Controls for smaller retail stores?

[slortnoc]

All,

I wanted to get your take on controls for small retail stores. 2 to 3 RTU's, maybe 2 to 4 zones of lighting. Possibly a cooler or freezer.

I work for a company that does a lot of industrial sites like cellular hubs and things like that.

We've had some success venturing into the commercial market. I know there are a lot of options out there, so I was hoping to get your take on it.

What kind of things do you look for in these types of applications?

I want to thank you all in advance for any advice you can offer.

[ddcfreek]

I take it your looking for a total package type of offering? What sort of controls do you use now?

[slortnoc]

ddcfreek,

I apoligize for the confusion.

The company I work for actually is a controls manufacturer. I recently joined them after working for a different controls manufacturer for the last 7 years. They mostly work with telcom, cable and wireless. We do small hubs and switching stations and things like that.

We have a few commercial accounts, but are looking for distributors and reps for the line. I find it is a lot easier to sell through a local distributor/rep, then to go directly to the end user. After all who knows their local market better than guys like you all here. We are trying to break into the commercial market, specifically smaller retail locations with unitary equipment, lighting, refrigeration...pretty much any equipment that can be monitored and controlled(like we do in the hubs).

I know this market has many control companies going after it already. I wanted to get the take on this market from your perspective.

I can talk to the facilities managers all day long, but you guys are the ones that are familiar with the rubber hitting the road. You guys know what equipment(controls) and what interfaces work.

I was hoping to see what you all look for in a controls line when you are selling or installing into these smaller retail facilities?

If a customer asks you to recommend a control solution for this type of application, what do you recommend and why? What would a line have to offer you in order for you to recommend it?

I'm not trying to solicit any business here. I have been reading this site for about 4 or 5 years now. You guys know your stuff and tend to not pull any puches. Any advice you have to offer is greatly appreciated...good, bad or indifferent.

Again, thanks for any insight you all can share.

[ddcfreek]

Currently we rep Honeywell and JCI. These are not the best of choices when going after the small retail store market you talking about. I would be very interested in what your company offers that might help us get into that market. Send me email, we're local to you so maybe we can talk off this site before someone get peeved...

[Control Man]

These guys sort of offer what your looking to develop

http://www.restaurantautomation.com/

[slortnoc]

Controlman,

That is a very impressive demo. The interface is really cool and looks really easy to use.

My curiosity is from the contractors side, is the hardware decent, is is easy to install, is it cost effective....I'm just trying to get a take on what you guys look for when you recommend something.

Is it the interface, because that looks really sweet.

I don't need specifics on any particular line, that isn't what I'm trying to do here.

I'm looking for you guys to tell me what you look for. Thanks for recommending that link, it was very helpful and gave me several ideas.

[Cagey57]

Hey, figured out your "name" finally, controls spelled backwards, I get it ! (wise guy). Similar to ddcfreek we rep JCI and Teletrol and are looking at possibly picking up honeywell.

What do we look at ? you ask. It is more like how do we make our available products fit the application. I suspect the main reason we (collectively) are not into the small comercial segment is because the people that own the buildings don't want to spend lots of money on infrastructure. Most consider "Building Automation Systems" as a frill when thermoststats will cost less and "do the same Thing" (not). The tenants don't want to pay for those kinds of improvements either.

Most of the projects we get involved in are in the 10000 sqft and above range. More than likely at that size people are more concerned about operating cost than first costs.

[bobby m]

http://www.lynxspring.com/snap.jsp

[Cagey57]

A Jace 2 by any other name is a "FX-20", WEBs200, Distech ...................

"TboxTboxTbox"

I gotta find out who started that on the forum so I can give em credit for the quote.

[Cagey57]

bobby_m,
ddcfreek and I can probably give you the equivalent part numbers for all the stuff on that site, different Mfgr though. TBox

[Control Man]

You have to REMEMBER 1 thing , it is not aways what we ( controls ) want or suggest . It is what the Customer can afford , the Engineer specs , Mechanical thinks might work and the end user is afraid of.

[Cagey57]

The lynxspring stuff look interesting. Sorta a cookie cutter AX with networkable stats. Hadn't heard of it/them before. List prices are higher than what we handle (by a lot). Of course almost nobody pays list.

I agree with Control Man on the bid spec side of it but in retro-fit/upgrade it requires that the (controls) contractor/service company be creative and fit the system to the application.

In that market (small comm) the (mech) Service companies tend to use what they know, programmable tsats, VariTrac, VVT, that they have access to. It is more the exception that a "Control Company" get involved in those projects at least around here anyway.

[slortnoc]

I really appreciate your point of view on this. It is one thing to talk to the facility managers, but another to talk to you guys who really know that advantages of a BAS vs wall stats.

Thank you all for your input.

[simsd]

slortnoc,

Who were you planning on having sell this stuff? Certainly not us I hope. This is definitely not something the normal controls contractor has the slightest interest in getting into. If you want to make it and sell it direct, then go for it - but I feel you are wasting your time trying to sell it to the contractor market.

[Cagey57]

Comparing Programmable stats to a full blow BAS is like comparing your old rotary TV tuner to the TiVo remote connected to a cable or satellite receiver. Almost light years apart.

Like simsd said "If you want to make it and sell it direct, then go for it"

Good luck on that !

[simsd]

Controlman,

That is a very impressive demo. The interface is really cool and looks really easy to use.

My curiosity is from the contractors side, is the hardware decent, is is easy to install, is it cost effective....I'm just trying to get a take on what you guys look for when you recommend something.

Is it the interface, because that looks really sweet.

I don't need specifics on any particular line, that isn't what I'm trying to do here.

I'm looking for you guys to tell me what you look for. Thanks for recommending that link, it was very helpful and gave me several ideas.

If you go to their website, you will see that it looks like they pretty much sell direct.

[jayhawker]

http://www.autozonecontrols.com/


Their target market is the buildings that fall between programable thermostats and full blown BAS systems. They have the best technical support in the biz. All the stuff they sell is always 100% backward compatible