Inherent flaws..

[Thebil Illpay]

Can anybody think of any inherent flaws in the Rheem model RGPR-07EAMKR that just might make it a less desireable furnace?

[sktn77a]

Less desirable than what? It's a 2 stage (heating and cooling) furnace/air handler with on-board diagnostics, ECM motor and just about all the bells and whistles except modulating burners and 95% efficiency. For an 80% furnace, it' about as good as they get.

[Thebil Illpay]

Less desirable than what? It's a 2 stage (heating and cooling) furnace/air handler with on-board diagnostics, ECM motor and just about all the bells and whistles except modulating burners and 95% efficiency. For an 80% furnace, it' about as good as they get.

Thanks. My likely contractor is trying to talk me out of using the ARI matched
system that I found that would work in this application. He didn't cite any specific reasons but what has been sticking in my head all day was some reference to a Rheem water heater that didn't have a damper and blew up when somebody left a gas can next to it. :)

[jpsmith1cm]

Brand has no bearing on stupid.

If you store flammable fluids near flame producing appliances, you get what you deserve.

[Thebil Illpay]

Brand has no bearing on stupid.

If you store flammable fluids near flame producing appliances, you get what you deserve.

Yep. That's the reason that they changed the codes to require elevated gas water heaters. Because some people are stupid.

[troyorr]

tell the contractor you aren't buying a water heater.

[Thebil Illpay]

tell the contractor you aren't buying a water heater.

:) That's funny. I think he is in a very round-a-bout way trying to tell me that it isn't a good choice. I wish he would come right out and say so and why, if it is not. I have my suspicions about the technical aspects of why it may not be a good choice, and although a reputable guy, he may not be able to explain to me in a simple manner why it isn't.

[sktn77a]

Maybe he just doesn't want to put an 80% furnace in when there are 95%+ furnaces out there.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Maybe he doesn't sell and service Rheem/Ruud which is a pretty important part of the equation.

[Thebil Illpay]

Maybe he doesn't sell and service Rheem/Ruud which is a pretty important part of the equation.

Actually, he mentioned it first. I was brand shopping, just Trane and American Standard. As he was leaving he made a comment about having Rheem systems out here for years with no problem.

I hate to say it, but I'm going to, it may be because I found this ARI mix/matched 2 stage, VS Rheem system that meets my needs very well and that gets me a 13/16 and that is going to be cheaper than the 2 stage VS Trane/American Standard systems that can't get me the 13/16 without a big jump in the SEER. And I'll be putting that tax credit in my pocket: it was money on the table he didn't even know was there and I didn't either before he brought up the brand and I did my research. It might just bug him.

And since y'all on this forum drive in the point that brand is lowest on the list of priorities, and, I recognize the Rheem brand as at least having longevity...

[Thebil Illpay]

Okay. I'll attempt to phrase this so that it doesn't tread into the technical area.

What, if any, loss occurs as the TEL is increased?

Or, another way to ask it might be: is there a formula for the watts consumed per BTU/hr per foot of TEL.

Bear in mind that I'm not doing the job myself.

EDIT: Sheeat!! I can go ask my neighbor. He designs commercial York installations and wants me to build him a wrought iron gate for his pool gate.

EDIT: Then again, maybe he actually said he bids systems. There's a difference.

[neophytes serendipity]

You are trying to figure losses on a 68 foot lineset? Some stuff is good for 80 feet and more.

I don't see how they could be significant enough to impact a typical residential system... especially when the application is mostly horizontal. Obviously keeping the lines out of the dirt and water are paramount. Good practices like straight runs without unwanted traps is good, too.

Is your equipment sized so tight that a possible few hundred btu's is going to matter?

Maybe a search for lineset design info or long line applications would help.

[chadakaira]

I'ts a Rheem?

[Thebil Illpay]

I'ts a Rheem?

Yes. ARI mix/matched - ADP coil

[Thebil Illpay]

You are trying to figure losses on a 68 foot lineset? Some stuff is good for 80 feet and more.

I don't see how they could be significant enough to impact a typical residential system... especially when the application is mostly horizontal. Obviously keeping the lines out of the dirt and water are paramount. Good practices like straight runs without unwanted traps is good, too.

Is your equipment sized so tight that a possible few hundred btu's is going to matter?

Maybe a search for lineset design info or long line applications would help.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure the losses. I'm trying to figure out what he is actually trying to tell me about this system that makes it less desireable that he can't say. He told me somebody - I presumed a designer at the suppler -told me I'd lose 1 eer point for every ten feet past 50'.

So, I'd like to figure it. I realized after I made that post that there is more to it. Line dia., short sweep radius vs. long sweep radius vs. 90's and probably service ports and so forth.

No, the sytem isn't that btu/h tight. 2-1/2 required, getting 3. Whether the sytem is good for that distance or not I'm no longer so sure, even though the manufacturers spec's says it is. In a perfect world it works like so kind of thing.

Good advice on the search, I'll do that with those search terms.

Thinking again, the bends and turns shouldn't make any difference in that calculation because I would be applying it to the TEL, and bends and turns are already figured into the TEL so it should be a straightforward -for practical purposes -calculation.

[Thebil Illpay]

Google search for "line set design" air conditioning yields five hits. The first one for a course the syllabus of which doesn't even mention anything that sounds like that kind of math will be used and the next two link to this site. funny,huh?

[chadakaira]

Yes. ARI mix/matched - ADP coil

I was hopeing someone would pick up on that :)

[Thebil Illpay]

I was hopeing someone would pick up on that :)

Damn damn damn, is that probably it? He doesn't want to install a mix/match system even if it has an ARI number?

But I've read in this very site about aftermarket coil's being used as OEM. So what difference does it really make?

So that tells me even though this guy makes the top of my charts in preferred installation tech's if I want this sytem installed I am going to have to shop around for another installation tech. That sucks. All over a fri---g coil?

[neophytes serendipity]

Google search for "line set design" air conditioning yields five hits. The first one for a course the syllabus of which doesn't even mention anything that sounds like that kind of math will be used and the next two link to this site. funny,huh?

Try searching this site, too. Maybe something will come up.

Other terms could be refrigeration line set design, long air conditioning line set design... there are lots of variables here.

Could be stuff buried on MFG websites, like Carrier for example.

I can't put anything here because of the DIY rule.

There are educational forums here. Have/can you applied for membership? There is a whole crapload of information available in there.

[Thebil Illpay]

Have/can you applied for membership?

No, can't. But that's okay. I've learned enough from this forum and my other research and searches to know that the ARI matched system I found will do the job. If the guy I've been leaning towards won't do it, then I guess its going to be a price thing among the rest. I've a quote on a Trane 13, SS furnacethat's right in the ballpark about what it seems to cost people in other markets to have installed.

[Some Dude]

Maybe he just doesn't want to put an 80% furnace in when there are 95%+ furnaces out there.

Maybe he doesnt want to end up on hvac-talk,:D

Also good answer troyorr

[Thebil Illpay]

Maybe he doesnt want to end up on hvac-talk,:D

Also good answer troyorr

That's funny. But if he did, I believe it wouldn't be because of problems. Anyhow, if you notice most people, including me don't post the names of people they're dealing with unless they extremely P'O'd and took it in the behind most outrageously.

I'm getting this not so warm and fuzzy feeling that I may not have an HVAC until next year.

[sktn77a]

Be careful you don't over analyze the install. Do your basic homework and pick a decent installer with good references and a clean BBB bill of health. Beyond that you're just going to be pissing people off and no-one will install your system for you!

[Thebil Illpay]

Be careful you don't over analyze the install. Do your basic homework and pick a decent installer with good references and a clean BBB bill of health. Beyond that you're just going to be pissing people off and no-one will install your system for you!

Good advice. I really haven't had any problems with anybody that has come to give me a quote. Aside from the line set criteria which I had set forth in another thread as illustrative of the situation, I haven't told anybody how I expect anything that they are going to be doing being done in any particular way. Just that they are doing this part - the HVAC and I am doing this part and how I am doing it. No one, except on this forum, had a problem with it.

The problem I have now is the HVAC contractors making. If he isn't willing to install a Rheem system with an aftermarket coil he should say so and then better hope he doesn't get a rebadged aftermarket coil for OEM if I choose the Trane or American Standard. Fair enough?,

[Thebil Illpay]

Actually, I think none of the reasons I've suggested is the actual reason. I think that maybe he doesn't do anything except swap out replacements and service calls. That would explain a comment he made about generally just doing routine stuff. So, when it gets to something like this he couldn't reasonably charge an amount to cover the extra time to make up for this being so non-routine. Kind of makes sense, although the only thing that he or any other installer has to do that is not rountine is add 50' to the existing line set and give me a few days between the tear out and replacement to prep the job.

Is that a better explanation?

[h2045]

I signed the papers yesterday to buy the Ruud equivalent (UGPR07EAMKR) of the unit you are asking about in your OP along with a UAPR030JAZ condenser and RCFLA3617B ID coil. That leaves me a little short for the tax credit which can be had with the same furnace and the larger 3/4 HP blower (UGPR07BRQR). This was originally pointed out to me by Mr. BaldLoonie. I did not go this route due to cabinet size & space considerations. But it can be had and be all RUUD. I did not see any `Inherent Flaws` noted anywhere.

[fenian]

"...Is that a better explanation? "

why don't you just ask him?

[Thebil Illpay]

"...Is that a better explanation? "

why don't you just ask him?

I totally missed this. Good question. Because I haven't had the opportunity since I last spoke to him. At that time he told me yeah it would work, and then went into at least 10 minutes of directly unrelated stuff. i.e. exploding water heaters... It wasn't until after the conversation that I realized that for some reason he doesn't want to do this install in this configuration.

Edit: And if it really is money on the table rather than a technical issue THAT is something no reasonable, ethical, honest person could bring themselves to say. So, I'll call the guy tomorrow and ask him, if he hems and haws, it's money. In which case I'd flush his quotes, which were higher anyhow but didn't matter to me, down the toilet.