Leak Dye...your thoughts

[iraqveteran]

What are your thoughts on using UV leak dye in a system?


I have heard that the leak dye can do some serious damage to a system if it remains in the system...

But on the other hand, it can help to find pinhole leaks that cannot be detected by means or pressurized nitrogen or electronic leak detectors...



So what do yall think here???? Just tryin to get some food for thought.

[markettech]

What, it's too quiet around here for ya tonight....gotta stir up trouble??











:D:D

[iraqveteran]

What, it's too quiet around here for ya tonight....gotta stir up trouble??











:D:D

Not at all....


I don't like the ****. But our "VP" who knows it "all" made us put leak dye into a WIF...


Freezer is already on its last leg. 12 years old. Condenser rotten to sh!t from salt-air. Compressor valves goin out. Receiver corroded to hell. King valves shot to sh!t...etc.etc.


I didn't want to put the dye in. But now that its been introduced and been there about a week.....I'm just awaitin the midnight call for a dead compressor.




I want to see other's thoughts on using the stuff in general

[markettech]

This topic has been debated several times over the years.

Personally, I strongly believe the only two things that belong in a refrigeration system are refrigerant and oil.

There are others here that disagree...but I don't hold their mistake in judgement against them:cool:.....:D

[iraqveteran]

This topic has been debated several times over the years.

Personally, I strongly believe the only two things that belong in a refrigeration system are refrigerant and oil.

There are others here that disagree...but I don't hold their mistake in judgement against them:cool:.....:D

LOL.


I couldn't agree with you more.


I remember a Trane class I attended a couple years ago. The instructor showed us some pictures. They did a running test. 2 compressors, 1 with and 1 without.


After they ran the compressors for the equivalent of somethin like 6 months, they tore em apart and took a closer look.

The compressor that had the leak dye had a severe discoloration in the oil and all the moving components showed extreme wear.


The compressor without leak dye looked just as it should. No wear, nothin.

[crackertech]

Oh boy here we go again.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by markettech View Post
This topic has been debated several times over the years.

Personally, I strongly believe the only two things that belong in a refrigeration system are refrigerant and oil.

There are others here that disagree...but I don't hold their mistake in judgement against them.I couldn't agree more.

[tarheel_tech]

I hate dye,don't use it anymore.I use to get more on me than in the system.And I could never find a leak with dye that I could not with a good leak detector and big blue.

[above-par]

What happens when you take your gauges off or forget to tighten your hose
dye goes everywhere.
Personally I wont use the dye I like my D-tec and bubbles

[Phase Loss]

My opinion is. if you have a leak in an open accessible area and you can not find it with a sniffer and bubbles, you are doing something wrong. If you have a leak underground or behind a wall, dye will not do you any good. so if you cant find the leak in the accessible areas you can assume it is either underground or behind a wall. in this case you cant beat cutting/capping the lines and pump them up with nitrogen individually go grab a bite to eat and return to see which line drops pressure.

although Copland has this to say on page 4 under evacuation and leak detection
http://www.hvacrinfo.com/cope_ae_bulletins/TAE1295.PDF

[primmers]

i dyed my hair brite red once..boy was that a mistake..

[beachtech]

never used dye, never will

never had to use it to find a leak.

[rayr]

Like the Market Guy said,,,,only 2 chemicals belong in a refrigeration system and one of em aint UV DYE...

[Marc O'Brien]

I've seen a lot of systems with dye in them. I know that the thousands of systems on the London Underground Network (tfL - Transport for London UK) have had dye added just in case any of them have a leak at any time then the techs have one more way to search.

I have never known a problem to be caused by the dye. Certainly, often systems that have dye added are system already suffering somehow such as overheated compressor from extended periods operating without adequate refrigerant cooling.

I agree that the stuff is very messy. I also agree that it has never helped me find a leak. My leaks are found using firstly a 5mg/year electronic heated diode leak detector with proprietary bubble spray for pinpointing. Sometimes I use the ultrasonic detector before the bubble spray.

I don't really see the need for dye but I also don't personally know of any problems caused by it other than messy hands and shirts.

[markettech]

My leaks are found using firstly a 5mg/year electronic heated diode leak detector with proprietary bubble spray for pinpointing.

I just use an electronic leak detector and soap bubbles;)

....Not sure what a heated diode detector with proprietary bubble spray is :rolleyes:...........:D

[powell]

Years ago Lusker and I used dye in a system. We were a mess by the time we finished.

He shined the UV light on me and started laughing, I shined the light on him and did the same.

We both laughed our a$$es off as we put our stuff in the truck. :D

I dont think we found the leak.

[Freezerdoctor]

That stuff will freeze in the cap tubes of ultra cold systems and cause a restriction. I have used it once on a -20 walk in box, because I couldn't find the leak...it ended up being a tiny crack on a u tube in the evap. The dye helped me on that one.

[HVAC2B]

What are your thoughts on using UV leak dye in a system?


I have heard that the leak dye can do some serious damage to a system if it remains in the system...

But on the other hand, it can help to find pinhole leaks that cannot be detected by means or pressurized nitrogen or electronic leak detectors...



So what do yall think here???? Just tryin to get some food for thought.

Well of coarse the stuff is great:rolleyes:If its a small leak,just put a can of super seal in it and call it good:D:p:D

[Biblepoet]

Well of coarse the stuff is great:rolleyes:If its a small leak,just put a can of super seal in it and call it good:D:p:D
You couldn't leave well enough alone, could you!!!:p:D

[markettech]

You couldn't leave well enough alone, could you!!!:p:D

My thoughts exactly.............:D

[jpsmith1cm]

I have worked on some systems with non-UV dye in them. I would not add it to a system myself.

Never really helped me find a leak, but never saw any damage from it either.

And btw, I believe that an H-10 is a heated diode leak detector, but H-10 vs other leak detectors is another post... :D

[mikep]

Where we first saw problems with dye was in low temp freezers. A brownish green residue partially plugging the txv.

[Burnerfixer]

Well of coarse the stuff is great:rolleyes:If its a small leak,just put a can of super seal in it and call it good:D:p:D May as well throw chewing gum in there too. Between Stupid Seal and Dye, guaranteed to f**k up a system.

[crackertech]

May as well throw chewing gum in there too. Between Stupid Seal and Dye, guaranteed to f**k up a system.

:D:D:D

[Phase Loss]

May as well throw chewing gum in there too.

actually...chewing gum on the external pipe with some tape works great for suction lines under 10#.

at least that is what my refrigeration book says. "Mickey Mouse Refrigeration"

[merlin73]

Copeland and other manufacture of compressors will not warranty the compressor if it still hasone. My solution is to buy a good leak detector and use it. also change the sensors as recommended. I did use the dye in every new install till i talked to a guy from copeland. now i will never use it.

[Phase Loss]

My opinion is. if you have a leak in an open accessible area and you can not find it with a sniffer and bubbles, you are doing something wrong. If you have a leak underground or behind a wall, dye will not do you any good. so if you cant find the leak in the accessible areas you can assume it is either underground or behind a wall. in this case you cant beat cutting/capping the lines and pump them up with nitrogen individually go grab a bite to eat and return to see which line drops pressure.

although Copland has this to say on page 4 under evacuation and leak detection
http://www.hvacrinfo.com/cope_ae_bulletins/TAE1295.PDF




again...note the link. Unless copeland has changed their opinion. I by no means back up dye. but its not right to say Copland will not back a warranty. when in fact they do approve the use of this one dye.

[mikep]

http://www.hvacrinfo.com/cope_ae_bulletins/TAE1295.PDF

In this bulletin, Copeland says that the only dye approved is called System Safe made by Ridged Tools. How ironic, because Emerson owns both Copeland and Ridged Tools.

[Burnerfixer]

http://www.hvacrinfo.com/cope_ae_bulletins/TAE1295.PDF

In this bulletin, Copeland says that the only dye approved is called System Safe made by Ridged Tools. How ironic, because Emerson owns both Copeland and Ridged Tools.

Ain't it the pitts. :p

[fcs]

only two things that belong in a refrigeration system are refrigerant and oil.

I use a black light in dark areas and the oil WITH NO dry is often easy to spot then bubble it.


For 99 % of the time I use D-Teck Select and or Bubbles

[beachtech]

is it just me? or is 404a hard as h3ll to find a leak?

[fcs]

is it just me? or is 404a hard as h3ll to find a leak?

I haven't had any trouble, Using the D-Tech Select:)
What detector are you using???

[beachtech]

I haven't had any trouble, Using the D-Tech Select:)
What detector are you using???

same leak detector :)

had a reach in freezer kick my arse yesterday, and finaly on the second time leak searching i found the leak :o :o :mad:

[jpsmith1cm]

You are right, beach. 404 is a b***h.

I leave the d-tek in the truck on 404 leaks and use the H-10 on high sensitivity. I have walked right past 404 leaks. Easy to do.

[410schooltech]

Been in the trade 18 yr.have used dye in systems with no trouble.but there is no sub for nitrogen/R22,a good leak det and bubbles.

[beachtech]

You are right, beach. 404 is a b***h.

I leave the d-tek in the truck on 404 leaks and use the H-10 on high sensitivity. I have walked right past 404 leaks. Easy to do.

my d-tek picks it up, but you have to get the tip right on the leak in such a way the leak sprays right into the leatk detector :o

my h-10 is so old, and it's in shambles, i cannot afford a new one at this time.

untill them, it'll have to be the trust worthy big blue and the d-tek select :o

[tarheel_tech]

I thought about getting a H-10 for some of the tuffer leaks to find.My Infincon works good most of the time,but there is always them other times.

[jpsmith1cm]

IMO. Best leak detector on the market. No contest.

[Phase Loss]

REAL men use a halide torch;)

ive been curious about ultra sonic...any one have some experience?

[Marc O'Brien]

REAL men use a halide torch;)

ive been curious about ultra sonic...any one have some experience?

Excellent tool!

Turn it up to its loudest (headphones) and from 4 meters away you can hear the tiniest leak going pop......pop......pop......pop.

The first time I used it I thought the pop pop was an electronic something or other like the alarm system on the wall behind the unit or a radar blip from the nearest airport. I walked around the unit ruling all other options out and was eventually amazed at the size leak found by the ultrasonic. There it was, a tiny tiny pin-hole with the tiny bubbles going pop.....pop.....pop. Sureal proportionality - you can see these tiny bubbles build and burst, tiny tiny bubbles and yet you headset is bellowing out at you POP......POP.......POP.

Ultrasonic and aultra amplified. They should call it the amplified ultrasonic leak detector.

[Phase Loss]

so if i were to use one next to a running rack, would my head explode due to the amplified sounds.

obviously when leak checking with the ultra sonic, everything needs to be turned off?

[Marc O'Brien]

so if i were to use one next to a running rack, would my head explode due to the amplified sounds.

obviously when leak checking with the ultra sonic, everything needs to be turned off?

Admittedly I have only used it on two leaky R134A Centifs so far. But on the other occasion I was using it to check a new install for leaks, that was a running Daikin Mini Split 14kW Inverter unit and I was picking up noises from the compressor spinning - weird noises - but only if I pointed it in that direction. Yeah, you probably want to turn everything off, I guess.

[crackertech]

How many times a year must this question come up? I'll say it again
only two things that belong in a refrigeration system are refrigerant and oil. .

[iraqveteran]

Holy sh!t...


This thread is still going??? :eek:

[CENAIR]

My H-10 finds leaks all my other leak detectors can't, and is the best in the industry and I have tried and bought just about all. Just be careful when near any sweating pipes or moisture you don't want to suck in a droplet or you will be sending it in for a repair.

The H-10 finds leaks too better even on refrigerants that it isn't rated for, amazing instrument and haven't found anthing better in 25 years.

Paul R.

[carolinatech]

If dye and super seal are so great then why would the manufacturer not add these to the units at the factory? OK so we pull deep vacuums to remove moisture and air but then want to add dye particles?

I have never used dye and will never-never-never use Super Seal unless I wish to kill the system. Ever reclaim a system with Super Seal and look at the refrigerant drier and TXV screen. Seen a reclaim tank cracked open once with Super Seal and silly string came out of the valve.

[QTEMP]

Dye is for lazy people......electronic leak detectors like the H10 and the D-tek are fantastic in my experience. However, the professional way is recovery the refrigerant and pressurize the system with nitrogen to 300 PSIG...you will find the leak. Then change the drier and proper evacuation and deep vacuum with a micron gauge. This ensures proper technique and professional and reliable tight systems.

[jpsmith1cm]

Dye is for lazy people......electronic leak detectors like the H10 and the D-tek are fantastic in my experience. However, the professional way is recovery the refrigerant and pressurize the system with nitrogen to 300 PSIG...you will find the leak. Then change the drier and proper evacuation and deep vacuum with a micron gauge. This ensures proper technique and professional and reliable tight systems.

Yeah. try that on a rack that holds 1500 lbs of r404. While the cases are still loaded with over $100,000 of product.

You'll be SHOT!

[tjc76]

Yeah. try that on a rack that holds 1500 lbs of r404. While the cases are still loaded with over $100,000 of product.

You'll be SHOT!

like jp said. nitro is great for a small fast food walk in with a 15 or 20 lb charge, but it is not an option on a large rack or a kramer with a 500 lb charge. get an h10 and check diligently. dye requires oil leaving the system to leave a mark, so why not just look for oil stains?

[QTEMP]

I think that goes without saying....in most cases.....I'm trying to help people here, not create confrontation......in large refrigerant systems, then dye may be the best choice...but not always the first choice. Too many times...service companies charge the system with dye and come back with their magic lights. Your best tools for leak checking are your eyeballs......then a leak detector, your ears, then performing a pressure test. Call backs and refrigerant are expensive too, along with potential product loss, refrigerant costs and the damage done to the compressor due to decreased oil return to the compressor. So, I would rather fix it right the first time....or what ever it takes. Then I would ask " why do I have leaks"...bad installation, etc....this is general advise and not application specific.

[clintkennon]

I think the problem with the dye is the delivery method. Its been my experience that when I load the capsule I fell like the ends of the capsule have air bubbles in it. But I have worked at a company that had been using them for years without any trouble. I will say this though if you have a problem leak dye will find it. I would definitely change the filter dryers after you find the leak and possibly change the oil.

[fcs]

Dye is not a good choice.

[QTEMP]

Dye is not a good choice.

Agreed....I don't like the stuff.. In fact, years ago, a product called dyetel was added to refrigerant by dupont to locate leaks...i don't think it's around any more....and my guys don't even carry it in their trucks.

[smstooge]

i agree with qtemp the proper way to check for a leak is first oil stains next recover and and use nitrogen and bubbles if you cannot find one then use a dye and black light once the problem has been found fix it install a new filter drier and evacuate with a good micron gauge down to proper micron levels.

[smstooge]

i cant believe you used the dye in every install i only use it when there is a leak. i never have leaks on my fittings because i take the time to prepare them properly. out of my seven years of experience i have only had 2 leaks on brazed fittings which were found before any refrigerant was added to the system (Visual). And may i note i have never had a leak on any of my plumbing pipes because i take the time to prepare them. I think as long as the coil has been factory pressurized and there is still pressure in it and the same with the outdoor unit then the homeowner should have a worry free system for years !

[crackertech]

Only a hack would out dye in a system.:eek::(

[rayr]

Write this 5,000 time on the blackoard and maybe it will sink in!!!!!

OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT

[fcs]

i cant believe you used the dye in every install i only use it when there is a leak.

Should never use dye

Read the RSES Journal Jan 2008 page 34-37 see statement on Page 37

[crackertech]

Write this 5,000 time on the blackoard and maybe it will sink in!!!!!

OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT

Some never learn.:o

[Burnerfixer]

Now you want them to learn something ? :eek::D:D:p

[clintkennon]

Write this 5,000 time on the blackoard and maybe it will sink in!!!!!

OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT

I dont get it.

[Burnerfixer]

I dont get it. Why, he is telling the TRUTH

[ludicrousspeed]

Remember when you buy R-22 with monkey blood...

[IceMonster]

I think what RAYR is replying

Only refrigerant and oil is required in a unit. All other substances such as dye, sealers etc needs to stay out of a unit. You should be leaking testing with electronic detector and soap bubbles method.

[Biblepoet]

Write this 5,000 time on the blackoard and maybe it will sink in!!!!!

OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND RE OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT FRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT OIL AND REFRIGERANT
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

REDRUM, REDRUM - White wine, Cold Beer!!!! Where??!!!???:D:p

[coolhand55]

my d-tek picks it up, but you have to get the tip right on the leak in such a way the leak sprays right into the leatk detector :o

my h-10 is so old, and it's in shambles, i cannot afford a new one at this time.

untill them, it'll have to be the trust worthy big blue and the d-tek select :o
H-10's can be repaired, sometimes by just replacing the sensing element and giving the unit a good cleaning. The little hose that goes from the tip to the sensor can also get plugged, preventing proper operation. These repairs would be less expensive than buying a new unit. Good luck.