Whats the real story?

[Justjoe3]

Hi all,
Looking for some pro advice from people that are not trying to make money off me. I am currently having local contractors bid on a a new system for me. Heat and air.

I have the first couple of bids in and I think the first two are lying to me. With all the tax credits and rebates going on right now I want to go top of the line. The Furnace part seems straight up. Both quoted me for the same unit (without me telling what the other one quoted)For the furnace they suggest a Carrier 58MVB80-16, 96%, 2 stage variable speed motor. From the research I've done on line this seems like an OK heater.

The problem is both are suggesting the Carrier 24ANA736 AC unit. Both told me this is an "18 SEER" unit. One of them went so far as to tell me that it is 18 SEER when both stages are running and it is better when running single stage.
this is where I think they are both blowing smoke! Everything I can find online for this unit says it is an Infinity 17, 17 seer at best and if I'm understanding correct, about 15.5 at worst.

So, am I wrong or are they lying to me? Is this a good unit regardless of if they are lying to me? Is there any reason anyone can think of why neither one of them recommended the Carrier Infinity 21? I told them I wanted the highest SEER possible as long as it is reliable.

I have 3 more contractors coming by next week to bid. One is a Lennox, Rheem dealer, the other 2 sell pretty much every brand but I picked them because they also carry Trane's and I want some inof on them too.

Any thoughts on brand consideration and whether or not these guys are blowing smoke.

If it matters I'm in Utah. Very low humidity summers average in the 90's, winters can be brutal. And for the record, not that I am going to tell anyone bidding on this job but price is no object.

Thanks in advance!

[catmanacman]

i would look at a Trane xl20i with twin compressors very nice system

[Edwin73]

I'm pretty sure that Nordyne offers a system that has the highest SEER rating at 23 SEER. See if you can find a dealer that carrys that. They are marketed under several names, one of them is a Frigidaire IQ drive.

[Senior Tech]

So 5 bids and more to come...:eek:

Good Luck.

[Justjoe3]

My goal in getting the bids was to get bids on different units and try to find out which is better and why.

[I_bend_metal]

Hi all,
Looking for some pro advice from people that are not trying to make money off me. I am currently having local contractors bid on a a new system for me. Heat and air.

I have the first couple of bids in and I think the first two are lying to me. With all the tax credits and rebates going on right now I want to go top of the line. The Furnace part seems straight up. Both quoted me for the same unit (without me telling what the other one quoted)For the furnace they suggest a Carrier 58MVB80-16, 96%, 2 stage variable speed motor. From the research I've done on line this seems like an OK heater.

The problem is both are suggesting the Carrier 24ANA736 AC unit. Both told me this is an "18 SEER" unit. One of them went so far as to tell me that it is 18 SEER when both stages are running and it is better when running single stage.
this is where I think they are both blowing smoke! Everything I can find online for this unit says it is an Infinity 17, 17 seer at best and if I'm understanding correct, about 15.5 at worst.

So, am I wrong or are they lying to me? Is this a good unit regardless of if they are lying to me? Is there any reason anyone can think of why neither one of them recommended the Carrier Infinity 21? I told them I wanted the highest SEER possible as long as it is reliable.

I have 3 more contractors coming by next week to bid. One is a Lennox, Rheem dealer, the other 2 sell pretty much every brand but I picked them because they also carry Trane's and I want some inof on them too.

Any thoughts on brand consideration and whether or not these guys are blowing smoke.

If it matters I'm in Utah. Very low humidity summers average in the 90's, winters can be brutal. And for the record, not that I am going to tell anyone bidding on this job but price is no object.

Thanks in advance!

You only get up to $1500 in tax credit....if you do the math you will see that the 30% you are allowed means that if you spend 5K on your furnace, it really doesn't matter what AC or HP you choose as far as the credit goes.

Now, having said that I am in Ohio....where if you buy something more than about 16 seer, you will never see the savings to pay for the added expense in the initial investment.....you need to have the salesmen that are quoting you break down what you are paying for each piece of equipment.....

A 96% variable speed furnace in these parts can easily go over 5K. This tax credit is only 30% of QUALIFYING equipment.....it would be rather easy here in Ohio for me to sell you a furnace that qualifies and an AC that doesn't and you would still get your $1500 credit.....

....clear as mud?? :D

[Justjoe3]

HI I_bend,

Yep, I read up on all the tax credit info. Didn't know if I was allowed to mention prices but The first 2 guys were within $500 of each other. Both came in at about $1 for both units installed including removing an existing swamp cooler and furnace.

Units come with ARI cert for the tax credit plus carrier is offering $1000 rebate, local gas company is giving $300 and electric also gives $300.

All said and done its $3100 in rebates/credits.

[I_bend_metal]

HI I_bend,

Yep, I read up on all the tax credit info. Didn't know if I was allowed to mention prices but The first 2 guys were within $500 of each other. Both came in at about $1 for both units installed including removing an existing swamp cooler and furnace.

Units come with ARI cert for the tax credit plus carrier is offering $1000 rebate, local gas company is giving $300 and electric also gives $300.

All said and done its $3100 in rebates/credits.

Yeah, better take your pricing out of this post.....I was just giving you a heads up on the amount you would have to spend to get your full $1500 credit....sorry about the confusion....

Here's the thing.....what kind of system you get really doesn't matter at all....

Every system is a good system if installed properly......

You are not only buying a furnace and AC but you are buying a company....

Buy one that is going to be there....for the long run.....treats you right.....answers all of your questions.....gives you the most for your money....check the BBB and Angie's List.....talk to people.....think of it this way......the next new car you buy.....would you want it put together by a highly trained professional or by uncle Joe who also mows grass in his slower times????

[jrbenny]

Don't put that price back in there. Thanks.

[Justjoe3]

Sorry about the pricein there..won't happen again!

I_bend...

That is one of my biggest considerations. Everyone coming to bid has been in business doing this for at least 30 years. I had checked all with the BBB before I chose who to call. I'm so glad you said the system really does not matter that much because it seems impossible to really rate them given all the variables.

I am however really bothered by the what I was told the SEER rating is on the recommended unit and what it says it is online. I don't view lying as a good way to start out.

[I_bend_metal]

Sorry about the pricein there..won't happen again!

I_bend...

That is one of my biggest considerations. Everyone coming to bid has been in business doing this for at least 30 years. I had checked all with the BBB before I chose who to call. I'm so glad you said the system really does not matter that much because it seems impossible to really rate them given all the variables.

I am however really bothered by the what I was told the SEER rating is on the recommended unit and what it says it is online. I don't view lying as a good way to start out.

It's all good.....you ask any professional on this site and they will tell you....lying is what we fight every day....find a company you trust and stick with them. Are you currently tied to any company?? Anything like a service agreement or scheduled maintenance or anything?? If you trust them, stay with them.....as far as systems go....pick something that makes you comfortable....just don't worry about what brand it is.....

[acguytx]

i dont think those guys are blowing smoke some systems can have condensers rated at 14 seer but with the right matchups they can be rated as high 16 seer after installed correctly,ive also seen the 20i trane unit only have ari ratings acheiving 17plus seer so maybe they are quoting you the 21 but after macthups etc it will only acheive 17.7 seer ...

happens all the time i see 16 seer rated condensers matchups not have any tax credits because they dont actually acheive 16 seer with the real world matchups..

the advice in this thread is correct,doesnt work in Texas with those 5k furnaces but obviously it would for you :)

[hivacer]

If price is no object then get a bid on water furnace. As far as I understand there is no cap on the tax credit for geothermal technology, So it could be very competitive with a top of the line air source system. Air source tax credit is limited to 1500 I think. You can also heat your water with the geothermal as well, and they have zoning technology.

[motoguy128]

If it matters I'm in Utah. Very low humidity summers average in the 90's, winters can be brutal. And for the record, not that I am going to tell anyone bidding on this job but price is no object.

Thanks in advance!

I'm not sure why you're focusing so hard on cooling. In dry climates, you need high EER. The 2 stage units are usually not any better in their EER ratings, they are often worse. Sounds like good heating numbers are more improtant anyway. Although I'm not sure what "brutal" is. Some folks in Florida think there's 40F winter temps are "brutal"... but laugh at a 80F day, when most midwesterners are kicking on the A/C. I thought Michigan was cold, until I moved to Iowa, it's even colder, dryer and windy here in January.

I'd save your money and look at a good single stage system like a Carrier Performance 15 or a Trane XL15i. Maybe even look at dual fuel or straight A/C and spend the money on a good 95% furnace instead of a 2 stage compressor.

Perhaps a pro from the mountains or Utah area can chime in on what kind of system is best for that climate.