Cased coil much wider than furnace? Air intake pipe?

[victork1998]

Hi, I am having two old systems replaced with Rheem. One has been installed. I have a few questions. 1): The cased coil (RCQD for the 3 ton RARL JEZ 036) is about 6-7" wider than the furnace (RGFD07, 75,000BTU). Is it a wright match? Hope they will get me a right sized coil for the second unit. 2): The company subcontracted the installation to an installer. Is the installer's HVAC certification/training important? They work very hard, but I am not sure about their experience. 3): Does the furnace need an air intake pipe? Only the old exhaust PVC pipe was used. 4): The second unit will be in the attic. It is the RGJD07 furnace, RCQD coil and RARL JEZ 036 condenser. Will the furnace drain be frozen in winter? Or should it be drained inside?
Thanks very much. Vic

[wi_badger]

I am curious about this also since I am having the same system installed tomorrow.

The RCQD coil should have some numbers after it (ex RCQD-3617, -3621, -3624). I am guessing this will help folks here answer your question.

[docholiday]

If you are going to install a coil that much wider than the furnace, you should install a transition between the two. (See the installation instructions). A coil that is 3" wider is not a big deal since the outer inch and a half are mostly drain pan anyway. However the 6" wider coil requires a transition.

The mod furnace requires a two pipe (direct vent) unless there is a vertical termination. This is for several reasons you will soon find out if he cuts that corner.

A condensing furnace in the attic is ok, however any exposed drain should be heated with pipe heating tape. (the actual term eludes me, sorry).

[victork1998]

If you are going to install a coil that much wider than the furnace, you should install a transition between the two. (See the installation instructions). A coil that is 3" wider is not a big deal since the outer inch and a half are mostly drain pan anyway. However the 6" wider coil requires a transition.

The mod furnace requires a two pipe (direct vent) unless there is a vertical termination. This is for several reasons you will soon find out if he cuts that corner.

A condensing furnace in the attic is ok, however any exposed drain should be heated with pipe heating tape. (the actual term eludes me, sorry).

Thanks very much. A transition was made and the unit looks funny: Big top smaller bottom. I think I have enough space in the basement, so air intake pipe is probably not necessary. For the attic, the existing vertical termination will be used. I am still confused about the attic furnace drain. I don't think the old furnace have a drain. There is a drain for the coil. Does new furnace produce lots of condensation?
Vic

[BaldLoonie]

Seems to me we covered this once.

There isn't a rating for the RGJD-07 with the 24" wide coil. I'd guess they figure a sharp dealer isn't going to put a 24" wide coil on a 17" side furnace. The rating is for the 21" coil and is 14 SEER 11.30 EER. Don't look for a tax credit!

[victork1998]

Seems to me we covered this once.

There isn't a rating for the RGJD-07 with the 24" wide coil. I'd guess they figure a sharp dealer isn't going to put a 24" wide coil on a 17" side furnace. The rating is for the 21" coil and is 14 SEER 11.30 EER. Don't look for a tax credit!
Are you sure that I will not get the tax credit? I was told by the dealer that I qualify for the $1500 tax credit in the contract. The dealer also guarantees that I will get $2000 Rheem rebates. Does it has to be system listed on Rheem' web site for the tax credit? If no credit for the two systems, I will ask them the re-match the second unit which has not been installed yet. Thanks.

[BaldLoonie]

On cooling, you need an A/C with 16 SEER/13 EER to qualify. On heating, you need a 95% furnace with ECM blower. Out of all that, all you get is an ECM blower so, no, you won't get the $1500. You may get a little for the blower motor but the IRS hasn't said yet how to figure that. But they have said just having the motor won't give you the full boat, contrary to what Rheem & the dealer say.

[neophytes serendipity]

Tax credit info:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c3

[victork1998]

Tax credit info:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c3

Thanks for the web site. According to that, 16 seer or higher central AC qualifies for the tax credit. Not sure about the need for a complete system. Rheem also gives "Proof of Qualified Energy Property for Claiming Tax Credits" for each individual furnaces. I think I am ok, right?

[neophytes serendipity]

Thanks for the web site. According to that, 16 seer or higher central AC qualifies for the tax credit. Not sure about the need for a complete system. Rheem also gives "Proof of Qualified Energy Property for Claiming Tax Credits" for each individual furnaces. I think I am ok, right?

No, you aren't ok. You missed the fine print.

The SEER rating is obtained by putting a large capacity indoor coil on a large indoor blower and a smaller outdoor unit (condenser).

It can be difficult to get a match, and the furnace is usually oversized to meet the SEER requirements. Big furnaces have big blowers. Many matches are for slab coils- which may not work for you. Slab coils are less restrictive and have more surface area than equal capacity A shaped coils.

If you follow the links on that Energy Star website, it will take you to another place to find equipment matches.

Start here and read up: http://ari.org/Content/FederalTaxCredits_896.aspx

I'm not going to do all the work here :D

Be warned that if your ductwork is not able to handle the airflow needed for the blower matchup, the combination will not work at your house, even though some table says it will.

If your installed combination does not have an ARI certificate, you do not get the tax credit. It is that simple. Something scribbled on the receipt won't cut it.

You need a Tier 3 rating for straight AC and a Tier 2 rating for a heat pump to be eligible for the tax credits. Being Energy Star qualified does not mean you get the tax credits.

It is much easier to meet the qualifications for the 95% furnace by itself... and you may get real close to the $1500 maximum.

SEER ratings are guesses. If the HVAC system is crappy, you won't get the SEER on the chart.

[victork1998]

John, thanks very much for pointing out the importance of AHRI certified ref #. It is too late for my first unit. For the second unit, I will request them to put in the following combination that has a AHRI #: 1). Rheem RARL 036JEZ, RCQD3621A and RGJD09EZCM (90,000 btu, instead of the original 75,000 btu, which will be 16.5 seer and has a AHRI # 3202880; or 2). downsizing to RARL 036JEZ, RCQD3621A and RGJD06EZCM (60,000 btu), which is 16.0 seer and has a AHRI # 3202878. Rheem does not make any furnace that is 95% or higher. Hope this combination will satisfy IRS. Thanks again. Please inform if I still have problem here. Vic

[neophytes serendipity]

As long as you have that certificate, and that's what gets installed (verify model numbers) then you are good to go.

If that ductwork (or flexwork :D) can't handle the air, choosing equipment to get a tax credit will cost you in the long run because the system won't deliver the efficiency and the bigger system will cost more to operate.

Buyer beware.

[docholiday]

On cooling, you need an A/C with 16 SEER/13 EER to qualify. On heating, you need a 95% furnace with ECM blower. Out of all that, all you get is an ECM blower so, no, you won't get the $1500. You may get a little for the blower motor but the IRS hasn't said yet how to figure that. But they have said just having the motor won't give you the full boat, contrary to what Rheem & the dealer say.

Well, as you say, the IRS is not clear but you dont need the E motor and 95%, it looks like it's one or the other. Then 30% of the furnace part of the job could be used for the credit. With 2 systems in the house if one makes it, generally you'll max out on the 1500 anyway.

[docholiday]

. I think I have enough space in the basement, so air intake pipe is probably not necessary.

Did I stutter or did your eyelids flap? Two pipe is required when venting horizontally on the mod. regardless of how much space you have.

[victork1998]

Did I stutter or did your eyelids flap? Two pipe is required when venting horizontally on the mod. regardless of how much space you have.

Sorry, I misunderstood the issue. So I still need one air intake pipe and one exhaust pipe? He only connected to the old 3" horizontal exhaust pipe.

[victork1998]

Quote "If your installed combination does not have an ARI certificate, you do not get the tax credit. It is that simple. Something scribbled on the receipt won't cut it."
Is an ARI certified ref # for a 16 seer system good for the tax credit? From www.ahridirectory.org site, many 16 or higher systems DO NOT have "yes" in the colume of "eligiable for fed tax credit". Only a handful Rheem systems have yes checked. I am not sure what to do now.

[neophytes serendipity]

Is an ARI certified ref # for a 16 seer system good for the tax credit? From www.ahridirectory.org site, many 16 or higher systems DO NOT have "yes" in the colume of "eligiable for fed tax credit". Only a handful Rheem systems have yes checked. I am not sure what to do now.


Your furnace (or air handler) + indoor coil + outdoor condenser must have an EER >= 13 and a SEER >= 16 as a rated system. Says so right on the Energy Star website.

Just because you pick out a 16 SEER condenser doesn't mean that you get the tax credit.

As you have learned, that combination is exceedingly difficult to match.

It seems to be easier to get a qualifying match with a 14 SEER condenser and a big coil on a big blower rather than a "16 SEER" 2 stage unit.

[neophytes serendipity]

Well, as you say, the IRS is not clear but you dont need the E motor and 95%, it looks like it's one or the other. Then 30% of the furnace part of the job could be used for the credit. With 2 systems in the house if one makes it, generally you'll max out on the 1500 anyway.

The tax credit for a furnace that is less than 95% AFUE with an electrically efficient motor (variable speed) has not been determined yet. Check the Energy Star website.

The only sure fire "furnace only" tax credit eligibility is with a 95% AFUE rated furnace.

[victork1998]

Finally got a system that is 13 eer and 16 seer. The owner of the HVAC company is still confused and thinks that the e-motor will qualify the furnace for the rebate. I'd like to thank everybody for your valuable inputs. There are some true pros here and saved me from future IRS trouble. Cheers!

[sktn77a]

For 2007, the rebate on a high efficiency blower motor was only $50. It hasn't been determined yet what it will be for 2009 but it WON'T be $1500!

What system is the owner telling you will qualify?

[neophytes serendipity]

For 2007, the rebate on a high efficiency blower motor was only $50. It hasn't been determined yet what it will be for 2009 but it WON'T be $1500!

What system is the owner telling you will qualify?

Actually, there is an answer on the fan: http://tinyurl.com/c2kgl2