new electric furnace

[Didi942]

Hi

I'm buying a new electric furnace and wanted your opinion on
multi speed ecm motor vs psc motor furnace

Will the ecm save me some cost in electricity and is it easy to instal? Is there any potentail problems we could run into with a ecm motor furnace?
We plan on redoing the ductwork also

Thanks for any help

[ACFIXR]

Hi

I'm buying a new electric furnace and wanted your opinion on
multi speed ecm motor vs psc motor furnace

Will the ecm save me some cost in electricity and is it easy to instal? Is there any potentail problems we could run into with a ecm motor furnace?
We plan on redoing the ductwork also

Thanks for any help
Your kidding right?
your having a large toaster installed and your trying to save money wirh an ecm motor?:confused:
Why not a heat pump:)?

[Didi942]

I don't know anything about heat pumps.

I'm talking about blower fan motor in an electric furnace.

[drsmith012]

with out a heap pump the decision between an ECM or psc in an electric furnace is a mute point. Are you going to have AC?

[Didi942]

No A/C maybe later some day
Using for heat only. Really cold up north where I live

Only using electric for everything. I still don't know what a heat pump is used in or what it does. Can u explain please?

[Didi942]

As I understand it a heat pump runs on electricity too and u still have to have another source of heat like an exsisting furnace when the heat pump doesn't produce enough heat so that's more electricity use, it has to be set up outside and there's more maintenance.

This is too complicated for me. I don't know what to purchase now even more.

[amd]

A heatpump is essentially an a/c which is capable of taking heat from the outdoor air and dumping it indoors. (A/C takes heat from inside and dumps it outdoors)

They move heat via the refridgeration cycle using a compressor and two fans (Read up on the refridgeration cycle) For every unit of electricity consumed, a modern unit can deliver three units worth of heat at 32F/0C, dramatically reducing energy costs. In cooling mode heatpumps work the same way as a/c units.

The only problem is that heat output declines as the outdoor temperature drops and the supply air tends to be cool to begin with. In cooler climates, a heatpump sized for a/c will by able to carry the heating load down to 25-40F. The exact temperature at which heat output matches heat loss is called the balance point. Below the balance point, a secondary heat source is required - either electric elements or a fossil fuel fired furnace. Electric elements are better in the sense that the HP can be used well below the balanced point; when a furnace is used, the HP has to shut off entirely.

Note: At around 10F-15F most air source heatpumps have to be shutdown to prevent damage.

In a cold climate, an air source HP may save you 20-30% over a conventional electric furnace. If natural gas is available, electricity is dirt cheap, or you don't really need a/c, you'll probably be better off with a conventional system

------------------------------------------------
In response to your first question question: ECM blower motors don't save any money when the primary source of heat is electricity. (Energy consumed by blower gets converted into heat anyway)

[amd]

As I understand it a heat pump runs on electricity too

->Yes, but at much higher level efficiency than heat strips

and u still have to have another source of heat like an exsisting furnace when the heat pump doesn't produce enough heat so that's more electricity use,

->The second source of heat can be a fossil fuel fired furnace or electric elements. If it's electricity, the heat strips only fill the gap between what the HP supplies and what's needed.

it has to be set up outside and there's more maintenance.


->The additional maintenance involves keeping the outdoor coil clean. (Not difficult)
Yes, there are more parts to fail and the initial cost is much higher; however if the choice is between a heatpump and a/c with electric heat, going for the HP is a no-brainer. Where a/c isn't required, there may not be a good return on investment in cold climates.

This is too complicated for me. I don't know what to purchase now even more.


.................

[beenthere]

A heat pump will cost less to use for heat. Then just the electric heaters.

Call local contractors and get estimates.

[motoguy128]

As I understand it a heat pump runs on electricity too and u still have to have another source of heat like an exsisting furnace when the heat pump doesn't produce enough heat so that's more electricity use, it has to be set up outside and there's more maintenance.

This is too complicated for me. I don't know what to purchase now even more.


Can you give some more infomation about your home (size, type, age) and where you live.

Just curious... but why don't you have any natural gas or propane? Very unusual in a northern state not to have a gas furnace if you have central ductwork system installed.

As others have mentioned, getting a high efficiency blower is pointless, if you're using a low efficiency heat source.

A heat pump is the same as a normal air conditioner but it can run in reverse. Instead of cooling the air indoors (A/C) and blowing warm air outdoors, it cools the outdoor air and heats the indoor air. Because it's not "generating" heat"but rather moving it from one place ot another, it can do this using much less electricity, than just using electric heating coils (like in a toaster).

I have a brother-in-law that was living in a 1300sq-ft duplex in Missouri. He had an electric furnace. In Jan. this year his electric bill was $600!!! And he didn't keep it that warm. With a eat pump, it would have been closer to $350-400.


However, the cost of installinga heat pump vs. a straight electric system is VERY substantial. It would likely almost triple the installed system cost (with existing ductwork). BUT... it woudl still pay for itself in I'd estimate about 5 years. Less if you consider you're getting A/C as well. Electric furnaces made sense by themselves in the 1970's and early 80's when heat pumps weren't as efficinet and electricity was very cheap.

It the cost is an issue, and you qualify as lower income, there are loan programs through many utilities and states to help with the costs.

[Some Dude]

I think i talk to this guy 3 times year, i mean i used to. Now i just dont answer his calls. Why do they ask us what our opinion is and then insist we are wrong.
What do you do for a leaving or have over 2o years of experience in ? Just qurious so i could tell you you dont know what you are talking about.
Dont ask a question you dont want an answer to.

[Didi942]

Ok thanks everyone for explaining the heat pum,p system.

I get it now and see your point. The installation cost is an issue for us.
The electric furnace alone (new) is quite cheap for instant heat and I pay later in the long run with my hydro bills (monthly equal billing) is easier for us.

Living in Ontario in a 1200 sq ft home, the furnace works quite well and our cost isn't that bad compared to what other people are paying for gas.

I probably will just get the furnace for now cause we need a new one anyway and get the heat pump installed maybe next year. I don't know of any programs for assistance here, but I will check it out.

Thanks for your help

[joatmon123]

Ok thanks everyone for explaining the heat pum,p system.

I get it now and see your point. The installation cost is an issue for us.
The electric furnace alone (new) is quite cheap for instant heat and I pay later in the long run with my hydro bills (monthly equal billing) is easier for us.

Living in Ontario in a 1200 sq ft home, the furnace works quite well and our cost isn't that bad compared to what other people are paying for gas.

I probably will just get the furnace for now cause we need a new one anyway and get the heat pump installed maybe next year. I don't know of any programs for assistance here, but I will check it out.

Thanks for your help

I think you are making a poor choice by NOT installing a heat pump. I live in Ontario too, similar sized house with a heat pump and electric furnace. You are very wrong if you think our delivered electric rate is comparable to the natural gas rates! It's not even close...

Stop looking at things from an installation cost and view it from a total cost of ownership.

At least do yourself the favour of finding a contractor that has enough know how that can show you what the 10 yr amortized cost is for both systems. The operating cost savings of a heat pump system should easily be able to carry the loan payments if you have to go that route. What's the difference in the end? Your paying equal billing anyways, you might as well get a better system and FREE A/C.

My house used 6,400 kwh of electricity for heating this past winter. That compares to 16,000 kwh if I had used my electric furnace only. In dollar terms, it is $896 vs $2240. Or $75/month vs $187/month.
Savings of $1344 / year, over 10 yrs.... $13,400 How the hell can you justify NOT installing one???? I don't get it!???!

[motoguy128]

Ok thanks everyone for explaining the heat pum,p system.

I get it now and see your point. The installation cost is an issue for us.
The electric furnace alone (new) is quite cheap for instant heat and I pay later in the long run with my hydro bills (monthly equal billing) is easier for us.

Living in Ontario in a 1200 sq ft home, the furnace works quite well and our cost isn't that bad compared to what other people are paying for gas.

I probably will just get the furnace for now cause we need a new one anyway and get the heat pump installed maybe next year. I don't know of any programs for assistance here, but I will check it out.

Thanks for your help

to be fair, living in Ontario, the average COP fro your system will be closer to 2... than 3, so the savings will be less thana system installed further south on the West coast. Heat pumps are less effecienct the colder the outside temeprature.

I would have you contractor at least quote both the electric furnace only and a heat pump and have them install the furnace with an extra 24" section of plenum so a coil can be added in the future. Maybe that will spread out the costs enough to do both.

I would recommend if you able to and have good credit, to take a loan to install the heat pump. The cost of the interest in the loan will be less than what you save on your bills and the added comfort will be worth it. As mentioned above, the energy savings, even in your smaller home, will pay for at least a part of the loan payments. But I'd have a contractor run some numbers for you.

If you have some equity in your home, this is a good use since it will add value ot your home and add comfort on the hotest july and august weather.

[amd]

If you can't afford the heatpump get an air handler with a coil heat strips installed for later use. Just make sure that the outdoor unit installed is an approved match with the indoor coil.

Also check out http://www.gotohallowell.com/ (cold climate heathpump)