Goodman install

[jwiehagen76]

This is an install that was done today for a low income customer.

[jpdc]

Nicely done. Reliable unit for the price you pay for.

[AC Shop]

If all Goodman equipment was installed like that it might have a better reputation. Looks great. I did the same thing for my wife's Grandmother. 2 stage 90 plus - can't beat it for the price!

[AdamD]

Just wondering, but how long does that water pump last?

shown in the last pic.

I am assuming it is. Sorry if it's not, but I am a new ;)

[jwiehagen76]

With regular maintenance should last a long time.

[Lash]

I like it!

Nice job.
Are those turning veins I see in that elbow?

[kytinknocker]

Nice install and i agree good unit for the money.

[tinmarine]

Very nice.

[ndshvac]

The only problem that I have with this brand is that a local supply company will sell them to ANYBODY!! And I mean anybody. Most of the yahoos that put them in dont know their you know what from a hole in the ground.

[joe123]

The only problem that I have with this brand is that a local supply company will sell them to ANYBODY!! .

But the price of those Goodman is amazingly low and good products.

In my area, they want 100% more for a similar type of air handler made by Trane.

[jrbenny]

As an outsider to our industry, you don't realize the importance of a distributor and the role they play in the market.

A very well made product can have a poor reputation of performance when the distributor sells to every untrained duct monkey or homeowner.

Unfortunately, that has been the case of Goodman for several years in many parts of the country.

[Twilly]

Twilli says needs more duct tape. Other than that looks good.

[coolwhip]

I am sorry, but I have no respect for the brand.

[joe123]

One of the many good things Goodman has done, is to give the public an opportunity to see what HVAC really $cost$.

The mark-up on HVAC by contractors is astronamical in general. Goodman has made it possible to the general public to see what it really costs.

In my area, you cannot buy Goodman equipment unless you have a HVAC license, however, you do not have to have a HVAC business to buy a Goodman. So I can take an HVAC buddy with me to the store and get Goodman pricing.

[jrbenny]

What is the proper markup? What GM are supposed to achieve to make a net profit that you approve? What is an acceptable net profit?

Please give your answers as a percentage.

[joe123]

Open Market says whatever you want it to be.

What I think Goodman is doing for the open public, is showing that the real cost of an HVAC install is not the equipment, but that of the installation.

Make a fair profit, but don't hide your true costs by super inflating and markup of HVAC equipment.

[jrbenny]

You have NOT answered my questions.

Let's try this again without your agenda...

What is the proper markup? What GM are supposed to achieve to make a net profit that you approve? What is an acceptable net profit?

Please give your answers as a percentage.

[joe123]

You have NOT answered my questions.

Let's try this again without your agenda...

What is the proper markup? What GM are supposed to achieve to make a net profit that you approve? What is an acceptable net profit?

Please give your answers as a percentage.

I did. Open market says whatever. So if it costs GM 10k to make a truck and needs to recoup 50K to make a profit, then the markup is 5x.

GM cannot however, charge $500 bucks for a $100 part becuase the open market wont let them. What Goodman has done, is to show that $500 HVAC part really costs $100. At $100 bucks, they are making a profit. So if a contractor can re-sell that $100 part at $500, then waoo!

Before you take what I am saying out of context, I am all for any business charging whatever they want and to make a fair profit. What I don't like, and I am not alone on this, is to mask the real cost of running a business as being part the cost of the equipment.

[coolwhip]

I did. Open market says whatever. So if it costs GM 10k to make a truck and needs to recoup 50K to make a profit, then the markup is 5x.

GM cannot however, charge $500 bucks for a $100 part becuase the open market wont let them. What Goodman has done, is to show that $500 HVAC part really costs $100. At $100 bucks, they are making a profit. So if a contractor can re-sell that $100 part at $500, then waoo!

Before you take what I am saying out of context, I am all for any business charging whatever they want and to make a fair profit. What I don't like, and I am not alone on this, is to mask the real cost of running a business as being part the cost of the equipment.

You have no clue.:rolleyes:

[jrbenny]

I did. Open market says whatever. So if it costs GM 10k to make a truck and needs to recoup 50K to make a profit, then the markup is 5x.

GM cannot however, charge $500 bucks for a $100 part becuase the open market wont let them. What Goodman has done, is to show that $500 HVAC part really costs $100. At $100 bucks, they are making a profit. So if a contractor can re-sell that $100 part at $500, then waoo!

Before you take what I am saying out of context, I am all for any business charging whatever they want and to make a fair profit. What I don't like, and I am not alone on this, is to mask the real cost of running a business as being part the cost of the equipment.
Okay...

One question at a time just for you...

What is a fair profit? Again, answer me with a percentage, please.

[joe123]

Okay...

One question at a time just for you...

What is a fair profit? Again, answer me with a percentage, please.

Ok, here you go:

If it costs my company 30k a month to run, and I want 10k profit per month, then I need 40k a month.

If I do 5 new installs a month, and if the equipment costs me 5k per install (using simple fixed numbers), then I need to charge 13k per install. So I would have to markup equipment 260%.

I can show the customer one of two bills for the same indentical work:

(1) The equipment cost me 11k, plus 2k for my work. -or-
(2) The equipment cost me 5k, plus 8k for my work.

What Goodman has done, is to show that the equipment really is worth around 5k and not 11k. The 8k is going to the business to pay for the business and for profits.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Ok, here you go:

If it costs my company 30k a month to run, and I want 10k profit per month, then I need 40k a month.

If I do 5 new installs a month, and if the equipment costs me 5k per install (using simple fixed numbers), then I need to charge 13k per install. So I would have to markup equipment 260%.

I can show the customer one of two bills for the same indentical work:

(1) The equipment cost me 11k, plus 2k for my work. -or-
(2) The equipment cost me 5k, plus 8k for my work.

What Goodman has done, is to show that the equipment really is worth around 5k and not 11k. The 8k is going to the business to pay for the business and for profits.

So what interest do you have in knowing what it costs a company to run their business?

[joe123]

I don't. All I said is that Goodman has brought light into a dark area. Contractors cannot any longer hide behind the equipment costs and making it seem like the equipment is the real cost of an HVAC install.

It is not.

[coolwhip]

Obviously, this guy has no clue as to what it costs to run a legitimate business.
I wonder if he is considering workmans comp., liability, fleet, medical, education, equipment and tools, employee wages etc. etc.:rolleyes:

Then again, this is a goodman thread.:eek:

BTW, you should mention this to your dentist next time you have a crown made.

[joe123]

There are all kinds of costs in running a legit business and this guy has missed the point.

Charge all you want and need to. However, the days of hidding the real costs by super inflating HVAC equipment are gone and the company doing that is Goodman. :D

With a little effort, I can get HVAC Goodman pricing. Not so easy with others.

[coolwhip]

Tell ya what...you go buy all the Janijunk furnaces you want.

BTW, nobody is hiding anything...perhaps you need to consult a shrink about your paranoia problem.

[jrbenny]

Ok, here you go:

If it costs my company 30k a month to run, and I want 10k profit per month, then I need 40k a month.

If I do 5 new installs a month, and if the equipment costs me 5k per install (using simple fixed numbers), then I need to charge 13k per install. So I would have to markup equipment 260%.

I can show the customer one of two bills for the same indentical work:

(1) The equipment cost me 11k, plus 2k for my work. -or-
(2) The equipment cost me 5k, plus 8k for my work.

What Goodman has done, is to show that the equipment really is worth around 5k and not 11k. The 8k is going to the business to pay for the business and for profits.
You have yet to answer my question.


I agree with Whip. You are clueless.

[crowemagnum]

Goodman has gotton better but there is a reason they got the best warrany around. For awhile the had issues will there coils not lasting a YEAR. Yes a year they ate some serious clams and had to fix this. Yes they are cheap and the hacks gobble them up but a coil is a coil no hack job needed for a leak. Another comment. I walk into the goodman supply house and about trip over the long long line of dead compressers Who just changes compressers out unless its a warranty or a rooftop. I agree with cooltop no respect. It is the only brand I have bad things to say about.

[BobbyBJr]

Don't know about the rest of you all, but Goodman isn't that much cheaper than other brands in my area anymore. They used to be quite a difference, but not anymore.

[Airmechanical]

Goodman has gotton better but there is a reason they got the best warrany around. For awhile the had issues will there coils not lasting a YEAR. Yes a year they ate some serious clams and had to fix this. Yes they are cheap and the hacks gobble them up but a coil is a coil no hack job needed for a leak. Another comment. I walk into the goodman supply house and about trip over the long long line of dead compressers Who just changes compressers out unless its a warranty or a rooftop. I agree with cooltop no respect. It is the only brand I have bad things to say about.

ok, with your vast experience, what are some bad things about goodman

i am gonna be nice here, you are full of BULLshot

tripping over compressors at supply houses, what a crock

you and coolwhip need to open up your eyes

and to joe 123 don't you think materials for installations count toward the cost of equipment

if you knew how much materials costed us for an install, you just might change your story



.

[beenthere]

Another comment. I walk into the goodman supply house and about trip over the long long line of dead compressers Who just changes compressers out unless its a warranty or a rooftop.


More like a long line of perfectly good compressors condemned, by techs and DIYers that don't know how to tell difference between a dead compresor and their screwed up install.

I've seen techs condemn compressors because they had a 400PSIG head with a 20PSIG suction pressure.

[joe123]

I walk into the goodman supply house and about trip over the long long line of dead compressers Who just changes compressers out unless its a warranty or a rooftop. I agree with cooltop no respect. It is the only brand I have bad things to say about.

From what I have read at numerous sites, this is all a lie.

What is funny is the false attack on Goodman when Goodman shares the same components like other brands share but the other brands charge a LOT more for the same indentical component like the scroll compressor :D

Equally funny for me as a home owner is how HVAC contractors here attack each other with brand wipping.

As a smart home owner, I look for the cost of warranty in a 10 years parts and labor. Goodman offers pretty $reasonable$ prices on that and that is the $bottom$ line.

[coolwhip]

ok, with your vast experience, what are some bad things about goodman

i am gonna be nice here, you are full of BULLshot

tripping over compressors at supply houses, what a crock

you and coolwhip need to open up your eyes

and to joe 123 don't you think materials for installations count toward the cost of equipment

if you knew how much materials costed us for an install, you just might change your story



.

Bite me you cheeky imp!:p

Open your own damn eyes!

Goodman sucks!...they sell equipment to boneheads like Joe blow above, station wagon hacks, and 3rd rate builders. If there was ever a prostitute brand, it has always been janijunk/goodman...always catering to the trash that brings down the industry and our professionalism.

They suckin piss me off! and so do goofballs like Joe blow and you too if you cant figure it out.

I hope this thread gets deleted because I hate effin goodman and all the dumbasses that think they get a bargain when they purchase the POS.

I am sick of them whoring their equipment out, I hate dealing with them and their inept staff, I cant stand the looser wanna be tradesmen that frequent their supply houses and who are always asking how to fix their sheit at the counters....as if the retarded staff had a clue.

Whats the matter with goodman?...you'll figure it out eventually.:rolleyes:

[absoair]

I've seen hacks buy other brands besides Goodman. If they are low income, can't afford the high end, they get Goodman or Grand-Air installed the same way the high end is installed.

[Airmechanical]

Bite me you cheeky imp!:p


:p:D

i should of known not to include your name in my post:(



.

[coolwhip]

:p:D

i should of known not to include your name in my post:(



.

No worries mate!:cool:

[joe123]

Whats the matter with goodman?:

Nothing wrong with Goodman. What Goodman has done is shown the world what HVAC components really $costs$ and the other much more expensive brands are taking a hit.

I believe that certain contractors take issues with Goodman because those contractors can no longer super markup their brands. With the soft economy, this is going to get worse.

Goodman has good products and share many of the same components other brands have. Best of all, Goodman has made it very easy for qualified techs to purchase HVAC at very good prices. You no longer have to go through the company's boss to get pricing and to purchase HAVC. That's a good thing :D

[coolwhip]

Cant make a silk purse out of sows ear Joey, no matter how much you repeat yourself...and dont ever quote me out of context again.

[jrbenny]

Nothing wrong with Goodman. What Goodman has done is shown the world what HVAC components really $costs$ and the other much more expensive brands are taking a hit.

I believe that certain contractors take issues with Goodman because those contractors can no longer super markup their brands. With the soft economy, this is going to get worse.

Goodman has good products and share many of the same components other brands have. Best of all, Goodman has made it very easy for qualified techs to purchase HVAC at very good prices. You no longer have to go through the company's boss to get pricing and to purchase HAVC. That's a good thing :D
NO.

It devalues our industry because idiots like you don't understand the cost of doing business and gripe about business professional applying proper markup to equipment AND labor.

You are nothing more than a troll.

Go away.

[crowemagnum]

I am an honest person and do not like being called a lier. It was about 2 and half years ago. I rarley go to the supply house because we don't deal with them and they don't give my boss the kiss butt prices. They did have a part that I could not find at the other five supply houses. As I walk to the back there were at least 20-25 used compressers in a single line on small wood pallats. Make your excuses but don't call me a lier. I noticed no one argued the leaky coil problem! Maybe they had a bad orface design causing bad preasure. All i know is what I saw and changed out. Did i mention that I changed out like ten coils under warrany one year, and I do mostly new commercial work I only do crap like that when they get swamped. I am not bashing brands I have no problem with pretty much all brands. I understand that all the parts come from China but they cut corners and got bit in the butt. The only other coil I really don't like is that Allcoil (I think thats its name) you know the one were the coil is inside of the premade duct board plume. I just want one person to argue in favor of that thing. we would have to start a new thread

[crowemagnum]

One more thing I don't care about cost of unit. I don't price them I just put them in. If your agrument is cost. You get what you pay for

[superheatrman]

More like a long line of perfectly good compressors condemned, by techs and DIYers that don't know how to tell difference between a dead compresor and their screwed up install.

I've seen techs condemn compressors because they had a 400PSIG head with a 20PSIG suction pressure.

:) and making strange sound, running with internal relief valve opening, because the metering device is plugged..

[sammy37]

Obviously, this guy has no clue as to what it costs to run a legitimate business.
I wonder if he is considering workmans comp., liability, fleet, medical, education, equipment and tools, employee wages etc. etc.:rolleyes:

Then again, this is a goodman thread.:eek:

BTW, you should mention this to your dentist next time you have a crown made.

I dont follow this site too much lately, too damn busy. The last time I was in here over a month ago, this same guy was *****in about something else in a resi thread. Cant believe you guys put up with it!

One of the reasons my brother shut his wood shop down is because of astronomical workmans comp fees, along with everything else. Some people absolutely dont have a clue what it costs to run a business.

[sammy37]

By the way coolwhip, I was refering to that joe123 guy, not you. :)

[Some Dude]

Eight years in business and some days i still dont know what im doing.
Honstly Joe you have no idea what you are saying. Hope you figure it out.

Till then i hope people pay you what they think your worth.

[Texas-Tech]

I am an honest person and do not like being called a lier. It was about 2 and half years ago. I rarley go to the supply house because we don't deal with them and they don't give my boss the kiss butt prices. They did have a part that I could not find at the other five supply houses. As I walk to the back there were at least 20-25 used compressers in a single line on small wood pallats. Make your excuses but don't call me a lier. I noticed no one argued the leaky coil problem! Maybe they had a bad orface design causing bad preasure. All i know is what I saw and changed out. Did i mention that I changed out like ten coils under warrany one year, and I do mostly new commercial work I only do crap like that when they get swamped. I am not bashing brands I have no problem with pretty much all brands. I understand that all the parts come from China but they cut corners and got bit in the butt. The only other coil I really don't like is that Allcoil (I think thats its name) you know the one were the coil is inside of the premade duct board plume. I just want one person to argue in favor of that thing. we would have to start a new thread

Allstyle is the manf of the great POS Plenum coil

[Sammer VII]

Very nicely Done.

[RCAVH]

looks good im sure it works now lets move on

[danometer]

im with you whip there can be no respect for a company that will sell online to any homeowner or anyone off the street.

[crowemagnum]

Thanks texas It was an the tip of my mind just could not remember the name. I don,t see them any more probaly cause.... well we all know why

[Wheelbaron]

Wow this has gotten way off topic....so I will first say, nice install. Only thing I did not like was the metal strap holding up the venting.

Now as for the poster who thinks that he knows how this biz works, let me ask you this:

What should a guy charge for a piece of metal duct installed? Do you have a clue what it takes to get that metal from a flat sheet to a nice cross braked and tightly installed duct?

lets see
1. buy and stock the material.
2. use at least 2 large very expensive pieces of equipment to bent the metal.
3. Install correctly using many expensive hand and power tools.

That is just the one piece... what about gas pipe cut and threaded, electrical done to code, holes cut for the venting.......and on and on and on. Do you have ANY idea how many tools the average installer/tech has to have, not to mention the vast aray of stock items a guy has to carry around all the time.....

[Wheelbaron]

You are getting all these replies, cause honestly most of us work a hard day, and don't see much gratitude from customers who have desk jobs that pay much better that we make out.

Today I said screw it and never left the office, but I did not make a dime either. I will end up working a long weekend for sure:rolleyes:

[milicz]

The Goodman I had replaced was a POS, so I won't defend Goodman, I also know little about HVAC. That said, it was very frustrating shopping for the right furnace when I did not know the real cost of said furnace, and I'm speaking as a consumer here. It's the same reason some people prefer to buy a Scion or a Saturn, they know they're not paying more then the guy next door for the same car since everyone gets the same pricing.

I see everyone is getting worked up because Joe is against marking up equipment, well an equipment markup is the same thing that a retailer does with its inventory, they get it for X price from the distributor and the consumer pays a 30% markup over that. If I want to install a new door I pay for the door at HomeDepot and have an install guy put the door in at a set price, I have paid HomeDepot that markup. The difference with paying a markup to an HVAC place is that I can't even find out the suggested retail price for the damn thing, I don't know if company X does 100% markup and company B does 30%, I have no way to judge a fair price. As a consumer it would be a great if the major companies came out with a suggested retail price for equipment (which already includes the markup) so that consumers could make a more informed choice, I'm not sure how you HVAC guys would feel about that of course. Then the consumer would be down to determining whether they want a cheap installer or an experienced one. My $.02.

[beenthere]

And when you bought that door at HD, you didn't and still don't know how much they marked it up.

[milicz]

And when you bought that door at HD, you didn't and still don't know how much they marked it up.

But I know how much Menard's, Lowe's and other competitor's are selling them for and I can order one on the internet as well, makes it easier to comparison shop.

[beenthere]

But you still don't have any idea of how much mark up any of them charge.

Buying power changes what they pay for the same door.

Same way with HVAC equipment. One company pays more then another.

[jwiehagen76]

If you want to know the mark up just go to school learn the trade get mechanical license and all the rest of things that apply to be a dealer. All the b.s about mark up is stupid.

[milicz]

Since markup seems to be the upsetting word here how about you ignore that and look at what I am saying as a consumer.

[jrbenny]

Ummm...

We are consumers, too. ;)

If you want to compare prices, then get multiple quotes. Just like going to multiple stores.

[beenthere]

Since markup seems to be the upsetting word here how about you ignore that and look at what I am saying as a consumer.

What your saying as a customer, isn't making sense.

[jrbenny]

What your saying as a customer, isn't making sense.
I'm with you BT...

I don't ask the markup on things when I buy them.

If I think the price asked is correct for the perceived value, then I make the purchase.

[milicz]

What your saying as a customer, isn't making sense.

I can't check the price of a furnace until a guy comes out to see my place, can't even get a quote over the phone for the furnace, not the install or ductwork or anything else, if I just want to know the price of the furnace or boiler or whatever. You can't be serious that you don't think it can be frustrating for consumers can you?

[jrbenny]

How can we possibly price a system without seeing the necessary installation? :confused:

[crowemagnum]

It is not as easy as comparing prices. Units very a good bit. say you got a 4 ton. there are many diff grades of units like a builders model or mabye a 410 system compared to a R22. then if you go from brand to brand you are comparing a whole nother thing and parts. there could be a hundred diff 4 ton models. You could call a supply house and get a quote on a 4 ton and call back in two min get onther person and a diff price. They don't even give use the same price. Their mark up is diff based on the amount you buy from them per month

[beenthere]

I can't legally retail a furnace, A/C, boiler, or any HVAC equipment or materials.
State Tax BS.
Has to be a contract install.

So I can't give you(any customer) a retail price on the equipment.


Even if I had a retail tax license.
The price of a furnace installed, wouldn't be the same price as one retailed.

So calling on the phone, would get you no where.

[milicz]

How can we possibly price a system without seeing the necessary installation? :confused:

I didn't want a system priced, I wanted a specific model furnace but could not get a price on it until I got the full quote for the entire install. The way I wanted to look for a system was 1) recommended installer 2) price of parts and 3) price of labor.

I knew the furnace I wanted, after looking and finding recommended companies I couldn't get any of them to tell me what they would charge me for the furnace itself until they came out. Only after they all came out could I haggle and say company A will do it for set amount of $. I know that's how the industry works, but I like to look at things online and have a fair idea if someone is pulling my leg before hand (hence why I came on this site), it was surprising to me that I couldn't.

[milicz]

I can't legally retail a furnace, A/C, boiler, or any HVAC equipment or materials.
State Tax BS.
Has to be a contract install.

So I can't give you(any customer) a retail price on the equipment.


Even if I had a retail tax license.
The price of a furnace installed, wouldn't be the same price as one retailed.

So calling on the phone, would get you no where.

Now that would explain things quite a bit. Thanks for that info.

[beenthere]

(hence why I came on this site), it was surprising to me that I couldn't.

We are not a retail industry.

[jrbenny]

I didn't want a system priced, I wanted a specific model furnace but could not get a price on it until I got the full quote for the entire install. The way I wanted to look for a system was 1) recommended installer 2) price of parts and 3) price of labor.

I knew the furnace I wanted, after looking and finding recommended companies I couldn't get any of them to tell me what they would charge me for the furnace itself until they came out. Only after they all came out could I haggle and say company A will do it for set amount of $. I know that's how the industry works, but I like to look at things online and have a fair idea if someone is pulling my leg before hand (hence why I came on this site), it was surprising to me that I couldn't.
We don't sell boxes.

We sell complete installed systems.

We aren't refrigerator salesmen.

[crowemagnum]

Sounds to me like you want to buy unit from company A but have Company B put it in.

[crowemagnum]

always go with recommended instaler. It is usally worth the extra $$. Most brands are comparible with one another

[joe123]

The Goodman I had replaced was a POS, so I won't defend Goodman, I also know little about HVAC. That said, it was very frustrating shopping for the right furnace when I did not know the real cost of said furnace, and I'm speaking as a consumer here. It's the same reason some people prefer to buy a Scion or a Saturn, they know they're not paying more then the guy next door for the same car since everyone gets the same pricing.

I see everyone is getting worked up because Joe is against marking up equipment, well an equipment markup is the same thing that a retailer does with its inventory, they get it for X price from the distributor and the consumer pays a 30% markup over that. If I want to install a new door I pay for the door at HomeDepot and have an install guy put the door in at a set price, I have paid HomeDepot that markup. The difference with paying a markup to an HVAC place is that I can't even find out the suggested retail price for the damn thing, I don't know if company X does 100% markup and company B does 30%, I have no way to judge a fair price. As a consumer it would be a great if the major companies came out with a suggested retail price for equipment (which already includes the markup) so that consumers could make a more informed choice, I'm not sure how you HVAC guys would feel about that of course. Then the consumer would be down to determining whether they want a cheap installer or an experienced one. My $.02.

Very well SAID!

There is a lot of hostility here from HVAC contractors when you begin to itemize the bill.

There is a reason. You see contractors do have lots of expenses, some legit, some not.

The legitamte expenses are insurance, taxes, workers comp, employee salaries, business rent, training, etc.

The not so legit are waste, wife-new bobbies, expensive house, expensive cars, gifts for the girlfriend :D:, gifts for the boyfriend :eek:, etc.

So contractors LUMP it all together so that they can justify their markups and thus the final bill.

Very much like the "stimulus bill" ( BAIL-OUT bill ) now under way in congress with ALL those 9,000 earmarks full of WASTE.

[milicz]

always go with recommended instaler. It is usally worth the extra $$. Most brands are comparible with one another

Which is what I did. :) But since I needed a modulating furnace that was ultra quiet all brands were not comparable with each other.

[jwiehagen76]

Gotta love a bargain shopper. Nickel and dime ya all the way

[superheatrman]

Gotta love a bargain shopper. Nickel and dime ya all the way

Difficult customers get special pricing, we offer it to all of our challenged freinds...:)

[Senior Tech]

I was going to read all of this thread but I have to go out and make sure my butler is getting all the swirl marks outta my Jag...:cool:

[Dad]

Joe123

If you hate us so much, why are you even here? I can tell you first hand that you are so full of it you squish when you walk and have no clue about our industry. Especially when it comes to accounting. Profit is not a dirty word, ask your employer if in doubt. If so, then there would be only the government to bring you a stack of wood and a match to warm your house.

Time to get over it. As long as there is free enterprise there will be profit made and spent to support our economy that puts bread on everyone's table.

Ghezzz ... this thread is deplorable.

[Admin]

Very well SAID!

There is a lot of hostility here from HVAC contractors when you begin to itemize the bill.

There is a reason. You see contractors do have lots of expenses, some legit, some not.

The legitamte expenses are insurance, taxes, workers comp, employee salaries, business rent, training, etc.

The not so legit are waste, wife-new bobbies, expensive house, expensive cars, gifts for the girlfriend :D:, gifts for the boyfriend :eek:, etc.

So contractors LUMP it all together so that they can justify their markups and thus the final bill.

Very much like the "stimulus bill" ( BAIL-OUT bill ) now under way in congress with ALL those 9,000 earmarks full of WASTE.


Joe123,

This is a site for contractors, not a site to bash contractors. Your post is specifically designed to incite rather than ad to the conversation. Posts such as this are the antithesis of what we want here at HVAC-Talk.

If you continue to post in this manner, your account will be removed. There will be no further notification regarding this subject.

Admin

[joe123]

I knew the furnace I wanted, after looking and finding recommended companies I couldn't get any of them to tell me what they would charge me for the furnace itself until they came out. Only after they all came out could I haggle and say company A will do it for set amount of $. I know that's how the industry works, but I like to look at things online and have a fair idea if someone is pulling my leg before hand (hence why I came on this site), it was surprising to me that I couldn't.

That's the BEAUTIFUL and GLORIOUS thing about GOODMAN. Goodman will sell to any license tech and in some states, Goodman will sell to anyone, so the consumer NOW has a way to know how much HVAC equipment really $costs$ :D

Goodman is now the 2nd largest HVAC manufacture which means that their model is WORKING and that honest good consumers are being helped.

With the economy as bad as it is, GOODMAN is helping by offering decent prices with good warranty. With 8 more years of this terrible economy, GOODMAN will get even bigger and stronger.

[beenthere]

Goodman will sell to any license tech and in some states, Goodman will sell to anyone, so the consumer NOW has a way to know how much HVAC equipment really $costs$ :D

Not really.

Goodman is now the 2nd largest HVAC manufacture which means that their model is WORKING and that honest good consumers are being helped.

They been the second largest for some time.

With the economy as bad as it is, GOODMAN is helping by offering decent prices with good warranty. With 8 more years of this terrible economy, GOODMAN will get even bigger and stronger.

Or go under because of warranty claims.



It you were good at predicting futures. You would be rich, and not care about the cost of furnace.

[joe123]

Yes, Really.

I called our local Goodman distribution wharehouse and confirmed that if I have a valid HVAC license, I can get pricing and buy Goodman equipment.

I then email Goodman manufacturing and was able to confirm this as well.

You do NOT need to be a contractor with a business to buy from my local Goodman distributor, but you do need to have a valid HVAC license.

So if I know of a buddy with an HVAC license, or if I pay a person with an HVAC license a few bucks, I can go with them and buy Goodman HVAC equipment :D

[beenthere]

Someone that buys one unit a year, gets one price.
Someone that buys 10 units a year gets a slightly lower price.
Someone that buys 100 units a year, gets a much lower price.
And someone that buys 1000 units a year gets a much lower price yet.

So, No, you don't know what a contractor paid/pays for the equipment. Since you don't know his discount rate.

You just gave yourself a placebo, thats all.

[joe123]

The difference in prices, or better said, the discounts in prices between buying 1 unit verses, 10,000 units a year is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING compared to the exaggerated markup contractors put on the units.

So if you want to nit-pick, no, I do NOT know exactly what the contractor paid, but I do have a VERY GOOD idea what HVAC equipment goes for and it's a lot LOT less even buying one unit.

The markup on HVAC equipment by contractors is HUGE and SUPER SIZED. :D

[beenthere]

The difference in prices, or better said, the discounts in prices between buying 1 unit verses, 10,000 units a year is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING compared to the exaggerated markup contractors put on the units.

So if you want to nit-pick, no, I do NOT know exactly what the contractor paid, but I do have a VERY GOOD idea what HVAC equipment goes for and it's a lot LOT less even buying one unit.

The markup on HVAC equipment by contractors is HUGE and SUPER SIZED. :D
The mark up on buying a 2X4 is huge and Super sized.

The mark up on a roll of toilet paper is huge and Super Sized.

The mark up on buying a computer is huge and Super Super sized(thats not a typo).

Enjoy your placebo. :D

[joe123]

Wrong with that analogy.

I can buy a 2x4 at several competing places, thus keeps prices honest.

I can buy computer parts and put them together, same thing.

Even if your analogy was correct, which is not, but let's play your game and go with it, corruption and abuse are no reason why others have to abuse and corrupt.

One field which is corrupt, are Realtors. Somone picked 6% out of the anus and said hey, that's what we charge. Now, Realtors think they are entitled to 6% commision and they only reason they keep that 6% now is due to the MLS listing which they protect firercy.

[beenthere]

Wrong with that analogy.

I can buy a 2x4 at several competing places, thus keeps prices honest.

And unless your a contractor, your paying retail for it, and not wholesale.

I can buy computer parts and put them together, same thing.

And unless your a contractor, your paying retail for it, and not wholesale.



Unless your a contractor, your only getting different prices for retail, not wholesale, so you don't know the cost.

The place that sells the 2X4 for the higher price, is still honest, they sell it for what they need to charge.

But, your atleast giving yourself that placebo.

So as long as you don't build up an immunity to your placebo, the world will continue to spin.

[joe123]

Un-Regulated.

2x4's, computer parts, and for many other items:

I do NOT need to own a business AND have a license to in order to buy any of these items.

What the HVAC industry has done, successfully I will add, is to make it so that the average person cannot buy HVAC equipment without being a contractor and having to have a business AND a valid HVAC license. So prices are artificially kept super inflated to the average consumer.

What Goodman has done, very successfully as well, is to cut the corruption so that the average consumer (in some states) can buy HVAC equipment WITHOUT needing to have a business, or be a contractor, or have a HVAC license.

In my area, Goodman WILL sell to me, the homeowner, if I have a HVAC license OR if I simply bring along a person who has a valid HVAC license.

No placebo going on here my Goodman (excuse the pun :D ), I am simply not drinking the Kool-Aid like you :D

[beenthere]

What Goodman has done, very successfully as well, is to cut the corruption so that the average consumer (in some states) can buy HVAC equipment WITHOUT needing to have a business, or be a contractor, or have a HVAC license.





Lot of brands can be bought the same way.

Do you even know if the distributor in your area is a Goodman owned, or private owned distributorship.

There is no corruption as you seem to think.

No conspiracy.

You should write a book

[joe123]

Lot of brands can be bought the same way.


No, NOT with HVAC equipment in general. The average consumer cannot go and buy Trane directly from a Trane distribution warehouse for example.




Do you even know if the distributor in your area is a Goodman owned, or private owned distributorship.


I already answer that. It is a Goodman distribution center, owned by Goodman manufacturing who sells to HVAC businesses. The only thing they require is that you have a valid HVAC license to sell to you.

I also already mentioned that you can call Goodman manufacturing and verify this for yourself. I did and I got it in writting.

With the way the economy is going and probably 8 more years of this, Goodman made the smart move and they are selling like crazy. :D

[beenthere]

No, NOT with HVAC equipment in general. The average consumer cannot go and buy Trane directly from a Trane distribution warehouse for example.

You can some states. Trane, Carrier, etc.




I already answer that. It is a Goodman distribution center, owned by Goodman manufacturing who sells to HVAC businesses. The only thing they require is that you have a valid HVAC license to sell to you.

I also already mentioned that you can call Goodman manufacturing and verify this for yourself. I did and I got it in writting.

With the way the economy is going and probably 8 more years of this, Goodman made the smart move and they are selling like crazy. :D

Goodman has always had a high sals volume.

Perhaps, you might try stating some that is unknown.
Instead of the same thing over and over.

Lot of people install them in crazy applications.

[seatonheating]

It always amazes me how these people will analyze and critique our pricing, which if you pay a little more can save you quite a bit of money on your utilities.

Yet, they will go out and spend 40K on an SUV they don't need and 200 bucks on some designer jeans with the rips already in them...:rolleyes:

[RyanHughes]

You should write a book.

I agree. He's already got written documentation from Goodman that, if you can believe it, they'll sell to licensed HVAC professionals. :D

[beenthere]

LOL.. :)

[joe123]

So funny I forgot to laugh!

Goodman is really getting to some I see :D

[beenthere]

So funny I forgot to laugh!

Goodman is really getting to some I see :D
When I did RNC, I used the Amana Distinction.
Which is a relabeled Goodman.

Goodman, isn't getting to anybody.

Just your blabbering.

[Some Dude]

Honestly , why ? Why are you guys still arguing with this 8th grader.

Joe start your own busines come back in 6 or 7 years and tell us what you think then.
Because right now your nothing but a socialist.

[Admin]

Joe123,

This is a site for contractors, not a site to bash contractors. Your post is specifically designed to incite rather than ad to the conversation. Posts such as this are the antithesis of what we want here at HVAC-Talk.

If you continue to post in this manner, your account will be removed. There will be no further notification regarding this subject.

Admin


Joe123,

You have been warned multiple times in this thread by various site Administrators, you failed to heed those warnings, your account has been removed.

HVAC-Talk Administrator

[2hot2coolme]

After reading all of that, I don't see what the hell he's doing on this site in the first place....

[houtonjr]

That guy is a bigger pain in the @ss then my ex wife

[papa_jo]

Yes, Really.

I called our local Goodman distribution wharehouse and confirmed that if I have a valid HVAC license, I can get pricing and buy Goodman equipment.

I then email Goodman manufacturing and was able to confirm this as well.

You do NOT need to be a contractor with a business to buy from my local Goodman distributor, but you do need to have a valid HVAC license.

So if I know of a buddy with an HVAC license, or if I pay a person with an HVAC license a few bucks, I can go with them and buy Goodman HVAC equipment :D

what I would like to no Joe123-- Are you installing what you are buying or is someone else installing for you?? Just because you can buy doesn't mean you can install it ..

[busterdouglas]

what I would like to no Joe123-- Are you installing what you are buying or is someone else installing for you?? Just because you can buy doesn't mean you can install it ..

Thats the scary part Papa_Jo, I think this fool has himself now convinced that he is a HVAC technician and can buy Goodman products and install them.

Prayers go out this guys neighbors that he doesnt try to install himself and blow up the neighborhood!

Thank-you for banning him and I hope he doesnt have a dynamic IP or it is not the last we have heard from him!

[joey83]

Is that a powered humidifier on the return plenum? :confused: but the install looks nice!

the equipment price is just a small fraction of the cost. maybe you should look at the wall of shame and see what a low bid will get you.

if you are ok with goodman and the customer is ok with it then everybody's happy. who cares??? everybody has their ford, chevy, dodge etc.

[jwiehagen76]

Is that a powered humidifier on the return plenum? Bypass

[2500]

Bite me you cheeky imp!:p

Open your own damn eyes!

Goodman sucks!...they sell equipment to boneheads like Joe blow above, station wagon hacks, and 3rd rate builders. If there was ever a prostitute brand, it has always been janijunk/goodman...always catering to the trash that brings down the industry and our professionalism.

They suckin piss me off! and so do goofballs like Joe blow and you too if you cant figure it out.

I hope this thread gets deleted because I hate effin goodman and all the dumbasses that think they get a bargain when they purchase the POS.

I am sick of them whoring their equipment out, I hate dealing with them and their inept staff, I cant stand the looser wanna be tradesmen that frequent their supply houses and who are always asking how to fix their sheit at the counters....as if the retarded staff had a clue.

Whats the matter with goodman?...you'll figure it out eventually.:rolleyes:
Wow you must spend alot of time in these supply houses to know so much about what goes on inside.

[howellheating]

looks good!

[coolwhip]

Wow you must spend alot of time in these supply houses to know so much about what goes on inside.
:rolleyes:Pfff
Nope, just been in the trade along time... and with time comes wisdom junior.

[2500]

:rolleyes:Pfff
Nope, just been in the trade along time... and with time comes wisdom junior.

Gotcha !! Good answer.

[younghvactech]

goodman is decent equipment. its only as good as the installer tho..that goes with every piece of equipment..they are cheap and you get what you pay for.