Was the economic crisis planned?

[air2spare]

Barack Obama's White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, told business leaders assembled by the Wall Street Journal in November that the economic crisis facing the country is "an opportunity to do things you could not do before."

That has to be one of the most chilling statements I have ever heard uttered by an American political official in my lifetime.

It ranks right up there with the transparent arrogance of Clinton administration hotshot Paul Begala's July 1998 explanation of the use of executive orders by the president to go over the heads of Congress: "Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool."

But there was even more to this quote from Emanuel. He followed up that scary and yet candid statement with this: "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste."

Every so often, an insider among the power brokers in our establishment elite let's slip an extremely telling remark. I suspect Emanuel meant exactly what he said – though he probably wishes he could take it back.

Why is it that Emanuel and other members of the Obama administration seem downright giddy about the collapse of our economy? Could it be more than the fact that it led them to power? Do they believe they can use this crisis to push through unconstitutional, immoral and draconian anti-freedom measures that will help them maintain control and power under the cover of crisis?

And, if so, is it possible this dire economic calamity was at least partly engineered by insiders from the beginning – for the purpose of enriching the elite and turning the rest of us into serfs?

I'm beginning to open my mind to just such a possibility.

It is certainly not without precedent. Way back in 1928, Edward Bernays wrote in his work, "Propaganda," the following: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government, which is the true ruling power in our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of."

Is there any doubt in your mind there is at least some truth to that statement? Is there any doubt in your mind that we can see at least some truth in that statement in American society today?

Could we have been manipulated into this financial crisis for economic gain and political power for the few? Just do some serious reading about the Great Depression if you have any doubts.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who works so well with Republicans and Democrats alike, worked with Goldman Sachs for more than two decades before ascending to his government position – and taking a huge pay cut in the process. If anyone was in a position to be one of the architects of this disaster, it was he.

He earned some $800 million during his years with Goldman Sachs. Why does someone give up that kind of wealth to become a federal government bureaucrat? Is he, in fact, still doing the bidding of his former cronies at the expense of U.S. taxpayers today?

By the end of last month, Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke had engineered loans, pledges and guarantees of more than $7.4 trillion to the financial elite that was responsible for creating the economic crisis in which we find ourselves today:

* March 11: $200 billion in loans to financial institutions
* March 16: $29 billion in loans to J.P. Morgan Chase
* July 30: $300 billion housing bill
* Sept. 7: $200 billion for the U.S. Treasury to assume Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's debt
* Sept. 16: $85 billion to AIG and $70 billion injected into the financial system
* Sept. 19: $50 billion pledged to support Money Market funds
* Sept. 29: $150 billion made available to U.S. banks and $330 billion made available to foreign banks
* Oct. 3: $700 billion in Paulson's bailout package
* Oct. 7: $1.3 trillion in purchase debt from companies
* Oct. 8: $38 billion in additional loans to AIG
* Oct. 14: $1.4 trillion in FDIC guarantees of interbank loans
* Nov. 24: $20 billion loaned to Citigroup with the Treasury Department assuming responsibility for 90 percent of Citigroup's $306 billion in debt
* Nov. 25: $600 billion in loans for mortgage-backed assets and $200 billion in loans for consumer-backed assets

There's likely a lot more of this on the way.

Is any of it working? Is the economy better off today than it was before this spending spree? If you want an answer, just try getting a loan.

I don't like conspiracy theories, but we sure have a lot of people in positions of power who see crises as opportunities.

They don't mean opportunities for you.

They mean opportunities for them.

[jpsmith1cm]

While I find Rahm's ststements as chilling as you do, along with a statement made by Obama that "only government" can stop the economic cycle, I don't believe that this is a manufactured.

That is the same sort of thinking that leads to George Bush blowing up the twin towers.

I do believe that the big government liberals are going to jump all over this and tax our economy to death over the coming years.

[air2spare]

That is the same sort of thinking that leads to George Bush blowing up the twin towers.
.

As long as citizens think that all these problems are created or solved with partisan politics you are only assured of more of the same. I think there is very little difference in Bush or Barack...both are mere puppets on strings.

[jpsmith1cm]

On that, we can agree.

I don't think that Bush blew up the tower, nor do I think that Barack had anything to do with the current financial crisis.

[homersodyssey]

I wouldn't give any politician that much credit.

As much as I'd prefer not to, I have to say that I saw this coming.

Many of you probably did too. How many times over the past few years did you sit down at the kitchen table with a family who just blew a compressor or cracked heat exchanger only to find they were broke? Now poor folk is one thing, but how many times did you make this finding in a big house with fancy cars in the driveway, all the toys (big screen televisions, jacuzzi, hi fi stereos, etc).

Many people have been living way above their means for a long time. The "Greatest Generation" saved money; the current doesn't. As business people we prepare for the inevitable ups and downs of the market, but homeowner/families haven't been. Then along comes a burp and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

No sir, Obama didn't plan or create this mess. Our greed and selfishness did. What's needed now is pain to motivate corrective behavior back to common sense and the founding principles that will guide us to recovery.

The last time an American president this left wing held office, he lasted four years only to yield to one of the greatest in history. If we are so lucky, another Reagan is not far away.

[The Doctor]

It is my opinion that it is the will of man to do the right thing, and what do we get from the process? Trillion dollar deficits, lifestyle control, "equality of outcome" initiatives which destroy natural liberty and replace it with some cheap imitation.

[The Doctor]

And let's be frank. The crisis has moved from "was it planned?" to something that resembles the present and future tenses when we just keep sitting here watching them do stuff like what is linked here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/09/AR2009010902846.html). Both Mr. Bush and Mr. Obama are in favor of government growth as a means to grow the private sector???? Yeah, sure, throw money at it.

[royc]

Of course it was planned, they produce a crisis and then they buy businesses out for penny on the dollar. Just look at the first crash, and look at whats happening today. Same scheme, same players....

Roy


"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

Mayer Amschel Rothschild

[acmanko]

Its not unusual for an outgoing President , especially a lame duck, to let economic policy falter

[wolfstrike]

the timing of this "collapse" has always been suspicious to me, right before the election.

our GDP dropped .3 %,yet many companies used this opportunity to fire people.
most businesses are still pulling massive profits.


since left-wing politics offers nothing good for the country, the only way these people can hold power is by making the public believe in scams.

if socialist business leaders joined together and fired large amounts of people on purpose, how would we know it was planned?

[Snoring Beagle]

Of course it was planned, they produce a crisis and then they buy businesses out for penny on the dollar. Just look at the first crash, and look at whats happening today. Same scheme, same players....

Roy


"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

Mayer Amschel Rothschild


You guys who want to make political hay out of this are fooling yourselves.

Royc is on the money. Money buys left and right, political parties both want it and need it. Wise up.

[the mojo]

As long as citizens think that all these problems are created or solved with partisan politics you are only assured of more of the same. I think there is very little difference in Bush or Barack...both are mere puppets on strings.

air2spare, You are the 100% correct.

We as a nation are in the destabilization phase of economic break down.

China has already stated that they intend to reduce the buying up of our debt.They have their own economic problems to contend with.

As a result of government spending Japan as a nation has seen a drop in per capita income and as a result of said spending they have been surpassed by
Austria,Australia,Belgium,Canada,Denmark,Finland,I reland,Holland,Switzerland,Sweden and of course the US.

Bush and Barack are just what they are suits nothing more nothing less.

[Snoring Beagle]

Bush and Barack are just what they are suits nothing more nothing less.

Correcto mundo, mojo.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken

[Richard Kletty]

It wasnt manufactured and its important to not look a manufactured scenario anyway. Whats important to look at in the OP is Mr "God with us"'s statement that you dont waste these things.

Its all about control and this is how they achieve it. Ben Franklin said, and I paraphrase, "Men who will give up liberty for security, deserve neither"

That is whats going on right in our faces. Get off your asses and get busy. Write your legislators on every issue that comes up that is most important to you. I dont have to tell you this, you already know. Were in the **** were in because the people have not stood up against these lawyers.

Yes, Ive become a political activist during the course of the last few months.

Im doing something. Are you? </rant>

[royc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pVV4n2lKHk

Roy

[acmanko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pVV4n2lKHk

Roy

Would you rather have every bank in the country printing money like it used to be. who would you have cried to if your Wachovia money was worthless?

[royc]

Would you rather have every bank in the country printing money like it used to be. who would you have cried to if your Wachovia money was worthless?

I'm sorry, I have no idea how this relates to the youtube piece, please explain better.

Roy

[RoBoTeq]

Its not unusual for an outgoing President , especially a lame duck, to let economic policy falter
President Bush has never behaved as a lame duck president nor has he been innafective as a lame duck president would be.

[Snoring Beagle]

President Bush has never behaved as a lame duck president nor has he been innafective as a lame duck president would be.

Great to see the 20 or so percent still alive and kicking! :D

[RoBoTeq]

Great to see the 20 or so percent still alive and kicking! :D
I may be a dying cockroach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9JHQmdR-tM but I ain't dead yet:cool:

[clintkennon]

Politicians will take advantage of any economy, good and bad. Its in their nature to be sleazy.

As far as the crises being planned I feel it was bound to happen. We've been trying to put 10 lbs of poop in a 5 lb bag for a long time. Down turns in the economy are a natural occurrence that keep things balanced. Just like the bull market wont last for ever neither will this.

[RoBoTeq]

Politicians will take advantage of any economy, good and bad. Its in their nature to be sleazy.

As far as the crises being planned I feel it was bound to happen. We've been trying to put 10 lbs of poop in a 5 lb bag for a long time. Down turns in the economy are a natural occurrence that keep things balanced. Just like the bull market wont last for ever neither will this.
I have a bad feeling that President Obama is going to "stimulate" our economy by creating literally millions of government jobs which will fall under organized labor, thus paying up his debt to the unions. This will temporarily boost our economy by raising it to a level high enough that when the funds run out, that wave will come crashing down on us and possibly drown us for good.

[acmanko]

what makes you think obama has a debt to Unions, he raised most of his money with donations from the web, if anything , he has a debt to ordinary people. which excludes the likes of you:rolleyes:

[Snoring Beagle]

Robo you wouldn't ask a dying man his political persuasion before offering him a glass of water would you?

You think the worst at times.

[RoBoTeq]

what makes you think obama has a debt to Unions, he raised most of his money with donations from the web, if anything , he has a debt to ordinary people. which excludes the likes of you:rolleyes:
Well, first let's see how Obama felt about union campaigns during the primaries;
Special interests In January, the Obama (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Barack+Obama?tid=informline) campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/John+Edwards+(Politician)?tid=informline) as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR2008022402094.html

Now, what do the unions have to say about this;
SEIU's political action committee, SEIU Committee on Political Education, has given $13.53 million to Barack Obama's Democratic presidential campaign and another $3.16 million to oppose Republican John McCain's campaign, according to federal disclosure reports.
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/the_state_worker/2008/10/column-extra-your-money-and-pr.html

Here the union throws their support for Obama by organizing workers as Obama supporters;
The A.F.L.-C.I.O., which endorsed Senator Barack Obama for president last month, announced on Tuesday that it would begin sending fliers to union members to dispel what it says are false rumors about him.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/union-takes-on-obama-rumors/
Anyone who tries to dispute that labor unions have not put as much time, energy and money into the Obama election campaign just needs to take themselves out of the gene pool.

[RoBoTeq]

Robo you wouldn't ask a dying man his political persuasion before offering him a glass of water would you?

You think the worst at times.
I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Mark Anderson]

My union mail was petty much 100% for Obama. I can't remember when any Union supported any conservatives in recent history. What any politician will do depends on his or her core beliefs - if they have any.

[the mojo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pVV4n2lKHk

Roy

No one paid any attention to your post but the mojo did.;)

[royc]

No one paid any attention to your post but the mojo did.;)

Well thats good, cause we need many more patriots to make a real change with this sleazeball goverment, and at least pay attention to the few who realy care.

Even Obama "wee need change", knows were in deep $hit now, he's waking up to reality. And what does he do, hires the same sleazeballs that got us in to this mess...its funny, if it wasnt so sad.

When are people going to wake up.

Going to get a lot rougher, we aint seen bottom yet.

Roy

[The Doctor]

what makes you think obama has a debt to Unions, The unions themselves. At our first meeting after the election they made no bones about how they helped him get elected, and that he would be kicking some cabbage(read:work) our way.
he raised most of his money with donations from the web, if anything , he has a debt to ordinary people. which excludes the likes of you:rolleyes:

It just shows to go ya. :D

[RoBoTeq]

The unions themselves. At our first meeting after the election they made no bones about how they helped him get elected, and that he would be kicking some cabbage(read:work) our way.

It just shows to go ya. :D
It is amazing how the media sold that "everyman" contribution BS isn't it? They no doubt got that from the success that Howard Dean had with Internet based donations during his bid for election.

Big money still drives political candidates. That is not going to be something that will "change" in the near future.

[acmanko]

It is amazing how the media sold that "everyman" contribution BS isn't it? They no doubt got that from the success that Howard Dean had with Internet based donations during his bid for election.

Big money still drives political candidates. That is not going to be something that will "change" in the near future.
so, where did the big money that got Bush selected come from?

[RoBoTeq]

so, where did the big money that got Bush selected come from?
I would think the oil companies, which gives heavily to both parties but I believe a little more to Republicans, financial institutions which do the same with both parties and wealthy individuals. Don't really know for certain, but every politician owes somebody.

[acmanko]

I would think the oil companies, which gives heavily to both parties but I believe a little more to Republicans, financial institutions which do the same with both parties and wealthy individuals. Don't really know for certain, but every politician owes somebody.
So their pay back was oil at 147.00 a barrel till the day Obama got elected and then a contrived Credit Crisis which has lined the pockets of Finacial institutions CEO,s.

I believe the working man deserves something this go round

[Gib's Son]

I don't like conspiracy theories, but we sure have a lot of people in positions of power who see crises as opportunities.

They don't mean opportunities for you.

They mean opportunities for them.

"Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky......"create a crisis and capitalize on it". He also say's over and over again to pretend to be on the side of the idle class so you can accomplish your agenda. Our Pres Elect uses many of the strategies out this book and has even used some of the same exact wording.

Was it fabricated? I have know idea, but seriously, how can they be so stupid? They are doing the same thing the Romans did, Germany did, Zimbabwee.

[Snoring Beagle]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Pardon me please, I should just stay out of ARP cause it reminds me of that old saying....

It's like the weather everybody talks about it but can't do anything about it.

The real play is what that Rothschild fella said; Give me control over a country's money and I care not who makes the laws.

It's a waste of time and energy to argue about "The Weather" and leave the real gangsters alone.

[RoBoTeq]

So their pay back was oil at 147.00 a barrel till the day Obama got elected and then a contrived Credit Crisis which has lined the pockets of Finacial institutions CEO,s.

I believe the working man deserves something this go round
While American oil companies certainly benefited from the oil price increases (8% of a lot is much better then 8% of less), it was Middle Eastern oil cartels that manipulated the oil prices.

[acmanko]

While American oil companies certainly benefited from the oil price increases (8% of a lot is much better then 8% of less), it was Middle Eastern oil cartels that manipulated the oil prices.
I think it was Bernie Madoff, trying to make big returns , so he could continue his scam.

[RoBoTeq]

Pardon me please, I should just stay out of ARP cause it reminds me of that old saying....

It's like the weather everybody talks about it but can't do anything about it.

The real play is what that Rothschild fella said; Give me control over a country's money and I care not who makes the laws.

It's a waste of time and energy to argue about "The Weather" and leave the real gangsters alone.
Well, aside from the fact that we obviously cannot "do" anything about world issues, I still have no clue what you are talking about.

BUT! We do have the right to discuss how we feel about world issues and you or no one else has any right to try to tell us what we can or cannot discuss....within the forum rules.

[RoBoTeq]

I think it was Bernie Madoff, trying to make big returns , so he could continue his scam.
Could be. Might also be George Soros trying to rule the world.

[acmanko]

Could be. Might also be George Soros trying to rule the world.You must like Fox news:rolleyes:

[air2spare]

so, where did the big money that got Bush selected come from?

He didn't need much money after two tours with Slick Willie!

[RoBoTeq]

You must like Fox news:rolleyes:
I don't watch news programs on TV. I get my news from the voices in my head.

[acmanko]

STFU is not news, its your conscience telling you to simmer down:D

[RoBoTeq]

STFU is not news, its your conscience telling you to simmer down:D
I seem to have missed this gem:cool:

It made me laugh:D

[acmanko]

I seem to have missed this gem:cool:

It made me laugh:D
well, I was trying to make you laugh, I thought , at first, You did not understand

[mrs reb77]

I don't watch news programs on TV. I get my news from the voices in my head.

ac knows about those as well!

[k-fridge]

well, I was trying to make you laugh, I thought , at first, You did not understand
You missed your birthday party.


http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=197922

[acmanko]

ac knows about those as well!but I CAN control them, to a degree at least.:o