View Full Version : 1st time posting in this section, let me have it !!!
awsomeears
03-27-2009, 09:55 PM
I have never posted a Thread in here so I hope you enjoy it.....
My info :
I have been doing HVAC for 4 years, 2 years on a installation crew Me being the helper as they call it :p the last two years I have been doing Tune-ups and Service. When my partner Rob and I would be on a installation I would ask to do the sheet metal, some days he said sure why not and other days it was just to large of a job that needed to get done that day ( Thanks Mr. Salesman) So my sheet metal knowledge comes from doing it here and there, I think I'm average or above average by looking at the Wall Of Shame :D:D
The only thing I did not have were 1/2" unions, I will change these out next week.
Just finished installing all of this for my grandpa at his cottage, everything you see is Propane.
I did this installation all by myself with no helper/Boss/Lead man, I WAS THE LEAD MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Enjoy :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/bradjancarik/100_2588.jpg
As I pulled them out you could hear Taps being played in the Distance
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/bradjancarik/100_2589.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/bradjancarik/100_2613.jpg
:D:D:D:D
AC Shop
03-27-2009, 10:07 PM
That is a neat looking install! I like to see it when people take pride and clean up after an install. Having done service it will make you look at an install job from a different perspective. Good Job! Your boss should be happy but most important your customer will be happy.
jwiehagen76
03-27-2009, 10:10 PM
Install looks good. Not a big fan of copper gas lines
A1 Burt
03-27-2009, 10:14 PM
Look's like you did a very good job & that heavy duty stove pipe clamp you made is cool:cool:
awsomeears
03-27-2009, 10:18 PM
Install looks good. Not a big fan of copper gas lines
I agree but the whole cottage is copper, I guess you find more copper in propane homes. Not sure if it had to do with cost back in the 50's or just the easy way to do it.
BaldLoonie
03-27-2009, 11:10 PM
Looks good to me. Venting into a chimney or b-vent? Chimney lined?
awsomeears
03-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Looks good to me. Venting into a chimney or b-vent? Chimney lined?
Chimney is just a standard redish clay lined chimney, Water heater and furnace are both in the chimney if your wondering. Picture hides the water heaters elbows and pipe.
As far as using B-vent I or any of the guys rarely use B-vent, I would have to guess its code in certain states or applications.
green jumper
03-28-2009, 12:31 PM
Wow people were living in the house with a furnace like that?
Nice clean looking install
viceman
03-28-2009, 01:02 PM
grandpa must be proud of his grandson
BaldLoonie
03-28-2009, 02:25 PM
On chimneys: can get by without liner if chimney isn't exposed to outside, water heater involved which it is here, and inside dimension isn't too large. National Fuel Gas Code says: the flow area of the chimney cannot be more than 7 times the outlet area of the smallest draft hood appliance. So that 3" WH has 7 sq inch draft hood outlet, the inside tile liner can't be more than 49 sq inches to comply. Also the tables require b-vent from furnace to chimney. That is to do it by the book.
scottsacavsfan
03-28-2009, 03:26 PM
Next time get someone to help you carry the tank in:D
(What? you didnt think I would see the dent in the bottom left corner from bouncing it down the steps):D
Nice job man show thos pics to the neighbors and try on the salesman hat
hvac248
03-28-2009, 03:40 PM
On chimneys: can get by without liner if chimney isn't exposed to outside, water heater involved which it is here, and inside dimension isn't too large. National Fuel Gas Code says: the flow area of the chimney cannot be more than 7 times the outlet area of the smallest draft hood appliance. So that 3" WH has 7 sq inch draft hood outlet, the inside tile liner can't be more than 49 sq inches to comply. Also the tables require b-vent from furnace to chimney. That is to do it by the book.
nice work, study your GAMA tables baldi's right!
papa_jo
03-28-2009, 03:55 PM
were does the t/p vavle drain to?? the floor ??
o NICE JOB
clintkennon
03-28-2009, 03:58 PM
Everyone's a critic. I think it looks good, Id be proud of it too.
hvac248
03-28-2009, 06:30 PM
Everyone's a critic. I think it looks good, Id be proud of it too.
not trying to be a critic here,just advice to a future great mechanic.:D
just when you think you know everything about your trade, you wake-up the next day and learn something new!!! thats what makes this job so cool!!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
awsomeears
03-28-2009, 06:36 PM
grandpa must be proud of his grandson
This was also done as a surprise :D since this cottage is a spring/summer/fall home he wasn't around while I was doing the work. He knew I was going to do it sometime in 09'
I just got back from telling him the good news, he was shocked and now he can't wait to get up there and check it out.
Skip 2 my lou
03-28-2009, 07:05 PM
Good looking job.
Is that a copper gas line that feeds the black pipe for the furnace? The only other tweak I could come up with was the radius 90 connecting to the furnace. It doesn't appear to have turning vanes. (picky I know) You could of raised the furnace up on a 24" return air can and used a 5" pleated media filter.
Overall space was tight and you made the most of the situation.
awsomeears
03-28-2009, 07:38 PM
Good looking job.
Is that a copper gas line that feeds the black pipe for the furnace? The only other tweak I could come up with was the radius 90 connecting to the furnace. It doesn't appear to have turning vanes. (picky I know) You could of raised the furnace up on a 24" return air can and used a 5" pleated media filter.
Overall space was tight and you made the most of the situation.
Personally I think 1" filters are absolutely horrible for any application, although I do like Dynamics and have been proven at the homes I have pitched and installed them :D
Seeing as this furnace is only used spring and fall a 1" filter is GOLDEN :p
Yea its copper 1/2" line, allot of the cottages around here are all copper.
skr0oface
03-29-2009, 03:09 AM
Really impressive. Big difference will be felt on the gas bills.
For a time I used to install HWT solo and dented a couple [it's inevitable]. I got lucky where I put my hand inside between the tank and the shell and popped it out. If it was too far I put a screw in the dent and pulled on it to come out, then tighten the screw it and it looks better.
Let me ask you, when you purchase the appliance does it come LP ready or did the vendor sell you an LP conversion kit for you to install?
Skip 2 my lou
03-29-2009, 09:49 AM
Personally I think 1" filters are absolutely horrible for any application, although I do like Dynamics and have been proven at the homes I have pitched and installed them :D
Seeing as this furnace is only used spring and fall a 1" filter is GOLDEN :p
Yea its copper 1/2" line, allot of the cottages around here are all copper.
Codes are different everywhere you go. If you have a copper gas line here, when you upgrade the furnace you have to upgrade the gas line. It is a code violation to simply connect the new furnace. This has caused many of the HVAC contractors to get their plumbing license.
Sharp Snips
03-29-2009, 10:13 AM
Nice job!
In regards to the old furnace, that didn't look that bad at all. I have pulled a few out that caved in on themselves from being so rusty from some type of urine, be it human or animal...nasty, nasty business.
Well done again.
You should make a nice cover for the filter. Our resi guys usually make a bigger drive cleat.....but leave the bends loose. Then you can bend a drive around the filter and slide the cover over it.
Looks good though.
Should use b-vent though. Especially when it sems like this install is in the living space where the chance of somebody getting burned is there.
universaltech
04-05-2009, 03:56 AM
Everyone's a critic. I think it looks good, Id be proud of it too.
I couldn't agree more!
Nice job on the install man, keep up the good work!
adamc
04-06-2009, 06:43 PM
clean job but i agree wilh loonie bvent shoould be usesd as well as a chimmney liner dont trust old masonary chimmneys great job all around.
awsomeears
04-06-2009, 06:52 PM
clean job but i agree wilh loonie bvent shoould be usesd as well as a chimmney liner dont trust old masonary chimmneys great job all around.
I agree with Loonie also, the chimneys top is different then 99% of the homes out there. It has a decorative top on it that molds into the fire place, they are separate of course.
I couldn't even drop a 5" liner down due to the concrete decorative cap, its hard to explain :D
viceman
04-06-2009, 06:57 PM
what did pap have to say ?
awsomeears
04-06-2009, 07:26 PM
what did pap have to say ?
He was in total shock !!!
Him and I are going up to the cottage ( we refer it to as Up North ) this Wednesday to turn the water on and check for leaks lol.
This place is closed late Oct. and Opened right around now, so stuff shifts up there and does what it does.
The lake is about 20 feet from the basement :D
He hasn't even seen it, I think he might shed a tear to see what I turned it into I CAN'T WAIT !!!
2hot2coolme
04-07-2009, 08:42 AM
By yourself...? Then who took the picture of you and your awesome ears? :D
C'mon man you need to give your helper some kind of credit....
awsomeears
04-07-2009, 10:39 AM
By yourself...? Then who took the picture of you and your awesome ears? :D
C'mon man you need to give your helper some kind of credit....
I would like to give thanks to the 10 second auto timer :D
gasguy
04-07-2009, 10:23 PM
NIce looking install. Other than the b-vent connectors & filter cover mentioned before I give it an A-. Looks like you take pride in your work, and you'll only get better with time. Keep it up! :D
Around here alot of LP systems are run in copper. As long as there are no concealed fittings and protection is added where penetrating top/bottom plates I have no problems with it. Sure is faster to bend & flare copper than thread BIP. Does Payne give you a LPS as part of the conversion kit? I've done several conversions on 90% Carrier & Bryant units and they all had one.
awsomeears
04-07-2009, 10:45 PM
Does Payne give you a LPS as part of the conversion kit? I've done several conversions on 90% Carrier & Bryant units and they all had one.
Yea it was something along the lines of KZ4blah blah blah kit, the kit was for any Payne,Bryant or Carrier. It did come with a LPS and you had to hook up to the pressure switch and what not.
awsomeears
04-09-2009, 12:04 AM
Good news my grandpa and I turned on the water and I had no leaks, Probably did at least 80 solder points. I ran some 1/2" copper to the cottage next door that was built in the 30's that never had HOT water. I used 1/2" because in the tight spaces we have up there its just easier, plus my buddy had sticks and sticks laying around. $15 bucks for a crap load of good copper you can't go wrong.
I was very surprise and I will admit I was dancing and doing some white guy shuffle when I turned on the HOT water, the pressure was Pretty Dam GOOD !!!
My grandpa was very proud of me and gave me a hug, next step is the LP company has to run some 5/8" line from the tank in the home. Total BTU in Demand is the Payne @ 75k and the hot water heater @ 35k
110k and with the length of the run from furnace to the tank out side I think 5/8" could handle 160-180BTU, so more then enough !!!
The guy from Ferrell LP had a neat slide chart similar to Refrigerant charts.
natchagas
04-10-2009, 08:23 PM
Very clean install you should be proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jprince
04-24-2009, 05:43 PM
Nice work.
awsomeears
09-27-2009, 01:01 AM
Well its September and the Furnace is being used, my grandpa said its so nice to have a furnace that heats up and blows strong !!!
One thing I'm really shocked on is the Rhreem HWH, it is set on LOW and still puts out some HOT A$$ water.
Then again LP burns hotter :)
hvac wiz 79
10-02-2009, 12:00 AM
You should make a nice cover for the filter. Our resi guys usually make a bigger drive cleat.....but leave the bends loose. Then you can bend a drive around the filter and slide the cover over it.
Looks good though.
Should use b-vent though. Especially when it sems like this install is in the living space where the chance of somebody getting burned is there.
my thoughts 2
Outside return radius equals nothing, as far as reducing static,inside radius does. May be okay, need more info. to tell.
Outside return radius equals nothing, as far as reducing static,inside radius does. May be okay, need more info. to tell.
Got that right!
Cook Fans has a demo that they show to customers. It was VERY informative. I would have never guessed that a radius heel/square throat elbow was that restrictive. It was damn near as crappy as a square elbow with no turning veins. Even the difference between a 1x throat radius elbow and a square elbow with veins was not what I expected. I though the sq. elbow with veins would have been a lot colser in performance. Even a rad. elbow with a 1/2x (or even 1/3x in SOME cases) throat rad. performed better than everything else.
awsomeears
10-04-2009, 03:54 AM
I agree with you guys %100 !!!
This install was for a 52' cottage so it is the most top of the line item in the whole place.
Inside radius is the key for AIR FLOW/CFM !!!
I actually went to a class 2 years ago and had a test on return boots, myself and another guy agreed on inside radius vs outside ( 20 other guys ) and the teacher said you two are the Smartest in the Class !!!
I laughed but he was serious !!!
With these new DC motors return air flow is the KEY !!! the TQ these things put out is unreal.
stoopid_monkey
10-04-2009, 10:40 PM
looks pretty good
cbservices
10-06-2009, 08:19 PM
looks good
tinmam5959
10-10-2009, 12:11 PM
SHOULD HAVE TOOK YOUR TRANSITION UP MORE TO THE TOP LOOKS GOOD:patriot:
Mikeski
12-10-2009, 08:53 PM
Nice Job
snowball
12-12-2009, 11:58 AM
LOOKS GREAT,VERY CLEAN
CynicX
12-14-2009, 09:30 AM
Is it or is it not code to not combined a induced draft vented appliance and a natural vent appliance in a common flue?
Install looks good, esp done by yourself.
jzink0883
06-09-2010, 07:31 PM
CynicX asked: Is it or is it not code to not combined a induced draft vented appliance and a natural vent appliance in a common flue?
The answer is: Per the venting tables it depends on input to each appliance; diameter, rise, run and type of connector for each appliance; diameter, height, type of material used for the common flue, and whether or not a liner is used.
Thanks,
Joel Zink
Please put your email in your profile, no emails are allowed in posts, Thanks!
Install looks good. Not a big fan of copper gas lines
At least the drip leg will catch the sulphur scale, maybe. That copper gets brittle with age and can crack at the flare fittings.
CynicX asked: Is it or is it not code to not combined a induced draft vented appliance and a natural vent appliance in a common flue?
The answer is: Per the venting tables it depends on input to each appliance; diameter, rise, run and type of connector for each appliance; diameter, height, type of material used for the common flue, and whether or not a liner is used.
Thanks,
Joel Zink
Wouldn't pass code here. Would have to be B vent all the way out the roof for each one. No chimneys can be used lined or unlined. That leads to a lot of 90+ sales.
Nice looking job BTW.
jzink0883
06-12-2010, 01:42 PM
Wouldn't pass code here. Would have to be B vent all the way out the roof for each one. No chimneys can be used lined or unlined. That leads to a lot of 90+ sales.
Nice looking job BTW.
That's a strict local code. Where are you located?
Last summer, I replaced my standing pilot furnace with an 80+ (Comfortmaker). My comments were based on the venting requirements that were in the installation manual. I did use 100% B-vent to connect the the furnace and the water heater to my exisitng B-vent flue.
I have had diffculty getting guidance from the equipment manufacturers on performing combustion tests on 100% B-vent systems.
Questions:
-Does your local code allow the use of a single-wall adapter to connect the B-vent to the appliance?
-If the local code does not allow the single-wall adapter, where do you insert the probe of the combustion analyzer?
Thanks,
Joel Zink
Please put email in profile
awsomeears
06-20-2010, 12:58 AM
Dam 4,xxx views and 4 pages !!!
Thanks guys I really appreciate all the good comments and few tips, I wasn't expecting all the much out of this thread.
Glad I posted it
:-)
hearthman
06-21-2010, 09:11 PM
Since you changed from a draft hood appliance to a fan assisted, you changed the efficiency therefore it triggered a Level II inspection of the chimney. Had this been done, I'm sure it would have indicated a listed chimney liner is required.
I would have used a lowboy water heater so you can get some vent rise before manifolding in with the furnace. The gas code charts start with a 12" vent rise. If you read the charts on sizing the vent connector, I think you'll see you are probably undersized esp. with that short vent rise. The connector needs better support at the 1st offset and every 3 feet. With a fan assisted CAT I furnace, you will need to use B-vent as your connector to a listed liner. As for the chimney cap, it must be removed if it obstructs the flue from inspection or if it is restrictive. If you need a liner and cannot get one down, then don't do the install--either call a chimney pro or upsell to a CAT IV.
The foam insulation on the water pipes appear to be within the 6" clearance to combustibles off that single walled vent connector.
You are allowed to common vent a CAT I water heater with a CAT I furnace according to the IRC but it isn't a good idea. You see, if the chimney became blocked, which btw sounds rather easy to do in your case, the furnace could vent right out the draft hood of the WH without tripping any of the three primary safety controls--vacuum switch, high limit switch and flame rollout switch.
Check your clearances to combustibles in that space--it looks to be an alcove.
Check your makeup air.
Is your return sealed within 10 feet of the unit? That filter rack needs a tight fitting cover or a roll of foil tape.
If that room is habitable, the WH would need a pan piped to a drain. The TPR cannot discharge into this pan and must have an airgap but terminate within 6" of the floor.
Guys, they are called "sediment traps" ---not drip legs. If your local utility states there is less than 0.3 gr H2S per 100 scf then copper is ok to use. Yes, you need to go back and install ground unions btw the shutoff and appliance.
Looks nice and clean--a definite improvement!
HTH,
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