Here's How To Fix The Country, don't agree? then don't survive.

[wolfstrike]

1) Constitutional Limits Must Be Restored
A) We have to stop the "educated" from disrupting the legal system.
* Legal terrorist organizations like the ACLU need to be recognized as criminals, their attempts to "redefine" the Constitution, saying things like "The right to bear arms" means you CAN'T own guns, and other immature agenda need to be reformed.
* We need to stop overturning rights with political sob story laws
* Our current system sends rich kids off to college where their main majors are drugs and sex, then they hand them a piece of paper that declares them an expert and they never use their head again, ...and they're placed into the highest jobs in the land. It's time for the average person to reform the country.
B) Americans have to accept the fact it's not the government's job to fix everyone's problems.
* It's ignorant to create an oppressive society where people are dragged off to jail for talking on a cell phone , this is the opposite of freedom.
C) States must start abiding by the Bill Of Rights.
* Our current society allows states to ignore good laws while being forced by the Feds to accept evil ones.
D) Restore states rights as if they were close to being different countries, end federal dictatorship.
E) The Constitution limits are for government, not the public
F) Recognize Democracy as a system of improvement, not a cover for criminal activity
G) We need to dissolve the Federal Reserve, and reinstate a gold based currency

2) Restore Religious Rights To Their Original Meaning
* American freedom of religion was an eqilibrium where government officials couldn't declare himself the head of religion or force people to join
* In no way shape or form is it legal for government representitives to go around ripping down religious symbols or editing monuments.
* People are not being infringed upon because they hear or see religion, you have the right to walk away

3) Remove Unlawfull Power From The Supreme Court
* We need to remove all the unlawfull power the Supreme Court has grabbed over the years. This is not a judicial dictatorship.
A) The Supreme Court is one of three equal branches of government
* Any Supreme Court decision can be ignored by the Executive Office of the Presidency or ignored/overturned by Congress.
B) The Supreme Court can only use the very limited and simple Constitution to refer to laws.
* It's not the job of the Supreme Court to hammer out thedaily lives of the public

4) The Second Amendment Needs To Be Recognized For I'ts True Definition.
A) The public is the militia, always has been , always will be
B) Guns are for self protection
C) Guns are for armed revolution, don't like it? too bad.
* There is no greater form of power abuse then someone coming to your house to take your gun.

5) Reform The School System.
A) Defund schools, destroy the beaurocracy, reverse that fail cycle.
* It doesn't cost $15,000 per student per year to buy books and have somone teach.
* We're paying for unneeded people to sit around in high paying jobs and have them dictate propaganda.
B) Fact check books.
* we need to make sure the books are only showing facts and not trying to shape people to political views
C) Teachers should only give their opinions in subjects they teach
D) Give teachers back their classrooms
* We need to stop beaucratic failing learning scheedules from being dictated from the top
* Teachers have the right to lead prayer, or not to lead prayer, students have the right to not participate
E) Teachers need to have the right to eject anyone from their class. Restore disipline
* Accept the fact it was no accident disipline has been removed
* Ejected? go to another teacher, ejected? then go to the principal, ejected from the school to to another school, ejected from that school? go to juvi, who needs these people? who cares?
F) Fire teachers who don't perform as a mandatory rule
G) Stop teachers unions from dictating politics.
H) It's imperitive that American history is taught to all students instead of American self hate.
* The country can not go forward when the public is ignorant of the American Revolution.
I) Build increasing penalties for repeat offenders
* and don't allow judges to pervert the system by giving people life sentences for stealing pizza

6) Restore The Legal System
A) Disband the Federal Police
* Federal Police were never legal , the founders didn't even want a standing army.
B) Restore the jury as the final authority
* No government official can do anything to a citizen unless 12 jurors agree to it in a pre-existing law.
C) Stop judges and lawyers from setting illegal rules on jurors. Jurors have a right to hear all evidence and speculation.
D) Strict rules need to be enforced when presenting DNA evidence.
E) dissolve laws that make peacefull people criminals
* Carrying a knife is not a crime, stabbing someone is.
F) Reform The Prison System
* "correctional facility"? what a joke!, out current systems creates criminals
* citizens should not be grouped with convicted criminals during holding
G) Abolish criminal records
* Our current system creates criminals by releasing them, then presenting records to employers so they can't find work
* A person is either dangerous and in jail or not dangerous and out, serving or paid their debt.


7) Restore The Electoral Process And Districting
A) The public to be active at lower levels.
* It's a perversion that everyone is only active once ever four years. the public's job is to fix their area, not wait for a Presidential candidate.
B) The electoral process needs to be restored to it's original purpose, equalizing states
C) Reform districting
* Currently politicians group people into political districts by party and select candidates that are pre-determined to win. This is a perversion of Democracy

8) Recognize Karl Marx As The Greatest Criminal
A) Americans need to be educated about Marx's political blueprints of atrocity
B) Our society needs to be taught about the massacres of the 20th century
C) Outlaw Marxist/Communist organizations in politics
* Our system of Democracy was created for IMPROVEMENTS to society, since these forms of government haven't done anything good, there's no reason to give them free consideration. Want to be a Marxist? OK, but any form of organization is treason to basic liberties and dealt with as such.
D) Stop allowing Marxists to build Communist countries who don't abide by our rules


9) Outlaw some Socialist programs that work like a pyramid scheme.
A) Public money collected for a purpose should be used for that pupose ONLY
B) Outlaw forced donations, people should be given incentives.

10) Destroy The 3% Rule For Charities
* Charities are currently only required to pay 3% of their income to their cause
A) We need to reform and moniter charities so people can be fully active in helping humanity
B) Foundations are for charitable causes, not tax shelters for the rich.
* There's probably enough money floating around to fix America and half the planet

11) Start A War On Drugs
A) Overturn the corrupt "entrapment" law.
* Currently, any citizen can go downtown and buy drugs, but the police can't find them, because the government says they can't ask if they are selling a 100% illegal drug. This is a perversion of the entrapment rule. No citizen should have a 100% illegal item under and circumstance. Entrapment laws were created to stop police from urging people to committ crimes they normally wouldn't. It doesn't apply to illegal drugs.

12) Replace The IRS With A Legal Tax System
* It's unconstitutional to extort money from paycheks
* The government has been using the IRS to harass plitical enemies.
* Sales tax is legal, if you don't want to pay tax, don't buy anything. the poor buy a ton of crap anyways

13) Illegal Immigration Reform Is Crucial
A) Illegal immigration is the largest pre-planned assult on Americanism
B) Make it illegal to hire illegals, push for penalties
C) Illegal Immigration is the largest threat to public safety
* Our current society allows illegals to create their own Social Security numbers

14) Stop Building Disgusting China And Sending Jobs Over Seas
A) Remove tariffs and business tactics used to destroy American business
* In our current society, it's cheaper for China to buy American copper, make something, and ship it back over here for sales than it is for an American coppersmith to buy copper and make something. Your government created this situation through laws.
B) we need to pull the plug on Chinese products for moral reasons.
C) Destroy programs like NAFTA that sends money to foreign nations to build business and ignore our standards
D) Tax imports heavily, rebuild American manufacturing

15) Role Of The Government
A) The role of the government is to make sure the country operates in a Constitutional manner
B) The role of the government is to regulate business, not the public
* Recognize the stock market as gambling and reform the financial practices with high moral standards
C) The role of the government is to protect the citizens from foreign threat.
D) The role of the government is to export our superior Constitutionalism, moralism(which includes Christianity), and urge human rights, to anyone who will listen.
(not McDonald's and weapon technology)

[dec]

butttt butttt buttt ............. who's gonna take care of meeeeee............... :rolleyes:

[DeltaT]

Wow. You been doing some thinking! Good luck with this.

[jpsmith1cm]

What you are trying to accomplish would take nothing short of an armed revolution to achieve.

I think that less than 1% of Americans are mentally prepared to go to war with their neighbors over an abstract concept like freedom.
I do not disagree with you, I am just a bit skeptical of it ever happening. People are too soft.

[iron]

People are too soft.

what does my stomach have to do with this thread?:D

[wolfstrike]

What you are trying to accomplish would take nothing short of an armed revolution to achieve.


the way things are going the average citizen is going to be confronted by some kind of soldier soon anyways, might as well pull the tigger.

[DeltaT]

the way things are going the average citizen is going to be confronted by some kind of soldier soon anyways, might as well pull the tigger.

Just think about that statment. "some kind of soldier" as if it would be a total stranger with no connection to the USA.

Wouldn't that soldier be an American? Wouldn't you think? Would we ever reach the stage where our own troops would turn on us? It did happen once in DC right after WWI, but that was a different story situated on a few hundred civilian who were vets.

I would think that John McCain and all the other vets in Congress would take up arms first to stop any kind of breach of freedom in this country. At least I would hope so.

[desto1]

that is why there are more and more foriegn troops being intergrated along side of our american military.just like during katrina.

[Jack2007]

Just think about that statment. "some kind of soldier" as if it would be a total stranger with no connection to the USA.

Wouldn't that soldier be an American? Wouldn't you think? Would we ever reach the stage where our own troops would turn on us? It did happen once in DC right after WWI, but that was a different story situated on a few hundred civilian who were vets.

I would think that John McCain and all the other vets in Congress would take up arms first to stop any kind of breach of freedom in this country. At least I would hope so.
Maybe Muslims under the UN banner ???

What's Obama really talking about in those Muslim countries ???
.

[jmac00]

Maybe Muslims under the UN banner ???

What's Obama really talking about in those Muslim countries ???
.


you can't spell Unethical without U.N.


If troubles abound, the U.N. will be standing nearby doing nothing:eek:

The U.N. raising pointless squabbling to an art form :eek::mad:

[DeltaT]

Maybe Muslims under the UN banner ???

What's Obama really talking about in those Muslim countries ???
.

Oh crap! I never considered that! There are a ton, to me, of new Muslim chruches being built around here too.

Ya know, reading these posts at any other time in our history I would think you guys were nuts, including me. But in light of todays administration and the seemingly lack of response and lack of control by the two other branches of our Federal Government, I'm starting to wonder.

[hvacrmedic]

[SIZE="5"]

D) The role of the government is to export our superior Constitutionalism, moralism(which includes Christianity), and urge human rights, to anyone who will listen.
(not McDonald's and weapon technology)

Are you suggesting that one of the roles of the government is to export Christianity? Or did you mean just the Christian morals (ethics) and not the religion? Can you list those morals? Member's of the ACLU are probably mostly Christian. Did you mean THOSE Christian ethics, or did you have something else in mind?

At a governor's convention some time ago now, of which Mike Huckabee (A Baptist minister and governor at the time) was in attendance (Southern Baptist Convention) it was ruled in favor of Harry Potter being "of the Devil" and agreed that it should be boycotted by all Christians. Is this the sort of ethic that you think our Government should be exporting, telling the world to boycott Harry Potter movies?

BTW, I did agree with most of your other points. That last one didn't seem to fit though. Maybe you can elaborate on it and change my mind. :)

Also your argument about the ACLU is contradictory to "free speech". When they are given power to pass laws, that will be a different story. Until then, they are entitled to their opinions. It's up to us who don't always agree with them to voice our own opions even louder.

[RoBoTeq]

What you are trying to accomplish would take nothing short of an armed revolution to achieve.

I think that less than 1% of Americans are mentally prepared to go to war with their neighbors over an abstract concept like freedom.
I do not disagree with you, I am just a bit skeptical of it ever happening. People are too soft.
I am afraid enough to be in that 1 percentile, and I believe a lot more are leaning toward it. If even 10 percent took the initiative, the rest would surely follow.

[RoBoTeq]

Just think about that statment. "some kind of soldier" as if it would be a total stranger with no connection to the USA.

Wouldn't that soldier be an American? Wouldn't you think? Would we ever reach the stage where our own troops would turn on us? It did happen once in DC right after WWI, but that was a different story situated on a few hundred civilian who were vets.

I would think that John McCain and all the other vets in Congress would take up arms first to stop any kind of breach of freedom in this country. At least I would hope so.
If a counter coup against the political coup that is going on right now in our government occurs, we could be facing our current leaders taking the masses of money they now have at their disposal to fund the internal army that President Obama talked about in his election speeches, to hire all of those Americans who have lost their jobs.

At that point we would have so many Americans working for the new government as a policing force, that we would essentially be under martial law. This can happen in a very short time with the result of Americans needing to turn on Americans or we give up our country as it has existed before this socialist coup took place.

Yes, the enemy is at our gates, and the enemy is us.

What is happening in the U.S. is very similar to what occured in Germany as the Nazi party took control. Things were so bad that the German people allowed a new order of government to just take over without questioning how it was going to end up.

[glennac]

What is happening in the U.S. is very similar to what occured in Germany as the Nazi party took control. Things were so bad that the German people allowed a new order of government to just take over without questioning how it was going to end up.

Ja, Ja Herr robo.:D:)

[jmac00]

What is happening in the U.S. is very similar to what occured in Germany as the Nazi party took control. Things were so bad that the German people allowed a new order of government to just take over without questioning how it was going to end up.

the Obvious problem is trying to get the sheepeople to realize there rights as free Americans are being eroded on a DAILY BASIS.

Most sheepeople are happy to let the government run there lives. :mad::mad: idiots:mad:

[jpsmith1cm]

Robo, there is a lot of ground between 1% and 10%. I, too, am among the rebellious, but I know a LOT of people who will roll over way too easily.

[hearthman]

[QUOTE=hvacrmedic; Member's of the ACLU are probably mostly Christian.
.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but based upon their frenetic litigation against anything remotely resembling a Christian symbol, I'd have to disagree. They are the ones constantly suing to stop Manger scenes in public and any form of public prayer. No, I do not see one ounce of Christianity in that organization--only evil.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with Wolfy. We can all dream, cause it's going the other direction on a magnetic train from hell back there. Obama is evil incarnate and so are his minions.

[DeltaT]

What is happening in the U.S. is very similar to what occured in Germany as the Nazi party took control. Things were so bad that the German people allowed a new order of government to just take over without questioning how it was going to end up.

Not that I believe movies are reality but they can give an insight into past history. Your statement reminds me of a movie I saw a few years back regarding kids in Germany who were attempting to simply dance during the introduction of the Nazi party.

The movie was pretty distrubing in principal of showing the easiness of the loss of freedoms taken for granted. And the ease at which neighbors will turn against neighbors when attempting to please a form of government of which we now have.

The movie is called Swing Kids.

[hvacrmedic]

Sorry but based upon their frenetic litigation against anything remotely resembling a Christian symbol, I'd have to disagree. They are the ones constantly suing to stop Manger scenes in public and any form of public prayer. No, I do not see one ounce of Christianity in that organization--only evil.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with Wolfy. We can all dream, cause it's going the other direction on a magnetic train from hell back there. Obama is evil incarnate and so are his minions.

Well I don't keep track of the ACLU, you may be right.

[RoBoTeq]

Sorry but based upon their frenetic litigation against anything remotely resembling a Christian symbol, I'd have to disagree. They are the ones constantly suing to stop Manger scenes in public and any form of public prayer. No, I do not see one ounce of Christianity in that organization--only evil.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with Wolfy. We can all dream, cause it's going the other direction on a magnetic train from hell back there. Obama is evil incarnate and so are his minions.
The ACLU was started by a Communist basing the organization on Communistic values. Most of the influential attorneys at the ACLU are liberal Jews who have very little theological value in any religion.

[desto1]

If a counter coup against the political coup that is going on right now in our government occurs, we could be facing our current leaders taking the masses of money they now have at their disposal to fund the internal army that President Obama talked about in his election speeches, to hire all of those Americans who have lost their jobs.

At that point we would have so many Americans working for the new government as a policing force, that we would essentially be under martial law. This can happen in a very short time with the result of Americans needing to turn on Americans or we give up our country as it has existed before this socialist coup took place.

Yes, the enemy is at our gates, and the enemy is us.

What is happening in the U.S. is very similar to what occured in Germany as the Nazi party took control. Things were so bad that the German people allowed a new order of government to just take over without questioning how it was going to end up.robo you are exactly right. i am thrilled people are starting to wake up, i just hope it is noy too late for our country

[RoBoTeq]

Not that I believe movies are reality but they can give an insight into past history. Your statement reminds me of a movie I saw a few years back regarding kids in Germany who were attempting to simply dance during the introduction of the Nazi party.

The movie was pretty distrubing in principal of showing the easiness of the loss of freedoms taken for granted. And the ease at which neighbors will turn against neighbors when attempting to please a form of government of which we now have.

The movie is called Swing Kids.
I think I remember seeing that one. Not my kind of movie, but if I remember correctly, it was well done and seemed believable.

The movie that got to me in my youth was Cabaret. At 18 years old and immersed heavily in the hippie movement, I could see a lot of parallels to how the Nazi's manipulated Germany's youth to how the American Communist parties (People's Worders Party etc.) were manipulating American youth.

[Texas-Tech]

The Revolution IS Coming but will it happen soon enough?:mad:

[glennac]

The Revolution IS Coming but will it happen soon enough?:mad:

Only after we have lost everything will enough folks grow a backbone and fight. It is still a PC world nowadays in the US.:eek:

[RoBoTeq]

Only after we have lost everything will enough folks grow a backbone and fight. It is still a PC world nowadays in the US.:eek:
Unfortunately what causes the desire for a PC world is the fact that there are still so many who believe that particular races of peoples in the world are not equal to others or are specifically the cause of certain problems. Until bigotry and racism are eliminated, PC will always be demanded.

Aside from that, some of you who complain about the world being too PC whine every time you yourself are referred to in a non-PC manner. You for instance get very defensive when you post something that falls directly in line with what the German Nazi movement or the KKK believed in, and someone points out the similarities.

You can't be easily offended and then complain about the world being too PC.

[glennac]

Unfortunately what causes the desire for a PC world is the fact that there are still so many who believe that particular races of peoples in the world are not equal to others or are specifically the cause of certain problems. Until bigotry and racism are eliminated, PC will always be demanded.

Aside from that, some of you who complain about the world being too PC whine every time you yourself are referred to in a non-PC manner. You for instance get very defensive when you post something that falls directly in line with what the German Nazi movement or the KKK believed in, and someone points out the similarities.

You can't be easily offended and then complain about the world being too PC.

There you go again stating stuff about me like you have done about others that are not completely true. First and foremost I judge everyone as an individual regardless of their race or nationality.

I do believe that cultures and races as a whole do differ from each other. That is our problem. You cannot set race "quotas" for jobs, promotions, etc. and expect to get any kind of fairness. What you get is discrimination which you apparently agree with and it is basically against White males. Now if the Nazis and the KKK agree with that concept then I can't help it. That doesn't make me a Nazi or a Klansman because I also believe there are differences.

You use a broad brush to defame those who differ from your views robo and that is not honest and morally correct but it is sure PC. I know that there are individuals of every race who are shall we say are "superior" in intellect and culture to individuals of other races. But races do differ as a whole in IQ and culture from each other and I consider that a fact. You can put a spin on that if you like but I am not PC. Thank you very much.

[coolwhip]

It is a fact Glenn and the science is called Eugenics. It used to be taught in public schools until the liberal wankers went insano. There is a great book called The Bell Curve which is based on 50 years of scientific research by some of the best researchers and scientists in the world about the study of Eugenics and inferior genetics.

The Bell Curve, published in 1994, was written by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray as a work designed to explain, using empirical statistical analysis, the variations in intelligence in American Society, raise some warnings regarding the consequences of this intelligence gap, and propose national social policy with the goal of mitigating the worst of the consequences attributed to this intelligence gap. Many of the assertions put forth and conclusions reached by the authors are very controversial, ranging from the relationships between low measured intelligence and anti-social behavior, to the observed relationship between low African-American test scores (compared to whites and Asians) and genetic factors in intelligence abilities. The book was released and received with a large public response. In the first several months of its release, 400,000 copies of the book were sold around the world. Several thousand reviews and commentaries have been written in the short time since the book's publication.

[hearthman]

I don't believe certain races are predisposed to specific behaviors any more than I believe people can be born 'gay'. I think it all is based upon their upbringing-period. What were the values taught at home, the religion, the mores, schools, friends, and associates? I think Oby-wan is a perfect example. He could have been raised many different ways but he chose to associate with radical people who hate the foundations of America and now he's proving their influence on him. All his current evil policies can be traced directly back to these influences--not his race.

History is full of people who grew up with sound moral values only to be perverted by the influences at college or 'friends'.

What we are up against is not any one race or group per se. It is a war of philosophy and ideals: religious ideologies> good versus evil. The forces of the Left all have a central purpose- the self. The State will take care of the self so you don't have to as long as you comply with their instructions. This creates a society of automatons. These lost souls are happy to sell their souls as long as the State provides what they perceive as their minimum requirements: 3 hots and a cot, big screen tv, and medical care with NO personal responsibility. For that, they are willing to work anywhere, do anything and to heck with personal liberties, religion or freedom. They are against rules and laws. Free love and be happy!

The Right is about liberty, religion as long as it does not hurt others, self responsibility, self determination and the freedom to help others as you choose. The Right understands that when two or more people live in proximity to each other, you must have laws. Otherwise, there will be mayhem, murder and suffering. That's why we have a Constitution, which, btw, Oby-wan stated publicly he denounces.

If one ethnicity is acting in a manner that does not respect the rights of others, tries to take away your rights and wealth, or impose their will on you, then I say that group does not know Jesus Christ. Christian doctrine of helping others is not what liberalism/ progressivism is about. It's about helping others to help themselves so they will be in a better position to help others. There is nothing Christian about trampling on the rights of others or enslaving them.

Oby-wan is a pimp and a pusher. He gets people hooked and uses them. He has the unions signed into the devil's book. He is trying to create as many public servants and public dependants as he can because then he owns them. He loves seeing illegal aliens invading the US because once he's shown he will not only grant them immunity but give them free health care, no taxes and more, why in the world would they vote against him. That's one motive for nominating Sotomayor--to buy off the Latino vote. The liberals have been buying off the Black vote since the 1960s and the whole world knows it. It has nothing to do with whether or not blacks believe one candidate is better for the country over another but which will give blacks more entitlements, more freebies, and thereby enslave them. A few free thinking blacks are seeing this and speaking out against it but they are a drop in the bucket.

I foresee civil unrest and dark, evil times ahead. If a patriot makes an attempt at Oby-wan, he'll use that as an excuse to declare martial law and convert his socialism into a full blown communist coup. That's why he's working as hard and fast as he can to destroy American. The sooner things collapse into anarchy, the sooner he can call out his Brown Shirts and take full control. I do not see any resoluting without armed conflict. He needs to suspend the 1st Amendment so he can get away with anything he wants to. That sets the stage for taking away our guns, which is really the only thing keeping him remotely at bay. Once he has our guns, it's over. It's gonna get ugly.

[DeltaT]

I don't believe certain races are predisposed to specific behaviors any more than I believe people can be born 'gay'. I think it all is based upon their upbringing-period. What were the values taught at home, the religion, the mores, schools, friends, and associates? I think Oby-wan is a perfect example. He could have been raised many different ways but he chose to associate with radical people who hate the foundations of America and now he's proving their influence on him. All his current evil policies can be traced directly back to these influences--not his race.

History is full of people who grew up with sound moral values only to be perverted by the influences at college or 'friends'.

What we are up against is not any one race or group per se. It is a war of philosophy and ideals: religious ideologies> good versus evil. The forces of the Left all have a central purpose- the self. The State will take care of the self so you don't have to as long as you comply with their instructions. This creates a society of automatons. These lost souls are happy to sell their souls as long as the State provides what they perceive as their minimum requirements: 3 hots and a cot, big screen tv, and medical care with NO personal responsibility. For that, they are willing to work anywhere, do anything and to heck with personal liberties, religion or freedom. They are against rules and laws. Free love and be happy!

The Right is about liberty, religion as long as it does not hurt others, self responsibility, self determination and the freedom to help others as you choose. The Right understands that when two or more people live in proximity to each other, you must have laws. Otherwise, there will be mayhem, murder and suffering. That's why we have a Constitution, which, btw, Oby-wan stated publicly he denounces.

If one ethnicity is acting in a manner that does not respect the rights of others, tries to take away your rights and wealth, or impose their will on you, then I say that group does not know Jesus Christ. Christian doctrine of helping others is not what liberalism/ progressivism is about. It's about helping others to help themselves so they will be in a better position to help others. There is nothing Christian about trampling on the rights of others or enslaving them.

Oby-wan is a pimp and a pusher. He gets people hooked and uses them. He has the unions signed into the devil's book. He is trying to create as many public servants and public dependants as he can because then he owns them. He loves seeing illegal aliens invading the US because once he's shown he will not only grant them immunity but give them free health care, no taxes and more, why in the world would they vote against him. That's one motive for nominating Sotomayor--to buy off the Latino vote. The liberals have been buying off the Black vote since the 1960s and the whole world knows it. It has nothing to do with whether or not blacks believe one candidate is better for the country over another but which will give blacks more entitlements, more freebies, and thereby enslave them. A few free thinking blacks are seeing this and speaking out against it but they are a drop in the bucket.

I foresee civil unrest and dark, evil times ahead. If a patriot makes an attempt at Oby-wan, he'll use that as an excuse to declare martial law and convert his socialism into a full blown communist coup. That's why he's working as hard and fast as he can to destroy American. The sooner things collapse into anarchy, the sooner he can call out his Brown Shirts and take full control. I do not see any resoluting without armed conflict. He needs to suspend the 1st Amendment so he can get away with anything he wants to. That sets the stage for taking away our guns, which is really the only thing keeping him remotely at bay. Once he has our guns, it's over. It's gonna get ugly.

Well said and exact!

Soliticing to the laziness in all of us through the appearance of an easy life filled with whatever we desire without dicipline or hard work seems to always be the standard operating procedure for these types of people through out history.

And here we have a master of the trade now put in charge by a generation of voters raised in such an atmosphere. Obama is not really the problem. He is symptom of a deeper problems and that is of the voters that voted him into office.

They are building forces and will return even stronger in the next election.

Now that he sits where he sits dealing with this (if there is anyway to actually deal with this) is going to be a nightmare since his taticts are very, very suttle and there seems to be no elected officials who want to step forward to even talk about where this country is headed.

[RoBoTeq]

It is a fact Glenn and the science is called Eugenics. It used to be taught in public schools until the liberal wankers went insano. There is a great book called The Bell Curve which is based on 50 years of scientific research by some of the best researchers and scientists in the world about the study of Eugenics and inferior genetics.

The Bell Curve, published in 1994, was written by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray as a work designed to explain, using empirical statistical analysis, the variations in intelligence in American Society, raise some warnings regarding the consequences of this intelligence gap, and propose national social policy with the goal of mitigating the worst of the consequences attributed to this intelligence gap. Many of the assertions put forth and conclusions reached by the authors are very controversial, ranging from the relationships between low measured intelligence and anti-social behavior, to the observed relationship between low African-American test scores (compared to whites and Asians) and genetic factors in intelligence abilities. The book was released and received with a large public response. In the first several months of its release, 400,000 copies of the book were sold around the world. Several thousand reviews and commentaries have been written in the short time since the book's publication.
You boys continue to prove out what I post:rolleyes:;
Eugenics is "the study of, or belief in, the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics) defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits......
I stopped the quote before it got into the general racist and bigot commentaries.

Two of the major proponents of eugenics were Dr. Victor Frankenstein and Dr. Josef Mengele, one of whom was a work of fiction, and the other a ....dare I type it? Nazi.

[jmac00]

Congratulations, you guys must work for the United Nations............Bring pointless squabble to an art form:p:rolleyes:

[wolfstrike]

Are you suggesting that one of the roles of the government is to export Christianity? Or did you mean just the Christian morals (ethics) and not the religion? Can you list those morals?

i think Christian organizations should continue their releif efforts and i think they should win funding from the government.



Member's of the ACLU are probably mostly Christian

there are no true Christians who support the ACLU and work there, unless they are a complete moron.
the ACLU disagrees with Christianity.



Harry Potter

i don't blame Christians for being protective over that movie , i thought some scenes were too disturbing for young kids.
i don't think Harry Potter is a guide book for teaching serious witchcraft.
if Christians don't want to expose their kids to the whole Dungeons and Dragons thing, that's their business.

i think role playing stories/games like that are going to a be major part of kids lives and no one will be able to stop it.
...and kids could be doing worse things.



Also your argument about the ACLU is contradictory to "free speech". When they are given power to pass laws, that will be a different story. Until then, they are entitled to their opinions.

the ACLU is not an organization that just voices their opinion.
they organize with "rights groups" and politicians , and use people's legal complaints to disrupt or overturn Constitutional law.

[hvacrmedic]

The ACLU was started by a Communist basing the organization on Communistic values. Most of the influential attorneys at the ACLU are liberal Jews who have very little theological value in any religion.

The founder Roger Nash Baldwin became an opponent to communism, and banned it from the ACLU in 1940.
After spending some time reading up on the history of the ACLU, I wonder what sort of backward country the U.S. might be today had it not been for their influence during the last century.

[RoBoTeq]

The founder Roger Nash Baldwin became an opponent to communism, and banned it from the ACLU in 1940.
After spending some time reading up on the history of the ACLU, I wonder what sort of backward country the U.S. might be today had it not been for their influence during the last century.
Well of course Baldwin opposed Communism when the ACLU was under complete attack by the U.S. government. That doesn't change the fact that Baldwin and his organization were still based on Communism and that it continued to behave extremely Socialist while claiming not to be.

You cannot be so foolish as to think that someone as Communist/Socialist oriented as Baldwin was just changed his complete attitude. Baldwin died with the same ideals he had when he formed the ACLU. The ACLU has done not one thing to change the U.S. from being what it is today other then enhancing the Socialist government that we now have that is destroying the Capitolistic based Democratic Republic the U.S. was originally designed to be.

Here is an example of how Baldwin has fooled the likes of you with his deceptive commentaries;
Do steer away from making it look like a Socialist enterprise. Too many people have already gotten the idea that it is nine-tenths a Socialist movement... We want also to look like patriots (http://hvac-talk.com/wiki/Patriotism) in everything we do. We want to get a good lot of flags, talk a good deal about the Constitution and what our forefathers wanted to make of this country, and to show that we are really the folks that really stand for the spirit of our institutions.
Just 5 years before trying to "steer" the ACLU image away from being a Communist/Socialist organization, 15 full years after the ACLU was started, Baldwin gave this speech;

“I have been to Europe several times, mostly in connection with international radical activities…and have traveled in the United States to areas of conflict over workers rights to strike and organize. My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemployment…Therefore, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself…I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal”.”

Just as the ACLU continues to operate today, Baldwin was full of deceit and downright lies in order to get what he wanted and to achieve his Socialist goals.

[hvacrmedic]

Well of course Baldwin opposed Communism when the ACLU was under complete attack by the U.S. government. That doesn't change the fact that Baldwin and his organization were still based on Communism and that it continued to behave extremely Socialist while claiming not to be.

You cannot be so foolish as to think that someone as Communist/Socialist oriented as Baldwin was just changed his complete attitude. Baldwin died with the same ideals he had when he formed the ACLU. The ACLU has done not one thing to change the U.S. from being what it is today other then enhancing the Socialist government that we now have that is destroying the Capitolistic based Democratic Republic the U.S. was originally designed to be.

Here is an example of how Baldwin has fooled the likes of you with his deceptive commentaries;
Just 5 years before trying to "steer" the ACLU image away from being a Communist/Socialist organization, 15 full years after the ACLU was started, Baldwin gave this speech;

Just as the ACLU continues to operate today, Baldwin was full of deceit and downright lies in order to get what he wanted and to achieve his Socialist goals.

I didn't see anything incriminating in Baldwin's comments there. If you were running an organization to, let's say, free animals from euthensia, running a kill-free animal shelter, and some public figures tried to make you out to be anti-social because you were placing the needs of animals ahead of humans, then you'd probably be pressured to do what you could to alter those misperceptions so that you could continue with what you believed to be the "right thing to do".

No good deed goes unpunished.

[RoBoTeq]

I didn't see anything incriminating in Baldwin's comments there. If you were running an organization to, let's say, free animals from euthensia, running a kill-free animal shelter, and some public figures tried to make you out to be anti-social because you were placing the needs of animals ahead of humans, then you'd probably be pressured to do what you could to alter those misperceptions so that you could continue with what you believed to be the "right thing to do".

No good deed goes unpunished.
I'm just going to consider the source and dismiss your supporting posts for Commnist leaning Socialist organizations.

[hvacrmedic]

I'm just going to consider the source and dismiss your supporting posts for Commnist leaning Socialist organizations.

I'll dismiss your dismissal. You're welcome.

[frostman]

1) Constitutional Limits Must Be Restored
A) We have to stop the "educated" from disrupting the legal system.
* Legal terrorist organizations like the ACLU need to be recognized as criminals, their attempts to "redefine" the Constitution, saying things like "The right to bear arms" means you CAN'T own guns, and other immature agenda need to be reformed.
* We need to stop overturning rights with political sob story laws
* Our current system sends rich kids off to college where their main majors are drugs and sex, then they hand them a piece of paper that declares them an expert and they never use their head again, ...and they're placed into the highest jobs in the land. It's time for the average person to reform the country.
B) Americans have to accept the fact it's not the government's job to fix everyone's problems.
* It's ignorant to create an oppressive society where people are dragged off to jail for talking on a cell phone , this is the opposite of freedom.
C) States must start abiding by the Bill Of Rights.
* Our current society allows states to ignore good laws while being forced by the Feds to accept evil ones.
D) Restore states rights as if they were close to being different countries, end federal dictatorship.
E) The Constitution limits are for government, not the public
F) Recognize Democracy as a system of improvement, not a cover for criminal activity
G) We need to dissolve the Federal Reserve, and reinstate a gold based currency

2) Restore Religious Rights To Their Original Meaning
* American freedom of religion was an eqilibrium where government officials couldn't declare himself the head of religion or force people to join
* In no way shape or form is it legal for government representitives to go around ripping down religious symbols or editing monuments.
* People are not being infringed upon because they hear or see religion, you have the right to walk away

3) Remove Unlawfull Power From The Supreme Court
* We need to remove all the unlawfull power the Supreme Court has grabbed over the years. This is not a judicial dictatorship.
A) The Supreme Court is one of three equal branches of government
* Any Supreme Court decision can be ignored by the Executive Office of the Presidency or ignored/overturned by Congress.
B) The Supreme Court can only use the very limited and simple Constitution to refer to laws.
* It's not the job of the Supreme Court to hammer out thedaily lives of the public

4) The Second Amendment Needs To Be Recognized For I'ts True Definition.
A) The public is the militia, always has been , always will be
B) Guns are for self protection
C) Guns are for armed revolution, don't like it? too bad.
* There is no greater form of power abuse then someone coming to your house to take your gun.

5) Reform The School System.
A) Defund schools, destroy the beaurocracy, reverse that fail cycle.
* It doesn't cost $15,000 per student per year to buy books and have somone teach.
* We're paying for unneeded people to sit around in high paying jobs and have them dictate propaganda.
B) Fact check books.
* we need to make sure the books are only showing facts and not trying to shape people to political views
C) Teachers should only give their opinions in subjects they teach
D) Give teachers back their classrooms
* We need to stop beaucratic failing learning scheedules from being dictated from the top
* Teachers have the right to lead prayer, or not to lead prayer, students have the right to not participate
E) Teachers need to have the right to eject anyone from their class. Restore disipline
* Accept the fact it was no accident disipline has been removed
* Ejected? go to another teacher, ejected? then go to the principal, ejected from the school to to another school, ejected from that school? go to juvi, who needs these people? who cares?
F) Fire teachers who don't perform as a mandatory rule
G) Stop teachers unions from dictating politics.
H) It's imperitive that American history is taught to all students instead of American self hate.
* The country can not go forward when the public is ignorant of the American Revolution.
I) Build increasing penalties for repeat offenders
* and don't allow judges to pervert the system by giving people life sentences for stealing pizza

6) Restore The Legal System
A) Disband the Federal Police
* Federal Police were never legal , the founders didn't even want a standing army.
B) Restore the jury as the final authority
* No government official can do anything to a citizen unless 12 jurors agree to it in a pre-existing law.
C) Stop judges and lawyers from setting illegal rules on jurors. Jurors have a right to hear all evidence and speculation.
D) Strict rules need to be enforced when presenting DNA evidence.
E) dissolve laws that make peacefull people criminals
* Carrying a knife is not a crime, stabbing someone is.
F) Reform The Prison System
* "correctional facility"? what a joke!, out current systems creates criminals
* citizens should not be grouped with convicted criminals during holding
G) Abolish criminal records
* Our current system creates criminals by releasing them, then presenting records to employers so they can't find work
* A person is either dangerous and in jail or not dangerous and out, serving or paid their debt.


7) Restore The Electoral Process And Districting
A) The public to be active at lower levels.
* It's a perversion that everyone is only active once ever four years. the public's job is to fix their area, not wait for a Presidential candidate.
B) The electoral process needs to be restored to it's original purpose, equalizing states
C) Reform districting
* Currently politicians group people into political districts by party and select candidates that are pre-determined to win. This is a perversion of Democracy

8) Recognize Karl Marx As The Greatest Criminal
A) Americans need to be educated about Marx's political blueprints of atrocity
B) Our society needs to be taught about the massacres of the 20th century
C) Outlaw Marxist/Communist organizations in politics
* Our system of Democracy was created for IMPROVEMENTS to society, since these forms of government haven't done anything good, there's no reason to give them free consideration. Want to be a Marxist? OK, but any form of organization is treason to basic liberties and dealt with as such.
D) Stop allowing Marxists to build Communist countries who don't abide by our rules


9) Outlaw some Socialist programs that work like a pyramid scheme.
A) Public money collected for a purpose should be used for that pupose ONLY
B) Outlaw forced donations, people should be given incentives.

10) Destroy The 3% Rule For Charities
* Charities are currently only required to pay 3% of their income to their cause
A) We need to reform and moniter charities so people can be fully active in helping humanity
B) Foundations are for charitable causes, not tax shelters for the rich.
* There's probably enough money floating around to fix America and half the planet

11) Start A War On Drugs
A) Overturn the corrupt "entrapment" law.
* Currently, any citizen can go downtown and buy drugs, but the police can't find them, because the government says they can't ask if they are selling a 100% illegal drug. This is a perversion of the entrapment rule. No citizen should have a 100% illegal item under and circumstance. Entrapment laws were created to stop police from urging people to committ crimes they normally wouldn't. It doesn't apply to illegal drugs.

12) Replace The IRS With A Legal Tax System
* It's unconstitutional to extort money from paycheks
* The government has been using the IRS to harass plitical enemies.
* Sales tax is legal, if you don't want to pay tax, don't buy anything. the poor buy a ton of crap anyways

13) Illegal Immigration Reform Is Crucial
A) Illegal immigration is the largest pre-planned assult on Americanism
B) Make it illegal to hire illegals, push for penalties
C) Illegal Immigration is the largest threat to public safety
* Our current society allows illegals to create their own Social Security numbers

14) Stop Building Disgusting China And Sending Jobs Over Seas
A) Remove tariffs and business tactics used to destroy American business
* In our current society, it's cheaper for China to buy American copper, make something, and ship it back over here for sales than it is for an American coppersmith to buy copper and make something. Your government created this situation through laws.
B) we need to pull the plug on Chinese products for moral reasons.
C) Destroy programs like NAFTA that sends money to foreign nations to build business and ignore our standards
D) Tax imports heavily, rebuild American manufacturing

15) Role Of The Government
A) The role of the government is to make sure the country operates in a Constitutional manner
B) The role of the government is to regulate business, not the public
* Recognize the stock market as gambling and reform the financial practices with high moral standards
C) The role of the government is to protect the citizens from foreign threat.
D) The role of the government is to export our superior Constitutionalism, moralism(which includes Christianity), and urge human rights, to anyone who will listen.
(not McDonald's and weapon technology)

Teachers don't have the right to lead a prayer in public schools, and our founding fathers did want a separation of church and state. If I have to obey the laws and go to court for whatever reason, then I don't need to be walking by some religious monument on my way into court. You stated I have the right to walk away from religion, but it's hard to walk away when the crap is standing in the entrance way of certain PUBLIC buildings. If we're going to allow Christians to put their crap up, then we better have monuments supporting every religion next to it. So yes, the government can remove religious monuments from PUBLIC places, keep your damn religions private. That's what our founding fathers, a lot of whom weren't real religious, wanted. And regulate business?? Are you nuts??? That would destroy capitalism!!!!!! I agree with you on most of your points except the religious ones, I don't need to see religious monumets in public buildings, we have the right to be protected from having religion forced upon us.

[RoBoTeq]

Teachers don't have the right to lead a prayer in public schools, and our founding fathers did want a separation of church and state. If I have to obey the laws and go to court for whatever reason, then I don't need to be walking by some religious monument on my way into court. You stated I have the right to walk away from religion, but it's hard to walk away when the crap is standing in the entrance way of certain PUBLIC buildings. If we're going to allow Christians to put their crap up, then we better have monuments supporting every religion next to it. So yes, the government can remove religious monuments from PUBLIC places, keep your damn religions private. That's what our founding fathers, a lot of whom weren't real religious, wanted. And regulate business?? Are you nuts??? That would destroy capitalism!!!!!! I agree with you on most of your points except the religious ones, I don't need to see religious monumets in public buildings, we have the right to be protected from having religion forced upon us.
First off pal, your language toward things that are Christian is quite offensive. It makes it quite obvious that you have no consideration for others.

There is no reason why religions other then Christian can not have iconry of their faith in public places. We are not a Christian nation, but we are not a heathen nation either. Any and all religions may do what they like, which is what the Constittution allows for with its emphasis on freedom of religion and separation of religion and State.

If you cannot act sociable with persons who have different religious views then you do, then you have the right to stay in your home and not have to deal with others. That is your problem, which can be easily resolved. No one is out to force you to become a believer in any particular faith, so why do you feel you have the right to keep others from expressing their views?

You sir are a hypocrite of the worse kind.

[Hugh B]

Teachers don't have the right to lead a prayer in public schools, and our founding fathers did want a separation of church and state. If I have to obey the laws and go to court for whatever reason, then I don't need to be walking by some religious monument on my way into court. You stated I have the right to walk away from religion, but it's hard to walk away when the crap is standing in the entrance way of certain PUBLIC buildings. If we're going to allow Christians to put their crap up, then we better have monuments supporting every religion next to it. So yes, the government can remove religious monuments from PUBLIC places, keep your damn religions private. That's what our founding fathers, a lot of whom weren't real religious, wanted. And regulate business?? Are you nuts??? That would destroy capitalism!!!!!! I agree with you on most of your points except the religious ones, I don't need to see religious monumets in public buildings, we have the right to be protected from having religion forced upon us.

Actually, it is not possible to NOT promote some religion. You for example Frostman are promoting a religion of your own right now with the post above. That religion is called Secular Humanism and it too is a faith. A faith that says man himself is god and can do best ruling himself without a higher being.

Secular Humanism has an entire set of faith based beliefs none of which can be proven but are taken on faith. That sir is a religion.

[DeltaT]

frostman
The irony is that if you go in any Federal Government building that was built during the time of the formation of this contry you will see in just about every corner or on every wall or engraved in the ceilings, floors and wall items that you would consider religious, I'm sure.

Now on the other hand, the millions of people who have worked in or visited or depend on these buildings and employees who work there look at these items as a corner stone of what this great nation stands for.

You would call it religious and want it banded or removed. Many others have and continue to look at and/or read the inscribed words say, in the Lincoln Memorial or the Jefferson Memmorial, and are thankful for the wisdom and guidance of the people who had the gift of supplying us with such bountiful building blocks of a free nation.

Also ironic is that some of the wording and phrases that have built the nation that gives you the freedom to be short sighted and not shot have come directly out of that, what is the name of that book? -- oh, yes....the Bible.

[hvacrmedic]

Actually, it is not possible to NOT proote some religion. You for example Frostman are promoting a religion of your own right now with the post above. That religion is called Secular Humanism and it too is a faith. A faith that says man himself is god and can do best ruling himself without a higher being.

Secular Humanism has an entire set of faith based beliefs none of which can be proven but are taken on faith. That sir is a religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Humanism

I think your views are a little distorted. Legal definitions differ from common usage definitions.

There is no faith involved when you look at statistics and see the empirical results of some piece of legislation that was passed, or some type of behavior that a group of people exhibits. When a rock is tossed it follows a parabolic path (when wind resistance is neglected.) The theory is testable. If faith were involved in the belief that a rock will take a parabolic path, then all the better, because that would make this "religion" the de facto correct one to subscribe to. Only an idiot would believe that this faith were unfounded when that rock strikes him between the eyes after taking the parabolic path that he had just claimed it wouldn't take.

While I would typically be labeled as a Secular Humanist according to some of my philosophies, I have no affiliation with any Humanist organizations. I prefer to call myself simply "realistic." I'm not "a" this or that, I'm just a human, as are all of you. Adding labels or titles to yourself, or to your system of beliefs, doesn't change your chemistry one iota, it only makes you a fraud in that you are lying to yourself. If you really believed in heaven, then you'd martyr yourselves at the first possible opportunity so as to get there quicker.

And worse, you expect others to be fooled by the charade, and worse yet most others ARE taken in by it, doing the same things themselves, albiet perhaps under a different guise. All of these customs men have created for the sole purpose of manipulation of the environment (which includes people), and this in turn is a direct reflection of their evolutionary programming, to wit, this tendency evolved for the sole purpose that it aids (statistically) in sustaining oneself to and through adulthood, and securing a future for their particular genetic sequence in the form of offspring.

It's a dreary world I paint, devoid of magic, right? But then again maybe its all in the way you look at it. Contrarily, while I don't believe in magic occuring in this universe, to me the very existence of this universe is magic in and of itself, much greater than any of the superstitiously generated magic that most others believe in. When I sit on the back porch and look out at nature, the fact that "I am even able to look at nature" is magical. Can a person believe in God without subcribing to any religion? I say yes, he can. When he sorts through what he sees with an honest eye, then he can discard all of the things that are fictional, manmade, and artificial. When he does this, as it turns out, all that is left that is the truth is nature, period. Literally EVERYTHING else is a lie, a figment of the imagination.

But nature is an awesome spectacle, and I believe that she could not have bootstrapped herself into existence. So where did she come from? I don't know, and that's what separates me from the religions of this world--they claim to know something that they simply cannot know. They are consummate liars, even to themselves.

[RoBoTeq]

hvacmedic, legalism aside, you either believe there is something or you believe there is not. Either way, it is a belief in what is not known and therefore you have "faith" in what you believe. So, technically, if not legalistically, Hugh is correct.

Personally, I think it takes a lot more faith to believe in no intelligent design or some sort of creator. I also personally consider much of what many if not most religiously pious people defend, mysticism.

The fact is that man's ability to think and to rationalize has got man into more trouble then not. Is that not what the Genesis story is basically telling us? Are we not being warned that our ability to think the way we are capable of is more of a curse then a virtue?

I am a firm believer in the sciences. When the sciences prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that something that Biblical theorists have concluded is just not accurate, then it is simply time to re-evaluate our understanding of that particular scripture. Science never disproves scripture. Science only serves to show how man has misunderstood scripture.

As far as science goes though, I must put those who rely strictly on science in the same catagory as those who rely strictly on their pious theoretical views of understanding scripture. Those who rely solely on science as their system of faith too often find out that their understanding of the sciences is also very wrong.

Either way we go in our convictions to believe in scripture or to dispute it, we make grave mistakes based on our inability to be able to control our thought processes. We simply are too smart for our own good, and that is something that scripture addresses while science ignores if not takes advantage of.

[hvacrmedic]

hvacmedic, legalism aside, you either believe there is something or you believe there is not. Either way, it is a belief in what is not known and therefore you have "faith" in what you believe. So, technically, if not legalistically, Hugh is correct.

Personally, I think it takes a lot more faith to believe in no intelligent design or some sort of creator. I also personally consider much of what many if not most religiously pious people defend, mysticism.

The fact is that man's ability to think and to rationalize has got man into more trouble then not. Is that not what the Genesis story is basically telling us? Are we not being warned that our ability to think the way we are capable of is more of a curse then a virtue?

I am a firm believer in the sciences. When the sciences prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that something that Biblical theorists have concluded is just not accurate, then it is simply time to re-evaluate our understanding of that particular scripture. Science never disproves scripture. Science only serves to show how man has misunderstood scripture.

As far as science goes though, I must put those who rely strictly on science in the same catagory as those who rely strictly on their pious theoretical views of understanding scripture. Those who rely solely on science as their system of faith too often find out that their understanding of the sciences is also very wrong.

Either way we go in our convictions to believe in scripture or to dispute it, we make grave mistakes based on our inability to be able to control our thought processes. We simply are too smart for our own good, and that is something that scripture addresses while science ignores if not takes advantage of.

I hardly disagree with any of that, except the parts about scripture. I firmly believe that scripture bears no distinction to any other self help works that have been published, except that some of those works are more sensible and less speculative than those lableled quite arbitrarily as "scripture".

[frostman]

Actually, it is not possible to NOT promote some religion. You for example Frostman are promoting a religion of your own right now with the post above. That religion is called Secular Humanism and it too is a faith. A faith that says man himself is god and can do best ruling himself without a higher being.

Secular Humanism has an entire set of faith based beliefs none of which can be proven but are taken on faith. That sir is a religion.

Actually, I think the entire concept of anything being a God is false..so how is that religious or a faith?

[frostman]

First off pal, your language toward things that are Christian is quite offensive. It makes it quite obvious that you have no consideration for others.

There is no reason why religions other then Christian can not have iconry of their faith in public places. We are not a Christian nation, but we are not a heathen nation either. Any and all religions may do what they like, which is what the Constittution allows for with its emphasis on freedom of religion and separation of religion and State.

If you cannot act sociable with persons who have different religious views then you do, then you have the right to stay in your home and not have to deal with others. That is your problem, which can be easily resolved. No one is out to force you to become a believer in any particular faith, so why do you feel you have the right to keep others from expressing their views?

You sir are a hypocrite of the worse kind.

I feel the same way about all religions, but since most of the people in rhis country have been brainwashed by Christianity, i'm picking on that in this instance. And I shouldn't have to stay in my home in order to avoid religion. And i don't have a problem with churches putting up huge signs or displays or crosses..on THEIR property. Since government buildings are public buildings, religion should be kept out of them. What right do Christians have to express their views by way of displays in public buildings? Isn't that forcing views onto me and everyone else? It's one more example of this need Christians have to push their BS on everybody. And as for any religion being allowed to display their message anywhere they may like, can you guess what would happen if suddenly Islamic or other religious displays started popping up everywhere? The Christian right would scream until they passed out. I have no problem with having faith in a certain religion, i'm glad we have the right to believe in any religion we want to, as well as the right to NOT believe. Those of us who don't believe shouldn't have to be exposed to religion in places that we help support with our tax dollars. Like government buildings. Keep religion where it belongs, in churches and peoples homes.

[RoBoTeq]

Actually, I think the entire concept of anything being a God is false..so how is that religious or a faith?
God is simply a term used for that thing those of us of theological faith refer to what we believe to be a supreme being and creator of the physical realm in which we temporarily exist as mortals. So how can you justify claiming that a concept is false?

I have faith in a thing I refer to as God, and you may have faith that all existance is a happenstance. There is no difference in our having faith as far as the faith part is concerned. If the concept of a Creator is to be deemed false, then the concept of there not being a Creator must also be false.

I gotta tell you, with this line of thinking, we are not going to get very far or learn much:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

I feel the same way about all religions, but since most of the people in rhis country have been brainwashed by Christianity, i'm picking on that in this instance. And I shouldn't have to stay in my home in order to avoid religion. And i don't have a problem with churches putting up huge signs or displays or crosses..on THEIR property. Since government buildings are public buildings, religion should be kept out of them. What right do Christians have to express their views by way of displays in public buildings? Isn't that forcing views onto me and everyone else? It's one more example of this need Christians have to push their BS on everybody. And as for any religion being allowed to display their message anywhere they may like, can you guess what would happen if suddenly Islamic or other religious displays started popping up everywhere? The Christian right would scream until they passed out. I have no problem with having faith in a certain religion, i'm glad we have the right to believe in any religion we want to, as well as the right to NOT believe. Those of us who don't believe shouldn't have to be exposed to religion in places that we help support with our tax dollars. Like government buildings. Keep religion where it belongs, in churches and peoples homes.
All of these problems you are whining about are your problems. How about you deal with your problems by bettering yourself rather then making such a pathetic spectacle of yourself by crying that everything offends you?

Theology is literally everywhere. Even the ateist has a theological belief in that he believes that all other theological though is wrong. Still, we all have beliefs and if we cannot be civil about the beliefs of others, then yes, we need to stay to ourselves.

Your trash talk about Christianity and Christian iconry shows that you believe that you and your ideals should be considered more important then the ideals of anyone else. Too bad. If you can't be socially civil, then you need to isolate yourself so you don't keep getting your sensibilities offended.

I don't like being exposed to all of the homosexual things that I am bombarded with every day, and so I do my best to avoid where these things are displayed. I don't much care for sexually oriented magazines being prominently displayed out in the open where children can be exposed to them and I do avoid spending my money in those places.

If I can avoid the things that offend my sensibilities when they are literally everywhere, you should be sociable enough to be able to do the same.

[frostman]

All of these problems you are whining about are your problems. How about you deal with your problems by bettering yourself rather then making such a pathetic spectacle of yourself by crying that everything offends you?

Theology is literally everywhere. Even the ateist has a theological belief in that he believes that all other theological though is wrong. Still, we all have beliefs and if we cannot be civil about the beliefs of others, then yes, we need to stay to ourselves.

Your trash talk about Christianity and Christian iconry shows that you believe that you and your ideals should be considered more important then the ideals of anyone else. Too bad. If you can't be socially civil, then you need to isolate yourself so you don't keep getting your sensibilities offended.

I don't like being exposed to all of the homosexual things that I am bombarded with every day, and so I do my best to avoid where these things are displayed. I don't much care for sexually oriented magazines being prominently displayed out in the open where children can be exposed to them and I do avoid spending my money in those places.

If I can avoid the things that offend my sensibilities when they are literally everywhere, you should be sociable enough to be able to do the same.

Are their homosexual displays in our government buildings? And no, I don't believe my ideals are more important than anybody else's. Not wanting religious displays in buildings my tax dollars pay for doesn't i'm offended, I just think religious displatys should be kept in homes and churches. It's easy to avoid doing business with companies that display pornography or are supportive of homosexuals, it's a little harder to avoid having to go into government buildings or courthouses if I have an obligation to be there. You seem to be arguing that religious displays should be allowed everywhere, damn the people that believe in full separation of church and state. Why should we be able to complain about religious BS being displayed in buildings we pay for right?

[Some Dude]

Just like a liberal letting the government dictate how you feel towards God.

There should be a clear separation of church and state. i do agree with that.

fyi God is not a liberal, we know this because he doesnt MAKE anyone serve him.

[RoBoTeq]

Are their homosexual displays in our government buildings? And no, I don't believe my ideals are more important than anybody else's. Not wanting religious displays in buildings my tax dollars pay for doesn't i'm offended, I just think religious displatys should be kept in homes and churches. It's easy to avoid doing business with companies that display pornography or are supportive of homosexuals, it's a little harder to avoid having to go into government buildings or courthouses if I have an obligation to be there. You seem to be arguing that religious displays should be allowed everywhere, damn the people that believe in full separation of church and state. Why should we be able to complain about religious BS being displayed in buildings we pay for right?
Maybe I'm confused as to just how petty your whinefest actually is frosty. Just what religious icons are you referring to, and how long have they been in the offensive place?

[chuckdvc]

I came on here to get info and professional advice on my new geothermal debacle and I found this thread. Wow, I like you guys. This makes me have a glimmer of hope for our nation.

[wolfstrike]

welcome.
proceed at your own risk. :)

[glennac]

I came on here to get info and professional advice on my new geothermal debacle and I found this thread. Wow, I like you guys. This makes me have a glimmer of hope for our nation.

Watch out we have commies here too.:D:)

[chuckdvc]

You mean the types that cant be responsible for themselves and want the government to steal from those that can and give it to them? I believe those people are either wanting a free ride or are just do not have the mental capacity to understand the issue.

[lanceonthejob]

Talk about nail'n it right on the head.
How TRUE was this quote from April 2008???

"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

[mrs reb77]

Watch out we have commies here too.:D:)

That's funny! You mention them and one shows up! :D

[lanceonthejob]

"...they cling to guns or religion or antipathy..."

unbelievable.

almost...prophetic???

[mrs reb77]

You're quite amusing. So you believe the Messiah tag?

[lanceonthejob]

Messiah?

What's a messiah?

'still haven't found what you're looking for???

If so, don't bother with the chosen-one - put the Glock down and just look inside yourself.

[mrs reb77]

:confused:

You truly give proof to the statement "men are from Mars".

[jmac00]

:confused:

You truly give proof to the statement "men are from Mars".


It's just him, the rest of us are from the bar down the street :D

[glennac]

It's just him, the rest of us are from the bar down the street :D

I prefer a "Honky Tonk" :D:)

[RoBoTeq]

:confused:

You truly give proof to the statement "men are from Mars".
That's a real insult to Mars.

Looks like after just a few months, even President Obamas supporters are not so comfortable that he has a clue.

[frostman]

Maybe I'm confused as to just how petty your whinefest actually is frosty. Just what religious icons are you referring to, and how long have they been in the offensive place?

I was responding to your statement that religious displays should be allowed anywhere. I don't think they should be allowed in public funded places. Ifr you want to call that whining, so be it.

[frostman]

Just like a liberal letting the government dictate how you feel towards God.

There should be a clear separation of church and state. i do agree with that.

fyi God is not a liberal, we know this because he doesnt MAKE anyone serve him.

No, the people who believe in him do a fine job trying to get everyone to believe the same.

[frostman]

God is simply a term used for that thing those of us of theological faith refer to what we believe to be a supreme being and creator of the physical realm in which we temporarily exist as mortals. So how can you justify claiming that a concept is false?

I have faith in a thing I refer to as God, and you may have faith that all existance is a happenstance. There is no difference in our having faith as far as the faith part is concerned. If the concept of a Creator is to be deemed false, then the concept of there not being a Creator must also be false.

I gotta tell you, with this line of thinking, we are not going to get very far or learn much:rolleyes:

If there is no one Creator, then the theory that there isn't one is also false? Geez, that makes sense.

[RoBoTeq]

I was responding to your statement that religious displays should be allowed anywhere. I don't think they should be allowed in public funded places. Ifr you want to call that whining, so be it.
Why are you avoiding the question frosty? What religious icons are you complaining about? Where on government properties are these icons offending you? What are you whining about?

[RoBoTeq]

No, the people who believe in him do a fine job trying to get everyone to believe the same.
Bull! You are just painting all people of faith with a massively wide brush in order to make your petty complaints seem valid.

[Some Dude]

Frost , im not being a smart butt here, but what happened to make you feel thins way?
I have a friend who feels the same way because he had a bad experience once [ no it wasnt sexual] im just interested.

[RoBoTeq]

If there is no one Creator, then the theory that there isn't one is also false? Geez, that makes sense.
Don't know about that frosty, but your post certainly doesn't:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Frost , im not being a smart butt here, but what happened to make you feel thins way?
I have a friend who feels the same way because he had a bad experience once [ no it wasnt sexual] im just interested.
It's difficult for persons of faith to understand the evils that too many people do in the name of religion, so how can we expect a person who has not found his or her faith to feel?

People who have not found their faith are spiritually lost. They don't have an internal anchor and so they cannot focus within themselves. Then, they must be exposed to persons who profess themselves to be persons of faith who behave in ways that are very much in defiance of God's will. How are they supposed to feel?

Those of us of faith understand that none of us are perfect and that all of us are prone to do wrong. The difference is that we have that internal anchor to keep us from becoming lost and losing what we are inside our shells of bodies, our spiritual selves.

No matter how difficult it is or how offensive those who attack us because of our faith, we must not allow ourselves to feel contempt for those who lack in faith, but rather hope and pray that they can find their faith.