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jmac00
12-04-2008, 07:57 PM
This is an article from Investors Daily Edge:

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If GM could build the EV1 to go up to 150 miles on a full charge 10 years ago, why can the Volt only go 40 miles on a full charge today?

Excellent question. Surely, battery technology has advanced in the past 10 years, right?

Yes, but that’s not the real problem.

The battery pack powering the EV1 was NiMH (nickel metal hydride). The Volt will be powered by lithium ion batteries like the ones in laptops and cell phones.

So, yes, battery technology has advanced in the last 10 years, but I think the problem of reduced battery range goes beyond that. I think the “regression” in battery capability is intentional. Here’s why:

In 1994 General Motors bought a controlling stake in ECD Ovonics. By doing so, GM gained control over the development and manufacturing of Ovonics large NiMH batteries. This move also provided GM with all the patents on the batteries.

As mentioned, these NiMH batteries were used in the final examples of the EV1 in 1999, and reportedly worked flawlessly.

Fast forward a couple of years to 2001, and a relatively unpublicized transaction took place. GM sold its share of ECD Ovonics (and the patents) to…

Texaco.

Yep, the oil company.

Six days later, Chevron completed its’ purchase of Texaco. So now the battery technology that allowed the EV1 to run for 150 miles without a single drop of gasoline is in the hands of one of the largest oil companies in the world.

In 2003, Texaco Ovonics Battery Systems was renamed Cobasys, a 50/50 joint venture between Chevron and ECD Ovonics. Independently, Chevron owns a 20% stake in ECD Ovonics.

By now, you are probably guessing that an oil company with the patents to a very effective battery technology would never let that technology see the light of day. It could very well put them out of business.

To state that the technology was buried is not entirely true. But what Cobasys did is extensively limit the ability for any one to get their hands on NiMH batteries. And anyone found utilizing the NiMH battery technology that Cobasys had the patents on were sued and sued often, such as Panasonic. In essence, Cobasys controlled the market for NiMH batteries, and they were doing their best to make sure none of the batteries made it into any electronic vehicle.

And that brings us nearly full-circle to the current crop of electronic vehicles, including the Volt. The Volt, as mentioned, will run on costlier lithium ion batteries, which will drive up the cost of the Volt. GM could have used the cheaper and proven NiMH batteries, but alas, they sold the patents to Cobasys (Chevron). Do you think Chevron would allow the Volt to be produced with NiMH batteries, eliminating the need for a gasoline engine to supply power after 40 miles? Not a chance.

Now, to be fair, Cobasys is allowing their NiMH batteries to be used in the Chevy Malibu hybrid, the Saturn Aura Hybrid, and the Saturn Vue Hybrid. But all of those vehicles are hybrids, so they still rely on gasoline. Not one vehicle is utilizing Cobasys batteries as the sole source of power.

But it gets better. The company chosen to supply the Lithium Ion batteries for the Volt is called A123Systems. Guess who they are partnered with? Cobasys.

Great.

So, to bring this all together, the battery technology from 10 years ago that powered a car 150 miles, is now controlled by an oil company, and any new hybrid vehicle in production now relies on batteries from an oil company.

Is it any wonder that we are 10 years down the road from the EV1, but have yet to see a true mass market electric vehicle? Not when the technology is owned by an oil company. I guess we can only sit and wait until 2014 when the patents expire.

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anyone else think the country is being manipulated? I'm not a real big conspiracy theorist but something about the big 3 smells fishy, and not in a good way

Slatts
12-05-2008, 06:35 AM
jmac00, you don't think the move to lithium from NiMH would have anything to do with NiMHs problems with memory effects?

k-fridge
12-05-2008, 07:18 AM
jmac00, you don't think the move to lithium from NiMH would have anything to do with NiMHs problems with memory effects?
It's NiCad's that have the memory problems.

Slatts
12-05-2008, 07:37 AM
I'm having a shocker tonight. Bear with me. Normal service will resume shortly:o

forged alloy
12-05-2008, 01:28 PM
The car didn't sell because there was no market and it cost more to produce then they could sell it for.

I think that today even with all this "Green" fuss that the market for Hybrids is around 3% in the US.

I don't buy the conspiracy theory. With all the media and politicians behind the green coalition these days, if all this was true there would be marches on Washington.

jrbenny
12-05-2008, 01:42 PM
http://www.cobasys.com/company/partners.shtml

It's not a theory. They publicize the 'alliance'.

WhoIsThat?
12-05-2008, 01:53 PM
Some people think that if we had pursued battery technology for the last century instead of using gasoline, we'd have capable batteries today.

Flywheels in a vacuum chamber are much better for energy storage, but the car companies are afraid this spinning, heavy, wheel would get loose in a crash.

forged alloy
12-05-2008, 02:09 PM
Sorry guys but it sounds like the evil oil companies killing the H20 car.

JRINJAX
12-05-2008, 04:32 PM
It's NiCad's that have the memory problems.The metal hydrides also have memory problems/short life. The polymer lithiums are much better performers. We switched to lithiums on our belt radios after the hydrides failed in just over a year.

JRINJAX
12-05-2008, 04:36 PM
Flywheels in a vacuum chamber are much better for energy storage, but the car companies are afraid this spinning, heavy, wheel would get loose in a crash.
The gyroscopic precession of the flywheel would make turning the vehicle like bull wrestling.

jpsmith1cm
12-05-2008, 04:56 PM
Sorry guys but it sounds like the evil oil companies killing the H20 car.
I actually had a guy tell me that story in all sincerity. As always, it was someone that someone he knew knew or something like that.

Battery cars, compressed air cars, these will never really work in a free market. The range is too limited and will remain so. The recharge time is too long.

If the market would support electric cars, we'd have them.
Hybrids are as close as we will get, and those are more of a status symbol for those who need to feel better about themselves.

Slatts
12-05-2008, 07:10 PM
The market will support the bloke with the biggest advertising budget.
As always.

forged alloy
12-08-2008, 07:50 AM
I actually had a guy tell me that story in all sincerity. As always, it was someone that someone he knew knew or something like that.

Battery cars, compressed air cars, these will never really work in a free market. The range is too limited and will remain so. The recharge time is too long.

If the market would support electric cars, we'd have them.
Hybrids are as close as we will get, and those are more of a status symbol for those who need to feel better about themselves.

Another thing rarely mentioned is where exactly is all this electricity to recharge these batteries going to come from? Our grid seems a bit borderline as it is.

JRINJAX
12-08-2008, 07:52 AM
Another thing rarely mentioned is where exactly is all this electricity to recharge these batteries going to come from? Our grid seems a bit borderline as it is.It has been surmised that there would have to be 200 new power plants built if the electric car became even semi-popular.

acmanko
12-08-2008, 08:57 AM
Ireally don't undestand the whole hybrid as new concept. diesle electric has been around since WW1, of course the batteries were hugh , but then fast forward to diesle electric locamotives, where a generator powered by diesel powers electric motors that move a loaded train with great effciency.
soon a filament incandesent lightbuld will be the next best thing.

jpsmith1cm
12-08-2008, 09:52 AM
Ireally don't undestand the whole hybrid as new concept. diesle electric has been around since WW1, of course the batteries were hugh , but then fast forward to diesle electric locamotives, where a generator powered by diesel powers electric motors that move a loaded train with great effciency.
soon a filament incandesent lightbuld will be the next best thing.

They aren't anything new. Just new to the suckers who buy them.

Remember PT Barnum?

The only things that really separate modern hybrids from those you mentioned are styling, efficiency and MARKETING!


If you want to see the shade of green that defines the environmental movement, pull out a dollar bill. There's your GREEN!

As a society, we are constantly bombarded with ways we are supposed to be green and help the planet.

There really is no market for these hybrid cars or electric cars except as novelties.

What market exists is artificially generated by the left who manipulates us using junk science and slick politics.

Sadly, many fall for it, hook line and sucker, I mean sinker. :D