Extremely disappointed in Carrier! Hard to believe!

[jojogeorgina]

:mad:
You helped me pick it out. Installed 6 weeks ago:
25HPA536H003
58cva090-1-16
csphp3612A1A.
This is a 2 zone system controled with Infinity zoning.

Fault 72, temperature cutout. Right after installation, when the 2nd stage kicked in the unit would stop with the message. It would operate on the low compressor setting however.

Last week when I arrived home the unit was off with Fault 82, temperature timeout 4 hour, and would not operate at all.

HVAC technician arrives at the house and doesnt know what to do. Called local Carrier guy who didnt know and provided Carrier support number. He called Carrier support and had to answer 20 questions before they switched him to the "technical" guy. This technical guy had NO CLUE what was wrong and said that they would "elevate" the problem to someone (presumably) technically higher....who MIGHT CALL BACK TODAY!!!!

This was about 5PM EDST. Can Carrier be closed? Don't they sell units in California where it's 2PM? How can the company operate like that??

While waiting for the hopefull call that never came, he checked the continuity across the compressor and guess what. The compressor is toast!
Are other companies this dis-reputable. I almost bought a Trane.

[ChuckHVAC]

Don't lose faith. You made a good purchase. Call volume is high for tech support at the start of the cooling season, staff is short also, add to that the holiday, the best and most experienced tech support people get the days they want off. I bet things will turn out fine in the end. They are not disreputable, just human.

[jojogeorgina]

What percentage of compressors from Carrier burn up in 30 days?

[RyanHughes]

Carrier uses the same compressor most other brands use. Will Carrier replace the unit since it's so new or just the compressor (if you know yet)?

[ascj]

:mad:
You helped me pick it out. Installed 6 weeks ago:
25HPA536H003
58cva090-1-16
csphp3612A1A.
This is a 2 zone system controled with Infinity zoning.

Fault 72, temperature cutout. Right after installation, when the 2nd stage kicked in the unit would stop with the message. It would operate on the low compressor setting however.

Last week when I arrived home the unit was off with Fault 82, temperature timeout 4 hour, and would not operate at all.

HVAC technician arrives at the house and doesnt know what to do. Called local Carrier guy who didnt know and provided Carrier support number. He called Carrier support and had to answer 20 questions before they switched him to the "technical" guy. This technical guy had NO CLUE what was wrong and said that they would "elevate" the problem to someone (presumably) technically higher....who MIGHT CALL BACK TODAY!!!!

This was about 5PM EDST. Can Carrier be closed? Don't they sell units in California where it's 2PM? How can the company operate like that??

While waiting for the hopefull call that never came, he checked the continuity across the compressor and guess what. The compressor is toast!
Are other companies this dis-reputable. I almost bought a Trane.

Or the continuity across the compressor, showed that the internal overload opened and the compressor is fine and something else caused the compressor to overheat.

[ChuckHVAC]

Or the continuity across the compressor, showed that the internal overload opened and the compressor is fine and something else caused the compressor to overheat.

I agree, I see very few compressors fail that soon.

[jojogeorgina]

I agree, I see very few compressors fail that soon.

Compressor was cold (off for days) when he checked it. He also pushed the relay and the fan hummed but didnt run. He hooked the lead from the fan to bypass the relay and pushed the fan to get it turning and it barely ran. The fan appears to be bad as well, unless the guy is very wrong, but I watched as he showed me. There was 240v going to the outside unit.

[simplyrollin]

You have voltage issues, or a bad electrical component.

[robinair]

sounds like pilot error on the installation , i have never managed to fry a compressor on anything in this short of a time , especially on a new system that has safety feutures , i suspect overcharge and lack of evacuation as the culprit .
A factory authorized dealer ( FAD ) is reccomended , go to carrier.com and put your zipcode in the dealer locator and look for the FAD logo.

[MADHVACTECH]

sounds like pilot error on the installation , i have never managed to fry a compressor on anything in this short of a time , especially on a new system that has safety feutures , i suspect overcharge and lack of evacuation as the culprit .
A factory authorized dealer ( FAD ) is reccomended , go to carrier.com and put your zipcode in the dealer locator and look for the FAD logo.

I agree suspect some sort of a install error. I have seen many techs that have said with all new equipment and lines there is no need to vacum them down, or purge the lines. So I would make sure you had a quailifed installer. Either FAD or NATE certifed.

[Edwin73]

Yes, it's not normal that a compressor is out this soon. In my opinion, I don't like Carrier or their products.

[dash]

If tey are a CFAD (Carrier Factory Authorized Dealer) they'll replace it or refund the price agreeded upon,just ask.

If not they can still replace it and resolve the issue,whatever it is,just keep the communications open and be reasonable.

[jstjohnz]

Compressor was cold (off for days) when he checked it. He also pushed the relay and the fan hummed but didnt run. He hooked the lead from the fan to bypass the relay and pushed the fan to get it turning and it barely ran. The fan appears to be bad as well, unless the guy is very wrong, but I watched as he showed me. There was 240v going to the outside unit.

Odds of a fan and compressor both failing this early are extremely small. I question the competence of the tech that checked this.

[gary_g]

What percentage of compressors from Carrier burn up in 30 days?

.0000000000000000000000000000000001%

[classical]

This is not an issue with Carrier equipment or their tech support; it is all about the quality of the installation and lack of competence of the "technician" working on it. I have found over the years that Carrier tech support is well above the norm, however I am competent enough to have the information they need to address my needs.

The person working on your system should have had all pertinent information available for the tech rep before he called in. the fact that there was an issue with the compressor is very relevant and should have been noted to the Carrier people.

I suggest you have the installing company send a more skilled and knowledgeable representative out or pony up the money to hire one from another company. If you purchased the 10-year parts and labor warranty you can request that another qualified contractor come out.

[jojogeorgina]

sounds like pilot error on the installation , i have never managed to fry a compressor on anything in this short of a time , especially on a new system that has safety feutures , i suspect overcharge and lack of evacuation as the culprit .
A factory authorized dealer ( FAD ) is reccomended , go to carrier.com and put your zipcode in the dealer locator and look for the FAD logo.

They were not listed as a FAD. When I questioned the head guy he said he would have to pay Carrier 7k to be listed as a FAD. They did vacuum the lines prior to hooking the outdoor unit up. When I asked about overpressure in the lines he said the high pressure switch would cut it off to protect it.

[the dangling wrangler]

I may have missed it but, why was the original system changed out?

[robinair]

first question , are you still down ?
if yes go online to the carrier dealer locator and find a FAD dealer
If no what was the outcome ?
As to FAD costs , that is not true , Carrier requires financial integrity , insurance including workmans comp , Nate certified Techs , bussiness training etc etc to become FAD due to the 100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEE backed by Carrier corp.
So its not the box its the installation that is the issue .
PS in 32 years i have only fried 1 compressor at start up and that was a three phase compresor , so you must have had a major malfunction in the installation to fry the compressor .

[t527ed]

Odds of a fan and compressor both failing this early are extremely small. I question the competence of the tech that checked this.

X2

[dash]

May be an install issue,but I wouldn't throw them under the bus until all the facts are in.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Stories like this are why Consumer Reports is garbage.

I'm sure this guy would be quick to throw Carrier under the bus when more than likely the equipment wasn't installed correctly.

[the dangling wrangler]

May be an install issue,but I wouldn't throw them under the bus until all the facts are in.

Same here. Could be storm damage, we really don't know.

[coolwhip]

When I used to install carrier equipment, I can remember on several occasions where the outdoor fan wouldn't start upon first startup. You would literally have to give it a little push, and then it was fine from there on out. Not sure why...maybe it was tight from the factory or something.

Maybe that's the case here....maybe it was 15 feet of lineset, and they said ..good to go, and the outdoor fan never came on. Then the compressor kept cycling on internal overload and seized.

[jojogeorgina]

Yes, I am still down and waiting for the guy to let me know what Carrier is going to do (i.e. replace compressor or the whole unit).

[the dangling wrangler]

Yes, I am still down and waiting for the guy to let me know what Carrier is going to do (i.e. replace compressor or the whole unit).

"They" really need to determine what caused this unit to crater, before they change anything out.

[robinair]

First of all you would not be without AIR ! we would have replaced the unit regardless of the manufacturer , shot the Installing Tech and bought you some roses with a gift certificate to your favourite restaurant , it blows me away that you are not screaming from the tallest building ! (However it is 93 degrees in Katy texas at 6.29 PM ! so Texans expect more )
You still deserve better service !

[RyanHughes]

First of all you would not be without AIR ! we would have replaced the unit regardless of the manufacturer , shot the Installing Tech and bought you some roses with a gift certificate to your favourite restaurant , it blows me away that you are not screaming from the tallest building ! (However it is 93 degrees in Katy texas at 6.29 PM ! so Texans expect more )
You still deserve better service !

I want to be your customer. :D

[Joe Harper]

It is not uncommon to have a DOA unit or a compressor die in the firsst month. I have seen two of these two speed bristol recips die in a short peorid. It was not the installers fault. Dont believe me? Go to the trane or carrier dealer and ask them for a DOA form. The compressor is not guaranteed to run for any specific peorid of time. The replacement of it is.

The installing company should of had this compressor swapped out the same day, if not the next morning. After it is installed, then the rest of the system can be checked for faults.

[dr singleton]

Iam not nor have ever been a fan of bristol compressors.. they are week your installing contractor should lean on carrier for a replacement UNIT...yes..I know..a "warranty is what the fine print says..but we have always leaned on our suppliers and got a new unit same day
As well ..much is to be desired for carrier's customer service, they are on the decline because of this
sorry for your trouble

[kubota]

What is calling Carrier tech support really going to accomplish? A true tech should know the operating sequences of the equipment he/she installs. This isn't difficult stuff....plus Carrier publishes training manuals for every piece of equipment they make. The manuals tell you where power is supposed to be and when depending upon what the tstat is calling for.

So the problem here is the install was hosed due to incompetence of the man in the white van.

[sparks]

My experience is; I don't care what the name says on the side of the unit if it's not sized and installed properly your in for a lot of headaches. The converse is true as well a correctly sized and installed (insert budget brand name here) unit should give you years of service without issue.

Your beef should not be with Carrier, rather with the company that installed it. The furnace and heat-pump you listed are both good units, and Carrier is a decent brand.

Now, without seeing pictures of your install or putting hands on it I can't tell you what went wrong. I wouldn't even try.

I will say this, that it is very odd that both the compressor and condenser fan motor failed at the same time and after only 6weeks of service. What would concern me if I were a consumer is the fact that the tech only found it while "waiting" for tech support to call him back and had "no clue" why it wasn't cooling. That right there shows a lack of basic service knowledge.

[jojogeorgina]

The compressor will be replaced tomorrow. But you are at least somewhat correct. If I could "TRANSFER" my job to another dealer I would, but it looks like I am stuck with this company since they were already paid.

[the dangling wrangler]

The compressor will be replaced tomorrow. But you are at least somewhat correct. If I could "TRANSFER" my job to another dealer I would, but it looks like I am stuck with this company since they were already paid.

We don't know for a fact, that "they" did anything wrong on the installation. Do we?

[jojogeorgina]

I dont know yet if "they" botched the install.
I know that I have been without a/c since Friday (6 days) and many professional members said they would have responded immediately to this type of issue.

[the dangling wrangler]

I dont know yet if "they" botched the install.
I know that I have been without a/c since Friday (6 days) and many professional members said they would have responded immediately to this type of issue.

I would have, too. It's the right thing to do.

[wahoo]

We've been in this business for years, and if we have a DOA coompressor, we just replace the entire unit without any question. The supplier will work with us as to the status of the DOA unit, and the customer is tickled to death with our response. (Maybe that's why we've survived this long?) If you are a "good" HVAC contractor, the supplier wants to keep you happy!:)

[RyanHughes]

We've been in this business for years, and if we have a DOA coompressor, we just replace the entire unit without any question. The supplier will work with us as to the status of the DOA unit, and the customer is tickled to death with our response. (Maybe that's why we've survived this long?) If you are a "good" HVAC contractor, the supplier wants to keep you happy!:)

I agree. As a homeowner I would not be happy replacing a compressor that soon, assuming the compressor really is gone.

[wahoo]

I agree. As a homeowner I would not be happy replacing a compressor that soon, assuming the compressor really is gone.

Once the homeowner is made whole and happy, then comes the time to figure out the why and how. AFter all, if the customer ain't happy, noooobody is gonna be happy!!

[jojogeorgina]

:mad:
You helped me pick it out. Installed 6 weeks ago:
25HPA536H003
58cva090-1-16
csphp3612A1A.
This is a 2 zone system controled with Infinity zoning.

Fault 72, temperature cutout. Right after installation, when the 2nd stage kicked in the unit would stop with the message. It would operate on the low compressor setting however.

Last week when I arrived home the unit was off with Fault 82, temperature timeout 4 hour, and would not operate at all.

HVAC technician arrives at the house and doesnt know what to do. Called local Carrier guy who didnt know and provided Carrier support number. He called Carrier support and had to answer 20 questions before they switched him to the "technical" guy. This technical guy had NO CLUE what was wrong and said that they would "elevate" the problem to someone (presumably) technically higher....who MIGHT CALL BACK TODAY!!!!

This was about 5PM EDST. Can Carrier be closed? Don't they sell units in California where it's 2PM? How can the company operate like that??

While waiting for the hopefull call that never came, he checked the continuity across the compressor and guess what. The compressor is toast!
Are other companies this dis-reputable. I almost bought a Trane.

UPDATE:
This is day 8 after the failure I described above.
The same tech I spoke of above arrived with the new compressor. Carrier called him back the NEXT DAY about noon. Carrier said he didnt know what caused the thermal fault 72 but something was probably making the compressor run hot. Tech described everything he did including ohming out the compressor and the continuity as well as the fan problem. Carrier said to change out the compressor and the fan would probably run properly.

The failure was diagnosed 33 days after installation. My tech said that Carrier was going to supply the compressor, but NOT PAY THE LABOR. He said his boss the owner of the company had to argue with Carrier to have them pay for the compressor changeout since it was over 30 days!

So the tech changed out the compressor, did a nitrogen leak check, vacuum pumped out the lines, and added the Puron. I turned the thermostat on, and no go -Fault 72, the tech hand turned the fan to get it turning. He put the ohm meter on the new compressor and it showed continuity just the same as the old one. I was contemplating legal action while the tech read over all the paperwork on the system. Eventually he changed the capacitor on the fan and yelled, ITS WORKING.... and it was, no more Fault 72.

At least I have a/c now. The tech showed me the proper code for a faulty capacitor which never flashed. So it looks to me like the contractor was minimally adequate but took 8 days to have it running. They probably changed out a compressor unnecessarily. I wish I could transfer the one year labor warrenty to another company. But the tech did the best "he" could do.

What about Carrier support? It would have been obviously best if they responded to the tech at the site rather than the next day. Did a bad capacitor cause a fault 72? It looks like it, but that is the wrong code. What about the "advanced" Carrier support. It is unlikely anything was wrong with the first compressor. Carrier originally sent a new unit with a bad capacitor. and the system is giving a mis-leading code.

If I tried to make this stuff up, I could never dream up such a story. I have a/c but still have flow issues to resolve another day.

[Some Dude]

Im sorry to hear this.
I would write, call and fax Carrier and let them know exactly what you think of this experience.
I have helped inform one manf. of issues with their equipment while dealing with their tech people. Then seen the same thing sent to me as a tech bulletin.
But i will not quit, i call back or just make them stay on the phone until it is working or they answer my questions.
The trick is when i call i know exactly what i am doing and it is a real deal problem. Often these guys get calls from less experienced techs and they dont take it seriously.
Let them know how you feel and dont take any crap from Carrier.

[ChuckHVAC]

Ah jeez,
Every experienced tech reading this is probably thinking like me... well I thought dual capacitor as soon as you said compressor and fan motor.. but he ohmed the compressor. Who would a thunk... he didn't disconnect the leads when he ohmed the compressor.
Your problem was so simple that many of us, and probably Carrier tech support assumed the tech knew how to find a bad capacitor. Your guy is either under qualified or had a bad day.
My opinions:
1. The whole experience should not cost you anything, refuse to pay. A qualified and experienced tech would have had it fixed in 10 minutes.
2. Don't blame Carrier, I'm sure their tech support assumed the tech knew the basics.
3. Don't worry about the codes. I'm not a Carrier dealer, but I bet their unit diagnostics cannot tell a bad capacitor from a bad compressor. The best I've seen can tell you the compressor drew amps but but didn't run. Not a problem for a qualified tech.

[ChuckHVAC]

P.S.
Yes the capacitor caused the thermal fault. A bad capacitor kept the compressor from starting and instead it became an electric heater cycling on the thermal limit.

[AcGolfer]

Seems bad to blame Carrier for a bad capacitor that could not be diagnosed by a so called technician, he was probably just a installer.
When talking to any tech support a little knowledge of the equipment help so a educated conversation can be had. Then a educated diagnoses can be make.
Now Carrier wasted a prefect good compressor and the tech wasted his boss time.
Also the capacitor wasn't made by Carrier and I think we are know capacitor are not what they used to be when they had PCB in them.

[the dangling wrangler]

Seems bad to blame Carrier for a bad capacitor that could not be diagnosed by a so called technician, he was probably just a installer.
When talking to any tech support a little knowledge of the equipment help so a educated conversation can be had. Then a educated diagnoses can be make.
Now Carrier wasted a prefect good compressor and the tech wasted his boss time.
Also the capacitor wasn't made by Carrier and I think we are know capacitor are not what they used to be when they had PCB in them.

Could be, the company this tech works for knows his experience is limited. And being it's the busy time of year, they're having him do something he isn't comfortable doing. It's easy being the Monday morning quarter back. Could the installing company handled this better? Ab-so-lut-ly. I'd like to know why this comedy of errors has dragged on as long as it has. There really isn't any excuse.

[Some Dude]

Have ya paid them yet?

[the dangling wrangler]

Have ya paid them yet?

:D:D

[Some Dude]

Just curious , that may answer everything.

[jojogeorgina]

Yes, they were paid 1/2 up front, and the remainder after installation. It worked after installation but needed some small adjustments so I paid.

Aside from all the screw ups, no one has mentioned that the infinity system gave a mis-leading code to the tech. If it gave the correct code, "I" could have changed the capacitor.

[the dangling wrangler]

Yes, they were paid 1/2 up front, and the remainder after installation. It worked after installation but needed some small adjustments so I paid.

Aside from all the screw ups, no one has mentioned that the infinity system gave a mis-leading code to the tech. If it gave the correct code, "I" could have changed the capacitor.

What was the reason for the eight day delay? If "they" even gave you one. As far as the mis-leading code, sometimes ya just gotta be smarter than the machine you're working on.

[Some Dude]

Yes, they were paid 1/2 up front, and the remainder after installation. It worked after installation but needed some small adjustments so I paid.

Aside from all the screw ups, no one has mentioned that the infinity system gave a mis-leading code to the tech. If it gave the correct code, "I" could have changed the capacitor.

Tell them they can either make this right or you can start a shift blizzard. This sounds like both of their faults.
See if you can squeeze a pm or box of good filters out of them.

[the dangling wrangler]

Tell them they can either make this right or you can start a shift blizzard. This sounds like both of their faults.
See if you can squeeze a pm or box of good filters out of them.

I agree. "They" really need to do something. Eight days without is unacceptable, no matter what state you live in. Filters would be the safest way to go. I know I wouldn't want this company around any more than necessary. Look for a smaller company, one that needs/wants you as a customer.

[ChuckHVAC]

Aside from all the screw ups, no one has mentioned that the infinity system gave a mis-leading code to the tech. If it gave the correct code, "I" could have changed the capacitor.

Again I say, no equipment manufacturer's codes are perfect, Carrier has better codes than most manufacturers, you still have to be a decent tech. The codes are helpful sometimes, but no one who has any business inside your unit should need a code to find a bad capacitor.

[BobbyBJr]

Well, before you are too hard on Carrier and their faults, from what I am reading here Fault 72 is something to do with the overload opening in the compressor. Basically, that should have lead your tech straight to the capacitor, if the compressor wasn't starting, so it isn't a problem with the faults. There are other things that might cause it to overheat if it was running, but in this case I am understanding that it wasn't starting at all. We all miss stuff from time to time, but I think the real problem here is that it took over a week to get you back up and running. That would not have happened at our company. If we have a lesser experienced tech having a problem like that, we'd send over a more experienced tech to have a look. If the 2nd tech said it was indeed the compressor, we'd have it here ASAP and change it or the unit to get the customer comfortable. Then we'd argue with the distributor if we had to...lol.

In fact, we recently had a new Carrier package unit diagnosed with the compressor DOA by our installers, but it was raining so hard a tech couldn't take a look at it that day, so he went over the next morning. Turns out that somewhere along the line a wire had come off a connection and fell down where the guys didn't see it. We already had a compressor on the way with expedited shipping in case we needed it, but fortunately we did not and the customer is happy. You have more of a problem with your contractor than you do with Carrier.

[the dangling wrangler]

Well, before you are too hard on Carrier and their faults, from what I am reading here Fault 72 is something to do with the overload opening in the compressor. Basically, that should have lead your tech straight to the capacitor, if the compressor wasn't starting, so it isn't a problem with the faults. There are other things that might cause it to overheat if it was running, but in this case I am understanding that it wasn't starting at all. We all miss stuff from time to time, but I think the real problem here is that it took over a week to get you back up and running. That would not have happened at our company. If we have a lesser experienced tech having a problem like that, we'd send over a more experienced tech to have a look. If the 2nd tech said it was indeed the compressor, we'd have it here ASAP and change it or the unit to get the customer comfortable. Then we'd argue with the distributor if we had to...lol.

In fact, we recently had a new Carrier package unit diagnosed with the compressor DOA by our installers, but it was raining so hard a tech couldn't take a look at it that day, so he went over the next morning. Turns out that somewhere along the line a wire had come off a connection and fell down where the guys didn't see it. We already had a compressor on the way with expedited shipping in case we needed it, but fortunately we did not and the customer is happy. You have more of a problem with your contractor than you do with Carrier.

Good reply.