Honeywell

[cmakowk]

I have a customer that has Honeywell EBS ver. 1.7.1
with XL100, XL50, ZM1, And ZM2 as field controllers.
The customer wants to get away from Honeywell because
of service.
First, are these field controllers LON.
Second, what would you recommend,?

[skwsproul]

Sounds like a candidate for an upgrade not a full replacement. The xl50 is now available in lon but was not lon some time ago that is what the zone managers do they take the lon or at the time e bus and translate it into c bus that the xl50 could use. Are there xl10's on the zones? Upgrade the EBS, remove the zm's and integrate the zones using a Tridium AX jace. I can not find a problem with HW's service unless it was the contractor that they are dealing with. If they absolutely do not want HW on the site anymore go with Johnson Controls, unfortunately their front end is Tridium FX which is owned by HW. There are tons of companies out there that can do an adequate job of this project but I would stick with one of the big 2, they will be here longer than the rest. IMO

[sysint]

If you decide to pitch the Cbus 100 devices (not manufactured anymore) and ZM's and maybe convert the 50's to LON and add replacements for the 100's I think I can recommend a product about 1/3 the cost of Tridium. So, it helps you on the replacement cost of the 100's.

[tlp261]

Sys - you have a lot of great posts but why does this site allow you to constantly make a sales pitch?

[sysint]

I guess I'll apologize. I always get Tbox, Tbox. That gets old.

Anyway, to me it's a solution. If you kill the 100's to go a different direction that's an expense. As an integrator that's the way I'd think. If I wasn't working for the alternative I'd still be bringing them up. I think if you looked at my old posts you would say I'm definitively consistent about that.

Honestly, I liked the 100's and the 50's. Probably I'd find a way to keep them first, but the poster seems destined to change.

Tell you what- the poster wants an alternative. Put yourself in my shoes... been here awhile let everyone know exactly who I am and represent. This is in direct contrast to all the other sales guys who cover up who they represent and sugar coat. Literally there must be over 100 of those guys here posting.

So, when they want a product change, do I wait until somebody brings me up?
Do I let him guess at a solution?
When somebody specifically asks me for info do I ignore it or turn it down?

I already asked for two ID's. One where everyone knew that their was obvious bias and another not where I could comment independently (turned down).

I guess it really comes down to whether or not you think I'm honest or not.

Anyway, to the site. I'm sure they review things. If somebody posts a point blank request I respond. Is it sales? Yep. Probably ends up that way. Is it also valuable information? It is if I'm honest about it and am being technical. Fine line. Probably crossed a little on that previous post with the 1/3 comment.

[ctrlguy]

I used to sell a lot of Honeywell systems like what you have and on a lot of them, I've gone back and replaced the XL50s and XL100s and eliminated the zone managers (good riddance!). Since you've got two zone managers, you apparently have a fair number of XL10s which are Lonworks and have plugins for programming in LNS. The reason I don't typically add a LON card to the XL50s is that it costs as much as replacing the controller with a new Distech freeprog, the line I now represent plus I don't need to use CARE anymore, opening up the system for the customer. I've been using Echelon iLON100s and SmartServers for the front end, though I'm about to try one of Loytec's LINX boxes to see if that's an improvement.

I personally don't have a problem with Sys advocating for the line he sells. Tridium is not the only product that's good at integrating systems and this site is full of people advocating for it.

[cmakowk]

Sounds like a candidate for an upgrade not a full replacement. The xl50 is now available in lon but was not lon some time ago that is what the zone managers do they take the lon or at the time e bus and translate it into c bus that the xl50 could use. Are there xl10's on the zones? Upgrade the EBS, remove the zm's and integrate the zones using a Tridium AX jace. I can not find a problem with HW's service unless it was the contractor that they are dealing with. If they absolutely do not want HW on the site anymore go with Johnson Controls, unfortunately their front end is Tridium FX which is owned by HW. There are tons of companies out there that can do an adequate job of this project but I would stick with one of the big 2, they will be here longer than the rest. IMO

So what I am hearing is the XL10s are LON and Zone managers are used to
translate XL10s lon to c-bus. The xl50 and xl100 are c-bus protocol.
In order to have a complete lon network, they would have to remove zone mangers , replace the XL50s and XL100s with newer lon versions or
Distech controllers, then use a LON compatible front-end.

Is this correct?

[tlp261]

So what I am hearing is the XL10s are LON and Zone managers are used to
translate XL10s lon to c-bus. The xl50 and xl100 are c-bus protocol.
In order to have a complete lon network, they would have to remove zone mangers , replace the XL50s and XL100s with newer lon versions or
Distech controllers, then use a LON compatible front-end.

Is this correct?

Yes. One caution though. You say there are both ZM1 and ZM2. The ZM1 would have been used with Series 1000 XL10 VAV controllers, which were TP-78 not FT-10 like the Series 2000 XL10 VAV used with the ZM2. You'll probably need a router to get TP-78 onto whatever new architecture you decide on.

[NINAX]

I guess I'll apologize. I always get Tbox, Tbox. That gets old.

Anyway, to me it's a solution. If you kill the 100's to go a different direction that's an expense. As an integrator that's the way I'd think. If I wasn't working for the alternative I'd still be bringing them up. I think if you looked at my old posts you would say I'm definitively consistent about that.

Honestly, I liked the 100's and the 50's. Probably I'd find a way to keep them first, but the poster seems destined to change.

Tell you what- the poster wants an alternative. Put yourself in my shoes... been here awhile let everyone know exactly who I am and represent. This is in direct contrast to all the other sales guys who cover up who they represent and sugar coat. Literally there must be over 100 of those guys here posting.

So, when they want a product change, do I wait until somebody brings me up?
Do I let him guess at a solution?
When somebody specifically asks me for info do I ignore it or turn it down?

I already asked for two ID's. One where everyone knew that their was obvious bias and another not where I could comment independently (turned down).

I guess it really comes down to whether or not you think I'm honest or not.

Anyway, to the site. I'm sure they review things. If somebody posts a point blank request I respond. Is it sales? Yep. Probably ends up that way. Is it also valuable information? It is if I'm honest about it and am being technical. Fine line. Probably crossed a little on that previous post with the 1/3 comment.

Do you get tired of hearing that 2+2=4 also?
Sorry, it does, even though you may want to change it to 2+2=4i.

Now that you have Schumerly admitted that you 'misrepresent facts', hopefully you can continue on your recovery path.

I have in the past, and do now, support you bringing alternate ideas that use the brand that you are a salesman for. But, your standalone faith in your product line is astonishing.

If you worked for me, I'd have to fire your ass .

[sysint]

Do you get tired of hearing that 2+2=4 also?
Sorry, it does, even though you may want to change it to 2+2=4i.

Now that you have Schumerly admitted that you 'misrepresent facts', hopefully you can continue on your recovery path.

I have in the past, and do now, support you bringing alternate ideas that use the brand that you are a salesman for. But, your standalone faith in your product line is astonishing.

If you worked for me, I'd have to fire your ass .2+2=4 and so does 6-2. It's just a different way to get a result. What I think that was borderline crossing the line was our 1/3 cost of your box. However, I didn't say it to compare directly against the Tbox, only to say you had some dollars available to changeout some controllers because of it. Probably I should have stated since our box is inexpensive you have more money available to use for programmable controller replacement.

[NINAX]

2+2=4 and so does 6-2. It's just a different way to get a result. What I think that was borderline crossing the line was our 1/3 cost of your box. However, I didn't say it to compare directly against the Tbox, only to say you had some dollars available to changeout some controllers because of it. Probably I should have stated since our box is inexpensive you have more money available to use for programmable controller replacement.

Nice Schumerization. If things keep going as they are, you'll have a bright future in the U.S. Senate.

I'd still fire you, from sales. I'd put you back where you'd be really productive, back in/in charge of, the field.

[ps]

Originally Posted by NINAX
Do you get tired of hearing that 2+2=4 also?
Sorry, it does, even though you may want to change it to 2+2=4i.

Now that you have Schumerly admitted that you 'misrepresent facts', hopefully you can continue on your recovery path.

I have in the past, and do now, support you bringing alternate ideas that use the brand that you are a salesman for. But, your standalone faith in your product line is astonishing.

If you worked for me, I'd have to fire your ass .

I guess that would make you Rep. Barney Frank? :eek:

[NINAX]

I guess that would make you Rep. Barney Frank? :eek:

It's always a flaming homo that'll bring him up in that way.
You'll have to do your toe tapping, pursuing a homo fantasy elsewhere.

[davetec]

Sysint,
Just for your information the Honeywell XL100 is still manufactured and available in the XL100C model.

[ps]

Originally Posted by NINAX
It's always a flaming homo that'll bring him up in that way.
You'll have to do your toe tapping, pursuing a homo fantasy elsewhere.


Originally Posted by NINAX
If you worked for me, I'd have to fire your ass

Touched a nerve I see, but your words - your fantasy. You've been accused of this before - is that why you're so defensive?

True to form - you can give it but you still can't take it. Why is your characterization of Sysint any less offensive than my characterization of you? Why do your posts always result in you denigrating people and resort to name calling? This forum used to be interesting and informative before people started hijacking to pump up their inflated egos - maybe it is you who should go elsewhere for satisfaction. I'm sure there's a place for you somewhere.

[NINAX]

Touched a nerve I see, but your words - your fantasy. You've been accused of this before - is that why you're so defensive?

True to form - you can give it but you still can't take it. Why is your characterization of Sysint any less offensive than my characterization of you? Why do your posts always result in you denigrating people and resort to name calling? This forum used to be interesting and informative before people started hijacking to pump up their inflated egos - maybe it is you who should go elsewhere for satisfaction. I'm sure there's a place for you somewhere.

Your trolling is way to weak to touch a nerve with me.

When I say something, I do back it up. I say it the way I see it. If you see it another way, argue your point. But we've been there before, haven't we?
Don't just sulk about it, like someone did about my question about the definition of native BACcrap. JCI Native BACnet Controllers (http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=182778)

And I'm sure sysint can handle himself without your nonsensical ramblings. But if I'm wrong sysint, please correct me. You might even want to consider staying out of conversations that are over your head.

[skwsproul]

WOW. I get a kick out of seeing opinions clash.