Carrier Proposal

[M&B]

Live in the upstate of So. Carolina. Around Clemson
Home is around 2,200 Sq. Ft.
Insulation and ducks OK.
Can not find this system on AHRI site. (going to put in another return)
Old AC is 3.5 tons

Infinity 25HNA636A3
Coils CNPVP4824ATA
Furnace 58MVB040-14-1

Help finding SEER - HSPF - EER

Do Ya'll think this is a good system.

Thanks

[RyanHughes]

11.5 EER, 8.6 HSPF, 15.5 SEER. I did not find this on AHRI either--had to look at Carrier's performance data table. Carrier makes a nice system. Hopefully you're getting the Infinity controller. Given the efficiency of the furnace, you'll qualify for the tax credit (30% up to $1500).

[M&B]

Thanks Ryan,

Yes I am getting the Infinity controller.

I thought I read one time that you had said something about the small furnance - is it too small.

[RyanHughes]

Furnace sizing is determined by calculating your home's heat loss. You can ask your dealer about this and how he arrived at the sizing. That's a 40k furnace only but it can deliver the airflow needed for the 3 ton unit (-14 = 1400 cfm). I'm not sure why it isn't listed on AHRI.

[M&B]

Thanks Ryan - now I know what the 14 means - I did see 14s' and 20s' = 2000

[M&B]

Ryan or anybody

Would a 58MVC 60 -14 change any of my ratings.

Thanks

[mike_home]

Infinity 25HNA636A3
Coils CNPVP4824ATA
Furnace 58MVB040-14-1


The 58MVB040-14 is a 17 inch wide furnace, but the CNPVP4824 is a 24 inch wide coil. Why is the contractor proposing this? I have a CNPVP4821 (21 inch wide) on top of one of my 58MVC60-14 (17 inch) furnaces. The contractor made a transition duct between the two. You could also use the CNPVP3617 coil which is 17 inches wide and requires no transition (I have this set up also).

[RyanHughes]

Mike,
The 040-14 is 24" wide, and the 060-14 is 17" wide. No issue with coil width here.

M&B,
25HNA636A30
CNPVP3617ATA
58MVC060-14
11.5 EER, 15 SEER, 8.4 HSPF

It does qualify for the tax credit because the furnace is 95% AFUE (as long as its in the upflow position which I assume it is).

[M&B]

Thanks Mike,

I do not know yet and as you can see Rayn did not say anything about the width. You are saying the coil is wider than the furnance.

[M&B]

Is there a better coil that will not lower my ratings and fit?

Thanks

[RyanHughes]

Is there a better coil that will not lower my ratings and fit?

Thanks

For which setup? For the setup I listed with the 58MVC060, 17" is the width you want to be flush with the furnace, so that is the best coil option. For the 58MVB040, 24" is the width you want and so I believe they quoted you the best coil (4 ton) there.

[M&B]

Ok, I am a little slow - been looking at a lot of #'s. I see the coil # now.

Thanks Ryan

[RyanHughes]

Since you have a heat pump for primary heat source, really no need for the 3 heating stages of the 58MVC. The 58MVB should be more than sufficient with 2 stages.

[M&B]

Ryan, I agree but he said the distributors around here do not carry the B anymore. It looks like I am loosing efficiency. I would think an efficient heat pump is more important than the furnace.

[RyanHughes]

Losing 0.2 HSPF really isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Same thing for losing 0.5 SEER.

However, I agree that for such a high end system, 11.5 EER, 15 SEER, and 8.4 HSPF are mediocre at best. I substituted the 25HNA936 in the database, and the difference wasn't much either. Using a third-party ADP coil will likely get you better performance ratings, but I've heard these are only computer simulated efficiencies with the ADP coils.

[M&B]

Sorry I can not tell you the cost different (I do know) but it was 10% more than the whole system.

[M&B]

Ryan,

He offered me the 58MVC at the same price. He still wanted to use the CNPV4824 with the transition I guess to keep the ratings up. I told him about the CNPVP3617 and left it up to him. What do you think about all of this.

Thanks

[RyanHughes]

With a 17" furnace, I'd prefer the 3617 coil with a minor hit on efficiency. In my opinion, the smaller coil will be better for low stage operation.

[M&B]

Ryan,

Also, he thinks the 58MVC comes in 40,000 BTU's - The Carrier site says 60,000 is the least they make. And, will a by-pass humidifier (no fan) work on a heat pump.

Thanks

[Special Ed]

11.5 EER, 8.6 HSPF, 15.5 SEER. I did not find this on AHRI either--had to look at Carrier's performance data table. Carrier makes a nice system. Hopefully you're getting the Infinity controller. Given the efficiency of the furnace, you'll qualify for the tax credit (30% up to $1500).

Interesting that this set-up hasn't been independently rated by AHRI. Don't know if I would take Carrier's word for it.

[M&B]

Ryan told me where he got the first ratings and I did not ask about the second ones. Did he get them from the Carrier site.

[M&B]

Does a Carrier 58 MVC come in 40,000 BTU's.

Will a by-pass humidfier (no fan) work on a heat pump.

Not HVAC question but can an extended labor warranty or part of on a split system be used for the 30% tax credit.

Thanks

[RyanHughes]

Does a Carrier 58 MVC come in 40,000 BTU's.

Will a by-pass humidfier (no fan) work on a heat pump.

Not HVAC question but can an extended labor warranty or part of on a split system be used for the 30% tax credit.

Thanks

The 58MVC is a 3-stage, so 60k is (understandably) the smallest size.

The way the tax credit seems to be working, if the extended labor warranty is factored into the total system cost, yes. That's the way people seem to be using the tax credit--total system cost installed.

Not sure about the humidifier question.

[M&B]

OK - the installer ordered and receive the CNPV 4824 - 7" wider than the furnance.

Are there issues I will have.

What should I look for during installation

I did mention the 3617

Thanks

[RyanHughes]

Did they go with the 58MVC060, and not realize that the 58MVC060 was not the same width as the originally quoted 58MVB040? I personally would have them use the 3617 coil which is the same width as the furnace. The 4824 is not an acceptable match (per the AHRI database of listed matchups) to use with that furnace, so they'll have to either use the 3617 or 4821 with a sheetmetal transition.

[M&B]

I do not think that Carrier is making the 58MVB anymore. So, yes I am getting the 58MVC. I have e-mailed them about the 4821 and the 3717. One time you said you found SEER ect. for the original set-up on the Carrier site but that was with the 24" wide unit. Just curious - are you saying this set-up with the 4824 will not work or will not work well or I will have trouble or the efficiency will not be able to be determined.

Thanks

[RyanHughes]

I don't see the 060 size furnace listed with the 25HNA636 and CNPVP4824, so can't determine how well it will perform or efficiency. You want to have a coil that is an approved, rated match. The 3617 or 4821 are the coils to use with this setup, and are the coils listed in the AHRI database for the setup. The 4821 gives better performance (15.5 SEER, 11.9 EER, 8.6 HSPF) and can be used with a proper sheetmetal transition from the furnace.

It was probably an oversight and simple mistake. They substituted the furnace for the 58MVC060 and left the 4824 coil which is the width of the previously quoted 58MVB040.

[M&B]

Thanks Ryan for all your help and information.

M&B

[M&B]

Ryan,

Thanks - we may not know what would have happened without your input but when the installers and owner got here this morning I told him about the 4821 and he sent someone 50 miles oneway to get the 4821. I am not sure the installer could have done a transistion on the 4824. I know you saved time. I am more pleased with my ratings with the 4821. If you ever need your gutters cleaned out or your grass cut, I am willing to drive 700 - 800 miles to do it. I am going to Maryland in August anyway.

Thanks

[dash]

Nice job Ryan!

[RyanHughes]

Glad I could help out and hope the installation went well. Enjoy the nice new system. I'm in MD not far from DC.

[schlar01]

Hi, I'm in the market for a new furnace and came across this thread. I just got a proposal for the same furnace..........can anyone recommend? I'm looking at this Carrier unit or an Amana AMV9070. The Carrier seems to be a higher end model and a hair more expensive, but that isn't really an issue. Basically, I'm looking to dump a 19 year old TempStar that I haven't had any problems with before it dies in the middle of winter (Wisconsin).

Thanks!

[M&B]

I have had my system installed for 5 days. I got more than a furnance - I got a heat pump also. The heat pump is great. Gas co. said the instalation was good and so did the city building inspector. If you are only getting a furnace I can not help you because it will be 4 or 5 months before I use my furance. You read my complete system so you know what I have. I am heating and cooling about 2200 sq. ft. on the main foor an about 1000 sq. ft. in the basement on limited duck work. I am cool and confortable and it has been in the 90 's. Temperture stays where it is set. Humidity control is great.