Heap Pump Done after 5.5 years?!

[ecomst]

We have a rooftop York heatpump that is only 5.5 years old, and it stopped working. It still blew hot air, but the A/C didn't work. Eventually, when I tried to run the AC, the fan would run but it would short.

Shocker, the warrenty was up after 5 years. Worse though, we are being told that the unit is totally finished... that the compressor has shorted to ground, and that the system is testing positive for acid (unfortunatly, I have only a slight idea of what these things mean).

How frequent is something like this? I've been searching around the internet and don't see many examples this bad. Do these things add up?

I'm really worried about this happening again, so I'd be *greatly* appreciative if anybody could advise me on which of the two units they are now trying to sell me is a better purchase (keeping in mind that we have no roof access and they will need a crane to lift it, and that we live in Washington, DC):

1. Remove refrigerant from existing York heat pump unit in accordance with EPA regulations and prepare unit for crane lift. Provide a crane to remove and set new equipment.
2. Furnish and install one (1) Carrier 2 ton heat pump with 5 KW second stage heater, packaged rooftop unit M/N 50EZ-0240---3--TP 208/230 volt single phase.
3. Furnish and install new sections of duct as needed return and supply.
4. Furnish and install a programmable thermostat.
5. Reconnect electrical 208/230 volt, fused disconnect.
6. Furnish and install a new PVC condensate drain with trap.
7. Provide start-up and perform operational checks. Equipment supplied with one-year parts warranties and manufacturers parts and compressor extended warranties.

Excludes: Mechanical and Space permit cost and associated fees.

WE PROPOSE hereby to furnish material and labor – complete in accordance with above specifications for the sum of $
Carrier M/N 50XT-024---3 15.5 seer Infinity Heat Pump in lieu of 13 seer will check on Monday with Carrier to insure it meets tax credit EER/HSPF rating $.


THANKS for any advice!!!!

[beenthere]

I deleted the prices in your post.

No prices in post, Please read site rules thank you.

Did you get a second opinion?

Did you ask them if they could determine what was the cause of the premature failure.

[bmathews]

They don't go for prices around here. You need to get rid of them or somebody on here will. Units normally last longer than 5 years. Some do only last 5 years. It's a mechanical object so it can and will break. Have you had regular maintenance done on it and use quality filters and change them monthly? Or do you forget about them and they get dirty. If so, these will contribute to your premature failure. You could have had an electrical issue creating your failure as well. Replace the unit, buy an extended parts warranty at the very least. Maybe a labor one if you wish. Have it serviced at least once a year, use quality filters and change them regularly and install a surge protector on the unit. These will not guarantee you will not have failure, but it will greatly help you. If it happens again in 6 years, you will have the parts warranty to fall back on. Only buy the warranty from Carrier or whatever brand you purchase. Stay away from the 3rd party providers, due to the fact that they may not be in business in 6 years. I think our current economy has proven that nothing is safe.

[jpsmith1cm]

I have never dealt with a residential package unit like this, but I DO work on commercial equipment in the same size range sometimes.

You are out of warranty, but by NO means do you need a new unit.

The compressor can be replaced, the acid can be cleaned out of the system.

I am very suspicious of this.

Marvin is also correct in that a good maintenance program would serve you and your equipment well.

[RyanHughes]

Carrier M/N 50XT-024---3 15.5 seer Infinity Heat Pump in lieu of 13 seer will check on Monday with Carrier to insure it meets tax credit EER/HSPF rating.




It doesn't, unfortunately. Only the 3 ton does. The 2 ton Performance series (Carrier) rooftop does qualify.

[sktn77a]

You (we) really need more information to make an informed decision. However, you shouldn't need a new heatpump after only 5 years. Replace the compressor and clean and flush out the refrigerant lines (especially as this is a package unit). That should cost around a quarter the cost of a whole new package unit. You may need some additional parts that could have been damaged by acids but this still should cost only a fraction of the cost of a whole new unit (and won't need a crane)!

[jvillehvac]

Yes you could clean up the acid, replace the compressor, dryers, refrigerant. And it is all out of warranty. Your repair at best would probably only have 1 year warranty. And I dont know about this fraction of the cost, he must work for free.

[Springsdiver]

I would check referances and get a second opinion. The compressor could have been taken out by voltage surge (Lighting). A compressor and system clean would be a lot cheaper (equipment wise) and as far as install crane rental is not cheep.
A 5.5 year old system would have to be in a very harsh environment to need complete replacement.

[ecomst]

Thanks so much for all the feedback. Sounds like at least I need to get a second opinion. I live in DC and the weather can fluctuate wildly, but I don't think it qualifies as a "very harsh" envirnment.

On the other hand I wonder if it's just worth replacing the thing. If I would have to replace the whole unit sometime between 10-15 years anyway, maybe it makes sense to upgrade now to a more energy efficient unit with a long warrenty.

[Springsdiver]

Sounds like you have a plan, good luck.

[DGIO-Not]

If I remember correctly from my college days, DC does have a dirty power (meaning it fluctuates wildly, especially on peak demand days.) If do not have a phase monitor I would recommend one. (Whether compressor or unit replacement, very small price to pay for insurance.)

I'm concerned because I am not seeing what if anything was done to determine why the compressor went bad or why there is acid in the system. Did this happen in cooling or heating mode? Air Flow, Dirty Power, there just are some other questions here that need to be answered.

I agree with someone else's post: sometimes the repair is significant and your SIR (savings to investment ratio) could be going with a new unit and a new warranty. Especially if have to crane a new compressor, if I remember correctly those street closure permits with police help have a pretty hefty price tag all in themselves.

Either way, do not let them skimp on the time with the vacuum pump.

[ecomst]

I asked of course why it happened, and I was simply told that they had no idea. I was also told that it was impossible to clean the acid out of the unit, and that's why I would need a new one altogether. That doesn't jibe with some info I've found on the web--but on the other hand, what do I know? That's why I checked in with this board, and if I understand correctly I do have some reason to be suspicious (i.e., the acid should be able to be flushed out).

Not sure if it makes a difference, but the heat was working fine all winter, and then we went to turn on the a/c during the first hot day of the year and it was only blowing hot air. That's when I called them in...

[BobbyBJr]

Sounds like the heat may have been working due to the back up strips coming on and keeping you warm and when you turned on the cooling it did not work at all because the compressor was bad. We see that often in our area. In your case, I would have quoted a new compressor with clean-up and a new unit too, if you were interested. Then I'd have let you make the decision. I didn't catch the efficiency of your old unit, but it very well could be a good time to consider something more efficient and with a longer warranty. You might also want to check on manufacturers rebates and the energy tax credits which could offset some of your cost.

[DGIO-Not]

I asked of course why it happened, and I was simply told that they had no idea. I was also told that it was impossible to clean the acid out of the unit, and that's why I would need a new one altogether. That doesn't jibe with some info I've found on the web--but on the other hand, what do I know? That's why I checked in with this board, and if I understand correctly I do have some reason to be suspicious (i.e., the acid should be able to be flushed out).

Not sure if it makes a difference, but the heat was working fine all winter, and then we went to turn on the a/c during the first hot day of the year and it was only blowing hot air. That's when I called them in...

I will be honest, cleaning a system is not all that easy and straight forward. And even if a new unit is the way to go, we may have real issues with running a new line set given how your building was constructed. I am afraid a site survey is your best bet. However, do not feel at the least concerned about having a 2nd opinion or getting 3 estimates. This is a very real purchasing decision, build your confidence and trust yourself! You took a great first step, you asked those smater than you in this matter and we all agree...not enough information to proceed.

[heaterman]

I will be honest, cleaning a system is not all that easy and straight forward. And even if a new unit is the way to go, we may have real issues with running a new line set given how your building was constructed. I am afraid a site survey is your best bet. However, do not feel at the least concerned about having a 2nd opinion or getting 3 estimates. This is a very real purchasing decision, build your confidence and trust yourself! You took a great first step, you asked those smater than you in this matter and we all agree...not enough information to proceed.

Package unit so line set is not an issue. Get a second opinion but looking at it a face value, I would investigate the compressor change out option. If you are indeed in a "dirty power" grid, look into a voltage monitor, they are inexpensive and can save your unit from spikes and brown outs.

[rooftop tech]

I'd get a 2nd opinion and see what they say. Bad comp and acid though you may have to eat this one. In my experience the unit will never be the same again. Lots of labor involved in doing a comp change and acid flush on a roof. You lose a cond or blower fan, a coil leaks, control board goes bad in a year or two and you'll be wishing you replaced the unit. My sis lives in DC and had a contractor come out....with his kids to look at a repair. He wasn't sure what was wrong with the hp but gave a price on a new unit.

[Coolit]

Seems like a big jump to have to replace the entire unit due to a burn out on a compressor.

Compressor replacement with system clean ups are common.
With a heat pump - some may suggest replacing the reversing valve as well - but I have found other clean up methods to work effective enough to not need this.

Get another professional opionion for the replacement of the compressor with proper system clean up -make sure the contractor provides warrantee for the compressor as well as a good follow up check to the clean up process.:cool::cool: