Supermarket PM work

[intellitech]

Gentlemen,

Since I have been inquiring about the supermarket refrigeration industry, I figured I'd throw one more question out to you all:

I have often read that most grocery chains (or independents for that matter) are under service agreement with the service contractor. Do you market techs spend much time doing PM's on your stores or does that vary depending on the customer? Does PM work fill in the slow times for you?

As usual, I welcome all feedback.

[crackertech]

Gentlemen,

Since I have been inquiring about the supermarket refrigeration industry, I figured I'd throw one more question out to you all:

I have often read that most grocery chains (or independents for that matter) are under service agreement with the service contractor. Do you market techs spend much time doing PM's on your stores or does that vary depending on the customer? Does PM work fill in the slow times for you?

As usual, I welcome all feedback.

1-true.
2-yes we do.
3-more like the time of year summer:eek:.
4-Slow times??In market refrigeration.Hahahahahahaha:D:p

[jpsmith1cm]

1-true.
2-yes we do.
3-more like the time of year summer:eek:.
4-Slow times??In market refrigeration.Hahahahahahaha:D:p

Ditto!

PM work will keep you busy when there are no calls.

I guess I need to move because we are a leeeetle bit slow right now. I'm only getting 45 hours or so each week. :D

[Dowadudda]

I have to ask. What is your fascination with supermarkets?

[crackertech]

I have to ask. What is your fascination with supermarkets?

:eek::eek::D LOL.

[crackertech]

I have to ask. What is your fascination with supermarkets?

:eek::eek::D LOL.He must be a little sick high fever I guess.

[intellitech]

:D
I have to ask. What is your fascination with supermarkets?

To be honest.....I have always been fascinated by how things work. I (most people would think this is weird) would actually enjoy a 12 hour service call that stretches the human mind as far as possible.....I guess I just like to think.

Most refer guys I have seen are so fussy about the simplest thing....I mean get out of the field if cleaning an ice machine makes you miserable!

But to really answer you question Dowadudda, I find the study of supermarket refrigeration to be far more interesting than changing a current relay on a pizza prep table if you know what I mean.

Plus I am a business management student online and I am in a constant state of learning in general.

The bottom line is this, if I get to work for a contractor that does supermarket refrigeration, then I just want to be prepared (if that is possible).

[Dowadudda]

you won't have much time for school. And 5 years go by like it was just yesterday. Money is great, till you ache and ache all over your body. Then you wished you had stayed in school.

One has to be half crazy about life to do this. It will make a man out of ya.

[emcoasthvacr]

I've employed engineers & technicians since 1987.

The problem is that of the hundreds of technicians i've worked with or employed in the HVACR industry, only a few I would call true technicians.

You need a technician that can repair during PM calls and, as a licensed professional engineer & HVACR contractor, less than 5% can fill those credentials.

Moreover, I'm shocked how many technicians struggle between AC & Refrigeration -- you're not a technician unless you can repair AC & Refrigeration -- I've fired dozens, and kept but a couple "true technicians."

[intellitech]

I've employed engineers & technicians since 1987.

The problem is that of the hundreds of technicians i've worked with or employed in the HVACR industry, only a few I would call true technicians.

You need a technician that can repair during PM calls and, as a licensed professional engineer & HVACR contractor, less than 5% can fill those credentials.

Moreover, I'm shocked how many technicians struggle between AC & Refrigeration -- you're not a technician unless you can repair AC & Refrigeration -- I've fired dozens, and kept but a couple "true technicians."

Explain what it means to be a "true technician" by the standards you measure one against....do you have a written set of standards or just your opinion? I am not being sarcastic, just curious.

[jpsmith1cm]

:D

To be honest.....I have always been fascinated by how things work. I (most people would think this is weird) would actually enjoy a 12 hour service call that stretches the human mind as far as possible.....I guess I just like to think.

Most refer guys I have seen are so fussy about the simplest thing....I mean get out of the field if cleaning an ice machine makes you miserable!

But to really answer you question Dowadudda, I find the study of supermarket refrigeration to be far more interesting than changing a current relay on a pizza prep table if you know what I mean.

Plus I am a business management student online and I am in a constant state of learning in general.

The bottom line is this, if I get to work for a contractor that does supermarket refrigeration, then I just want to be prepared (if that is possible).


Be careful what you wish for, dude, you just might get it one day.

My worst call was a 30 hour ball buster that was 2 hours from home.

Sometimes market work is replacing current relays in prep tables.

Sometimes its hauling 200 lbs of tools onto the roof to fix a split system.

Its ruined dates with your wife and broken plans with your kids.

[intellitech]

Be careful what you wish for, dude, you just might get it one day.

My worst call was a 30 hour ball buster that was 2 hours from home.

Sometimes market work is replacing current relays in prep tables.

Sometimes its hauling 200 lbs of tools onto the roof to fix a split system.

Its ruined dates with your wife and broken plans with your kids.

I hear ya......I am single but have had some late calls that ruined my plans also. Sometimes my determination exceeds reality.....refrigeration is certainly not all fun and games and I don't want to make is sound as such. Life after all is what we make of it as you probably agree.

[y7turbo]

I've employed engineers & technicians since 1987.

The problem is that of the hundreds of technicians i've worked with or employed in the HVACR industry, only a few I would call true technicians.

You need a technician that can repair during PM calls and, as a licensed professional engineer & HVACR contractor, less than 5% can fill those credentials.

Moreover, I'm shocked how many technicians struggle between AC & Refrigeration -- you're not a technician unless you can repair AC & Refrigeration -- I've fired dozens, and kept but a couple "true technicians."

blah blah blah blah.

[moe663]

I understand your couriosty about market refrigeration. You don't see supermarket refrigeratoin guys lying in the middle of the frozen food section with his tools spreaded across the floor in your local grocery store. In fact you don't see them at all.
The machine room where the rack systems are(where most of the work is done) are well hidden in the store. If you're not a market tech or store personnel the only way you will ever see a rack system even for a moment is if you where called out on an air conditioning job & the rack system was in a common area.
You see a/c guys all the time on roofs or at condensers working, but supermarket & amonia refrigeration work you don't see unless you work for those types of contractors.
Hell there's thousands of A/C schools all over the country in every major city, but there's no commercial or heavy commercial refrigeration schools that last for any significate period- 6 months or even a semester(at least that I'm aware of). Most market guys I come in contact with say they learned on the job.
I think the interest is one having passion for the industry wanting to master the craft working on large equipment as well as small but lacking the exposure.

[jpsmith1cm]

I've employed engineers & technicians since 1987.

The problem is that of the hundreds of technicians i've worked with or employed in the HVACR industry, only a few I would call true technicians.

You need a technician that can repair during PM calls and, as a licensed professional engineer & HVACR contractor, less than 5% can fill those credentials.

Moreover, I'm shocked how many technicians struggle between AC & Refrigeration -- you're not a technician unless you can repair AC & Refrigeration -- I've fired dozens, and kept but a couple "true technicians."

I think what this is driving at are two key points, technical correctness and versatility

Being technically correct on a call means checking and testing everything and finding the problem, not just flinging parts at the unit in hopes that the problem goes away. Also, after the repair, verify that it functions correctly, don't just run.

Versatilty is easier to understand. As I mentioned, one day you might be working on a 1/2 ton self contained unit and the next working on a 100 ton rack unit. We do most of the AC work for our accounts, so that is another aspect to versatility.

Hard lessons to learn, especially for a young guy. I know, I started in markets at 19.

I have never understood how a guy can do AC but not refrigeration. They are the same system!! Pressures are a bit different, but that doesn't change how it works.

Superheat, subcooling and pressures. Where did it get complicated??

[moe663]

I think what this is driving at are two key points, technical correctness and versatility

Being technically correct on a call means checking and testing everything and finding the problem, not just flinging parts at the unit in hopes that the problem goes away. Also, after the repair, verify that it functions correctly, don't just run.

Versatilty is easier to understand. As I mentioned, one day you might be working on a 1/2 ton self contained unit and the next working on a 100 ton rack unit. We do most of the AC work for our accounts, so that is another aspect to versatility.

Hard lessons to learn, especially for a young guy. I know, I started in markets at 19.

I have never understood how a guy can do AC but not refrigeration. They are the same system!! Pressures are a bit different, but that doesn't change how it works.

Superheat, subcooling and pressures. Where did it get complicated??

You are absolutely right: superheat, subcooling, TD, airflow, heatloss, wetbulb, removing heat from a space or product, btus, proper piping practice, electrical schematics, blue prints, etc... its all the same. Good electrical & mechanical fundamentals can take you a long way even outside the scope of our trade. After all to be a HVAC&R Technician you are a jack of all trades: an electrician, a plumber, and HVAC & Refrigeration Tech.

After that all you need is exposure & sequence of operation. If you know what the equipment is suppose to do than you can bring it back to life.

[Dowadudda]

who is this friggen guy. "I have fired Dozens" . You know something, we could care friggen less.

[sumdumguy]

I've employed engineers & technicians since 1987.

The problem is that of the hundreds of technicians i've worked with or employed in the HVACR industry, only a few I would call true technicians.

You need a technician that can repair during PM calls and, as a licensed professional engineer & HVACR contractor, less than 5% can fill those credentials.

Moreover, I'm shocked how many technicians struggle between AC & Refrigeration -- you're not a technician unless you can repair AC & Refrigeration -- I've fired dozens, and kept but a couple "true technicians."

I've known alot of guys that would laugh at that just from thinking of what that would look like. If you got an inclination of customers that dont pay i'm sure that # would go up:eek: please read below:D

[sumdumguy]

enough said!

[freezingair]

I've employed engineers & technicians since 1987.

The problem is that of the hundreds of technicians i've worked with or employed in the HVACR industry, only a few I would call true technicians.

You need a technician that can repair during PM calls and, as a licensed professional engineer & HVACR contractor, less than 5% can fill those credentials.

Moreover, I'm shocked how many technicians struggle between AC & Refrigeration -- you're not a technician unless you can repair AC & Refrigeration -- I've fired dozens, and kept but a couple "true technicians."
That is So true I have fired guys left and right for there lack of experience and part changers

[intellitech]

That is So true I have fired guys left and right for there lack of experience and part changers

What's the point in simply firing a guy and bragging about it? Does anyone believe in providing training to better your tech's abilities instead of just upright declaring him as incompetent and cutting him loose?

If any one reads the NEWS magazine they have read about the best contractors to work for contest every year. What do you see in common at these companies? That's right, ongoing training....not "yea I fire a guy if he changed a part that did not need replaced once in his life". Real management (that is people with a backbone and know how to lead their workers rather than push them) know how to grow their techs and develop competent problem solving workers. Will it work for all? No, but perhaps the guy you just let go for making the same mistakes you (the almighty boss) make but do not admit to, that guy could with the proper training become a lead tech in just a matter of time.

There is not so much a lack of qualified trained service techs as there is a serious lack of contractors who are worth working for....the kind that do what the best contractors to work for do.

[freezingair]

What's the point in simply firing a guy and bragging about it? Does anyone believe in providing training to better your tech's abilities instead of just upright declaring him as incompetent and cutting him loose?

If any one reads the NEWS magazine they have read about the best contractors to work for contest every year. What do you see in common at these companies? That's right, ongoing training....not "yea I fire a guy if he changed a part that did not need replaced once in his life". Real management (that is people with a backbone and know how to lead their workers rather than push them) know how to grow their techs and develop competent problem solving workers. Will it work for all? No, but perhaps the guy you just let go for making the same mistakes you (the almighty boss) make but do not admit to, that guy could with the proper training become a lead tech in just a matter of time.

There is not so much a lack of qualified trained service techs as there is a serious lack of contractors who are worth working for....the kind that do what the best contractors to work for do.

The type of work that I do, Mistakes is not an opption, I build costom units Tank god the units that I build me my dad and wife did not even have 1 service call in 6 Years and we are talking the smallest 15HP up to 40HP
Once I have hierd a guy that wanted to swich from A/C To refrigeration that work in a/c for 8 Years and I told him to do certain things and the answer was I know how to my job and it costed me 12 cans of 404A all for kowing to much to listen to me

[crackertech]

The type of work that I do, Mistakes is not an opption, I build costom units Tank god the units that I build me my dad and wife did not even have 1 service call in 6 Years and we are talking the smallest 15HP up to 40HP
Once I have hierd a guy that wanted to swich from A/C To refrigeration that work in a/c for 8 Years and I told him to do certain things and the answer was I know how to my job and it costed me 12 cans of 404A all for kowing to much to listen to me

WOW not one service call in 6 years? That's hard to believe.

[intellitech]

The type of work that I do, Mistakes is not an opption, I build costom units Tank god the units that I build me my dad and wife did not even have 1 service call in 6 Years and we are talking the smallest 15HP up to 40HP
Once I have hierd a guy that wanted to swich from A/C To refrigeration that work in a/c for 8 Years and I told him to do certain things and the answer was I know how to my job and it costed me 12 cans of 404A all for kowing to much to listen to me

First of all, did you count how many spelling and grammar errors you just made in your post? And no service calls in 6 years? Hmmmmm.

[freezingair]

First of all, did you count how many spelling and grammar errors you just made in your post? And no service calls in 6 years? Hmmmmm.

I know my typing is not good that is why I have a office woman to do all this

[intellitech]

I know my typing is not good that is why I have a office woman to do all this

As a man I must apologize.....it was not my intention to criticize your spelling, etc. I just get a bit irritated at how so many contractors are so quick to blame their techs for everything and my response to your post was sarcastic and not necessary.

[freezingair]

my customers love how I work, they feel special about there systems that we build,

they are all discus compressors and have over sized condensers wit VFD 3PH blower motors, evaps are oversized and 3 PH motors. digital pressure controls. ball valves on receiver. replaceable 3 core filter dryers for liquid and suction, hard copper all the way, 1' tick insulation, over sized piston type liquid line solenoid valves. 200 amp finger proof contactors for compressors. all control wiring are 110V for safety reasons.

suction accumulators on low temp. suction line heat exchanger. 3 PH monitors.

[Dowadudda]

As a man I must apologize.....it was not my intention to criticize your spelling, etc. I just get a bit irritated at how so many contractors are so quick to blame their techs for everything and my response to your post was sarcastic and not necessary.

This guy is nothing special.

Were all in the trade, all striving to better than the day before. I don't believe him. I have seen so many people, who proclaim to be god in this trade and only to see them make a mistake. Cockiness and arrogance will kick you in the shins when you least expect it.

[Dowadudda]

my customers love how I work, they feel special about there systems that we build,

they are all discus compressors and have over sized condensers wit VFD 3PH blower motors, evaps are oversized and 3 PH motors. digital pressure controls. ball valves on receiver. replaceable 3 core filter dryers for liquid and suction, hard copper all the way, 1' tick insulation, over sized piston type liquid line solenoid valves. 200 amp finger proof contactors for compressors. all control wiring are 110V for safety reasons.

suction accumulators on low temp. suction line heat exchanger. 3 PH monitors.

we have been doing this for years. Actually any modern supermarket has this or better. Inuslation thickness, the thicker the better, is a thing of diminishing returns. Not everything has to be 1 inch to be the most effective.

[jpsmith1cm]

my customers love how I work, they feel special about there systems that we build,

they are all discus compressors and have over sized condensers wit VFD 3PH blower motors, evaps are oversized and 3 PH motors. digital pressure controls. ball valves on receiver. replaceable 3 core filter dryers for liquid and suction, hard copper all the way, 1' tick insulation, over sized piston type liquid line solenoid valves. 200 amp finger proof contactors for compressors. all control wiring are 110V for safety reasons.

suction accumulators on low temp. suction line heat exchanger. 3 PH monitors.

Just another day at the office.

Distributed loop systems, secondary coolant systems, electronic eprs and txvs, ethernet connected controllers, touch screen alarm panels with floorplan maps.

We're getting a CO2 refrigerant store in a year or so.

Dude, if you are selling that as "cutting edge" then you could sell snow to an eskimo.