Leak Detector dye kits

[newoldtech]

I know some techs like them and some don't. Some say its messy and shouldn't be injected in a system. I'm more interested in do they work? I would like to know if you,

A) Have used them with good results,
B) Have used them with bad results,
C) Never used them?

Thanx!

[SmallBlockCoupe]

used them in school on a large walk in that we couldnt find what was leaking...
ended up being a pin hole size leak at one of the joints...

[fcs]

OK I'll be the first to say it

Only two things belong in a system Refrigerant and Oil

[beachtech]

OK I'll be the first to say it

Only two things belong in a system Refrigerant and Oil

i completely agree :)

[Pascone10]

i agree too, yet the new comp. i started at uses the stuff.... i said you better be marking them units so i know lol.. now i have to go buy a dye refer guage set:mad::mad::p

[Texas-Tech]

I had a man at the local Trane dealer tell me If I used the dye in an evap coil it would void the warranty.

[beachtech]

I had a man at the local Trane dealer tell me If I used the dye in an evap coil it would void the warranty.

he is right. the onyl thing that trane has approved for use inthier systems aside from refrige and oil is acid away. not acid scavenger, but "acid away".

that's it. anything else found in a returned part can and will void the warranty. don't ask me how i know ;) :(

[fcs]

I had a man at the local Trane dealer tell me If I used the dye in an evap coil it would void the warranty.

I've been told that by more then one manufacture.

I found a black light (Flash lite) will spot oil almost as good.

[jpsmith1cm]

I just don't get it.

How hard is it to find leaks with an electronic leak detector and a bottle of soap bubbles?

Even without an electronic detector, leaks are normally not difficult to find.

The first step is a thorough VISUAL scan of the system. Oil is easily visible as shiny spots.

After that begin methodically checking any threaded or o-ring connections. A smart place to start is at the TXV. Again, keep eyes open for oil.

If all the above is exhausted, then it's time to invest in an electronic.

I can't count the number of times that I've found the leak that I was looking for, simply by following the oil trail up a line to the leak.

On the teeny, tiny corroded evaporator leaks, use a GOOD leak detector to get you in the vicinity and soap up. Usually, with practice, a leak good detector can get you within inches of a leak.

Bottom line:

NO DYE! There is no need for it.

[beachtech]

I just don't get it.

How hard is it to find leaks with an electronic leak detector and a bottle of soap bubbles?

Even without an electronic detector, leaks are normally not difficult to find.

The first step is a thorough VISUAL scan of the system. Oil is easily visible as shiny spots.

After that begin methodically checking any threaded or o-ring connections. A smart place to start is at the TXV. Again, keep eyes open for oil.

If all the above is exhausted, then it's time to invest in an electronic.

I can't count the number of times that I've found the leak that I was looking for, simply by following the oil trail up a line to the leak.

On the teeny, tiny corroded evaporator leaks, use a GOOD leak detector to get you in the vicinity and soap up. Usually, with practice, a leak good detector can get you within inches of a leak.

Bottom line:

NO DYE! There is no need for it.

i feel the same way!!!

just didn't feel like typing it all out , yet again...

[fcs]

Dye a good way of saying I'll be back to do what I should have done right the 1st time.

I agree blue bubbles and d-teck.

[hvacrmedic]

I think there's at least some degree of exaggerating going on here. I think anyone who believes they can find a leak the first time "every time" with an electronic detector and/or bubble solution hasn't been at this very long. Either that or they are sometimes calling false positives "the leak", never knowing that that the leak was the neighbor kid huffing the freon out of the condensing unit, or just the fact that the last guy out adjusted the charge wrong, or the dryer was getting restricted. In these cases, the latter two of which are not at all uncommon, do you conclude after searching for two hours with the D-tek that there is no leak, or do you conclude that maybe you simply haven't found it yet and need to keep at it? How long do keep searching with that thing?

You have to draw a line somewhere in these cases "because" of the possibility that there maybe isn't actually a leak in the system after all.

Whether you use dye in the system or not isn't up to the manufacturers. It's between you and the customer. In other words there's nothing illegal and certainly nothing immoral about it. If it voids a warranty, then that has nothing to do with "is it right or wrong" but it has only to do with "will it void the warranty or will it not?" If the customer is aware of this possibility and ok's the use of the dye anyway, then why not? FWIW, for equipment that is already out of warranty, what's the problem? There is none. Warranty is the only issue with the use of dye. It's just oil, colored oil. IMHO, if the manufacturers didn't put such crappy coils in their systems I wouldn't be looking for the leak in the first place, so screw 'em. It's much harder on the compressor for it to run low on freon than it is to run with a proper charge and a bit of colored oil in it. And I think it's worth mentioning that Bristol does allow it, if you use their prefered brand. They also state that their selection isn't based upon that brand being superior, but rather on the fact that they don't have time to go around doing long term tests on every additive that ever hits the market. I think a bit of that kind of perspective is in order. Not knocking anyone for not using dye, but come on, it isn't like you've taken a 38 special out of the tool bag and put a couple slugs in the thing, is it?

I commend anyone who has always found their leaks without using dye. And on the whole it is best not to add anything foreign to the system if possible. On the other hand there is the business angle to look at. Do I spend two days tracking down a leak that may not even exist, or do I add dye. I will add the dye in the interests of keeping labor costs down for the customer, and in the interests of quickly resolving problems with thier system. It doesn't look good when you spend two days looking for a problem. Pressure and vacuum tests are also an option, which is typically what I do first. I only add dye when all other efforts have turned up nothing. That's on new eqipment still under warranty. If it's out of warranty I don't hesitate to put dye in it.

On the other hand, maybe some of you out there have found a way to electronically scan a buried lineset. I'm still having trouble getting that to work. The bubble solution doesn't seem to work either. I pour it on the ground and haven't seen any bubbles yet. :) Sure, some detectors are better than others, but no detector can find a leak that isn't leaking at the time, or that doesn't exist. And the perfect detector doesn't exist yet for 410a, or at least I haven't found it yet. Maybe I'm not holding my mouth right or something, I dunno. But again, if you can find it without adding dye, then power to you, and I commend you. :)

BTW, yes I know dye won't help with an underground leak either, just in case you were wondering. :)

[dec]

I'm not a biggy on dye because it is a little messy ( at least it was the first few times I ever used it .

I can say that it did find a few leaks that I never would have found without it.

It was cases where accessability was almost impossible, but with the dye and light we could spot the leak before things had to be torn out to fix it. In one case we could spot a leak in a small chaseway going 3 stories up ( it had been leaking for years and no shop could ever figure where the trouble was). Now we could have tried blocking off everywhere we could on that chase and hope a meter would pick up the refrigerant but we had the dye so we tried it ........... worked for us.

Ya I don't really care for the stuff being if you shine the light on yourself when its dark after you have used it ....... you can see its on you wether you used rubber gloves or not.

Any units that we have used it on have been running for years ....... never have seen a problem that it knock out compressors.

Now I'm talking about using it maybe 10 times in 25 years. Last time was probably a good 11 - 12 years ago.

Ok so I'm not saying I like it or prefer it over my meter, bubble solution, and nitrogen bottle but ............ it has worked sometimes where the other stuff didn't.

The carrying case is covered with dust , but I know where it is the next time nothing else seems to work :D


As others say , They would never add it to a system. If nothing else will find it and no other company could solve it , I just tell the customer .......... well If you want , we can try this, its worked before but its up to you :D


Either that or just tell them you didn't find it ....... ya want a whole new system or another contractor :rolleyes:

Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do, even if its a last resort :D

[newoldtech]

I think there's at least some degree of exaggerating going on here. I think anyone who believes they can find a leak the first time "every time" with an electronic detector and/or bubble solution hasn't been at this very long. Either that or they are sometimes calling false positives "the leak", never knowing that that the leak was the neighbor kid huffing the freon out of the condensing unit, or just the fact that the last guy out adjusted the charge wrong, or the dryer was getting restricted. :)




I agree. I have been at this too many years and have spoken to too many techs along the way. Only on the internet do you find super techs who can fix everything with either their eyes, bubbles or leak detector. :) I tried to ask a simple question by asking do they work and avoid the MUCH debated issue of whether they are good for a system or not, but oh well.

Having said that I do appreciate everyones input and I haven't decided if I should by a dye kit. :)

[fcs]

I think there's at least some degree of exaggerating going on here. I think anyone who believes they can find a leak the first time "every time" with an electronic detector and/or bubble solution hasn't been at this very long. Either that or they are sometimes calling false positives "the leak", never knowing that that the leak was the neighbor kid huffing the freon out of the condensing unit, or just the fact that the last guy out adjusted the charge wrong, or the dryer was getting restricted. In these cases, the latter two of which are not at all uncommon, do you conclude after searching for two hours with the D-tek that there is no leak, or do you conclude that maybe you simply haven't found it yet and need to keep at it? How long do keep searching with that thing?

You have to draw a line somewhere in these cases "because" of the possibility that there maybe isn't actually a leak in the system after all.

Whether you use dye in the system or not isn't up to the manufacturers. It's between you and the customer. In other words there's nothing illegal and certainly nothing immoral about it. If it voids a warranty, then that has nothing to do with "is it right or wrong" but it has only to do with "will it void the warranty or will it not?" If the customer is aware of this possibility and ok's the use of the dye anyway, then why not? FWIW, for equipment that is already out of warranty, what's the problem? There is none. Warranty is the only issue with the use of dye. It's just oil, colored oil. IMHO, if the manufacturers didn't put such crappy coils in their systems I wouldn't be looking for the leak in the first place, so screw 'em. It's much harder on the compressor for it to run low on freon than it is to run with a proper charge and a bit of colored oil in it. And I think it's worth mentioning that Bristol does allow it, if you use their prefered brand. They also state that their selection isn't based upon that brand being superior, but rather on the fact that they don't have time to go around doing long term tests on every additive that ever hits the market. I think a bit of that kind of perspective is in order. Not knocking anyone for not using dye, but come on, it isn't like you've taken a 38 special out of the tool bag and put a couple slugs in the thing, is it?

I commend anyone who has always found their leaks without using dye. And on the whole it is best not to add anything foreign to the system if possible. On the other hand there is the business angle to look at. Do I spend two days tracking down a leak that may not even exist, or do I add dye. I will add the dye in the interests of keeping labor costs down for the customer, and in the interests of quickly resolving problems with thier system. It doesn't look good when you spend two days looking for a problem. Pressure and vacuum tests are also an option, which is typically what I do first. I only add dye when all other efforts have turned up nothing. That's on new eqipment still under warranty. If it's out of warranty I don't hesitate to put dye in it.

On the other hand, maybe some of you out there have found a way to electronically scan a buried lineset. I'm still having trouble getting that to work. The bubble solution doesn't seem to work either. I pour it on the ground and haven't seen any bubbles yet. :) Sure, some detectors are better than others, but no detector can find a leak that isn't leaking at the time, or that doesn't exist. And the perfect detector doesn't exist yet for 410a, or at least I haven't found it yet. Maybe I'm not holding my mouth right or something, I dunno. But again, if you can find it without adding dye, then power to you, and I commend you. :)

BTW, yes I know dye won't help with an underground leak either, just in case you were wondering. :)



Please give me a creditable source were it recommends the use of dye.


No it's not illegal just like beer can cold, or not pulling a vacuum to 500 or 250 micron.

I would tell my costumer that this is NOT consider a good practice by the industry have them sign a wavier.


I have more then once found a leak that someone missed with dye or said they'll be back to check it, ha right.

Again a black light will spot the oil just as well as dye.

[fcs]

I agree. I have been at this too many years and have spoken to too many techs along the way. Only on the internet do you find super techs who can fix everything with either their eyes, bubbles or leak detector. :) I tried to ask a simple question by asking do they work and avoid the MUCH debated issue of whether they are good for a system or not, but oh well.

Having said that I do appreciate everyones input and I haven't decided if I should by a dye kit. :)

I don't think anyone is saying they have never misses a leak. or they (I) a "Super Tech". Just that dye is bad practice and not recommended.

Finding leaks can be work.

[jpsmith1cm]

Well, I'm not claiming to be "super-tech" but I have never used dye, and I never will.

Have I found every leak the first time out? Nope.

Have I found every leak I looked for? Nope.

Have I found leaks that other techs couldn't and were ready to resort to dye or sealers?

YES!

With only my eyes, ears, an H-10 and soap bubbles. Occasionally, a torch, schraeders and a bottle of nitrogen was required on lineset leaks in pit piping.

[HVAC Teacher]

25 years in the trade & never needed it.

[hvacrmedic]

I don't think anyone is saying they have never misses a leak. or they (I) a "Super Tech". Just that dye is bad practice and not recommended.

Finding leaks can be work.

Now now. I wasn't calling any names, but you are on the verge of doing so here. Just relax, take a deep breath. :)

I think I said I few times that I commend you, or anyone, for not using it. If you don't like it, don't use it, simple.

I think it's a stretch though to insinutate that it's hackery when it is used. There are more serious things to make an issue out of than this, that's all I'm saying. It's a non-issue really, in the grand scheme. Now suppose, contrarily, you find even one credible study that has found YJ yellow dye to be detrimental to the system. YJ, whose engineers are probably smarter than you and I, state quite the opposite. Who do I believe, them or you? What are your credentials. Do you have a doctorate in chemistry or materials engineering? Have you actually done a study of this sort? What do you base your strong sentiment against the use of dye on?

Let's keep this on the level of a friendly debate. Truth is I don't care whether you piss in the system before buttoning it up, it isn't mine, and it isn't my reputation on the line. In fact it would just be more money for me when your installation goes south. Fair enough? :)

Let's look at it this way. Around the world thousands of people die unnatural deaths do to a miriad of causes. These are all much greater concerns than whether the guy down the street is using dye in an air conditioner. The economy is going steadily downhill, our 401K's have less value that what we've contributed to them. And these are the less scary things going on in our lives, in the world around us. I try not to even think of some of the things going on in this world, it's too horrible. Now here we sit and discuss heat and air related issues, and get so involved that it's easy to not only forget about what's really important, but at times do in fact become completely oblivious to all else. The smallest infractions suddenly take on the appearance of capitol offenses. This is called transferrance, and is pretty much the same thing that drives a cabby to walk up and shoot the driver of the stalled car in front of him. Afterward he's going wtf was I thinking? Perspective, perspective, perspective.

[fcs]

I didn't mean to be calling names Sorry.

Show me the report form YJ with a expiation chem backing it.

Know show me a Equipment manufacture that RECOMMENDS it as a good method, Or show me and RSES or ASHRAE article.

Article in RSES Journal Jan 2008 By Robert Scharinge Phd pages 34-37.

See page 37.

I enjoy these debate and lean allot I enjoy when creditable sources are showen I don't mind find out that I wrong thats the fun part.

Again Sorry if I offended anyone.

[fcs]

Hey speaking thinking it thought were Andy S and Marc O. for this decision?:)

[newoldtech]

These debates are usually helpful. Even if I don't agree with some, I usually learn plenty form knowledgable people and their experiences. I know the dye is a hot button for some thats why I was just interested if it worked if used. I usually use my D Tek and bubbles and if necessary nitro and also isolating components. That usually finds 98% of the leaks I search for. I was just wondering if this could be a tool I could use for the other 2% or so?

I've seen lots of companies that just condemn old equipment and sell new installs. I know thats an easy and profitable way to deal with a leak. I like to find all leaks if possible and was just curious if you guys thought this could help find a leak on what would usually be an older well out of warranty system.

[fcs]

Let's look at it this way. Around the world thousands of people die unnatural deaths do to a miriad of causes. These are all much greater concerns than whether the guy down the street is using dye in an air conditioner.



Perspective, perspective, perspective.


Trust me I truly understand this, My perspective is much different then it was 7 months ago.

But this Site has help me keep up my sprites in a huge way.:):)

Thanks to all.

[hvacrmedic]

Trust me I truly understand this, My perspective is much different then it was 7 months ago.

But this Site has help me keep up my sprites in a huge way.:):)

Thanks to all.

I'm sure you have a little more insight than most in that regard, but it's still easy to get caught up in trivialities. FWIW we lost a daughter to cancer 10 years ago, so trust me, I understand what you understand. My best wishes to you.

[fcs]

I'm sure you have a little more insight than most in that regard, but it's still easy to get caught up in trivialities. FWIW we lost a daughter to cancer 10 years ago, so trust me, I understand what you understand. My best wishes to you.

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter if you don't mind were was her Cancer and how long was her fight. Cancer is a beating that changes anyones life it touches.

I would have to say in some way it very easy with Cancer to get caught up in the trivialities at time , it take your mind off the heavy load.

Please understand if today is a Doc appointment I seem to alway get in a bad mood the day before them. And I'm not planing on great news today. The worst part is the fear.

Sorry got off topic.


On topic the RSES artical is good reading. I'd' be interested to hear what other think.

[hvacrmedic]

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter if you don't mind were was her Cancer and how long was her fight. Cancer is a beating that changes anyones life it touches.

I would have to say in some way it very easy with Cancer to get caught up in the trivialities at time , it take your mind off the heavy load.

Please understand if today is a Doc appointment I seem to alway get in a bad mood the day before them. And I'm not planing on great news today. The worst part is the fear.

Sorry got off topic.



It was Hodgkin's Lymphoma. It was actually my stepdaughter, but I was there through the whole thing. She was grown by the time this happened, two small children, one of which she had after being stricken. It struck a lymphnode just below her ear. There were several surgeries, but the form of carcinoma that developed was very aggressive. The doctor had given her 2 years, and it was 2 years almost to the very day. The hardest part was watching her every day pretending to be ok, taking care of her children and even everyone else around her, just like she'd always done, while knowing the actual misery she was in. She had great character and never waivered up to the last day. It was a terrible loss not only for us and the rest of her immediate and extended families, but for the community that she was very involved with. My wife, her mother, will feel the pain always. I know it's difficult for the patient, but just remember that there are others around who may not find it any less bearable.

[fcs]

My wife and son will agree with you and so would I.

Take care.

[coolperfect]

Bottom line if we are going to loose time and money its because of not finding a leak,no customer wants us there to put in gas every so often. These dyes have been out for a long time with no problems I have it in units for 10 yrs And the best part the results can be seen by the customer,which if cant be fixed puts the ball in the customers court

[beachtech]

Well, I'm not claiming to be "super-tech" but I have never used dye, and I never will.

Have I found every leak the first time out? Nope.

Have I found every leak I looked for? Nope.

Have I found leaks that other techs couldn't and were ready to resort to dye or sealers?

YES!

With only my eyes, ears, an H-10 and soap bubbles. Occasionally, a torch, schraeders and a bottle of nitrogen was required on lineset leaks in pit piping.

same here

a linset leak can easily be found by isolating the lineset from the system and nitrogen. that'll find your under ground leaks for ya too ;)

[mike h]

We have used UV dyes for about 15 years. There are dozens of ultraviolet dye/lamp companies. One company's UV lamp might not work with another company's UV dyes. So we went sole source with Spectronics www.spectroline.com.
From our experience it takes 36-48 hours for reciprocating compressors [and 3-4 WEEKS for centrifugal compressors] for the UV dye to ooze through every pinhole leak. I don't think that any UV dye manufacturer mentions that fact.
After you fix the leaks, you have to clean up the old UV dye with Simple Green cleaner.
The Spectroline dyes are an ucky flouescent yellow. Various shellacs, varnishes, paints, and glues will light up with UV light--> but it is a pale washed out yellow. Easy to spot the difference.
Spectroline does have some Universal UV dyes that are suppossedly good for all kinds of lubricating oils. Because we are conservative, we stick with the oUV dyes that only work for mineral oil, or only for POE oil.

[hvacrmedic]

We have used UV dyes for about 15 years. There are dozens of ultraviolet dye/lamp companies. One company's UV lamp might not work with another company's UV dyes. So we went sole source with Spectronics www.spectroline.com.
From our experience it takes 36-48 hours for reciprocating compressors [and 3-4 WEEKS for centrifugal compressors] for the UV dye to ooze through every pinhole leak. I don't think that any UV dye manufacturer mentions that fact.
After you fix the leaks, you have to clean up the old UV dye with Simple Green cleaner.
The Spectroline dyes are an ucky flouescent yellow. Various shellacs, varnishes, paints, and glues will light up with UV light--> but it is a pale washed out yellow. Easy to spot the difference.
Spectroline does have some Universal UV dyes that are suppossedly good for all kinds of lubricating oils. Because we are conservative, we stick with the oUV dyes that only work for mineral oil, or only for POE oil.

FWIW:
http://www.bristolcompressors.com/InfoDocs/PMB-08-002%20HFC%20Refrigerants%20and%20Lubricants.pdf

"While Bristol Compressors International has not fully qualified these additives, no issues were recorded with the limited testing performed. The use of these products is to find a known leak or remove acid from the system after a burnout. Based on evaluations, Bristol Compressors International believes that the benefits from the use of these additives to clean the system of acid or to find and repair a leak outweigh the risks to compressor reliability.

Acid Away (by RectorSeal) with 3GS mineral oil and POE oil

Rx Acid Scavenger (by Nu-Calgon) with 3GS mineral oil and POE oil

QwikFind UV Leak Detector (by Mainstream) with 3GS mineral oil and POE

QwikShot Refrigerant/oil Acid Treatment (by Mainstream) with 3GS mineral oil and POE"



http://www.emersonclimate.com/contractor/support/faq/faq_CopelandTechnical.shtm

"The long-term effect of chemical additives on refrigerants and materials used in the compressor are not known without time-consuming, rigorous laboratory tests. The use of most of these additives is strongly discouraged by Copeland and may result in voiding the compressor warranty. Application Engineering Bulletin 17-1282 states Copeland's position on additives. An exception is the fluorescent leak detection dye, AR-GLO®, made by Spectronics Corporation. For more information on this topic see AE Bulletin 17-1282"

[fcs]

FWIW:


"While Bristol Compressors International has not fully qualified these additives, no issues were recorded with the limited testing performed. The use of these products is to find a known leak or remove acid from the system after a burnout. Based on evaluations, Bristol Compressors International believes that the benefits from the use of these additives to clean the system of acid or to find and repair a leak outweigh the risks to compressor reliability.

Acid Away (by RectorSeal) with 3GS mineral oil and POE oil

Rx Acid Scavenger (by Nu-Calgon) with 3GS mineral oil and POE oil

QwikFind UV Leak Detector (by Mainstream) with 3GS mineral oil and POE

QwikShot Refrigerant/oil Acid Treatment (by Mainstream) with 3GS mineral oil and POE"

Interesting were did you get that I like to read more.

Thanks

[hvacrmedic]

Interesting were did you get that I like to read more.

Thanks

http://www.bristolcompressors.com/InfoDocs/PMB-08-002%20HFC%20Refrigerants%20and%20Lubricants.pdf

[fcs]

http://www.bristolcompressors.com/InfoDocs/PMB-08-002%20HFC%20Refrigerants%20and%20Lubricants.pdf



Interesting I was hoping it would give more detail, Maybe I call and see if they will give more info about the Testing

Thanks for the link

[Poodle Head Mikey]

I dare you to find a running-only shaft seal leak on a 3600 RPM compressor with a flex coupling the size of your head whirling around a few inches from your fingers with anything Except dye.

I have four H-10 leak detectors. The three 110 volt are the best I've ever found. Sometimes they are Too good. The battery model is good but the batteries have always been trouble.

I have nitrogen. I have Blue liquid leak detector. I have my eyes, my ears, my fingers, and my clever experience. And I have dye.

All are just tools and I use what I feel most appropriate to the situation at hand.

Dye can be messy but so can using the toilet. Just avoid Operator Error and either will work out just fine.

[jeremy-lvhm]

I dare you to find a running-only shaft seal leak on a 3600 RPM compressor with a flex coupling the size of your head whirling around a few inches from your fingers with anything Except dye.
.

LOL

PHM some of the guys here would wet themselves if they had to work on one of them yet alone leak check one!!!!

We never used dye that much at FES but thats usually because the seals were leaking enough oil at that point that we didn't need to find the refrigerant leak!!!



I will say this. I have worked at places in the past that used dye religiously and it works. Do I like it? NOT AT ALL.

Will I use it if need be? Yes. But its the last resort. There simply just are situations where it works to find the pinhole middle of the coil leaks. Big coils that is. Anything residential I believe can be found with a good electronic and some careful coil hacking.

I only condemn the guys that use it as the first thing to use. Oh you have a leak we need to hit it with dye now.

Some of us need to remember that there is more than residential systems that need to be leak checked. Try leak checking mack trucks wind tunnel coils with an electronic. Theres enough square footage of coil to cover a basketball court I'd say! Good luck!!

;)

[nratom45-70]

I have been in this business since 1985. I use bubbles, nitrogen, my eyes, and yes even dye. I've never had a case where the dye seemed to cause a problem or voided a warranty. I've even sent warranty coils back that had dye in them and never had the warranty voided, same goes for compressors.
A lot of the formicary leaks can be intermittent such as indoor coils on hps not leaking in the summer but when they become the high pressure side in the winter the gas escapes.
If I can't find the leak by other methods, I (with the customer's permission) put dye in the system and mark the unit as containing it. It may take a year for the leak to appear and I haven't spent countless hours (and the customer's money) chasing my tail. IMO, it's just another tool.

[jeremy-lvhm]

It may take a year for the leak to appear and I haven't spent countless hours (and the customer's money) chasing my tail. IMO, it's just another tool.

Well said. All joking aside there are just too many aspects to this business to condemn the use or condone it for that matter. Do I think residential systems need it? NO for the most part. Commercial and industrial units that are larger. It is quite possible that it may be the only feasible way. It is just another tool as said here and sometimes you have to use tools you dont like to get the job done.

Just how many customers are going to pay the numerous hours of leak checking on a tough to find leak when you can narrow it down to a few hours with dye when needed. Not too many. And as far as compressor warranties I think that would be the least of your worries if you have a system leaking that bad under warranty.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Is that you can say to the customer: want to see where it's leaking?

See that green glow? That the spot. See how many there are? And where they are? That's why you have to replace this coil.

[mdharris68]

I think that all newer equipment these days needs dye added at the factory. We also need to build plexiglass plenums so we can check the coil on every service call. They are so worried about the ozone depletion, but they are not making manufacturers build equipment that will hold the freon. (long term)

I bought a d-teck select and haven't had to use dye since I got it, although there were a few I could have saved a couple hours labor finding it. There is no pride in spending 4 hours looking for a leak that could have been found in 1 using dye. The stress of finding leaks gets to me. Contortion, repetitive beeping noise, and leak denial are big stress factors. Leak dye works, like it or not.

[EugeneTheJeep]

Dye a good way of saying I'll be back to do what I should have done right the 1st time.

I agree blue bubbles and d-teck.

I agree, It is a good way to say, I give up, gas it and run. I bought one at the request of a dry cleaner, it is hard to detect leaks in perk with an electronic leak detector. I should have just used it once, and put it in my shop. But I bought a second one. Now my techs use it as a crutch when they cant find a leak, I told them, use it only after all efforts have been exhausted, and the customer understand the leak is not fixed as of yet. I made it over 20 years with out it, sorry I ever bought more then 1.

[sidecarr]

When I started 16 years ago that was the only thing the shop I was at would let us use it was messy and if you were outside you had to use tarps to block out the light . dtek and soap bubbles are what I recommend . used to get a minimum of 5 hours to do a dye test .with my dtek and soap bubbles can find the leak and have it repaired . plus to use the dye you have to charge the system and add the dye and let it leak out . dye also wont work on a low pressure machine thats in a vacuum most of the year

[mark beiser]

I have and use 4 different electronic leak detectors, including heated diode, heated pentode, and infrared sensor technologies.
I have and use an ultrasonic leak detector.
I use Big Blue all the time.

I also have a Spectronics UV dye kit, one of the kits with the injector type cartridges rather than the messy inline type.
My most recent use of it was for a refrigeration system for a hazardous materials storage room.
After much frustration with electronic detectors not working in that room, due to traces of many chemicals in the air, and the 35º room temperature, ultrasonic not picking anything up, and not really being able to cover every bit of the system with Big Blue, I injected AR-GLO dye. 2 weeks later I was able to find and repair all the leaks the entire system, about 10, with complete confidence that no leak had gone undetected.

I've never been a big fan of leak detection dyes, there are some products that make me want to beat someone bloody for putting it in a system, like any of the visible dyes, but I'm willing to use Spectronics AR-GLO in certain cases.

I may be using it again real soon. I got a system back up and running last week that had lost 20 pounds of refrigerant. After pressurizing it with 230 psig of nitrogen, and a trace of R-22, I blew 2 hours looking for a leak and didn't find one. I left the it pressurized with nitrogen, and 5 days later it was still at 230 psig.
Sometimes leaks don't necessarily leak under all conditions. In those cases, nothing but dye will show you where it is leaking.

[soaker]

Spectronics would love to hear that feeback on their products. Please take a minute to comment to them on the Talk to the Manufacturer feature on hvacproductratings.com. It will go directly to the right person there.

[EugeneTheJeep]

I had a couple of leaky systems over the past few weeks that had UV dye in them. I found the leaks, but not with the UV light. I ended up using the sniffer and soap bubbles, never even got a glow from either leak. I have found leaks in the past with UV dye, but it is not 100% reliable even in locations that you can see with your eyes.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

When you saw no glow at the leak sites?

PHM
---------





I had a couple of leaky systems over the past few weeks that had UV dye in them. I found the leaks, but not with the UV light. I ended up using the sniffer and soap bubbles, never even got a glow from either leak. I have found leaks in the past with UV dye, but it is not 100% reliable even in locations that you can see with your eyes.

[EugeneTheJeep]

When you saw no glow at the leak sites?

PHM
---------

Of course I was wearing the glasses.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

I have seen leaks that dye wouldn't show. They were pinholes and apparently the existing dye was sprayed away from the leak site.

PHM
-----------



Of course I was wearing the glasses.

[EugeneTheJeep]

One was a pin hole rub through on a liquid line. The other was on a TXV outlet, the valve was in a deli case covered in ice, I told the customer, next time it runs out of gas, shut it down and defrost it, so I can look for the leak. I did not see a trace of dye on that nut, plus the element was rusty with a pin hole leak in the top. I easily picked up the leak with my sniffer and soap bubbles. I buy the one gallon bottles that kids use to blow bubbles.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Over the years I have used every kind of bubbling soap. But in the last few I have fallen in love with Big Blue. It amazingly sensitive and the foam it makes stays in place a long time.

PHM
--------



One was a pin hole rub through on a liquid line. The other was on a TXV outlet, the valve was in a deli case covered in ice, I told the customer, next time it runs out of gas, shut it down and defrost it, so I can look for the leak. I did not see a trace of dye on that nut, plus the element was rusty with a pin hole leak in the top. I easily picked up the leak with my sniffer and soap bubbles. I buy the one gallon bottles that kids use to blow bubbles.

[nratom45-70]

I also have not found leaks with the UV dye. I even heard one hissing once but dye did not show.

[firedup]

LOVE HATE RELATION ,MESSAY, YOU PUT IT IN IT FINDS THE LEAK,MUST BE ALOUDED TO RUN THRU SYSTEM 24 HOURS ALWAY FINES THE LEAK THE GLASSES HELP LOCATE LEAK :eek:

[aikenite]

I have used dye with mixed results.Seems like i've had more luck with Big Blue. Dyes are so messy and its so easy to spray it everywhere when you're removing you're hoses. I would only use it as a last resort but thats really what it's meant for.

[aikenite]

I was surprised to learn that Trane will void a warranty if you use dye to find a leak. Years ago i had trouble finding a leak on a fairly new temp star and i called the area rep and he came out with a yellow jacket dye set and a tarp and we found the leak in the evaporater coil. They gave me a new coil with no questions asked. I agree ; i use dye as a last resort.Sometimes thats the only way to find a leak. Its just as important that you know that a leak does exist.Thats where a little time should be spent before looking for a leak Dye does have its place in our buisness but like anything else it is not a fix all.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

They come out with a dye kit, find the leak, and then they void your warranty because the system has dye in it.

PHM
---------




I was surprised to learn that Trane will void a warranty if you use dye to find a leak. Years ago i had trouble finding a leak on a fairly new temp star and i called the area rep and he came out with a yellow jacket dye set and a tarp and we found the leak in the evaporater coil. They gave me a new coil with no questions asked. I agree ; i use dye as a last resort.Sometimes thats the only way to find a leak. Its just as important that you know that a leak does exist.Thats where a little time should be spent before looking for a leak Dye does have its place in our buisness but like anything else it is not a fix all.

[indy2000]

Leak dye is only 1 tool in an arsenal of leak detection equipment.

They are NOT messy, injection syringe style as apposed to the inline junk, and offer irrefutable evidence to a paying customer.........Its stocked in my van along with the big bleu, h-10, halide detector

[Bob Duvall]

I have used the injectable leak detector. No mess but had to wait till system leaked out again to go back and find leaks. The only problem I had with the glasses and light was when I looked at the A coil, all the lint on it showed up glowing too.

[TFoster]

Ive been doing this for years. Lately ive come across a problem of a leak in a 40ton package unit. I ve used almost everything to include a $9K Ultrasonic leak detecor to do avail. I am ,at displeasure forced now to used dye.

[Bob Duvall]

I use the Cliplight brand Optimax with the injector. I am sold on it when you can't find the leak otherwise.

[Peztoy]

I've used arglow as an absolute last resort. The mess that inevitably come from putting gauges on and off the system makes everything look like a leak. If no tag is placed at the unit the next guy has no idea he's spraying the stuff around when servicing the system.

[nchvac]

Rep for Spectroline told me that Copeland has approved their UV dye. He claimed that Trane talked to Spectroline about making a line of product just for Trane. May be true, may not, but I bet it is the truth. I think people need to worry more about the dye in their food than the dye in their A/C unit.

Bottom line for me is that if I can't find the leak, I have a possible solution to offer the customer, and I have a tube of dye that I can SELL! Before doing this, I have a Tif Zx, an ultrasonic and big blu.

Now, I want to ask the guys that say the spectroline injection system isn't messy a question. Are you installing just the amount of dye necessary for the system size, or are you pushing a whole tube in? Mine makes a heck of a mess, and I have almost decided to only install a full tube to avoid the dripage.
I also like the acid neutralizer tubes that work with this same injector tool. So that I don't have to open a new post, can someone that uses acid away tell me how many treatments you can get out of the $18 bottle, and if the product is a liquid? I thought about maybe buying acid away and filling my empty dye tubes. The acid tubes are about $8 each, so may not be an advantage to doing that if you can't get many treatments out of a bottle of acid away.

Oh yeah, was leak checking an Amana refrigerator and found that they use a rubbery sticky sealing material that looks like the dye under the light with the glasses on.

[TFoster]

I dont work on anything that small sorry ,but on larger semis i void system accwss the oil pressure fitting ,put slight vaccum on low side and instantly sucks it in , easy

[Twilly]

Twilly uses just for men dye and the ladies seem to like it.

[Moparmyway]

I also like the acid neutralizer tubes that work with this same injector tool. So that I don't have to open a new post, can someone that uses acid away tell me how many treatments you can get out of the $18 bottle, and if the product is a liquid? I thought about maybe buying acid away and filling my empty dye tubes. The acid tubes are about $8 each, so may not be an advantage to doing that if you can't get many treatments out of a bottle of acid away.



One small bottle is good for a 30 ton system. Basically I use 1 small bottle for each compressor on large tonnage systems. I use the vac pump to suck it in to the oil basin and dehydrate the comp untill 500 microns after adding anything. On smaller systems, I would use less, proportional to the 1 bottle for 30 tons. Great success with this ratio. Viscosity of Acid Away is just about same as alkybenzene oil.

[snewman24]

Twilly uses just for men dye and the ladies seem to like it.

How can they tell with that hat on??????? :p

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Does it last a long time or do you have to use it twice a week or some other inconveniently frequent interval?

PHM
------





Twilly uses just for men dye and the ladies seem to like it.

[nchvac]

Twilli never said where he used the dye. Hint: Twilli takes his hat off for no one, so you figure it out.

[snewman24]

Twilli never said where he used the dye. Hint: Twilli takes his hat off for no one, so you figure it out.

Oh My!!...you mean "down there?".....hope he isn't sending pictures over the internet like ummm.....Anthony Wiener......... :grin2:

[Poodle Head Mikey]

The man was hired to represent his constituents. Whatever else he is doing is nobody's gd business. The only allowable question should be: does he represent his constituents to their satisfaction - yes or no?

This is Exactly why most of our elected officials are rubbish - anybody with half a brain goes into private business, quietly accumulates a fortune, and goes about it under the radar and unmolested by the scumbag sensationalizing media that we tolerate and encourage.

Stay out of Wiener's private business and let him do the job he was hired for. If the voters aren't happy at the end of his term They can vote him out.

PHM
-------






Oh My!!...you mean "down there?".....hope he isn't sending pictures over the internet like ummm.....Anthony Wiener......... :grin2:

[nchvac]

Oh My!!...you mean "down there?".....hope he isn't sending pictures over the internet like ummm.....Anthony Wiener......... :grin2:

No, No, No! Twilly is way to smart to send out pictures of his "twilly".

[nchvac]

The man was hired to represent his constituents. Whatever else he is doing is nobody's gd business. The only allowable question should be: does he represent his constituents to their satisfaction - yes or no?

This is Exactly why most of our elected officials are rubbish - anybody with half a brain goes into private business, quietly accumulates a fortune, and goes about it under the radar and unmolested by the scumbag sensationalizing media that we tolerate and encourage.

Stay out of Wiener's private business and let him do the job he was hired for. If the voters aren't happy at the end of his term They can vote him out.

PHM
-------
According to what I hear, everything goes back to money, and then sex, so if you ask me, it seems that he has represented the people well if this is their attitude. I'm glad for him that he is proud of it enough to send out pictures.

Problem we have though too is that these leaders think they can get away with anything. Just yesterday we had a state senator stupidly brag in an open mic discussion at during a legislature meeting how he and another senator were speeding up to 145 MPH on an ramp in a new car over the weekend. They think they can get away with anything. That little story may just wind up on the NBC Nightly News before it is over with. I can't believe the jerks were actually laughing about it knowing they were being recorded, and already in front of several hundred people.

[HVAC-matt]

I have used it once on a small deli case that we just couldn't find the leak in. Made one hell of a mess.

[Moparmyway]

The man was hired to represent his constituents. Whatever else he is doing is nobody's gd business. The only allowable question should be: does he represent his constituents to their satisfaction - yes or no?

This is Exactly why most of our elected officials are rubbish - anybody with half a brain goes into private business, quietly accumulates a fortune, and goes about it under the radar and unmolested by the scumbag sensationalizing media that we tolerate and encourage.

Stay out of Wiener's private business and let him do the job he was hired for. If the voters aren't happy at the end of his term They can vote him out.

PHM
-------

I dont wish to de-rail this thread too much, but I must say that I would agree with you, except for the fact that for several days he LIED to everyone, every day, each time he opened his mouth. Since the day it was first reported, he LIED. My Union hall is in his district, which means he represents some of my interests, and since he so easily and casually kept LYING about the dumbest little thing, how can I or anyone else be sure that he isnt LYING at work, LYING on the phone, LYING to the other politicians (spit), and finally LYING to each and every household and business in his district.

I dont wish to vote him out, I wish his co-workers would do their jobs and get him out ...................... NOW, before he LIES some more.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

By his own fear and lack of integrity; yes. But also by the inappropriate question being asked.

I said on the first day it came out, that if it were me, I would have stood up hard and pointed and said: Shut up and mind your own business. If I send a picture of my dick to someone, it's their business and mine. Not yours. What the hell are you so interested in my dick for anyway?

Now does anyone have any serious questions or can I get back to work? We've all got real issues to resolve in this country and talking about my dick isn't solving any of them.

Next real question? Anybody?

PHM
-----






I dont wish to de-rail this thread too much, but I must say that I would agree with you, except for the fact that for several days he LIED to everyone, every day, each time he opened his mouth. Since the day it was first reported, he LIED. My Union hall is in his district, which means he represents some of my interests, and since he so easily and casually kept LYING about the dumbest little thing, how can I or anyone else be sure that he isnt LYING at work, LYING on the phone, LYING to the other politicians (spit), and finally LYING to each and every household and business in his district.

I dont wish to vote him out, I wish his co-workers would do their jobs and get him out ...................... NOW, before he LIES some more.

[Moparmyway]

By his own fear and lack of integrity; yes. But also by the inappropriate question being asked.

I said on the first day it came out, that if it were me, I would have stood up hard and pointed and said: Shut up and mind your own business. If I send a picture of my dick to someone, it's their business and mine. Not yours. What the hell are you so interested in my dick for anyway?

Now does anyone have any serious questions or can I get back to work? We've all got real issues to resolve in this country and talking about my dick isn't solving any of them.

Next real question? Anybody?

PHM
-----

ROFL .........
Now thats how it SHOULD have been handled. I can respect someone who tells it like it is rather than just lie.

Nobody was forced to lie. He made his decision, now the consequences will land squarely on his shoulders.