Do You "Merry Christmas" Everyone?

[homersodyssey]

Allow me to preface this question by assuring one and all that as a practicing Christian, I am insulted and saddened by the secularization of Christmas. What is suppose to be a celebration of our Saviour's birth has been reduced to a party of materialism and perhaps even paganism.

The practice of 'X'ing out Christ is the ultimate slap in the face to all Christians and doesn't happen in any other situation. You don't wish someone a 'Happy X-Giving, 'X-Day', or 'X of July', all of which have as many letters as 'Christ' so I don't buy the shortform defence.

However, I've noticed lately that when I wish a fellow practicing Christian a 'Merry Christmas' I use much more sincerity and emphasis than with others. In shopping malls, business, or someone on the street, a 'Merry Christmas' may just be a traditional or polite exchange. With a fellow believer there is an underlining understanding of what the greeting actually means.

This revelation has led me to question whether I should be throwing blanket 'Merry Christmas' to anyone I come in contact with or should it be reserved for those who get it, so to speak. Am I over-thinking or do others feel the same way?

[corny]

I would say that for probably 90 percent....but ll give in to 75 percent......of the people who celebrate christmas that Jesus is probably the last thought that crosses their minds when they think about "christmas"

[Mr Bill]

I for one have never suggested that Christmas is a Law of God. Some have said that it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath, and some have gone a step further and said it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath on Saturday. Not celebrating Christmas is not a sin, yet it has been strongly suggested that celebrating it is by some. If you do not celebrate Christmas I'm ok with that. In fact, I can safely say that I don't care because it's not really any of my business. Don't celebrate it. Especially if you can not celebrate it without sinning against your own conscience.

Everyone here knows well most here know that December 25th isn't Jesus birthday. The wise men were not there at the stable. Santa Claus is a cartoon character, and Rudolf is in my freezer. We get it. So what? Christmas is a day that many of us set aside in order to celebrate and rejoice in the fact that Jesus Christ left His throne in Heaven in order to come down here and give His life for a wretch like me... a chief of sinners. We could do it on March 13, or August 21... but we do it on Dec 25. There is no law in scripture for it, and there is NO law in scripture against it.

I personally don't think about paganism or Catholicism or the pope when I think of Christmas. I don't think about Catholic expansionism... or whatever. If those are the things that pop into your mind when you think of Christmas, then perhaps you need to get your mind on God and off of the world. I say that with all due respect. I'm not coming against anyone, but too many times Christians are so pre-occupied with the evil of this world, and demons behind every bush that they miss out on the abundant life in Christ, the joy that we are promised when we keep our eyes on HIM. Believe it or not, just because you cant think about Christmas without seeing anything but paganism doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.


I've said it before, and since we're basking in redundancy right now... I'll say it again: If you celebrate Christmas please respect those who do not. If you do not celebrate Christmas, please respect those of us who do. After all... no one's salvation is judged by God based upon whether or not they celebrated Christmas. There is freedom and grace in this issue and it's about time people started to understand that. If someone says to me that they don't celebrate a day called "Christmas" but rather they celebrate Jesus every day of the year, I have absolutely no problem with that. I will go on celebrating Christmas on December 25th, and I will go on loving my brother who does not celebrate that day.


I will leave my thoughts with these scriptures:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day

The kingdom of God does not lie in the observance of outward things, but in internal ones, in righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


Romans 14:1 says Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters and James 4:11 says Speak not one against another, brethren.

[homersodyssey]

Bill,

There are a couple points in your post I don't understand and would appreciate you clarifying.

- are you saying some Christians don't celebrate Christmas?
- what is Catholic expansionism?

I'm not suggesting everyone has to celebrate Christmas. The intention or spirit of Christmas should be about Christ's birth but has been hijacked by materialism and other worldly distractions. I'd rather not wish everyone I come into contact with a 'Merry Christmas' unless I know they celebrate the original meaning.

[bootlen]

Great post, Bill. I think I agree with virtually each point.

[bootlen]

I put a sign up in our offise:

"We say Merry CHRISTmas.

So sue us."

[model m-man]

Most times I just tell folk's to have a good Christmas. I think it's a little more personal, but that's just me. It alway's saddens me to see someone use the X.

Seventh Day Adventist & Jewish Christians don't celebrate Christmas. That's their privelige, but their kids often feel left out.

[the mojo]

To any one I know the extension of my hand, a look right in their eyes and a firm hand shake and smile will get from me. Merry Christmas.

To folks I don't know, when they say happy holidays, a happy holidays is returned and then a Merry Christmas is also returned. Even if its not returned is not a matter to me.

[RoBoTeq]

To be cordially social, I will wish all a Merry Christmas this time of year.

I used to think the way you do homer, in that I resented the Xing out Christ from Christmas. Now, after much study of the origins and rituals of Christmas, it would be more appropriate to remove Christ from this Pagan holy day altogether. There is nothing about Christ in Christmas that is accurate historically or Biblically.

The date in which the alleged birth of Jesus took place is Biblically not in December. December 25 was the celebration of Saturnalias in honor of the god of the crops, Saturn. The celebration of the birth of persons was not adhered to by either Jews or by early Christians. Only the death of a remarkable person was noteworthy.

Here are some early comments on the celebration of Christmas;



“Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…
The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt.”
“Pagan customs centring round the January calends gravitated to Christmas.”
Under a chapther called “Natal Day,” “…In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world” .
These quotes are from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under “Christmas”. Odd how a practice originating from Roman Paganism and propogated by the Roman Catholic Church came to be condemned by that same church, but only for a short period of time.

[homersodyssey]

Christmas is not a pagan festival, Robo, move on.

Thanks for giving me your perspective on the question of this thread though.

[glennac]

I would like to make a point. Jesus was born and what particular day shouldn't get everyone all wrapped up in a fit. Even if we do not know what "day" it was we do know what year and anyhow we do need to choose a day and celebrate it and Christmas has been chosen and everyone who doesn't like it need to get over it unless you can come up with a better date that the majority agree on.

You are playing into the anti Christian's hands if you can't celebrate a "Christian" holiday for what ever reason. Already they have taken prayer out of public school. When I went to school in Tennessee we had daily prayer and Bible reading for one half an hour once a week. If your parents for whatever reason didn't want you to participate then you didn't go. Life was better back then before the ACLU and the NEA destroyed our public school system.

Also my feeling about Christmas also pertains to Easter. These are now Christian Holidays and no longer pagan holidays in my book and should be treated as such unless again someone can come up with a better date that the majority agrees on then get over it and celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection from the dead.

[coolwhip]

The customs of Christmas predate the birth of Jesus. Celebrating December 25th comes from Rome when they celebrated the god Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.
It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died. These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

When we celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Paganism as well!:)

Too bad you Christians couldnt be more creative...you had to steel pagan holidays and build your churches on pagan shrines.

A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.
When Martin Luther started the reformation on October 31st, 1517, and other reformers followed his lead, all of them took with them the paganism that was so firmly imbedded in Rome.... these reformers left Christmas intact.
In England, as the authorized Bible became available to the common people by the decree of King James the II in 1611, people began to discover the pagan roots of Christmas, which are clearly revealed in Scripture.

I like to celebrate Christmas for its pagan traditions, the wifey likes to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

So, Merry Christmas from the Coolwhip family!

[corny]

When confronted with a generic "Happy Holidays" greeting or some other generic greeting meant to not offend maybe 1 person out of 100,000.... you should go ahead and respond with a ..........

"Merry Christmas to you and remember that Jesus is the reason for the season"

[absoair]

The customs of Christmas predate the birth of Jesus. Celebrating December 25th comes from Rome when they celebrated the god Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.
It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died. These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

When we celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Paganism as well!:)

Too bad you Christians couldnt be more creative...you had to steel pagan holidays and build your churches on pagan shrines.

A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.
When Martin Luther started the reformation on October 31st, 1517, and other reformers followed his lead, all of them took with them the paganism that was so firmly imbedded in Rome.... these reformers left Christmas intact.
In England, as the authorized Bible became available to the common people by the decree of King James the II in 1611, people began to discover the pagan roots of Christmas, which are clearly revealed in Scripture.

I like to celebrate Christmas for its pagan traditions, the wifey likes to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

So, Merry Christmas from the Coolwhip family!

Not steal, transform or convert, to turn from evil! To make that day good. I celebrate the Christ in Christmas. Now its turned into the economy depending on those sales, So' people aren't willing to step on toes by advertising Merry Christmas from fear of boycotting. If I see Happy Holidays, I move on to the next. I think I would rather buy from a none holiday advertiser than one that straddles the fence.

[glennac]

Not steal, transform or convert, to turn from evil! To make that day good. I celebrate the Christ in Christmas. Now its turned into the economy depending on those sales, So' people aren't willing to step on toes by advertising Merry Christmas from fear of boycotting. If I see Happy Holidays, I move on to the next. I think I would rather buy from a none holiday advertiser than one that straddles the fence.

You are absolutely correct. Stores with "Merry Christmas" will get my patronage before one with a PC "Happy Holidays" greeting. You hit the nail on the head with that post.:)

[mrs reb77]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

Etymology

The word Christmas originated as a compound meaning "Christ's Mass". It is derived from the Middle English Christemasse and Old English Cristes mæsse, a phrase first recorded in 1038.[3] "Cristes" is from Greek Christos and "mæsse" is from Latin missa. In early Greek versions of the New Testament, the letter Χ (chi), is the first letter of Christ. Since the mid-16th century Χ, or the similar Roman letter X, has been used as an abbreviation for Christ.[7] Hence, Xmas is often used as an abbreviation for Christmas.


Seriously folks, we should be tolerant of others even if they aren't of us and our usage of Merry Christmas. Do unto others--not reciprocate their actions. I say Merry Christmas as well as Happy Holidays. Generally use the H.H. before Thanksgiving and after Christmas and use Merry Christmas in the middle!
Many people have lost the real meaning of Christmas, this is actually nothing new. How many of you were more thrilled about attending church on Christmas morning (or Christmas eve) than you were about opening up your presents as a child?

[Mr Bill]

How many of you were more thrilled about attending church on Christmas morning (or Christmas eve) than you were about opening up your presents as a child?

As a child? I was more thrilled about opening up my presents, just being truthful, My Dad
was 6' 4" 250# Mr. Bill learned "not to lie" way back yonder. :eek:

[RoBoTeq]

Christmas is not a pagan festival, Robo, move on.

Thanks for giving me your perspective on the question of this thread though.
Show me where Christmas has anything to do with Biblical Christ and then dispute my claims that it indeed is a Pagan holiday perpetuated by the Catholic Church.

All I ask for is something to support your claims. I show support for what I claim, I just ask for rebutals to also have support. That way, I can make a more intelligent, informed decision as to whether I may be wrong or not.

I cannot find anything in this concise blog about Christmas that is not true, so let's use it for our lessen on Christmas. Here is an excerp;


You, as a Christian, would want to worship the Lord in Spirit and in truth, discerning good from evil.
The truth is that all of the customs of Christmas pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ, and a study of this would reveal that
Christmas in our day is a collection of traditions and practices taken from many cultures and nations.
The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.
This was done long before the birth of Jesus. http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract3.html

[RoBoTeq]

I would like to make a point. Jesus was born and what particular day shouldn't get everyone all wrapped up in a fit. Even if we do not know what "day" it was we do know what year and anyhow we do need to choose a day and celebrate it and Christmas has been chosen and everyone who doesn't like it need to get over it unless you can come up with a better date that the majority agree on.

You are playing into the anti Christian's hands if you can't celebrate a "Christian" holiday for what ever reason. Already they have taken prayer out of public school. When I went to school in Tennessee we had daily prayer and Bible reading for one half an hour once a week. If your parents for whatever reason didn't want you to participate then you didn't go. Life was better back then before the ACLU and the NEA destroyed our public school system.

Also my feeling about Christmas also pertains to Easter. These are now Christian Holidays and no longer pagan holidays in my book and should be treated as such unless again someone can come up with a better date that the majority agrees on then get over it and celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection from the dead.
I have no problem picking a day to commemorate the birth of Jesus, even though the birth of a person meant nothing to those of the time of Jesus or even until relatively recent times.

But why do we want to associate our Lord's birth with Pagan dates and Pagan rituals? Just where do you think those factors came from? God? Oh yea, God is going to promote His enemies views.:rolleyes:

We could just as easily pick a nice Autumn time of year (closer to scriptures description of the time of year Jesus would have been born) for Jesus's birth, September 28 sounds good to me:D. For Easter, we should be staying with the Jews with Passover celebrations since Jesus is the sacrificial lamb whose blood can save us all for eternity.

[RoBoTeq]

The customs of Christmas predate the birth of Jesus. Celebrating December 25th comes from Rome when they celebrated the god Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.
It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died. These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

When we celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Paganism as well!:)

Too bad you Christians couldnt be more creative...you had to steel pagan holidays and build your churches on pagan shrines.

A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.
When Martin Luther started the reformation on October 31st, 1517, and other reformers followed his lead, all of them took with them the paganism that was so firmly imbedded in Rome.... these reformers left Christmas intact.
In England, as the authorized Bible became available to the common people by the decree of King James the II in 1611, people began to discover the pagan roots of Christmas, which are clearly revealed in Scripture.

I like to celebrate Christmas for its pagan traditions, the wifey likes to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

So, Merry Christmas from the Coolwhip family!
All very accurate cooly, except for the "you Christians" part:cool:. There are many of us who follow Christ who do not accept the Pagan influences of the Roman Catholic Church, thank you very much.

I don't even have a problem with having a party for Saturn as long as it's not using my Lord and Saviour to promote it. I don't believe all Pagans are evil, just not understanding of God is all.

[RoBoTeq]

Not steal, transform or convert, to turn from evil! To make that day good. I celebrate the Christ in Christmas. Now its turned into the economy depending on those sales, So' people aren't willing to step on toes by advertising Merry Christmas from fear of boycotting. If I see Happy Holidays, I move on to the next. I think I would rather buy from a none holiday advertiser than one that straddles the fence.
Sounds to me like evil won the day;)

[coolwhip]

All very accurate cooly, except for the "you Christians" part:cool:. There are many of us who follow Christ who do not accept the Pagan influences of the Roman Catholic Church, thank you very much.

I don't even have a problem with having a party for Saturn as long as it's not using my Lord and Saviour to promote it. I don't believe all Pagans are evil, just not understanding of God is all.


Cmon now Robo, you know I always throw a dig in there somewhere. It helps to keep things spicey!;)

[glennac]

Yeah robo you must get nose bleed a lot. Riding on that high horse all the time. Kinda lonely up there too I suspect.:D:)

[RoBoTeq]

Cmon now Robo, you know I always throw a dig in there somewhere. It helps to keep things spicey!;)
Hmmm, I never thought of posting something just to get a reaction:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Yeah robo you must get nose bleed a lot. Riding on that high horse all the time. Kinda lonely up there too I suspect.:D:)
Once again, I have no clue as to what you are talking about. I never consider myself better then anyone when it comes to overall worth in this world. Unlike some here who would eliminate others because they don't think the same, dress the same or have the same values.

[acmanko]

Nothing like a good pagan holiday to end the year and prepare for the next. I prefer the pagan holiday for spring, the sex is better.

[glennac]

Once again, I have no clue as to what you are talking about. I never consider myself better then anyone when it comes to overall worth in this world. Unlike some here who would eliminate others because they don't think the same, dress the same or have the same values.

It's the Christmas Holidays and every Christmas you go into a tizzy about it being a "pagan" holiday. Maybe 2,000 years ago it "was" but now it is Christmas and just let it go. Like I said before if you or anyone else can come up with a consensus that the majority will support then go ahead but otherwise let's have a "Merry Christmas" and let the rest of the non believers and pagans suck it up if they feel "offended" by a Christian holiday.

It really don't bother me as a Protestant that the Catholic Church set it up because my church and every other church which my friends and relatives attend celebrate Christ's birth on Christmas. I never get "offended" by other religious or non religious holidays and so why should anyone get "offended" by ours. That is all I am saying and have been trying to say there robo. Have a Merry Christmas and a happy new year for you and yours with no offense intended.:)

[homersodyssey]

I think glen might be referring to that morally superior high horse you're riding on. Perhaps your disdain for the Catholic Church is due to your perception of it as a competitor. With your on-line ordination and a forum to preach in, you proclaim to know the Truth and offer teachings just like any other religion does.

This tread was created to get feedback on using "Merry Christmas" as a general greeting or reserved for known fellow believers in Christ. I didn't think it would become an opportunity for more of your Catholic-bashing but I clearly underestimated your loathing.

You are correct about one thing, Jesus didn't tell us to celebrate His birthday (at least not in any of the four active Gospels). But of all the people in your life, (family, friends, colleagues) is there anyone more deserving of a birthday party than our Saviour? He didn't tell us not to celebrate His birthday.

Christmas is not a pagan festival; it is a celebration of Christ's birth (do you need me to quote the scripture passages citing His birth?). Perhaps the Church picked a pagan festival date for the official celebration of Christ's birth in attempt to convert them, making it easier to switch. Or perhaps that date was selected to symbolize Christ as our light and guide to follow. And maybe He actually did arrive on the same date as a pagan festival. Gasp!

Paganism was (and perhaps still is) a formidable competitor to the early Church and many attempts were made to defend our faith against theirs. Example: St. Bonaface took the Germanic pagans Thor's Oak symbol and replaced it with the Jesse Tree (Isiah 11:1 " A shoot will spring forth from the stump of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots."). He cut their tree down and when a new one grew back many pagans converted to Christianity.

I'm going out on a limb here and wish you a Merry Christmas Robo. It's not to insult you or suggest the Templar Knights are coming to get you or anything evil like that. I think the spirit of Christmas (peace) is a present you deserve.

[bootlen]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Except you, Robo. Just enjoy your time off.;)

[homersodyssey]

The customs of Christmas predate the birth of Jesus. Celebrating December 25th comes from Rome when they celebrated the god Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.
It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died. These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

When we celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Paganism as well!:)

Using that 'logic', if you are older than I and we share the same birthday, my family and friends are actually honoring you when they throw me a birthday party.

If the Christian holiday of Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth, how can that be perceived as a pagan festival? Because the dates are the same? If there is anything pagan about Christmas it's the worship of the materialism god that has crept into it.

At one time most of the world was pagan. To spread the Good News meant many had to be converted. If stealing some of their festival dates was required then I'm ok with that. Too bad for their party, very good for their souls.

[coolwhip]

As the Bible clearly states in Jeremiah 10:2-4, "Thus saith the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen; and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven. For the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain. For one cutteth a tree out of the forest. The work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold. They fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not."

So, what is wrong with Christmas?

1. To say that Jesus was born on December 25th is a lie! The true date is sometime in September according to the Scriptures.

2. Trees, wreaths, holly, mistletoe and the like are strictly forbidden as pagan and heathen! To say that these are Christian or that they can be made Christian is a lie!

3. The Lord never spoke of commemorating his birth but rather commanded us to remember the sacrifice of His suffering and death, which purchased our salvation.

Think about it! Can we worship and honor God by involving ourselves with customs and traditions, which God Himself forbade as idolatry? Can we convince God to somehow "Christianize" these customs and the whole pretense and lie of Christmas, so we can enjoy ourselves? Can we obey through disobedience?

So what is right about Christmas?

1. Nothing!.....except for the fact that its a Pagan holiday!:):p


Now dont be hatin...Coolwhip still luvs yall (even though you think Im a northern bastard) and still says Merry Christmas!

http://e.imagehost.org/0209/cross.gif

BTW...this is a pagan symbol. :)

[RoBoTeq]

It's the Christmas Holidays and every Christmas you go into a tizzy about it being a "pagan" holiday. Maybe 2,000 years ago it "was" but now it is Christmas and just let it go. Like I said before if you or anyone else can come up with a consensus that the majority will support then go ahead but otherwise let's have a "Merry Christmas" and let the rest of the non believers and pagans suck it up if they feel "offended" by a Christian holiday.

It really don't bother me as a Protestant that the Catholic Church set it up because my church and every other church which my friends and relatives attend celebrate Christ's birth on Christmas. I never get "offended" by other religious or non religious holidays and so why should anyone get "offended" by ours. That is all I am saying and have been trying to say there robo. Have a Merry Christmas and a happy new year for you and yours with no offense intended.:)
And I wish only the best for you and yours as well Glenn. It's still what it is and I will continue to discuss the truth of it;)

[acmanko]

And I wish only the best for you and yours as well Glenn. It's still what it is and I will continue to discuss the truth of it;)you cannot discuss the truth of it when you are wrong.
you have reached the forth stage of aging
1st stage- belief in Santa Claus
2nd stage- disbelief in Santa Claus
3rd stage - pretend to be Santa Claus
4th stage- beginning to look like Santa Claus- old, fat and grey

[RoBoTeq]

you cannot discuss the truth of it when you are wrong.
you have reached the forth stage of aging
1st stage- belief in Santa Claus
2nd stage- disbelief in Santa Claus
3rd stage - pretend to be Santa Claus
4th stage- beginning to look like Santa Claus- old, fat and grey
If Satan Clause were real, this would actually be accurate except for the pretending to be Satan Clause; I never lied to my children about Satan Clause.

[RoBoTeq]

I think glen might be referring to that morally superior high horse you're riding on. Perhaps your disdain for the Catholic Church is due to your perception of it as a competitor. With your on-line ordination and a forum to preach in, you proclaim to know the Truth and offer teachings just like any other religion does.

This tread was created to get feedback on using "Merry Christmas" as a general greeting or reserved for known fellow believers in Christ. I didn't think it would become an opportunity for more of your Catholic-bashing but I clearly underestimated your loathing.

You are correct about one thing, Jesus didn't tell us to celebrate His birthday (at least not in any of the four active Gospels). But of all the people in your life, (family, friends, colleagues) is there anyone more deserving of a birthday party than our Saviour? He didn't tell us not to celebrate His birthday.

Christmas is not a pagan festival; it is a celebration of Christ's birth (do you need me to quote the scripture passages citing His birth?). Perhaps the Church picked a pagan festival date for the official celebration of Christ's birth in attempt to convert them, making it easier to switch. Or perhaps that date was selected to symbolize Christ as our light and guide to follow. And maybe He actually did arrive on the same date as a pagan festival. Gasp!

Paganism was (and perhaps still is) a formidable competitor to the early Church and many attempts were made to defend our faith against theirs. Example: St. Bonaface took the Germanic pagans Thor's Oak symbol and replaced it with the Jesse Tree (Isiah 11:1 " A shoot will spring forth from the stump of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots."). He cut their tree down and when a new one grew back many pagans converted to Christianity.

I'm going out on a limb here and wish you a Merry Christmas Robo. It's not to insult you or suggest the Templar Knights are coming to get you or anything evil like that. I think the spirit of Christmas (peace) is a present you deserve.
No moral high horse for me. I stay a humbled servant of our Lord and don't teach outside of God's messages in order to better myself as a mere mortal.

I also wish you and yours a very merry Christmas, however you celebrate it. I understand and appreciate that those wishing me a merry Christmas mean only well for me, so thank you.

[RoBoTeq]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Except you, Robo. Just enjoy your time off.;)
Merry Christmas to you and yours booty. I have been enjoying the seasonal time off because I have taken myself out of the hubbub of insanity that occurs this time of year. I now get to spend more time studying my faith this time of year.

Then again, I did participate in a Hannukah dinner last night:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Using that 'logic', if you are older than I and we share the same birthday, my family and friends are actually honoring you when they throw me a birthday party.

If the Christian holiday of Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth, how can that be perceived as a pagan festival? Because the dates are the same? If there is anything pagan about Christmas it's the worship of the materialism god that has crept into it.

At one time most of the world was pagan. To spread the Good News meant many had to be converted. If stealing some of their festival dates was required then I'm ok with that. Too bad for their party, very good for their souls.
You just keep on using the devil's logic there homer. Keep justifying doing the devil's work. That's right; Satan Clause is coming....to town.;)

[bootlen]

1. To say that Jesus was born on December 25th is a lie! The true date is sometime in September according to the Scriptures.


I've never seen it in Scripture unless you are referring to "shepherds watching their flocks by night". It does get pretty dang cold in that part of the world in December. I would also agree with September or April-May time frame for that reason.

The rest I'll leave alone because it is opinion and you are entitled to it.

[bootlen]

Merry Christmas to you and yours booty. I have been enjoying the seasonal time off because I have taken myself out of the hubbub of insanity that occurs this time of year. I now get to spend more time studying my faith this time of year.

Then again, I did participate in a Hannukah dinner last night:rolleyes:

I wish our church celebrated all the Jewish holidays. We'd learn a whole lot more about our Christian heritage if we did. I personally don't know enough about them to celebrate them and do them justice.

[frostman]

I for one have never suggested that Christmas is a Law of God. Some have said that it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath, and some have gone a step further and said it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath on Saturday. Not celebrating Christmas is not a sin, yet it has been strongly suggested that celebrating it is by some. If you do not celebrate Christmas I'm ok with that. In fact, I can safely say that I don't care because it's not really any of my business. Don't celebrate it. Especially if you can not celebrate it without sinning against your own conscience.

Everyone here knows well most here know that December 25th isn't Jesus birthday. The wise men were not there at the stable. Santa Claus is a cartoon character, and Rudolf is in my freezer. We get it. So what? Christmas is a day that many of us set aside in order to celebrate and rejoice in the fact that Jesus Christ left His throne in Heaven in order to come down here and give His life for a wretch like me... a chief of sinners. We could do it on March 13, or August 21... but we do it on Dec 25. There is no law in scripture for it, and there is NO law in scripture against it.

I personally don't think about paganism or Catholicism or the pope when I think of Christmas. I don't think about Catholic expansionism... or whatever. If those are the things that pop into your mind when you think of Christmas, then perhaps you need to get your mind on God and off of the world. I say that with all due respect. I'm not coming against anyone, but too many times Christians are so pre-occupied with the evil of this world, and demons behind every bush that they miss out on the abundant life in Christ, the joy that we are promised when we keep our eyes on HIM. Believe it or not, just because you cant think about Christmas without seeing anything but paganism doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.


I've said it before, and since we're basking in redundancy right now... I'll say it again: If you celebrate Christmas please respect those who do not. If you do not celebrate Christmas, please respect those of us who do. After all... no one's salvation is judged by God based upon whether or not they celebrated Christmas. There is freedom and grace in this issue and it's about time people started to understand that. If someone says to me that they don't celebrate a day called "Christmas" but rather they celebrate Jesus every day of the year, I have absolutely no problem with that. I will go on celebrating Christmas on December 25th, and I will go on loving my brother who does not celebrate that day.


I will leave my thoughts with these scriptures:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day

The kingdom of God does not lie in the observance of outward things, but in internal ones, in righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


Romans 14:1 says Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters and James 4:11 says Speak not one against another, brethren.

You state that you don't care if someone doesn't celebrate Christmas and it's none of your business, and that I appreciate. However, it's the massive celebration of Christmas everywhere that irks some people. Now I know a large portion of the country is Christian, but should that mean people who aren't have to be constantly exposed to it? I believe that the problem is Christmas became a retail holiday, thus was pushed onto everyone, thus people who don't believe in it or don't celebrate started to fight back. I can't say I blame them.

[bootlen]

You state that you don't care if someone doesn't celebrate Christmas and it's none of your business, and that I appreciate. However, it's the massive celebration of Christmas everywhere that irks some people. Now I know a large portion of the country is Christian, but should that mean people who aren't have to be constantly exposed to it? I believe that the problem is Christmas became a retail holiday, thus was pushed onto everyone, thus people who don't believe in it or don't celebrate started to fight back. I can't say I blame them.

Kinda funny. Christmas used to not be such a big holiday. The really big one was, at one time, Easter. Thanks to Macy's T-day Parade and America's wealth, Christmas exploded due to Macy's promotional parade and the frenzy to give bigger and better gifts than anyone gave you. A one-upsmanship of sorts. Now it's just plumb out of hand. When someone dies in the greed-driven rush as happened this Black Friday, well, we just need to take stock.

[glennac]

You state that you don't care if someone doesn't celebrate Christmas and it's none of your business, and that I appreciate. However, it's the massive celebration of Christmas everywhere that irks some people. Now I know a large portion of the country is Christian, but should that mean people who aren't have to be constantly exposed to it? I believe that the problem is Christmas became a retail holiday, thus was pushed onto everyone, thus people who don't believe in it or don't celebrate started to fight back. I can't say I blame them.

What are you forced to do? You can turn the TV or radio to whatever station you want and don't have to listen to Christmas shows or music. You don't have to go to church and if someone says Merry Christmas to you, you can say Bah hum bug or whatever. You can always emigrate to Russia or Japan I don't think they celebrate much there.

Or perhaps you want the whole world to revolve around your beliefs and desires since you apparently want to be the center of the universe. Or maybe become a neighbor of robo who also doesn't celebrate Christmas or any other Christian holiday for that matter but does Jewish holidays.:)

Robo have you checked the chronological correctness of Hanukkah. You know the Old Testament isn't very accurate as far as dates go and I think a lot less accurate than the New Testament. Don't want you to be celebrating another incorrect religious holiday even if it isn't a Christian one.:) Just couldn't resist there robo you set your self up there again.:)

[bootlen]

Robo have you checked the chronological correctness of Hanukkah. You know the Old Testament isn't very accurate as far as dates go and I think a lot less accurate than the New Testament.

Actually, major dates in the NT hinge upon historical dates from the OT. For instance, the greatest event in the Bible, the crucifixion of Christ can be very specifically dated based on an OT event.

Dates in both the OT and the NT are referenced by archeologists in their search for information about ancient societies.

[sline-dawg]

Kinda sad you guys need specific dates to fulfill your spiritual side.. I don't need a special day...... Everyday on the little blue planet is good...:D


Merry Christmas from the Sline-dawg family......what ever that's worth to ya......;)

[bootlen]

Kinda sad you guys need specific dates to fulfill your spiritual side.. I don't need a special day...... Everyday on the little blue planet is good...:D


Merry Christmas from the Sline-dawg family......what ever that's worth to ya......;)

Well, thank ya, Sline and family. Back at ya!

As to the date thingy, it sorta lends credence to the claims. OT foretold the events and when those prophecies came true when they were suppose to, it also provided bona fides to the Claimant.

But if you don't need bona fides from me, I wouldn't mind doin' some bidness wit' ya...if I were into not doin' things right.

[homersodyssey]

I believe that the problem is Christmas became a retail holiday, thus was pushed onto everyone, thus people who don't believe in it or don't celebrate started to fight back. I can't say I blame them.

That's an interesting perspective. I wish it was wrong, but suspect it's not.

A few years ago I was in a store after Christmas. The clerk asked me if I was having a nice Christmas. His next question shocked me: "did you get everything you wanted?"

That's exactly why I don't issue blanket, "Merry Christmas" to everyone. If December 25 is a retail celebration for you then I'd rather keep the greeting to myself.

[sline-dawg]

Well by all means.... keep things right Len......:rolleyes:





Hope you and all yours enjoy the reason for the season.......:) We all do in our own way......

[RoBoTeq]

I wish our church celebrated all the Jewish holidays. We'd learn a whole lot more about our Christian heritage if we did. I personally don't know enough about them to celebrate them and do them justice.
Hannukah is not really a religous holiday and so it is pretty festive. It is the commemoration of the miracle of only enough lamp oil to last two days lasted eight days. Sort of comparable to driving your car tweny miles past when the gauge says you are completly out of gas, I guess.:rolleyes:

I would think that Passover at least should be honored by Christians since Jesus's Last Supper was a Passover meal. Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, is the holiest of days and one that Jesus would have reveered highly. My in-laws are not all that religious so I don't really get a thorough degree of all of the holidays of Judaism.

[RoBoTeq]

Kinda funny. Christmas used to not be such a big holiday. The really big one was, at one time, Easter. Thanks to Macy's T-day Parade and America's wealth, Christmas exploded due to Macy's promotional parade and the frenzy to give bigger and better gifts than anyone gave you. A one-upsmanship of sorts. Now it's just plumb out of hand. When someone dies in the greed-driven rush as happened this Black Friday, well, we just need to take stock.
There have been era's in Europe when Christmas celebrations were banned due to their Pagan ties and societal problems caused by Christmas celebrations.

http://www.christmasarchives.com/gbc.html

There was also a 22 year ban on Christmas in the Boston area;
"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."

From the records of the General Court,
Massachusetts Bay Colony
May 11, 1659
Even after the ban on Christmas was lifted, Christmas did not come into fashion in the Boston area again until the late 1800s.

[RoBoTeq]

Or maybe become a neighbor of robo who also doesn't celebrate Christmas or any other Christian holiday for that matter but does Jewish holidays.:)

Robo have you checked the chronological correctness of Hanukkah. You know the Old Testament isn't very accurate as far as dates go and I think a lot less accurate than the New Testament. Don't want you to be celebrating another incorrect religious holiday even if it isn't a Christian one.:) Just couldn't resist there robo you set your self up there again.:)
Ummmm, Glenn ole buddy; Hannukah is not and never has been a religious holiday. It is a celebration of Jews retaking their main Temple from the Greeks. It is more a celebration of a military victory with a minor miracle of long lasting oil thrown in.

I try not to make comments on things I have not studied. You however should be in really good physical shape with all of the "jumping" to conclusions that you do:D

[RoBoTeq]

Actually, major dates in the NT hinge upon historical dates from the OT. For instance, the greatest event in the Bible, the crucifixion of Christ can be very specifically dated based on an OT event.

Dates in both the OT and the NT are referenced by archeologists in their search for information about ancient societies.
Hannukah is only found in Bibles containing the Apocrypha books of Maccabee 1 an 2. These books are not canonized by most Christian sects and oddly enough not by Jews either. The books of Maccabee's does a nice job of covering the two to four hundred year gap between the latest Old (Hebrew) Testament writings and the New Testament. It tells of the Hellinistic era of Greek rule over the Jews in the Middle East.

[sline-dawg]

There was also a 22 year ban on Christmas in the Boston area;
Even after the ban on Christmas was lifted, Christmas did not come into fashion in the Boston area again until the late 1800s.



Legislators..... should be a season for them.....:) (bag limit of 2).. Although,they can't mandate your inner feelings or actions.....

[RoBoTeq]

Legislators..... should be a season for them.....:) (bag limit of 2).. Although,they can't mandate your inner feelings or actions.....
No, but they should be able to keep down disruptive behaviour for the general population:rolleyes:

I hate driving at night this time of year. With all of the damned lights everywhere, I can't tell what are street lights and what are Saturnalius festival lights.

[dan wong]

Hehe. As far as I can tell. I am the only wise man from the Orient in this forum.

For all who celebrate Christmas: "Merry Christmas and a happy new year"

For everyone else: I wish you "Happy Holiday and prosperous new year"

[Daltex]

Robo,

I agree with alot of what you say. I grew up in a religion that didn't allow Christmas trees in the Church because of what you seem to believe. They take it so far that they don't allow musical insturments in the worship because there is no example of it in the New Testiment. BTW: Why don't we celebrate the Passover Feast anymore?

That being said, the OP is about saying "Merry Christmas" to others verses the PC police. I say it unless I know the person is of Jewish faith and then I'll go with a "Happy Holidays".

I left my religion of 40+ years after I had a wakeup call. I used to sound like you. My Church pushed and pushed to seek the truth. I brought a person with me to Church that had never been to a Church before. The class was taught by a person that sounded alot like you. The worship service was highlighted by a sermon that sounded alot like you. My friend kindly said he wouldn't be attending again.

Jesus did alot of things that the Priests were offended by. He had the montra that if you lived by the law you would be judged by the law. The important thing to Christ was to love God and love others. Teach of the salvation through his blood. The Pharasees loved to study and quote scripture but lost their focus.

It is hard to love others and lead them to Christ when you are so consumed with the law that you will step on others to prove yourself correct. The celebration of Christmas by true Christians is indeed lacking in public perception. It is a retail celebration by most people Christian or not. I just don't think that condeming it as a sinful Satanic ritual is the best way to show love for others. There are some of us that do find peace in the fact that Christ was born. This was a step in God's plan for our salvation. I'm glad I live in a country that allows me to show my love for God's gift to us in public.

[bootlen]

Hannukah is not really a religous holiday and so it is pretty festive. It is the commemoration of the miracle of only enough lamp oil to last two days lasted eight days. Sort of comparable to driving your car tweny miles past when the gauge says you are completly out of gas, I guess.:rolleyes:

This is helpful. (Again, thanks, hearthman.)
http://www.gotquestions.org/Hanukkah-Christian.html

I would think that Passover at least should be honored by Christians since Jesus's Last Supper was a Passover meal. Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, is the holiest of days and one that Jesus would have reveered highly.

Agree 100%. God Himself puts little import on Jesus' birth. Otherwise we'd know more about it as far as time. But we DO know the exact hour of the exact day of His death and resurrection. God COMMANDS us to celebrate (remember) the events of that, His most glorious moment in the history of time.

My in-laws are not all that religious so I don't really get a thorough degree of all of the holidays of Judaism.

Too bad. I'd love to be able to experience a first-hand celebration of all the Jewish holidays. It would help bring to life the OT.

[bootlen]

Robo,

I agree with alot of what you say. I grew up in a religion that didn't allow Christmas trees in the Church because of what you seem to believe. They take it so far that they don't allow musical insturments in the worship because there is no example of it in the New Testiment. BTW: Why don't we celebrate the Passover Feast anymore?

That being said, the OP is about saying "Merry Christmas" to others verses the PC police. I say it unless I know the person is of Jewish faith and then I'll go with a "Happy Holidays".

I left my religion of 40+ years after I had a wakeup call. I used to sound like you. My Church pushed and pushed to seek the truth. I brought a person with me to Church that had never been to a Church before. The class was taught by a person that sounded alot like you. The worship service was highlighted by a sermon that sounded alot like you. My friend kindly said he wouldn't be attending again.

Jesus did alot of things that the Priests were offended by. He had the montra that if you lived by the law you would be judged by the law. The important thing to Christ was to love God and love others. Teach of the salvation through his blood. The Pharasees loved to study and quote scripture but lost their focus.

It is hard to love others and lead them to Christ when you are so consumed with the law that you will step on others to prove yourself correct. The celebration of Christmas by true Christians is indeed lacking in public perception. It is a retail celebration by most people Christian or not. I just don't think that condeming it as a sinful Satanic ritual is the best way to show love for others. There are some of us that do find peace in the fact that Christ was born. This was a step in God's plan for our salvation. I'm glad I live in a country that allows me to show my love for God's gift to us in public.


Dal, sounds like you used to be Church of Christ. It was CoC where I got my eyes opened to truth. I was teaching a Sunday School class on Ephesians. Got ot chapter 2 and WHAMMO! Nothing's been the same since. I realized how wrong CoC is.

See ya at home, Brother.

[RoBoTeq]

Hehe. As far as I can tell. I am the only wise man from the Orient in this forum.

For all who celebrate Christmas: "Merry Christmas and a happy new year"

For everyone else: I wish you "Happy Holiday and prosperous new year"
Good one dan:D

I know a Jewish guy whose initials are J.C. Oh, the irony;) I keep telling him that if I nail him to a cross and stick a spear in his side he can be famous:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Robo,

I agree with alot of what you say. I grew up in a religion that didn't allow Christmas trees in the Church because of what you seem to believe. They take it so far that they don't allow musical insturments in the worship because there is no example of it in the New Testiment. BTW: Why don't we celebrate the Passover Feast anymore?

That being said, the OP is about saying "Merry Christmas" to others verses the PC police. I say it unless I know the person is of Jewish faith and then I'll go with a "Happy Holidays".

I left my religion of 40+ years after I had a wakeup call. I used to sound like you. My Church pushed and pushed to seek the truth. I brought a person with me to Church that had never been to a Church before. The class was taught by a person that sounded alot like you. The worship service was highlighted by a sermon that sounded alot like you. My friend kindly said he wouldn't be attending again.

Jesus did alot of things that the Priests were offended by. He had the montra that if you lived by the law you would be judged by the law. The important thing to Christ was to love God and love others. Teach of the salvation through his blood. The Pharasees loved to study and quote scripture but lost their focus.

It is hard to love others and lead them to Christ when you are so consumed with the law that you will step on others to prove yourself correct. The celebration of Christmas by true Christians is indeed lacking in public perception. It is a retail celebration by most people Christian or not. I just don't think that condeming it as a sinful Satanic ritual is the best way to show love for others. There are some of us that do find peace in the fact that Christ was born. This was a step in God's plan for our salvation. I'm glad I live in a country that allows me to show my love for God's gift to us in public.
My daily prayer is to not speak or write against God's will. I only seek to follow what is written in the scriptures I believe to be of God's inspiration to men of times gone by. My only full focus is on Words attributed to Jesus Christ Himself. If this is what your church's speaker was teaching, then I am sorry you disagree with him and with me. My only desire is to spread the Word's of Jesus and of Jesus only, without interpretation but with the best understanding of the translations of those words that we can figure out from today's understanding of the times those words were written.

[RoBoTeq]

My in-laws are not all that religious so I don't really get a thorough degree of all of the holidays of Judaism.

Too bad. I'd love to be able to experience a first-hand celebration of all the Jewish holidays. It would help bring to life the OT.
I should not say that all of my inlaws are not that religious because at the breaking of the fast of Yom Kippur one of my wifes uncles, her fathers sisters husband, gets pretty othodox with the break fast meal. There is a ritualistic eating of unlevened bread, bitter greens and other foods symbolic mostly to the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt. At meals such as this, Jews always set an additional place setting for Elijah, who Jews believe is always with them during crisis and will return one day.

I like the Hannukah food much better:D

[bootlen]

I like the Hannukah food much better:D

Uhhh, I'm on board with that!

[frostman]

What are you forced to do? You can turn the TV or radio to whatever station you want and don't have to listen to Christmas shows or music. You don't have to go to church and if someone says Merry Christmas to you, you can say Bah hum bug or whatever. You can always emigrate to Russia or Japan I don't think they celebrate much there.

Or perhaps you want the whole world to revolve around your beliefs and desires since you apparently want to be the center of the universe. Or maybe become a neighbor of robo who also doesn't celebrate Christmas or any other Christian holiday for that matter but does Jewish holidays.:)

Robo have you checked the chronological correctness of Hanukkah. You know the Old Testament isn't very accurate as far as dates go and I think a lot less accurate than the New Testament. Don't want you to be celebrating another incorrect religious holiday even if it isn't a Christian one.:) Just couldn't resist there robo you set your self up there again.:)

Was I knocking Christmas? No, so try to pay attention. It is hard in a lot of places to ignore Christmas though, because it IS everywhere. You're the one that seems to want to be the center of the universe, since everyone else is wrong and you're right about everything. That or you simply can't comprehend what someone is trying to say. We ce3lebrate Christmas in my house, we just keep our celebration to ourselves, instead instead of forcing it on everyone else. Is that easy for you to comprehend?

[JRINJAX]

I wish everyone I meet, both personally and professionally, Merry Christmas. 98% of the people are delighted and return the greeting.

Included in the 2% were my Jewish Doctor and an Atheist that worked at the Wal-mart sporting goods counter.
They can both Just-Deal-With-It....

Merry Christmas Ya'll!!!!

[homersodyssey]

Was I knocking Christmas? No, so try to pay attention. It is hard in a lot of places to ignore Christmas though, because it IS everywhere.

True, but keep in mind most Western nations were built on Judeo-Christian foundations.

Try celebrating Christmas or even attending church on a Sunday in a Muslim nation.

I think the five daily calls to prayer in those nations might be a better example of "in your face". They are much more difficult to ignore.

[corny]

I got breakfast and supper thru a mcdonalds drive thru today and at both windows....both times..... the gals would not respond to my merry christmas.... they were all polite and cheerfull.....just wouldnt say merry christmas or acknowledge my merry christmas.

[glennac]

I got breakfast and supper thru a mcdonalds drive thru today and at both windows....both times..... the gals would not respond to my merry christmas.... they were all polite and cheerfull.....just wouldnt say merry christmas or acknowledge my merry christmas.

Good man corny, keep going to other places and only go back to those who are not trained to be PC. That is how to handle it. Someday they might catch on but don't give those PC jerks your business.:)

[RoBoTeq]

I got breakfast and supper thru a mcdonalds drive thru today and at both windows....both times..... the gals would not respond to my merry christmas.... they were all polite and cheerfull.....just wouldnt say merry christmas or acknowledge my merry christmas.
They probably thought you were some kind of perv;)

[glennac]

They probably thought you were some kind of perv;)

Well considering that they were working at MacDonalds, they probably wondered what the heck corny was smoking.:D:)

[homersodyssey]

It's good to hear your faith in action Corny, but I'm concerned about your dietary choices (Fast Food Nation?).

[acmanko]

well, for one thing , they are not paid to chit chat with people who are to lazy to park their car and go inside, they take orders and take money, its their job.:confused:

[bootlen]

well, for one thing , they are not paid to chit chat with people who are to lazy to park their car and go inside, they take orders and take money, its their job.:confused:

Forgot to take your pain medicine again, huh?

[acmanko]

Forgot to take your pain medicine again, huh?
well, I'm happy to report that I have been off the prescription stuff for 2 whole days, aleve and aspirin is all that polluting me now.
back to the tread, how many times have you heard or said, techs being told "do not talk to customers". are you so callous to think it only applies to HVAC:)

[bootlen]

Umm, same policy here but saying "Merry Christmas" is not exactly a conversation with technical implications, now is it?:p

[acmanko]

Umm, same policy here but saying "Merry Christmas" is not exactly a conversation with technical implications, now is it?:p what if they are not christian and decide to get your order wrong, Happy Santa.s turn in to b!tchy Busters

[glennac]

what if they are not christian and decide to get your order wrong, Happy Santa.s turn in to b!tchy Busters

Ace allow me to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy pain free New Year to you and yours.:)

[bootlen]

what if they are not christian and decide to get your order wrong, Happy Santa.s turn in to b!tchy Busters

Ummm, when you say it, you're on your way out. Already paid and got the bag.

Ya need to get back on teh hard stuff. Aspirin ain't cuttin' it.

[acmanko]

Ace allow me to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy pain free New Year to you and yours.:)
Merry Christmas to you and your Family also, Glen and have a Blessed New Year.:)

[acmanko]

Ummm, when you say it, you're on your way out. Already paid and got the bag.

Ya need to get back on teh hard stuff. Aspirin ain't cuttin' it.
not when its a double window, order at one pay at another and pick up at another.

[RoBoTeq]

I am fortunate to live in the area of Pennsyltucky where I currently live. 99% of the fast food people are nice, friendly and responsive to courteous comments.

I'm thinking maybe those who work at the windows are just reflecting the attitude of those in their vehicles back to them:rolleyes:

[bootlen]

not when its a double window, order at one pay at another and pick up at another.

Haven't you noticed? The pay window and teh pickup window don't talk to each other. Besides, they get orders wrong in July. What's different about December?

[homersodyssey]

In case it hasn't been said yet, I wish all of you a Merry Christmas. It has been very rewarding chatting with you about our Lord.

[bootlen]

That, homer, is always a pleasure...the greatest pleasure I can think of.

[tunnel_rat]

A very Merry Christmas to all of you lot..........:D

[RoBoTeq]

May God bless us, everyone:)

[chaard]

The practice of 'X'ing out Christ is the ultimate slap in the face to all Christians and doesn't happen in any other situation. You don't wish someone a 'Happy X-Giving, 'X-Day', or 'X of July', all of which have as many letters as 'Christ' so I don't buy the shortform defence.



What I find a slap in the face is that someone doesn't understand that X in Greek stands for Christ (Xristos).



Christmas is a time of great joy and symbolism for Christians around the world. It seems that every year Christians become upset with the word Xmas because they do not understand the meaning, history or symbolism of Xmas. Use of Xmas is really not an attack on the Christian celebration, as it is often perceived to be. Xmas is a historic word that is truly interchangeable with Christmas.

Xmas is a word that is interchangeable with Christmas, but the word tends to upset people who see it as a disrespectful derogatory shortening of the Christian holiday. Christians may exclaim ‘Keep the Christ in Christmas,’ not realizing that X is actually the ancient symbol for Christ.

X Stands for Christ
Xmas is derived from a mixture of Greek and English. Greeks used X as the symbol for Chi, Christo or Xristo. X is the Greek symbol for Christ. In early Christian times, X was used as the symbol for Christ himself

http://biblestudies.suite101.com/article.cfm/xmas_is_historic_christian_word_for_christmas

This is a season of giving and for people to get their feathers ruffled over Feliz Navidad or Xmas or Santa Claus has too much time on their hands to worry about such insignificant things.
Christmas wasn't even celebrated by early Americans and after the Revolutionary war it was almost history. The same reasons we complain about Christmas today have been argued for centuries. Like celebrating Jesus' birth on Dec. 25th and commercializing Christmas. None of this new and in no way is a sign that Christ is being kicked out of America. Christmas is not a physical thing. It is a spiritual thing.
If you want to celebrate it, fine. If not, then don't.
There are other Holidays that are being celebrated this time of year as well. Everyone has their own beliefs and how you celebrate Christmas or any other Holiday is your choice and your's only. Not everyone celebrates the Holidays the way you do.
I personally don't get upset at other people that say Happy Holiday's, Feliz Navidad or Xmas. I am not celebrating their religious or non-religious beliefs. I am celebrating the holiday according to my beliefs.

So, having said that, Merry Christmas.

[chaard]

You state that you don't care if someone doesn't celebrate Christmas and it's none of your business, and that I appreciate. However, it's the massive celebration of Christmas everywhere that irks some people. Now I know a large portion of the country is Christian, but should that mean people who aren't have to be constantly exposed to it? I believe that the problem is Christmas became a retail holiday, thus was pushed onto everyone, thus people who don't believe in it or don't celebrate started to fight back. I can't say I blame them.

Really, How many and who? There are millions of people that celebrate Christmas only to celebrate Christmas. No Jesus, No church, just presents on Christmas morning. Even non-believers celebrate Christmas. Who is going to deny their family gifts this time of year. I don't know of anyone. I take that back. My BIL is buying himself a video game for Christmas, no one is getting a gift from him.:eek::confused::o

[chaard]

I would think that Passover at least should be honored by Christians.

That I do agree with. Christ was the sacrificial lamb. We should be remember and be thankful that Jesus shed his blood for our sins.

[homersodyssey]

What I find a slap in the face is that someone doesn't understand that X in Greek stands for Christ (Xristos).

As I mentioned, I'm aware of the 'X' stands for Christ, but don't believe it's applicable to my point. Do the people who use this shortened version know this Greek translation? It has become a subconscious avoidance of the original reason for this festive season.

However, as there are other holy days at this time of the year, 'Happy Holidays' doesn't bother me.

This newspaper column sums it up nicely: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/12/23/lorne-gunter-chipping-away-at-christmas.aspx

[bootlen]

What I find a slap in the face is that someone doesn't understand that X in Greek stands for Christ (Xristos).



So, Chaard, do you also find it a slap in the face when a newborn cannot go potty or walk without being taught? I'm not trying to insult you but make you aware that we know nothing unless we are taught through others or through experience.

The vast majority of people, believers and non-believers alike, wouldn't know chi from rho. We all have to be taught. And in today's society which is running away from God just as fast as its legs will carry it, the word "Christ" should be spelled out (if you get the pun) as much as possible.

And, homer, I'd use the term "Xmas" to take opportunity to teach the original meaning. Try, "You know where the 'X' in 'Xmas' comes from? Let me share with you."

[RoBoTeq]

What I find a slap in the face is that someone doesn't understand that X in Greek stands for Christ (Xristos).



http://biblestudies.suite101.com/article.cfm/xmas_is_historic_christian_word_for_christmas

This is a season of giving and for people to get their feathers ruffled over Feliz Navidad or Xmas or Santa Claus has too much time on their hands to worry about such insignificant things.
Christmas wasn't even celebrated by early Americans and after the Revolutionary war it was almost history. The same reasons we complain about Christmas today have been argued for centuries. Like celebrating Jesus' birth on Dec. 25th and commercializing Christmas. None of this new and in no way is a sign that Christ is being kicked out of America. Christmas is not a physical thing. It is a spiritual thing.
If you want to celebrate it, fine. If not, then don't.
There are other Holidays that are being celebrated this time of year as well. Everyone has their own beliefs and how you celebrate Christmas or any other Holiday is your choice and your's only. Not everyone celebrates the Holidays the way you do.
I personally don't get upset at other people that say Happy Holiday's, Feliz Navidad or Xmas. I am not celebrating their religious or non-religious beliefs. I am celebrating the holiday according to my beliefs.

So, having said that, Merry Christmas.
I agree with your sentiments. I don't get upset over anyone celebrating what they believe to be part of their faith, even if the reasons are innacurate.

What bothers me is the deceit of Christmas. This is a time of year where deceit is not only perpetuated, but it is perpetuated in the alleged name of our Lord and Saviour. Not that bothers me!

What bothers me is people believing themselves to be followers of Christ participating in rituals that followed Pagan beliefs. If that is what people want to "knowingly" do, so be it, but most people are deceived into practicing Pagan rituals and do so while dragging our Lord and Saviours name into it.

As long as people actually know they are being deceitful, lying and practicing Pagan rituals, I have no problem with this time of year at all.

[RoBoTeq]

As I mentioned, I'm aware of the 'X' stands for Christ, but don't believe it's applicable to my point. Do the people who use this shortened version know this Greek translation? It has become a subconscious avoidance of the original reason for this festive season.

However, as there are other holy days at this time of the year, 'Happy Holidays' doesn't bother me.

This newspaper column sums it up nicely: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/12/23/lorne-gunter-chipping-away-at-christmas.aspx
I have to agree that the Greek X is just an "X"cuse for non-believers to get into the action of doing business at Christmas without having to promote the name of Christ.

[acmanko]

To the early Christians, Jesus was know as the Sun of Justice.
the Romans , under the rule of a pagan, realized that around Dec the 21st, the sun began giving daylight longer, after diminishing daylight had given them(pagans) the belief that their Sun God was dying. Emperor Aurelian, a Christian, decreed that in worship to the birth od Christ, the Sun of Justice, his birth would be celebrated Dec. 25th.

[k-fridge]

As I mentioned, I'm aware of the 'X' stands for Christ, but don't believe it's applicable to my point. Do the people who use this shortened version know this Greek translation? It has become a subconscious avoidance of the original reason for this festive season.

However, as there are other holy days at this time of the year, 'Happy Holidays' doesn't bother me.

This newspaper column sums it up nicely: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/12/23/lorne-gunter-chipping-away-at-christmas.aspx

The symbol is called Chi. And I agree that most who use X in place of Christ are not doing so with Chi in mind, but to make the holiday a generic, non-threatening, politically correct version.

The name of the December 25th holiday is Christmas. Each of us have the freedom to celebrate it or not, and to do so as a secular or religious event. I choose to celebrate the birth of Christ (even though it probably isn't his actual birth date), but I recognize that others may feel differently and I respect that even though I am somewhat saddened by it.

[RoBoTeq]

To the early Christians, Jesus was know as the Sun of Justice.
the Romans , under the rule of a pagan, realized that around Dec the 21st, the sun began giving daylight longer, after diminishing daylight had given them(pagans) the belief that their Sun God was dying. Emperor Aurelian, a Christian, decreed that in worship to the birth od Christ, the Sun of Justice, his birth would be celebrated Dec. 25th.
"Sun of justice" is an interpretive term used by St. Gregory of Agrigento and is taught only in Roman Catholic churches. Most likely another term to link Jesus to the Pagan sun god.

[chaard]

"This Day Is Holy"
Nehemiah 8:9Then Nehemiah, who was the (K)governor, and Ezra (L)the priest and scribe, and the Levites who taught the people said to all the people, "(M)This day is holy to the LORD your God; (N)do not mourn or weep." For all the people were weeping when they heard the words of the law.

10Then he said to them, "Go, eat of the fat, drink of the sweet, and (O)send portions to him who has nothing prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength."

11So the Levites calmed all the people, saying, "Be still, for the day is holy; do not be grieved."

12All the people went away to eat, to drink, (P)to send portions and to celebrate a great festival, (Q)because they understood the words which had been made known to them.

I think this sums up things nicely. For me at least.

[acmanko]

"Sun of justice" is an interpretive term used by St. Gregory of Agrigento and is taught only in Roman Catholic churches. Most likely another term to link Jesus to the Pagan sun god.Well, one thing is certain, if there were not Roman Catholic Churches in 300 AD , you would not be Christian today, in other words, the Romans saved Christianity from fading into history.

[bootlen]

Well, one thing is certain, if there were not Roman Catholic Churches in 300 AD , you would not be Christian today, in other words, the Romans saved Christianity from fading into history.

Nope. God did, as promised. He simply used the RCC to do it. And the RCC sorta botched it. If not for the RCC, he'd have used another method.

[acmanko]

Nope. God did, as promised. He simply used the RCC to do it. And the RCC sorta botched it. If not for the RCC, he'd have used another method.
Thats about the most ridiculous excuse I've heard. Prior to Rome's conversion from pagan to Christian, the Romans were killing christians as fast as possible, hell bent oncompletely wiping them off the face of the earth,. there was no one else

[bootlen]

Thats about the most ridiculous excuse I've heard. Prior to Rome's conversion from pagan to Christian, the Romans were killing christians as fast as possible, hell bent oncompletely wiping them off the face of the earth,. there was no one else

I never said the Romans were do-gooder Christians. God has used evil kingdoms and empires for several thousand years to accomplish His eventual long-term will. Ever here of the Pharaohs? How about the Syrians? Or the Babylonians? And there were others. They were all merely tools to God. That's right. God uses evil as a tool. And righteousness is the fruit of His labor.

AC, you really need to go back and read the Bible, dude. You apparently have NO knowledge of Christian heritage at all.

[acmanko]

I never said the Romans were do-gooder Christians. God has used evil kingdoms and empires for several thousand years to accomplish His eventual long-term will. Ever here of the Pharaohs? How about the Syrians? Or the Babylonians? And there were others. They were all merely tools to God. That's right. God uses evil as a tool. And righteousness is the fruit of His labor.

AC, you really need to go back and read the Bible, dude. You apparently have NO knowledge of Christian heritage at all.
No, you said God chose the Romans to save Christianity. that being said, unlees God makes mistakes, the Jews were his chosen people and the RCC is his chosen church. so which is is, does God err in his Judgement or is his Judgement infallible?

[bootlen]

No, you said God chose the Romans to save Christianity. that being said, unlees God makes mistakes, the Jews were his chosen people and the RCC is his chosen church. so which is is, does God err in his Judgement or is his Judgement infallible?

Nope. Again, go back and read the history of the church beginning in Acts. The Jews failed..."to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles..." was His commission to believers. The first century Jewish believers did their job. Later Jews did not. It was then put on the Gentiles to carry on. Non-believing kingdoms and empires have tried to destroy Christianity but God has stood by His word that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church." He also promised there will always be a remnant (of Jewish believers) to fulfill His promises listed in prophecy. When the church is raptured, there will be 144,000 Jewish believers left behind to witness for Him to the people of the earth. Many will die as martyrs for His cause. But they will abide by the commission given them.

Mistakes? Sure but none of them God's. He said it. He will do it...in spite of man's failures. After all, He IS God. That may be the part you don't have a handle on.

[RoBoTeq]

Well, one thing is certain, if there were not Roman Catholic Churches in 300 AD , you would not be Christian today, in other words, the Romans saved Christianity from fading into history.
Well, the fact is that there "WERE NOT" Roman Catholic Churches in 300 A.D. Emporer Constantine did not accept Christianity in the Roman Empire until 313 A.D. and did not legalize Christianity until 337 A.D.

Since the Christian faith was becoming so popular that Constantine felt the need to incorporate Christianity into the Roman Empire, I think it is safe to say that Christianity would have continued to spread, without the Roman Paganism, had Constantine not taken over the religion.

[RoBoTeq]

Thats about the most ridiculous excuse I've heard. Prior to Rome's conversion from pagan to Christian, the Romans were killing christians as fast as possible, hell bent oncompletely wiping them off the face of the earth,. there was no one else
And why do you think the great Roman Empire incorporated Christianity as the primary religioun of Rome? Because they could not defeat Christianity. Christianity was becoming more important then Rome, so Rome had to join what it could not defeat.

[RoBoTeq]

No, you said God chose the Romans to save Christianity. that being said, unlees God makes mistakes, the Jews were his chosen people and the RCC is his chosen church. so which is is, does God err in his Judgement or is his Judgement infallible?
Don't use one Christians opinions as alleged facts mancow. I don't believe God chose the Romans at all. I believe the Roman intervention into Christianity was all Satan's doings:cool:

[acmanko]

Don't use one Christians opinions as alleged facts mancow. I don't believe God chose the Romans at all. I believe the Roman intervention into Christianity was all Satan's doings:cool:
you believe and don't believe a lot of things, making you extremely confused,. such as Constantine had nothing to do with rome's conversion Aurelian did it.

[homersodyssey]

"Sun of justice" is an interpretive term used by St. Gregory of Agrigento and is taught only in Roman Catholic churches. Most likely another term to link Jesus to the Pagan sun god.

If "Sun of justice" is taught in Catholic churches they aren't doing it well as this is the first time I've heard of it.

However, after some quick research, I found the term in ... Scripture.
Malachi 3: 19-22: "For lo, the day is coming, blazing like an oven, when all the proud and all evildoers will be stubble, And the day that is coming will set them on fire, leaving them neither root nor branch, says the Lord of hosts. But for you who fear my name, there will arise the sun of justice with its healing rays; And you will gambol like calves out of the stall and tread down the wicked; They will become ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day I take action, says the Lord of hosts.

It may be interpretive to consider the term as a description of Jesus, but in context it sure sounds like He's the one being referenced.

I don't know who the pagan sun god is so again...poor teaching (sarcasm).

St. Gregory of Agrigento is also new to me, thank you Robo for the introduction; your supply of information is truly impressive. He will be new to most I assume, “This annotated translation of Leontios’ hagiography of the little-known Saint, Bishop Gregory of Agrigento, adds immeasurably to the history of medieval church history in the mid-sixth to the mid-seventh centuries….." Dr. Jason Taliadoros, Department of History, University of Melbourne http://www.mellenpress.com/mellenpress.cfm?bookid=5745&pc=9

What the Catholic Church does teach about Jesus is: "The name 'Jesus' signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved'". Catechism of the Catholic Church (432)

The Pope's Christmas message: "For nothing can be more sublime, nothing greater than the love which thus stoops down, descends, becomes dependent. The glory of the true God becomes visible when the eyes of our hearts are opened before the stable of Bethlehem." http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14679

There are indeed many ancient titles and symbols for Christ now out of circulation. Perhaps spreading the Good News was quite challenging thousands of years ago, before the advent of the internet and other means of communication. If historical context is considered before judgement the conclusions may be more accurate. I haven't been able to find anything linking St. Gregory to the "Sun of justice" term and would appreciate knowing the source.

[Twilly]

Twilli used to be pagan, but converted to Geico.

[bootlen]

Twilli used to be pagan, but converted to Geico.

ROFLMAO!!!

Me personally, I'm with Jesus Christ Mutual Life. Talk about an insurance plan with bang-up retirement bennies! But the best part is the premiums have all been picked up by the Agent.:)








(Mike Warnke will forgive me.)

[chaard]

What the Catholic Church does teach about Jesus is: "The name 'Jesus' signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved'". Catechism of the Catholic Church (432)


There is more than one Jesus in the Bible. One Son of God, but many people named Jesus.

[bootlen]

There is more than one Jesus in the Bible. One Son of God, but many people named Jesus.

I KNOW you have a point...wanna share?

[acmanko]

I KNOW you have a point...wanna share?
I believe ha's trying to say a parent should not name his child Jesus.

[coolwhip]

I believe ha's trying to say a parent should not name his child Jesus.

Why not?...and should you include the Saints as well?? and what about Mary???

[acmanko]

Why not?...and should you include the Saints as well?? and what about Mary???well why should you. The saints and Mary are fair game

[RoBoTeq]

you believe and don't believe a lot of things, making you extremely confused,. such as Constantine had nothing to do with rome's conversion Aurelian did it.
You sure do like to mix things up mancow, you sure you aren't really Satan rather then just a devil's advocate?:rolleyes:

Constantine did the most to convert Rome to Christianity. Aurelian did plant the seeds that allowed Constantine to see the benefit of Christians, but it was still Constantine that made the move to make Rome Christian.

[Twilly]

There is more than one Jesus in the Bible. One Son of God, but many people named Jesus.


Must be the Mexican bible, in fact Twilli knows several Jesus's

[RoBoTeq]

If "Sun of justice" is taught in Catholic churches they aren't doing it well as this is the first time I've heard of it.

However, after some quick research, I found the term in ... Scripture.
Malachi 3: 19-22: "For lo, the day is coming, blazing like an oven, when all the proud and all evildoers will be stubble, And the day that is coming will set them on fire, leaving them neither root nor branch, says the Lord of hosts. But for you who fear my name, there will arise the sun of justice with its healing rays; And you will gambol like calves out of the stall and tread down the wicked; They will become ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day I take action, says the Lord of hosts.

It may be interpretive to consider the term as a description of Jesus, but in context it sure sounds like He's the one being referenced.

I don't know who the pagan sun god is so again...poor teaching (sarcasm).

St. Gregory of Agrigento is also new to me, thank you Robo for the introduction; your supply of information is truly impressive. He will be new to most I assume, “This annotated translation of Leontios’ hagiography of the little-known Saint, Bishop Gregory of Agrigento, adds immeasurably to the history of medieval church history in the mid-sixth to the mid-seventh centuries….." Dr. Jason Taliadoros, Department of History, University of Melbourne http://www.mellenpress.com/mellenpress.cfm?bookid=5745&pc=9

What the Catholic Church does teach about Jesus is: "The name 'Jesus' signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved'". Catechism of the Catholic Church (432)

The Pope's Christmas message: "For nothing can be more sublime, nothing greater than the love which thus stoops down, descends, becomes dependent. The glory of the true God becomes visible when the eyes of our hearts are opened before the stable of Bethlehem." http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14679

There are indeed many ancient titles and symbols for Christ now out of circulation. Perhaps spreading the Good News was quite challenging thousands of years ago, before the advent of the internet and other means of communication. If historical context is considered before judgement the conclusions may be more accurate. I haven't been able to find anything linking St. Gregory to the "Sun of justice" term and would appreciate knowing the source.
It appears that Gregory of Agrigentum is not a very prominant figure in Catholic teachings, but it is taught; http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/902/God_s_Light_our_delight_Gregory_of_Agrigentum_on_E cclesiastes.html

Since Agrigentum was a Greek city and the Christian church there would be considered to be an Eastern Christian Church; http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Agrigentum It is any wonder this got any press at all. Mancow is good at dredging up obscure tidbits just to stir up the proverbial crap pot.

[RoBoTeq]

Twilli used to be pagan, but converted to Geico.
Your still worshipping a lizard like critter:p

[RoBoTeq]

Why not?...and should you include the Saints as well?? and what about Mary???
An interesting point is raised here; who does Biblical text consider to be saints?

Every believer in Jesus Christ is Biblically considered a saint. The RCC made up all of the ridiculous man made rules for making a past mortal more like some sort of demi-god.

As for Mary; the RCC turned one Biblical Mary into a perpetual virgin and another Mary into a whore. Way to go RCC!

[glennac]

................Mancow is good at dredging up obscure tidbits just to stir up the proverbial crap pot.

I do believe that this is a good case of the pot calling the kettle black.:D:) You both put on airs of being ancient scholars of yore.:)

[acmanko]

You sure do like to mix things up mancow, you sure you aren't really Satan rather then just a devil's advocate?:rolleyes:

Constantine did the most to convert Rome to Christianity. Aurelian did plant the seeds that allowed Constantine to see the benefit of Christians, but it was still Constantine that made the move to make Rome Christian.Constantine had little to do with Rome and his legacy lives on in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As mentioned by Homerdude. This is where you are confused. Istanbul(formerly Constantinoble) is in present day Turkey. 2000 years earlier it was part of Greece. which is where the Leader of the Orthodox catholic church is centered.

By the way, were was The First Church of Robo hiding out ?

[chaard]

I KNOW you have a point...wanna share?

What I got from that post is there is no one else on earth with the name Jesus, Yeshua, Yehoshua or Joshua. All of which are translated Lord of Salvation. There were other Jesus' or Yeshuas in the Bible. It was a common name. That's all I'm saying. I was no way implying that there are more than one Son of God. I think I said that already.

Acts 13:6,Luke 3:29,Colossians 4:11 just to name a few.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm

[RoBoTeq]

I do believe that this is a good case of the pot calling the kettle black.:D:) You both put on airs of being ancient scholars of yore.:)
I have no idea what "airs" you are referring to. I am an investigator of factual data and always have been; it's what I've done all of my working life. I make no claims to know anything. I always post links to sources of where I find my information. Why would you make such an accusation?

[chaard]

I believe he's trying to say a parent should not name his child Jesus.

It doesn't bother me that hispanics are named Jesus. Now the basketball player I believe, that is named God, that's just wrong.

[RoBoTeq]

Constantine had little to do with Rome and his legacy lives on in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As mentioned by Homerdude. This is where you are confused. Istanbul(formerly Constantinoble) is in present day Turkey. 2000 years earlier it was part of Greece. which is where the Leader of the Orthodox catholic church is centered.

By the way, were was The First Church of Robo hiding out ?
More attemps at confusing the facts. The Eastern Orthodox Church refers to the Greek Othodoxy that was the main Christian community during the first three hundred years of Christianity. It has nothing to do with the physical locations of the players, and you know that.

The First Church of RoBo is not hiding at all, it is right here, out in the open for all to revel in:D

[RoBoTeq]

It doesn't bother me that hispanics are named Jesus. Now the basketball player I believe, that is named God, that's just wrong.
What about Guaranteed Overnight Delivery?

[glennac]

I have no idea what "airs" you are referring to. I am an investigator of factual data and always have been; it's what I've done all of my working life. I make no claims to know anything. I always post links to sources of where I find my information. Why would you make such an accusation?

Just having a little fun robo, lighten up you take things to seriously. You have to admit digging up ancient history on minuet details is a little heavy there. Just the point of arguing about who made Rome Christian whether it was Constantine or Aurelian I'm sure is just too trivialise for most of us to give a hoot about. come on now give us a break.:)

[acmanko]

Just having a little fun robo, lighten up you take things to seriously. You have to admit digging up ancient history on minuet details is a little heavy there. Just the point of arguing about who made Rome Christian whether it was Constantine or Aurelian I'm sure is just too trivialise for most of us to give a hoot about. come on now give us a break.:)Its trivial only to those who have a weak mind and a half empty beer in their hand:D

[chaard]

Its trivial only to those who have a weak mind and a half empty beer in their hand:D

HEY! I resent that remark.:p

[homersodyssey]

It appears that Gregory of Agrigentum is not a very prominant figure in Catholic teachings, but it is taught; http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/902/God_s_Light_our_delight_Gregory_of_Agrigentum_on_E cclesiastes.html

Since Agrigentum was a Greek city and the Christian church there would be considered to be an Eastern Christian Church; http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Agrigentum It is any wonder this got any press at all. Mancow is good at dredging up obscure tidbits just to stir up the proverbial crap pot.

Robo, it's worth repeating: your supply of information is truly impressive. Thank you for providing a link between St. Gregory of Agrigentum and the term, "Sun of justice". That Crossroads website looks very interesting and I'll take some time to see what they've got. Keep in mind however, it may claim to be a Catholic website, but it isn't the Church (www.vatican.va)

The Office of Readings, or Liturgy of the Hours is a Catholic prayer book, (well, four actually). Although I have one, I'm willing to bet 99% of Catholics don't. The Liturgy of the Hours isn't required reading, nor taught anywhere I've been to. It's a shame because it is a beautiful practice and a way to keep focused on Christ throughout the day.

What I have been able to learn so far is that this St. Gregory was a Bishop in Siccily. In the seventh century he gave a homily referencing the "Sun of justice" term found at Malachi 3:20 "But for you who fear my name, there will arise the sun of justice with its healing rays"

-----------------------------------

Here are the first three paragraphs. The brackets around Gospel quotes are mine.

"In the words of Ecclesiastes: Light itself is delightful, and it is a boon for the eye to have sight of the sun. Devoid of light, the world would be without beauty and life would be lifeless. That was why Moses, who saw God, said in anticipation: And God saw the light and said that it was good. To reflect on the true and eternal light is even more fitting for us. This light is Christ who enlightens every man who comes into the world, the saviour and redeemer of the world. He is the one who became man and sank to the very depths of the human condition. As David said: Sing to God a hymn to his name, make a highway for him who rises to the west. his name is the Lord, rejoice before him!

This light he called delightful and foretold that it would be good to see the sun of glory. In the days of his incarnation, he said, "I am the light of the world. He who follows me will not walk in the darkness but will possess the light of life (John 8:12). On another occasion he said: "This is the judgement, the light has come into the world!" (John 3:19).

Sunlight, then, is a symbol. What we see with our eyes foretells the coming of the Sun of justice. He was a most delightful light for those who were worthy to be instructed by Him personally. He was also a radiance to those who saw Him with their bodily eyes when He lived on earth as a man among men. It was not just any man they saw, for He was true God. He made the blind see, the lame walk, and the deaf hear. He cleansed the lepers, and by a simple command He raised the dead back to life."

------------------------

Jesus Himself described Himself as light, so all St. Gregory was doing was linking that with Malachi, David and Moses predictions of His coming. I hope you aren't going to suggest Jesus was comparing Himself to a pagan god. Once again, context is essential to understanding. St. Gregory was clearly referencing Christ, not Saturn or Pluto or whoever the pagan god of sun is.

[acmanko]

Baal was the sun god at the time in question

[bootlen]

An interesting point is raised here; who does Biblical text consider to be saints?

Every believer in Jesus Christ is Biblically considered a saint. The RCC made up all of the ridiculous man made rules for making a past mortal more like some sort of demi-god.

As for Mary; the RCC turned one Biblical Mary into a perpetual virgin and another Mary into a whore. Way to go RCC!

Also interestingly enough, according to Scripture, believers are not just saints but also priests. I Peter 2:4,5.

[bootlen]

Constantine had little to do with Rome and his legacy lives on in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As mentioned by Homerdude. This is where you are confused. Istanbul(formerly Constantinoble) is in present day Turkey. 2000 years earlier it was part of Greece. which is where the Leader of the Orthodox catholic church is centered.

By the way, were was The First Church of Robo hiding out ?

According to Robo, likely on Pluto.

[bootlen]

What I got from that post is there is no one else on earth with the name Jesus, Yeshua, Yehoshua or Joshua. All of which are translated Lord of Salvation. There were other Jesus' or Yeshuas in the Bible. It was a common name. That's all I'm saying. I was no way implying that there are more than one Son of God. I think I said that already.

Acts 13:6,Luke 3:29,Colossians 4:11 just to name a few.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm

Fair enough but I don't think anyone has argued differently on this thread. (Not that it can't happen at any moment.)

[bootlen]

It doesn't bother me that hispanics are named Jesus. Now the basketball player I believe, that is named God, that's just wrong.

First it's stupid. Then it's wrong. I wasn't aware there was any such person.

[bootlen]

Baal was the sun god at the time in question

Not a very impressive fellow, as shown by Elijah, much to the embarrassment and consternation of Baal's prophets. At the time Baal was needed most, he was apparently off somewhere taking a dump.

[chaard]

First it's stupid. Then it's wrong. I wasn't aware there was any such person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Shammgod

[chaard]

Fair enough but I don't think anyone has argued differently on this thread. (Not that it can't happen at any moment.)

This thread has taken many different turns. And you did ask me explain my post. I was just rebutting what someone else posted.

[RoBoTeq]

Just having a little fun robo, lighten up you take things to seriously. You have to admit digging up ancient history on minuet details is a little heavy there. Just the point of arguing about who made Rome Christian whether it was Constantine or Aurelian I'm sure is just too trivialise for most of us to give a hoot about. come on now give us a break.:)
I've always been the type of person who needs to know minute details of things that interest me. Before the Internet, I would spend hours in libraries and scanning reference books. It's just a little quirk of mine that has resulted in my having a vast data bank of mostly useless trivia in my head:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Also interestingly enough, according to Scripture, believers are not just saints but also priests. I Peter 2:4,5.
I just figured that was because we are all commisioned to tell the Good News. Being evangelical clearly does not require any man made religious training or ordaination.

[RoBoTeq]

According to Robo, likely on Pluto.
My ministry is not on Mickey Mouse's dog. Then again, this may explain the dislexic agnostics questioning; "is there really a dog? and "does dog exist?"

[RoBoTeq]

Not a very impressive fellow, as shown by Elijah, much to the embarrassment and consternation of Baal's prophets. At the time Baal was needed most, he was apparently off somewhere taking a dump.
Or trying to find where Elijah got that water from that came in cans labeled "gas":rolleyes:

[homersodyssey]

This thread has taken many different turns. And you did ask me explain my post. I was just rebutting what someone else posted.

I think the post in question is mine so please allow me to clarify. The catechism isn't saying no one else is allowed to have the name Jesus. The particular passage I quoted is found in the section detailing the Apostle's Creed. The catechism is full of references to Jesus and that was just one of them.

[homersodyssey]

I've always been the type of person who needs to know minute details of things that interest me. Before the Internet, I would spend hours in libraries and scanning reference books. It's just a little quirk of mine that has resulted in my having a vast data bank of mostly useless trivia in my head:rolleyes:


Your zealous pursuit of knowledge is most admirable.