comparing apples to oranges

[thisorthat]

I just purchased an 8 year old duplex, 1300 sqft with 650 sqft framed but unfinished basement. The furnace is Heil # NTC6075FBA2 75K btu. I would like to have cental ac, preferably a tax eligible energy star unit. I have received 3 quotes that I am having trouble comparing. All three have said that the furnace would need to be replaced to make the new install eligible for the tax credit.

1) 13 SEER 2 ton Amana AC w / 95% 2 Stage Amana Furnace (no model #'s quoted).

2) 16 SEER 2.5 ton Lennox XC14 AC w / G60UVH-36A-070 Lennox furnace.

3) 16 SEER 2 ton Rheem RARL AC w / 95% 2 stage Rheem 60k btu furnace.

Quote 3 is considerably higher ($) than 1 or 2 but installs high efficiency ac and furnace. Quote 1 installs a high efficiency furnace with lower end ac?? Quote 2 installs a high efficiency ac unit with a furnace that may be no better than the existing furnace?? Are quotes 1 and 2 even comparable?? Do I really need to replace my existing furnace to get high efficiency ac? Of 1 or 2 which is most efficient in an environment with hot summers, cold winters and dry climate (50/50 hot to cold)? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[21degrees]

I like option 3 because of equipment. Option 2 looks alright execpt why does he want 2.5 ton and no variable speed furnace. Did any do load calculations and #1 sounds like he has no clue without giving you model numbers. Good Luck

[thisorthat]

Not sure about the load calc, I'll check. Quote 3 measured each room. Quote 2 visited each room. Quote 1 never left the first floor but said he had been in similar units in the area. Quote 2 furnace is variable speed (rechecked quote). Still wondering why the 2 opposite approachs to high efficiency of quotes 1 and 2? Looks like replacing the existing furnace is necessary??

[high plains]

#1 sounds like he has no clue without giving you model numbers. Good Luck


We never specify the model number on a quote. If asked for it, I will provide it, but very few have ever asked for it.

[21degrees]

We never specify the model number on a quote. If asked for it, I will provide it, but very few have ever asked for it.

How does the consumer know what he/she is getting. I know I would not buy something without knowing exactly what it is I am getting. Sorry for blunder with variable speed, I do not know this model on the furnace.

[Thebil Illpay]

How does the consumer know what he/she is getting. I know I would not buy something without knowing exactly what it is I am getting. Sorry for blunder with variable speed, I do not know this model on the furnace.

As a consumer, I agree. I specifically asked for them. The first guy to quote me, on a basic 3 ton Trane 13 seer split system, didn't give them to me and in fact stated 'You don't need to know that.' I might end up using him anyhow if it comes down to it being hot and not being able to get the system that I want installed. He was cheap.

[21degrees]

I would not buy blinded. Educate me and show me what I am getting and I will buy. Do not forget we are consumers also. Treat people exactly how you like to be treated. Most times they are pretty inteligent and can filter out crap.;)

[high plains]

How does the consumer know what he/she is getting. I know I would not buy something without knowing exactly what it is I am getting. Sorry for blunder with variable speed, I do not know this model on the furnace.

I don't know, it's just never been an issue. Occasionally someone will ask and I have no problems telling them what exact model #. Most of my customers don't even ask what brand, nor do they care one way or another. Admittedly, it's a different world out here, my customers trust me and I don't take advantage of that.

My proposal sheets list brand, efficiency, and size. Just in case you're thinking I only tell them a price and that it's a furnace or air conditioner.

[high plains]

I would not buy blinded. Educate me and show me what I am getting and I will buy.

That's exactly the approach I take. What is the point of drilling a customer about the technical side of a furnace when 90% of the time it's the install and service that make it a good or bad experience for them? I'm more than happy to talk about board algorithms with a customer if they want to, I just don't bring it up unless they do. I focus more on what they want from this new equipment and what complaints they may have about their system in general and try to solve those problems. Works for us and our customers both:)

[Thebil Illpay]

That's exactly the approach I take. What is the point of drilling a customer about the technical side of a furnace when 90% of the time it's the install and service that make it a good or bad experience for them? I'm more than happy to talk about board algorithms with a customer if they want to, I just don't bring it up unless they do. I focus more on what they want from this new equipment and what complaints they may have about their system in general and try to solve those problems. Works for us and our customers both:)

Sounds good, and you sound legitimate. What about this other poster DLEE65 and his situation where he got model numbers, did his research, and found a difference in rated capacities? Are his concerns about the rated capacities inconsequential? It seems that he is a low end buyer. Does this make a difference in whether a homeowner should request model numbers?

[high plains]

I wouldn't get to worked about a 1/2 ton difference between quotes, especially in a dry climate like Colorado. Manual j is an important tool to use, but one brands "2ton" may be 25,500 btus while anothers "2 1/2 ton" may be 28,500 btus. What if a manual J says 27,000 heat load? 3 guys will get 3 different manual J results, maybe not far off from each other, but I guarantee they will be a little different just because it's inevitable to measure just a little different here and there or to estimate an R value slightly different.

As far as the original poster goes, depending on where in Colorado they are, a high efficient furnace with a 13 seer A/C makes all the sense in the world. It was only a few years ago we were selling 12 seers as high efficient complete with rebates from the power company anyways, so I don't consider a 13 seer (probably higher with a VS blower) to be an energy hog at all.

[21degrees]

My market is alittle more demanding and consumers want model numbers, options 1,2 or 3 stage variable or non variable, sound ratings ARI seer ratings, load calculations and all ducting options and features. Even with my good friends I would still want to know exactly what I am getting and the features on the product.;)