Low freon

[gcherry]

I had my unit serviced today for the first time since we built the house 7 years ago and I have a question regarding freon level.

Quick background: This past winter the outside unit started heavily frosting over and just thought I would wait until the spring to have a complete service clean and look over. A few days ago I went to replace the indoor filters and notice that water was dripping from the a-frame (it's a heat pump split unit) onto the floor under the unit, it was not going into the drain pan that the a-frame coil sits inside of. The tech cleaned the outside unit with an acid spray, checked all the wiring, and then moved inside. He stated that the indoor coils were clean and did not recommend cleaning them. We turned the unit on and he noticed the freezing up of the coils, which he stated as the reason I was seeing the dripping. He then checked the pressure (freon) levels and he told me the unit was holding about half of what it should. He added freon, checked that the register was showing a temp of 65 degrees, and told me he thought that would fix the problem.

Everything seems to be working better now, extremely cooler in the house now that it is working at full capacity with the freon level. My question is, is it normal to lose freon in the 7+ years that I've had it, esp. since I've never had it serviced?

[amd]

No - there's most likely a leak which needs to be fixed.

[catmanacman]

a system that has lost half its charge the tech should have done a leak search over 90 percent of the time its the indoor coil it probably will quit cooling before end of summer

[menaphnx]

The leak needs to be Found.

[airprokennett]

air conditioning units do tend to leak over time, some sooner than others.although i wonder about the 65 degree reading coming out the register. what was the outdoor temp on this day?

[chadakaira]

The leak needs to be Found.

Well I had a longer explination but then thought about the rules :)

[chadakaira]

[QUOTE=gcherry;3332542]I had my unit serviced today /QUOTE]

No kidding? Me to AWSOME!! high 5 my man!!!

[gcherry]

air conditioning units do tend to leak over time, some sooner than others.although i wonder about the 65 degree reading coming out the register. what was the outdoor temp on this day?

The outdoor temp was in the mid to upper 70's

[gcherry]

The outdoor temp was in the mid to upper 70's

And another thing . . . I assisted the tech in placing the thermostat in the ceiling vent, since I am quite a bit taller then him, before going out and recharging the unit. After he added freon to the unit and allowing it to run for a while he stated that when we pull the thermostat we should see a reading of 65, and he was right on the money.

[beenthere]

And another thing . . . I assisted the tech in placing the thermostat in the ceiling vent, since I am quite a bit taller then him, before going out and recharging the unit. After he added freon to the unit and allowing it to run for a while he stated that when we pull the thermostat we should see a reading of 65, and he was right on the money.
Thats not the right way to charge or check the charge of an A/C.

It couold still be undercharged, or now, even over charged.

[gcherry]

Thats not the right way to charge or check the charge of an A/C.

It couold still be undercharged, or now, even over charged.

He did hook up a pressure gauge to the lines and was able to show me the current reading (low), before adding freon, and what it read after afterwards.

[beenthere]

He did hook up a pressure gauge to the lines and was able to show me the current reading (low), before adding freon, and what it read after afterwards.
Can't tell if its charge right by the pressure alone.
Need to check line temps also.

So your system could be over or under charged.

[Iceman666]

should have checked superheat

[speedytom]

i in no way mean to sound like an ass but 99% of homeowners have a very small understanding of how an a/c system works. just because he showed you presssure readings on his guages doesnt mean they charged it correctly. the leak definately needs to be found. 65* out of a register on a 70* day seems a bit off also.

[badbillr]

a/c's are a sealed system. that means it should not leak ANY refrigerant if proper installation & start-up procedures are followed. To charge a system correctly, you need to obtain the following values (bare minimum):

suction pressure
head pressure
inside wet-bulb & dry-bulb readings
type of metering device (txv, piston or cap tube)
txv uses sub-cooling, piston uses super-heat & cap tube is either weighed or filled by a graduated charging cylinder
outside air temperature (dry)
return air temperature
supply air temperature
suction line temperature @ service valve port

liquid line temperature @ service valve

The reason I mentioned the items above is to show you that determining a system's refrigerant charge requires more than a simple suction presssure reading & a supply register temperature.



You said he showed you the suction pressure & it was reading 65psi, which he seems to think is the correct pressure reading for a fully charged system. If it was that simple & easy - why would you even need psi markings on the gauge. Wouldn't it just be better to remove the psi markings & replace them with one big marking that says "system full"!!


I'm sure this technician is a good guy & means well, the obvious fact is he lacks formal training. He has been watching & trying to learn techniques from other techs who are doing it incorrectly themselves. This perpetuates bad habits & incorrect diagnosis. You could call his supervisor & ask them how the tech came to the conclusion that the system is correctly charge , taking into consideration he never obtained or calculated the superheat or sub-cooling values for your system. I would like to hear their response to that one. Refrigeration is a branch of science. There are very precise & calculated procedures. In science, you must prove idea/theory & have docs to back it up. If they told another scientist to " just take my word for it, I've been doing this for so many years, I just know it!" That would not fly in the scientific community. Well, this tech's way of charging the system does not fly here.:cool:

[Iceman666]

I`m still very green in my second year of tech school and about 6 months in the field. I was told to always check superheat & subcooling when checking for a proper charge.

[fenian]

"You said he showed you the suction pressure & it was reading 65psi, which he seems to think is the correct pressure reading for a fully charged system. If it was that simple & easy - why would you even need psi markings on the gauge. Wouldn't it just be better to remove the psi markings & replace them with one big marking that says "system full"!!"

the op didn't say anything about 65psi yet its been determined the tech lacks formal training.

I agree with badbillr's point but on more than one occasion have i sent the homeowner off to 'check the stat/temp' when i needed space and quiet time to think. We don't really know what the tech did yet the stake's been lit.

[ray mcbriarty]

u r a lucky fella cherry 7yrs with no service and only 1 problem. you have a leak no dout about it,proably wont last the summer you shoud get it looked at by a pro. i know the first guy got u cool again ,but he broke the law doing it without fixing the leak.

[gcherry]

u r a lucky fella cherry 7yrs with no service and only 1 problem. you have a leak no dout about it,proably wont last the summer you shoud get it looked at by a pro. i know the first guy got u cool again ,but he broke the law doing it without fixing the leak.

how hard is it to fix a leak, is that the reason he didn't look for it?

[beenthere]

Most times harder to find then repair.

[I_bend_metal]

I hate to say this.....but your technician was a complete and total bafoon!!

Before doing anything he should have verified the proper air flow across your coil.....
Then he should have used subcooling and superheat to determine if you were low on charge.....
After he determined you were low on charge he should have found your leak and quoted you for repairs.....

He did nothing more than show up and put a band-aide on your system....and even that he put on wrong.....

[beachtech]

freon??

what's that?

i use refrigerant :D

[I_bend_metal]

freon??

what's that?

i use refrigerant :D


Damn......just a matter of time for that comment to come out.....:D:D:D

[fenian]

"but he broke the law doing it without fixing the leak"

whoa. explain.

[beenthere]

"but he broke the law doing it without fixing the leak"

whoa. explain.
And what law would that be?

[beachtech]

"but he broke the law doing it without fixing the leak"

whoa. explain.

not really :)

some people take things to extremes :)

[beachtech]

And what law would that be?

percentage per year lol

which is more than the total charge of a resi unit leaking down everyday for a year lmao

[beenthere]

percentage per year lol

which is more than the total charge of a resi unit leaking down everyday for a year lmao
Thats what I mean.
Ain't no system containing 50 or more pounds of normal operating charge for residential.

[fenian]

op knew he had a problem back in 2008 and did not address it. had the unit for seven years without maintenance. people are jumping on a tech who may have seen something the rest of us did not i.e the equipment.

hell. maybe it was some kid huffing.
saying the tech broke the law is a lie.

[beachtech]

op knew he had a problem back in 2008 and did not address it. had the unit for seven years without maintenance. people are jumping on a tech who may have seen something the rest of us did not i.e the equipment.

hell. maybe it was some kid huffing.
saying the tech broke the law is a lie.

or it was a real dirty coil that wasn't cleaned, or cleaned well ;)

[fenian]

"or it was a real dirty coil that wasn't cleaned, or cleaned well"

or too well?

:eek:

[beachtech]

"or it was a real dirty coil that wasn't cleaned, or cleaned well"

or too well?

:eek:

let me put that in lamens..

wasnt cleaned or wasn't cleaned very well...

clear as mud now?

my post count just hit 6666 :eek:

[fenian]

let me put that in lamens..

wasnt cleaned or wasn't cleaned very well...

clear as mud now?

my post count just hit 6666 :eek:

not busting on you. just thinking about once watching someone taking a screwdriver to de-ice a coil... i think you know where that went.:)