N2 TEC2101-3 Thermostat

[chewlak]

We recently had a lightning strike at one of our building complexes onsite. We lost an NCM350, several DX9100s, a couple of UNTs, a mcquay microtech board (brought in through an integrator) and a TEC2101-3. Everything has been replaced except for the mcquay board.

I am getting an error in the NCM "Input buffer overrun, msg longer than maximum device expects to receive, arg = user_return_type". The arg is 49 which just so happens to be the N2 address of the TEC2101-3. Looking at the history of the zone temp from the TEC, we see that the value goes unreliable frequently, but for less than a minute. The zone temp is an analog data point with an associated input from the TEC CS object, as recommended in the TEC installation manual.

Does anyone have any ideas? Should we return/replace the TEC?

[berg2666]

We recently had a lightning strike at one of our building complexes onsite. We lost an NCM350, several DX9100s, a couple of UNTs, a mcquay microtech board (brought in through an integrator) and a TEC2101-3. Everything has been replaced except for the mcquay board.

I am getting an error in the NCM "Input buffer overrun, msg longer than maximum device expects to receive, arg = user_return_type". The arg is 49 which just so happens to be the N2 address of the TEC2101-3. Looking at the history of the zone temp from the TEC, we see that the value goes unreliable frequently, but for less than a minute. The zone temp is an analog data point with an associated input from the TEC CS object, as recommended in the TEC installation manual.

Does anyone have any ideas? Should we return/replace the TEC?

Yes return it it has an extra 2ms transmission that is causing the error. I will look up the solution for you because I can not remeber what size the capacitor is to add to the N2 trunk to fix this....

[nwassers]

.047 micro farad capacitor is the size your looking for.

[chewlak]

I have ordered the capacitors. We'll see if that fixes my problem.

The date code on this thermostat is outside the range listed in the Product Update Action Notice for the controllers. No one from Johnson is willing to give me assistance. I called Milwaukee from whom I bought the device and they told me I have to talk to the local branch. The local branch wants to charge me for a tech visit. It certainly sounds like they still have communication issues despite the Action Notice saying they have been corrected. I also only have one thermostat and it is causing problems, despite the action notice saying the symptoms only occur if two or more are on the same N2 segment. I would think JCI would want to know about this.

[berg2666]

After you install the capacitors let us know how it goes.

[nwassers]

Well all of ours were outside the date code range also. But I still put them on some I even put on in parellel a 220 ohm resistor. Just keep experimenting there doesn't seem to be a solid rule. Remember to put the capacitor on both ends of the affected trunk. I also had some luck with repeaters at the 50th device.

[chewlak]

Replaced thermostat, still errors. Installed capacitors, quiet for about an hour, but now errors again. Any other ideas besides ripping out and installing a UNT?

[chewlak]

Has anyone used the GE22-N2 by NetworkThermostat? They say it is a direct replacement for the TEC1103-1, hopefully without communication problems.

Both NCMs that we have with TECs have reported these message alarms. We installed capacitors as recommended, but we still have problems. The problems on one NCM mysteriously cleared up earlier this month - months after the capacitors were installed (and no other work was done.)

[Cagey57]

Since your trying stuff, make sure that the TEC's (1100 or 2100) do NOT have overrides on both Heat and Cool setpoints. If you can, go reset all the setpoints locally and lock the stats. Then go looking for any commands on anything for the stats just to make sure. Had similar problems on TEC's with the date range (both NCM and FX-40), put in the .047 caps and still had problems. Finally found out the end user(s) were using command/adjust instead of override. Re-programmed all TEC's, locked em and busted password levels and the problems went away.

Newer TEC's will accept overrides on both setpoints but it's hit or miss which one is "In Charge", havent figure that part out yet.

"Are we having fun yet ?"

[exwtk]

Has anyone used the GE22-N2 by NetworkThermostat?

We have been using these ever since JCI discontinued the 1100 series and came out with the 2100 series.

The problem with the 2100 series stat was that from the front end you could not change both heating and cooling setpoint.

The GE22-N2 is an exact replacement of the TEC 1102 and has none of the problems associated with 2100 stats

[berg2666]

Any info of the ge22 n2. I hate them TEC's

[berg2666]

Replaced thermostat, still errors. Installed capacitors, quiet for about an hour, but now errors again. Any other ideas besides ripping out and installing a UNT?


UNT UNT YES

[chewlak]

Extwk,

The website shows the HP32-N2 as a heat pump thermostat and the replacement for the TEC 1102.

I will be ordering the GE22-N2.

[nwassers]

Will the Ge22-N2 work as a replacement for the 2101-3 tec's?
where can I find info on it?

[chewlak]

networkhvac.com or networkthermostat.com

GE22-N2 seems to stand for gas/electric 2 stage heat/2 stage cool with N2. They also make a heat pump 3 stage heat/2 stage cool with N2 #HP32-N2.

I was told this morning the GE22-N2 are backordered 4-6 weeks.

[exwtk]

There are 2 models
HP22-N2 is the replacement for JCI TEC1102
GE32-N2 is the replacement for JCI TEC1101 and TEC1103

These thermostats are identical to ones that JCI came out with.
Manuals are here:
http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.com/MET_PDF%5C6363155.PDF#xml=http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.com/search_lit.aspx?cmd=pdfhits&DocId=1878&Index=C%3a\inetpub\wwwroot\72.3.145.66\quicklit\ex caliburCD&HitCount=54&hits=a+39+53+60+7f+147+149+385+4cd+510+539+53e+5b6 +5bd+65a+69d+6cb+8c8+dca+de8+e0d+e27+e32+e4f+e64+e 69+e73+e8c+ebf+ef4+f41+12d0+12d4+12dd+12f3+130f+13 1c+133f+137c+1432+1443+1472+1628+1745+187d+19df+1a 05+1a58+1a61+1a6c+1a75+1aed+1af2+1cba+&hc=113&req=tec1100

[berg2666]

Acording to the pictures I seen they are TEC 1100 stats.

With another name on it

[CascadeControl]

I have a customer with the same problem. I have tried repeaters, the micro caps with no luck. They still go offline for a second about once or twice a day. I ended up doing a lot of JC basic to mask the problem.
I felt like if I replaced them with the 1100 series I would get all the 1100 series problems.

[zinc22]

The problem with the 2100 series stat was that from the front end you could not change both heating and cooling setpoint.

Yes you can write to all setpoints....you just with the old revision could not "override" both the heat & the cool at the same time. Only one of them.

This was however changed in 2007 & now both heating & cooling setpoints can be overriden at the same time.

The previous 1100 series had issues with overrides. Even if you called an override from the fromt end, a user could effectively change the value locally. It basically operated on last valid command either locally at the stat or at the front end.

The 2100 series, when you overide a point, the local user cannot change the local value & the override is still effective.

Are they perfect. No. But they do kick a good bang for the buck & overall offer a very good delivered cost compared to traditionnal ASC's.

As for the network issue(s), when you get to those type of problems you need to be able to use network analizer's & scope the wire to be sure something else in not inducing problematic things on the bus.

I have seen large installation with the 2100 N2's run flawlessly. But I also saw small installations run like crap also.

Just my 2 cents.