temp. I have a digital theromostat now and she's afraid to mess with it.

PeteTx

Teddy Bear is right turn the t'stat up and it probably will not freeze.

There is no such thing as a 10 SEER or 13 SEER coil, a coil will affect the SHR of a system and it will affect the SEER/EER of a system but evaporator coils do not have SEER ratings PERIOD!

There are three reasons a coil will freeze up, low on refrigerant charge, insufficient airflow across the coil or a bad or restricted metering device.

You may have confidence in your tech but he is missing something buy I doubt it is the coil. How is he measuring the airflow, is he just testing with his hand or is he using an instrument. As he tested the static pressure of the system, is the blower wheel dirty, is the return duct collapsing.

[awproduct]

Hello
The problem sound like the thermostatic expansion valve [TXV] maybe the wrong size or need ajustment.

[PeteTx]

classical and teddy bear,

I meant no offense. I'm thinking a normal functional system would not freeze when the room temp is 74.

The return duct is the vented furnace door and it's clear, the filters are new every 2 weeks and are the blue fiberglass type, the blower assembly was just cleaned during the down time waiting for the new system to be installed. The ductwork is metal, square (12" X 18" and there are 8 vents (5" X 12").

As far as I know, the air flow was determined by the temp split between the nearest vent and just outside the blower wheel in the furnace cabinet. The old unit was 18 years old but the blower motor was replaced about 2 years ago. Should the new coil require more cfm than the old one? As for the SEER rating, pardon me. I should have said, Mortex documents only show an ARI certified SEER rating when the ne coils are matched with a Ruud 13AJA-36. Mortex says I need 1 more row of coils and different fins to get the ARI certification for a Ruud 13AJA-42.

Thanks again for your help.

PeteTx

[Caveman1234]

Post a picture of the a/h and evap coil.

[Doug Lockhart]

I live in a 1200 sq. ft. mobile home in South Texas - HOT and HUMID. Last month I had my condenser and evaporator coils replaced. The compressor was shot. Since it was an 18 y/o 10 SEER Coleman I had both replaced. The original system was a 3.5 ton unit. The replacement is a 3.5 ton unit (13 SEER) and the evaporator coil is rated 10 SEER with a TXV. I replaced the thermostat with a digital one.

The previous unit had to strain to keep the house at 85 when the temp passed 95. We get broadside sun from 3:00 pm on.

The new unit works great. It has been over 100 for 2 weeks straight and will keep the temp around 76 (unless my wife is cooking and then the temp goes to 85 - way better than the old unit). It runs long enough to dehumidify well. I have a digital weather center and the indoor humidity is usually around 25 - 30 %.



The e-coils have been freezing most nights around 3 am. The technician has been out 3 times to check everything out. The last time (last Friday) I probed for answers harder than usual. He said the condenser split was good and the pressures are right where they should be (thus the TXV was working). The temp right where the air enters the blower read 74 and the nearest vent read 56. This was when my wife cooking. The digital thermostat read 83. His digital thermometer read 78 when placed next to the thermostat. It was pretty uncomfortable because the humidity was up from cooking (open floor plan where kitchen and living room are open). He said the air flow was good and the ducts are not restricting air flow. He said trying to get to 70 degrees at night is the issue. Since there is no load on the system because of the cooler night temp, the e-coils freeze the condensate instead of the water draining into the pain.

He suggested setting the thermostat to 74 and see if that solved the issue. Tonight the temp was 74 and the coils froze again.

This technician has serviced my a/c for over 5 years and is extremely honest. He is also spoke at several conferences, so he's knowledgeable. During the last visit he did mention servicing mobile homes isn't his main source of business so he was going to talk to the regional experts. I haven't heard back, but I will definitely be talking to him today.

Could this be because the e-coils are rated for 10 SEER instead of 13 SEER? Does all of this ice put a strain on the new condenser (Ruud 13AJA R22)

I know I've rambled, but getting up at 3 am kind of fogs my brain and I've been doing it a lot lately.

I'm not a DIYer. I can't afford to have everything done twice. I do software, not a/c.

Thanks for your help and opinions.

DON'T match a 10 SEER DX coil with a 13 SEER outdoor unit plus it is illegal to put anything in below 13 SEER......If your guy is speaking at HVAC/R engagements, he of all people should know that.....bottom line....you got a set of 6" wide tires on a dragster....too much horsepower....not enough method to place it to the ground (air), plus Mobile Homes are notoriously bad for too small of ductwork....IMHO...

[teddy bear]

derbysr,

I have been awake when the coils started to freeze (insomnia). The blower is going just as hard as during the day. My technician said the blower is moving enough air.

teddy bear,

It's freezing at 74 degrees. I don't believe that's normal or acceptable for a new system.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. He's stumped bad on this one. He's going to replaced the TXV in case it's not working. Kind of shooting in the dark right now. I never had this problem with the previous unit. That Coleman could get to 65. I know because my wife thinks turning it lower will make it cool faster and she would forget to turn the thermostat setting to a normal temp. I have a digital theromostat now and she's afraid to mess with it.

PeteTx
Systems that are have the air flow slowed to max the moisture removal have very cold coils. As the outside air temp drops in the evening, the capacity of the outdoor condenser increases. Add to this that you are able to get the house cooler and the indoor coil temp goes lower-bingo freezing. After you figure out how to increase the air flow, increasing the indoor coil temperature gets you less dehumidification. Sometimes is a fine line between good dehumidification and a freezing coil. Raise the inside temp until you do not have a freezing coil. Then decide if you want less dehumidification by raising the air flow which warms the coil temperature. Small coils freeze up easy but do a good job of dehumidifying. 76^F is with low humidity might be ok. Regards TB

[the dangling wrangler]

DON'T match a 10 SEER DX coil with a 13 SEER outdoor unit plus it is illegal to put anything in below 13 SEER......If your guy is speaking at HVAC/R engagements, he of all people should know that.....bottom line....you got a set of 6" wide tires on a dragster....too much horsepower....not enough method to place it to the ground (air), plus Mobile Homes are notoriously bad for too small of ductwork....IMHO...

Since when is it illegal to install 10 seer equipment?
That means I can't install the dozens of units I bought before?

[gary_g]

Since when is it illegal to install 10 seer equipment?

Maybe just in Canada :)

[the dangling wrangler]

Maybe just in Canada :)

Maybe. But, not in the states. :D


(Doug, if you edit, I'll edit.)

[PeteTx]

Doug Lockhart,

Thanks for your reply. The technician said the supply house told him ther coils are 10 SEER. The Mortex charts show the system is certified 13 SEER when paired to a 13AJA-36 (13 SEER 3 ton Ruud condenser). The more I think about it, the more frustrated I get. I have told him I think he needs to install the ARI certified coil. He says I would only get a piston type unit and it would not make a difference in my situation.

Hmmm... More efficient and less wear and tear on the compressor.

Does anyone have any documentation I can show him that proves the compressor won't last as long and that legally he has to use a SEER matched coil?

I'm really thankful for the help offered so far.

PeteTx

[gary_g]

Doug Lockhart,

Thanks for your reply. The technician said the supply house told him ther coils are 10 SEER. The Mortex charts show the system is certified 13 SEER when paired to a 13AJA-36 (13 SEER 3 ton Ruud condenser). The more I think about it, the more frustrated I get. I have told him I think he needs to install the ARI certified coil. He says I would only get a piston type unit and it would not make a difference in my situation.

Hmmm... More efficient and less wear and tear on the compressor.

Does anyone have any documentation I can show him that proves the compressor won't last as long and that legally he has to use a SEER matched coil?

I'm really thankful for the help offered so far.

PeteTx

There is no legality of mis-matching components. You lose some btu ouput and efficiency with the smaller sized evap coil. If it were a heat pump, a mis-match would be even more of a concern.

Question for the pro's:
Isn't the TXV selected based on the condenser, not the evap coil, even in a SEER mis-matched system?

Thanx.

[the dangling wrangler]

Seems like these days, there's two size valves, small and large. (evasive enough?)

Peter,question for you. What did the propasal say, as to the model number, and make of coil you were supposed to get.

If you didn't have one, you're gonna have a hard time trying to hammer this contractor.

[beenthere]

That coil may be your whole problem.

Are you sure your old unit was a 3.5 ton.

Could be a combination of low air flow and too small of an indoor coil.

Since he does speaking engaugements.
He should also have teh meters to actually check air flow. In CFM, instead of just how hard its blowing out.
Ask him to check and verify CFM.

[heaterman]

All mismatching aside, the bottom line is the coil is to cold. The causes have been discussed earlier on as to why a coil can ice. A solution we use for small commercial equipment where store employees constantly set temps too low (bridal shops are the worst offenders), we install freeze detection probes in the evaporator coils and drop the compressor out until the system catches up, same thing we do with zoned systems to prevent icing when zone demand is light but capacity is high.

[the dangling wrangler]

All mismatching aside, the bottom line is the coil is to cold. The causes have been discussed earlier on as to why a coil can ice. A solution we use for small commercial equipment where store employees constantly set temps too low (bridal shops are the worst offenders), we install freeze detection probes in the evaporator coils and drop the compressor out until the system catches up, same thing we do with zoned systems to prevent icing when zone demand is light but capacity is high.

Funny you should mention that.
I worked on a mobile home a few years back with this same problem.
Ended up installing a freeze stat.

[PeteTx]

Wow,

Thanks guys. I've never posted on a forum where so many are willing to help.

teddy bear:

I see what you mean now. Since the new system was installed, we have had 100+ days and nights between 76 and 80. We raised the temp from 72 to 74 and everything was OK for a few days. Yesterday, a cool front blew through and the high was only 96 with a low of around 72. I guess we got close to the outside temp again. I need a lower temp to sleep (medical reason and too long to discuss). 74 isn't a problem. 78 during the day is great because the ac runs long enough to remove the humidity. Not too great at 3 am.

dangling wrangler,

If I remember correctly, the proposal had the model of the condenser and an evap coil. I don't remember a SEER rating.

heaterman,

I don't think my technician does commercial stuff, but I'll mention what you suggest. Does this method stop and start the compressor only or the whole condenser?

Y'all are great!

PeteTx

[PeteTx]

You guys are fast. Mr. Wrangler, I'll ask him about a "freeze stat". Thanks again.

You know, I have a BS degree in Computer Science. I'm glad I didn't and don't have to calculate all of the variables you guys do. It's infinitely more complex than I thought. Not any Bubba can do this stuff. 8^)

[the dangling wrangler]

You guys are fast. Mr. Wrangler, I'll ask him about a "freeze stat". Thanks again.

You know, I have a BS degree in Computer Science. I'm glad I didn't and don't have to calculate all of the variables you guys do. It's infinitely more complex than I thought. Not any Bubba can do this stuff. 8^)

That "freeze stat" was a last resort. I started reading this, to see what others would have done, or to see if I left any stones unturned.
So far, I was in the same ball park. ;)

[classical]

Pete I was not suggesting you should know that evap. coils do not have a SEER rating that is for the techs that should know better. On a straight cool system you can put a 2-ton nominally rated coil on a 5-ton and it will work and you can put a 5-ton nominally rated coil on a 2-ton. It is all about airflow and refrigerant charge.

As for Doug he is full of misinformation!

A qualified tech can verify if the TXV is functioning properly or not and they should also be able to quantify the CFM's being delivered by the system.

I have not worked on a mobile home for years but I do know their duct systems are more restrictive than other duct systems.

A freeze stat and raising the set point are temporary solutions and the real problem needs to be determined.

[Shophound]

Condensing unit and compressor set system capacity. If evaporator is physically smaller than it should be for the compressor and condenser it is attached to, it will run lower suction pressures than normal. Might be okay during a good heat load but when the heat load falls off, the coil suction pressure drops to where the surface temp of the coil begins freezing the condensate.

I would also seek less intensive heat methods of cooking the evening meal during the summer months. Running an oven adds lots of heat to the house, and, depending on what's for supper, cooking can add a lot of moisture to the air as well, which the a/c system will spend some time removing, possibly far into the night.

Airflow should also be looked at, as well as the actual performance of the refrigeration system (superheat, subcooling, etc.). It's not enough to say "pressures look good" and hold a hand up to a vent near the furnace and say "air flow is good". These parameters should be measured.

[PeteTx]

Thanks classical. I'm thinking of getting a "second opinion" from another company. It will be worth the expense to make sure everything is correct.

Since there is a TXV on the coils, should I suggest a compressor delay switch? I couldn't tell you why it might be needed, but I do remember it was suggested.

Thanks again!

PeteTx

[PeteTx]

Thanks Shophound,

I am going to install a new vent hood that should move more air out of the kitchen. My wife usually keeps the cooking to a minimum in the summer months. Unfortunately we were having company come over.

If my tech doesn't do the things all of you have suggested, I will get someone else to look at it and present him with the bill! Probably won't do any good, but I'll have statisfaction. He really is a great guy. He just doesn't do mobile homes much.

PeteTx

[classical]

Any compressor with a TXV should have a time delay and a recip should have a start assit kit. Some Scrolls should have an assist and all Scrolls should have a time delay TXV or not.

Shophound is absolutely correct.

[Doug Lockhart]

The 13 SEER only law was brought in by the USA guys.....us dumb Canucks only follow what the USA decides......
As for mixing and matching 10/13/15/17 SEER equipment.....remember 2/3 of 4/5 of 5/8 of f--- all is still f--- all.....
The piston orifice is rated at 'X' tons at 'Y' PD across it and when the O/T goes down overnight the PD drops and the SST drops below 26 degF thus you go ice which slows the air flow which decreased coil temp which ices the coil more which slows the air flow which...........
For the sake of $80-100 more in a coil you waste electricity (Mass flow X CR/42.42=HP required) on a smaller coil, risk oil return and shorten the compressor life......
Short Version put matched equipment in with a TEV

As my old partner used to say You don't beat refrigeration, it'll beat you though if you cut corners....every frickin' time

[beenthere]

A time delay won't prevent a coil from freezing up.

It will protect the compressor from short cycling though.

[PeteTx]

Thanks for all of the help and encouragement. My technician called to say he contacted Mortex to verify what the regional "experts" told him about mobile home units. He discovered the "experts" are full of something pretty foul. The coil they gave him is actually matched/certified to a 13AJA36 (3 ton 13 SEER Ruud). He is going by tomorrow to demand the correct coil and pack the foul stuff in some more. I hope he wears boots.

Also, during the call after the first freeze-up he did measure the CFM. I wasn't home so I didn't see it. The wife thought he was putting some kind of ice chest over the floor vent.

The specs indicate the compressor is self timed to prevent a startup for at least 4 minutes after it stops. Is that enough?

After reading all of this stuff and getting lost at Mr. Udelhoven's web site, my head really hurts. Making industrial web applications is a lot easier. Cooler too. When it gets hot the servers shut down. I feel for you guys always having to sit in the sun, crawl through hot attics and stinking crawl spaces.

PeteTx

[Shophound]

I feel for you guys always having to sit in the sun, crawl through hot attics and stinking crawl spaces.

PeteTx

We appreciate that. I was up on the roof of our woodshop building this afternoon changing out a condenser fan motor and blade that had died on a Trane Voyager package unit. We made the job go quick, but did it neat (no run cap bandit on my watch!) :D . On and off the roof in less than an hour. Hotter than blue blazes with a turbo booster up there. As a younger man I did that kind of thing day after day during southern California heat waves. HVAC service is not an easy life.

I hope your guy can get you squared away. Sounds like he's doing due dilgence to that end.

[classical]

Glad to hear your tech is following up and will fix your problem, sounds like he has a flow hood.

[PeteTx]

Oh well... :(

The guy never came out and now he doesn't answer my calls. I filed a BBB complaint so hopefully the next guy won't get burned.

I know I'm going to have to call another company and pay for fixing this mess.

Would y'all be willing to answer a few more questions and offer advice? Thanks in advance!

What does all of this do to my warranty?

Can I call any authorized Ruud dealer for service? I know they won't fix the coil issue. I'm wondering about future compressor problems.

Should I contact the Ruud rep for this area for a referral to another company?

I can't believe this guy is doing this. Over the years I've called him several times thinking I needed a new system and he found minor problems. He could have charged me for a new system years ago. I hope he didn't "stroke out" in the heat and I'm bad-mouthing him when he's down.

PeteTx

[catmanacman]

with this heat wave were having in Texas he is probably very busy give him a chance to make it right

[PeteTx]

Thanks catmanacman.

I would have no problem if there were scheduling issues, but he's not taking or returning my calls for the last week. And I did have a hard time getting him to realize the coils were incorrect. In his favor, the place he got them from still insist they are correct. Mortex says different.

As I said earlier, he's been great for the last 3 years. I have told everyone I know in the area to call him if they need work because he has always been so honest and friendly. It's not like him to not call for over a week. I just hope he's OK.

PeteTx

[TMH58]

I know this subject has been beat on quite a bit but here is my 10 cents worth.
Mobile Homes have limited duct systems, so you are at a disadvantage from the gitgo.That combined with the fact the Mortex coil is a four pass coil and is a more restrictive coil, if your ducts are not in a row,(pardon the pun) and your mismatch is a factor, at night you have lower ambient conditions which can contribute freeze ups. Is this a gas furnace or an electric furnace? If electric, you could put a higher profile 2 or three pass coil, which is less restrictive , and creates less static preesure on top of it. I am sorry I did not read all the threads, but what are your model numbers? I see this all the time, and have various fixes for it. How about adding a cross over on the duct if it is a double wide..................

[PeteTx]

CAUTION! RANT FOLLOWS!

TMH58,

Thanks for helping out. The furnace is an Intertherm MGHA-056. The installers upgraded the blower unit when it was installed to handle a Coleman 2442901 Condensing Unit. That system always cooled well except for the times the e-coils were replaced due to leaks. The new condenser is a Rudd 13AJA42.

Since I filed a complaint with the BBB, a couple of techs showed up unannounced at noon with a Mortex 96-8W4O-2P and told my wife they were there to fix the unit. I told them over the phone they could not install anything unless I was there to watch and I could not get there until 3:30 today. So, they took the old coils out and are driving 125 miles round trip to return them for a refund. "So they wouldn't be standing around until I got there." Sounds like a serious cash flow problem because he had to buy the new coils first.

My sons took my wife's van so she is waiting in 104 degrees for a neighbor to get home so she can visit in the ac.

How would you guys handle this?

The compressor was really quiet on 5/20. You could barely hear it above the condenser fan when standing next to it. Now it sounds like a little jack-hammer and you can hear it 100 feet away.

I'm really worried about warranty service in the future.

I would never have filed a complaint, but he would not talk to me at all. And if he is too busy to call me, why is he taking care of new business when he has not finished old business. If I did that in the software business, I would not have much work.

WHEW! I'm glad I got that out. Sorry for the rant.

PeteTx

[the dangling wrangler]

You should have let them install the coil.
You shouldn't have got the BBB involved.
I wouldn't blame them if the coil isn't installed for a week.
Don't even start complaining about the 104*

[PeteTx]

wrangler,

How long should someone with a faulty install wait for the installer to call back after he has missed 2 appointments?

[PeteTx]

As for installing the coils. I'm happy I did not let them install the coil. There is an LP pipe blocking a few inches of the coil box (?). To swap the new coils out they undid the flex line for the furnace at the end of the steel pipe. Undid the connection below the floor and puched the pipe down. These guys removed the control box from the furnace, disconnected the steel pipe, and then realized they needed to lossen it from blow and push it down. My wife said each one said he had no idea what to do. They talked about it for 15 minutes until they started to try something. They should have called the installers.

[the dangling wrangler]

Well Pete, you spoke highly of them before this incident.
What I would do is, re-install your original coil, refund your money, and never go back there again.


Not a lot of contractors will even work on trailers anymore.
Do to problems like this.



Good Luck with this mess. You're gonna need it.

[TMH58]

The MGHA furnace has 2 blower upgrades. One is a 2-3.5 ton nd one is a 2-4 ton. Not sure which one you have. Is your home a double wide? I am assuming it is a 3.5 ton capacity. That series coil IS the only one that will fit in that cabinet, so I would hope you put the 2-4 ton blower in. If it is a double wide, which would explain 3.5 ton, a cross over on the duct should be right under the furnace. If not, it should be. If one can't be put in there, than an extra one needs to be put in to reduce duct pressure. It is unfortunate you are having problems with this equipment. Is this contractor's expertise manufactured housing? If not they should be. That is a whole different ball of wax for a residential outfit to take care of. Not that they would not be qualified, but the high static duct systems NEED to be taken into consideration.

[PeteTx]

wrangler,

Thanks for the best wishes. I did request a refund and he could take everything out. Of course, he did not respond to that voice mail either. The name of the game is service. I write software for large corporations. If I can't make a deadline, I tell them just as soon as I can. If it's my fault, the contract usually calls for a penalty depending on how late and what requirements were not met. If I don't make an agreed deadline and I don't call them within 3 business days, they have the optoin to find someone else and I get nothing. No matter how many hours I put into it. Sure, I miss deadlines. Occassionally my fault. Usually not. But I always keep the bo$$ in the loop. My contracts require a response within 1 business day for requests for warranty support. I don't have to start on it right away, but I have to acknowledge the ticket. Everything depends on communication. I am resonable, just communicate.

TMH58,

Thank you for helping. I have a single wide. One long duct. 5" X 12". I just measured it. I don't know which blower was installed. The installation paperwork for the original coils were rated for 1250 cfm. That's not what I was expecting to see. Do the newer higher SEER systems need the same cfm as a 20 year old system?

I'm starting to think I need to upgrade the duct work to make it larger.

PeteTx

[catmanacman]

is the blower wheel clean i have seen some very dirty blowers in mobile homes due the the crappy filtration

[PeteTx]

Thanks catmanacman. I did clean the blower wheel while waiting for the new unit to be installed.

The correct coils were installed this afternoon. So far everything seems great. It was 100 degrees outside and inside (50% RH). In 20 minutes it was 93. An hour later it was 99 outside and 88 inside (30% RH). The new coils were working a lot better!

PeteTx

[Mr Bill]

Pete, if your still having the problem with the new coil "hopefully not" :confused: I would try adding another duct off the bottom of the main trunk line directly under the unit, maybe 7" or 8" to the kitchen, and make sure I installed a manual damper in the new duct so I could tweak it, if it's an air flow issue this should confirm that. If you then can open up the damper fully and this thing still freezes at night, I doubt air flow is the problem, cheap way to find out if air flow is the problem.

[the dangling wrangler]

wrangler,

Thanks for the best wishes. I did request a refund and he could take everything out. Of course, he did not respond to that voice mail either. The name of the game is service. I write software for large corporations. If I can't make a deadline, I tell them just as soon as I can. If it's my fault, the contract usually calls for a penalty depending on how late and what requirements were not met. If I don't make an agreed deadline and I don't call them within 3 business days, they have the optoin to find someone else and I get nothing. No matter how many hours I put into it. Sure, I miss deadlines. Occassionally my fault. Usually not. But I always keep the bo$$ in the loop. My contracts require a response within 1 business day for requests for warranty support. I don't have to start on it right away, but I have to acknowledge the ticket. Everything depends on communication. I am resonable, just communicate.

TMH58,

Thank you for helping. I have a single wide. One long duct. 5" X 12". I just measured it. I don't know which blower was installed. The installation paperwork for the original coils were rated for 1250 cfm. That's not what I was expecting to see. Do the newer higher SEER systems need the same cfm as a 20 year old system?

I'm starting to think I need to upgrade the duct work to make it larger.

PeteTx

I'm thinkin', the supplier really did tell your man, that the coil they gave him was the correct one.

Since you researched this coil, and now know it's not the correct one, I'm thinking the supplier was stalling the contractor. He should have called but he didn't.
He knew you were mad, nobody likes to get yelled at.
I just don't think the call to the BBB was in good taste.

Why not try and see what the availability of the coil was, before you threw him under the bus.

[Doug Lockhart]

I'm thinkin', the supplier really did tell your man, that the coil they gave him was the correct one.

Since you researched this coil, and now know it's not the correct one, I'm thinking the supplier was stalling the contractor. He should have called but he didn't.
He knew you were mad, nobody likes to get yelled at.
I just don't think the call to the BBB was in good taste.

Why not try and see what the availability of the coil was, before you threw him under the bus.

Guys, it ain't the supplier's job NOR the customer's job to KNOW the product...it's ours.... :eek:
Speaking of rants....:mad:

[Mr Bill]

Wow Doug! the whole world reads here, you could have probably use a little better language, this is not your local dump, this is a highly respected forum that deserves the same from it's posters, being a Professional here don't stop at our a/c skills it's the total person that makes us Professionals, JMO.

[the dangling wrangler]

Guys, it ain't the supplier's job NOR the customer's job to KNOW the product...it's ours....:mad:

You're a real class act there Doug.

[PeteTx]

Thanks again wrangler. The supplier was stalling him as it turns out. For the record, I never raised my voice or got nasty. After 5 days and several calls after the last appointment he missed, I left a voice message on both his business cell and land line to tell him I would go to the BBB if he did not contact me in 48 hours. I said I knew things get out of hand just call me and let me know you are still trying to work it out. I actually waited 4 days. I can't make him be responsible enough to just call. I understand how you wouldn't want others to get any ideas about complaining when they are unhappy and it's not your fault. Remember, I provide services also. All it would have taken was a phone call. If someone refuses to talk to you after 10 days, that's unreasonable.

Mr. Lockhart,
I agree with your message. A reputation for professionalism is earned and it's hard to regain once it's lost. With all of the cons out there slandering the Real Professional, it should be guarded with passion... professionally. 8^)

Mr. Bill,
The air flow from the new coils is much better. We will find out over the next few nights when that dreaded 3:00 AM comes around again. If I have problems again, I'm going to ask another contractor to look at the duct work so we can improve the air flow. Nice icon!

PeteTx

[PeteTx]

I forgot to mention. Immediately after the correct coils were installed, I contacted the BBB and requested to have the complaint withdrawn with nothing to appear in any file. I told them the contractor was not at fault.

I guess we both learned a lesson. He should communicate more often than every 10 days and let someone know if he can't make an appointment. I'm still looking at things again to make sure I didn't contribute to the fire.

PeteTx

[Doug Lockhart]

You're a real class act there Doug.

Y'know guys I have been trying for 33 years to supply top quality product, top quality service and top quality tools for this trade for all of those 33 years. I have come to the conclusion that this PC correct, kissy kiss era is all about optics rather than substance/content. Seems it's OK to lie, cheat and steal in this day and age as long as you prepare the 'proper' press release. D'you think that maybe some of this present economic crisis may have been predicated by this set of principles?

Some of you guys may jump up on your soapbox and wag your finger at me and my 'language and lack of class'. Yer damn straight, I am a foul mouthed, calls 'em as I sees 'em redneck tradesman that no matter how many frames I hang on the wall I am only as good as my reputation and integrity with which my last 33 years of performance built. How I treat people with my level of diligence and honesty goes EVERYWHERE I do and my Mother always taught me sooner or later you get back in double potions what you dish out in life.....

My HVAC/R reputation here is that I can be an a$$hole to deal with but when I walk away from a piece of equipment it's working properly. I have a helluva lot further to go in life to be a nicey nice, sensitive, PC individual but when it comes to honesty and hard work I compromise not!!! I know responsibility is not PC but it really works well with my Maker....even when I cuss while I'm taking painfull, rigorous inventory of my own screwups....and there's lots of 'em...believe me ...... ;)
Have a good weekend....Be honest to yourself.....it'll spread;):)

[the dangling wrangler]

You're full of yourself, and something else too.

You've got pm.

[beenthere]

Doug.

This is a family rated forum.

Post how you feel, in a Family rated manner.

[PeteTx]

SITREP:

Last night was much better. I didn't change any temp settings, but we were very comfortable and able to sleep without perspiring. I guess the humidity was lower because the unit was able to run and not freeze. I don't know how accurate a home weather center is but it has been reading about 30%.

Woo Hoo!

PeteTx