Which is Better: split system vs. packaged system?

[kareny]

Hi, I am a newbie in this. My 22 year-old HVAC is not working right now, the motor fan is broken. I need to replace it with a new system. Should I get the split system or the same system I have right now (packaged system)? The heat-pump specialist suggests of getting the same type of system as before because it occupies less space and it's cheaper, is that true? I have a approx. 750 sq. ft. condo with a balcony for the split system if I need to. I want something that's quiet and will last longer.

[motoguy128]

Does this "packaged" system have ductwork that runs through the wall? or is the whole unit mounted inside the wall? It sounds like you have a PTAC... like in most hotels.

A split system will require you have ductwork and a air handler installed inside your home. This may not even be possible depending on your condo layout. At minimum you'll need acccess to the attic or crawlspace above your unit and may need to sacrifice a closet.

A good split system will be quieter and more comfortable since it supplies air to all rooms more equally. I'm not sure it will last any longer.

What are traditonally called packaged units, usually have ductwork in the home. In that case you've only saved the space of having a indoor unit.

Where is this unit located now and how it it installed? Pictures? model number?

[kareny]

I do have ductworks that run through the wall and the unit now resides in my bedroom, that's why I want something more quieter and saves $$$

[motoguy128]

I do have ductworks that run through the wall and the unit now resides in my bedroom, that's why I want something more quieter and saves $$$

Your packged unit is inside your bedroom??? I'm a little confused. A split system or package system still need to have at least the outdoor coil and compressor located outdoors, unless it's a air-to-water unit which utilizes a central cooling tower or some sort.

Perhaps one of the pro's on here better understands what you have. I'm a little confused.


Either way, it won't be feasible to relocte the air handler, so it will still be located in htesame space, but the compressor will be outdoors, so that should make it quieter. A vairable speed air handler will use less energy, be quieter and can be set-up to increase humidity removal. But it depends how much you want to spend.

You may also be able to add some sound proofing insulation to the closet to make it quieter when running.

[beenthere]

You probably have what is often refered to as a Magicpak.

You will have to see if your condo association even permits condensers to be installed on the patios.

[mb20fan]

I`ll bet it`s a armstrong thru the wall unit. These are about as bad as it get`s.Does it have 1 door on the lower part of it where the filter goes.And right behind the filter is the evap-coil.The top of it has a little door on the right side to get to the burners and inducer motor.

[beenthere]

I`ll bet it`s a armstrong thru the wall unit. These are about as bad as it get`s.Does it have 1 door on the lower part of it where the filter goes.And right behind the filter is the evap-coil.The top of it has a little door on the right side to get to the burners and inducer motor.
If its not an eletric/electric unit. :)

[mb20fan]

I,V only seen natural gas with small a/c unit in the bottom almost a window unit in it.I took one out of a apartment once and used it to heat and cool my pole barn.I worked great.They have duct work coming off the top I was able to run a trunk line the lenth of barn.With a central return.

[beenthere]

They make them in both.

[mb20fan]

O,h the electric one`s are not common around here good thing they are ****y to work on.if you have ever had to try to get a inducer motor out of one that is old and never been removed pack a lunch.You have to change a sails switch that is screwed to the inducer.Or bees nests get into the motor what a *****. hate them damn units

[beenthere]

Yep. They can be fun. :D

[mb20fan]

just for that reason if i could and the complex would let me i would go with the split system anyday

[motoguy128]

So are these the units I see on large apartment or some hotels that have a large grill that's flush mounted on a outside wall? Sort of a cross between a PTAC and traditonal PKG unit???

[mb20fan]

yes that`s them they use them in almost every apartment complex,s hotel motel,s.When they are working right they are not to bad.the old ones that had clam shell heat exchangers every one I ever worked on had cracked exchangers or rust holes in them.They all have tubular exchangers now.

[beenthere]

Well, if its about 44" high and 28" wide.
Good chance its a Magic Pac.

A PTAC, is a PTAC.

A magic Pac is a packaged unit. Just its made more in a vertical configuration. For thru the wall installation.
And currently exempt for the 13 SEER min.

[mb20fan]

Yes they could not fit a coil in that unit to make it a 13,14,16 seer.The 1 nice thing about the A/C part you can remove 6 screws unplug the mollor plug.Then the whole A/C unit will pull out and be removed from the cabinet for service.

[Some Dude]

Sounds like a perfect place for a mini split.

[beenthere]

Sounds like a perfect place for a mini split.
That would be.
3 cassettes for of the bedrooms(1 for each bedroom).
1 for the living room and dining room.
1 for the kitchen.
And 1 for the bathroom.

[mb20fan]

Mini split kind of sort of the one`s around here when we were allowed to we put a new 80% lennox and hooked up to the duct work that is allready there and put the condenser out side on the ground under it.If not just sell them the same thing we took out.The new one`s are a lot better now anyway.Mini split is going to run the labor cost up way to much.As bad as the economy is here you could never sell the job.

[Some Dude]

I think they left.

[kareny]

I`ll bet it`s a armstrong thru the wall unit. These are about as bad as it get`s.Does it have 1 door on the lower part of it where the filter goes.And right behind the filter is the evap-coil.The top of it has a little door on the right side to get to the burners and inducer motor.


Like I said before, I'm a newbie in this. But I think this is what I have in my bedroom. Let me explain a little bit how it's located, my bedroom has a sliding door to the balcony, so it resides on the same side as the opening to the balcony.

[mb20fan]

if you live in a apartment it most likely is one of these things.where`s the filter on yours

[kareny]

the filter is kind of inside the packaged system. I think it's located in the lower part of the system. Hope that helps to understand what kind of a system I have

[beenthere]

Can you post the model number.
If its one of the type we're thinking it is. You be able to find it easily.

[kareny]

The service agent wrote down this model number of my system on the invoice, Carrier 50QT224300, I hope this will clarify what type of system I have right now. Do they still make systems like this? Mine, like I said, is over 23 years old.

[beenthere]

Its obsoleted.

Not sure they make an exact replacement.

[mb20fan]

not sure about the carrier number that`s not what i was thinking abouti don`t think they made a all in 1 unit.

[beenthere]

They had a couple all in ones just like Armsrong.

[micdundee]

yes, carrier did do that . i hate those things. a golified window unit. if you don't have two, to pull it out, you spill condsat. all over the floor. you need little bitty hands to do almost anything to them. as i know of there's not a replacement unit on the market is there?

[beenthere]

Not an exact.

[kareny]

Gathering all your information out there, so probably the best thing is to change it into the split system then, right?

[mb20fan]

Well if the complex will let you put a condenser outside on there lawn.If not you should just the same thing in it`s place.The newer one`s of those are not that bad.

[beenthere]

Find out what they will allow you to do first.
Then get estimates both ways.

[mb20fan]

Keep in mind if you don`t have a A/C unit outside on the ground somewhere now.The labor is going to be somewhat higher so are the part`s.If you do the split system your going to need to be able to run a lineset out there and a 220 volt dissconnect to power the unit outside.So now you need another contractor to run that line.Here in Mi hvac co,s can`t do it unless they have a electriction on staff. Just to let you know in case you have not thought this threw all the way.

[kareny]

The condenser actually will sit on the balcony, not on the lawn because I live on the 5th floor. I'm actually getting different opinions about the quotes on split system vs. packaged system. The hvac service agent suggests getting the same system (packaged) since it's cheaper and occupied less space and time for the installation. However, my condo manager suggests having a split system because only one company makes that size for the packaged system and it's hard to get if fixed or serviced if problems arise. The manager has also showed me where other units have switched over to the split system in the complex. I will include the picture below to show the difference between the current system I have right now and how the split system will look.

[beenthere]

If the condo manager has no problem with condensers on the balacony. go for it.

[kareny]

Is it true that not a lot of companies make this model 50QT anymore? Is the split system more problem-free but more expensive than the packaged system?

[mb20fan]

I,m not sure about that one in the picture.That`s not what the one I was thinking about look`s like.The Armstrong unit`s I was thinking about can be bought brand new all day long.If you are going to do the split system your going to want something that`s quiet. I know the higher end Lennox unit`s are so quiet you won`t know it`s running unless you look inside to see fan turning.

[kareny]

My condo manager gave me the number to the guy who installs most of the split sytem here in the building and he uses Payne PH-13. What do you think about this? How is it compared to the Carrier's models? Is it true that Payne PH-13 is more compact in size, so it saves more space compared to Carrier. The compressor you see in the picture is the Payne PH-13.

[mb20fan]

Payne is made by carrier just like bryant it`s the same thing.I think the only difference is the warrenty on part`s.not sure about the size of it. I put a payne unit it for father in law 3 yrs ago it`s has never failed it`s not to loud.It`s just a lower price than carrier it may have a few less bell`s and whistle`s.

[kareny]

But I don't think that qualifies for tax credit because I want a better model that can also save me $$ as well. What do you think about the Carrier Performance 38QRR? I think that definitely will save me $1500 tax credit plus it's compact for my limited space.

[kareny]

BTW, the person that's trying to sell me the Payne unit mentions the higher the SEER rating, the bigger the size, is that true?

[beenthere]

Physical size does increase with the SEER.

[mb20fan]

ditto what been said.you need to see what size you need to get the rebate`s then find a contractor you like.I would find my own contractor we got cought up in a deal like this.The office lady was telling the tennents call this person.That person was a family member of hers and they were doing crap work.And if the tennent complained it was hell for them.We only had to go repair the mess.And what a mess it was I`m not saying that`s what is going on at your place.